Big 4 - Starting dates and Salarys

EDudder

OK, I'm hoping I'm not the only one in this situation.

Taken from my contract..."starting salary will be communicated to you before 30 June".

We'll today was the 30th of June. Has anyone heard anything?

To be honest, it's the start date I'm more eager to hear about. Trying to make some plans for late summer and it'd be nice to know what period of time I can play with.

(Obviously I plan on contacting the firm tomorrow, but just wondering if others have heard)

MrMatisse

About 20k id say and OMG will you earn it!

smcgiff

Really-Stressed wrote: »

... and OMG will you earn it!

Ah jeeze, let him enjoy the summer in ignorant bliss

EDudder

I'm aware of the bad hours etc. And I'd have a guess it'll be around 20K for Dublin offices.

Just wondering if anyone's heard anything more definite saying as we should have by now.

ferike1

22.5

30th August

Celtise

Last year the start date was 1st Sept as far as I remember. And round 20ish is the expected I'd say.

Cookie_Monster

22k? WTF

I still fail to understand why anyone wants to work for them. most of my class wanted big 4 jobs on finishing but I could see no benefits and horrid conditions and ****e pay and no better exam support than the public/private companies I looked at.

That said at least now you have the EU working time directive to throw at them.

What are they benefits people see working for them? Or is it a case of a job is a job regardless?

R0N BURGUNDY

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

22k? WTF...
What are they benefits people see working for them? Or is it a case of a job is a job regardless?

u get to kiss each others asses and get on like ur of a higher pedigree than people working for smaller firms

Odats

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

22k? WTF
What are they benefits people see working for them? Or is it a case of a job is a job regardless?

Well at the moment having the Big4 on your CV and audit definitely is a huge advantage as coming from small practice and about to be qualified Friday week touch wood, all well the vast majority of the newly qualified positions on the market specify Big 4 trained so in essence it is all about perception I'm afraid.

Cookie_Monster

Odats wrote: »

Well at the moment having the Big4 on your CV and audit definitely is a huge advantage as coming from small practice and about to be qualified Friday week touch wood, all well the vast majority of the newly qualified positions on the market specify Big 4 trained so in essence it is all about perception I'm afraid.

Given the numerous account scandal and inappropriate behaviour that all 4 are getting up to in Ireland alone would this not be a liability to have on your CV though?

Odats

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Given the numerous account scandal and inappropriate behaviour that all 4 are getting up to in Ireland alone would this not be a liability to have on your CV though?

It's just the commercial reality with regardless of the point you made above which I agree with you if you or myself went for a job which I have done that I was more than qualified to do was told that it was only looking for Big4 candidate just the perception.

ferike1

Well with positions like this
http://www.exec-appointments.com/Jobs/Ad.aspx?adID=161586
and many others looking for qualified accountants hopefully working at the big four will eventually be worth it.

EDudder

30th August sounds very early. Like, its supposed to be 'Autumn'.

That a Dublin office?

I phoned today and was given a much later date. Almost 2 months after that actually. Probably depends on office and department though.

ferike1

I think its just induction first, not sure of actual start date.

luapenak

Really-Stressed wrote: »

About 20k id say and OMG will you earn it!

You should be earning up to around 22.5k if salaries are the same as last year.
You most likely will really work for it, but it really depends what department your in. I do know some people in Big 4 who work 9-5.30 and not a second later, and they don't do that much while they are there either.

Celtise

Only work your set hours as long as you can. Really at the start they won't expect you to do anymore and later on you'll be working overtime enough!

breezy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Given the numerous account scandal and inappropriate behaviour that all 4 are getting up to in Ireland alone would this not be a liability to have on your CV though?

Not necessarily, I'd say it will be great for anyone below management level at least..at the end of the day you can't tar everyone in a company with the same brush and I'd imagine people would at least get an interview. At the end of the day if you work in audit you are guaranteed to work long hours (especially where I work, including 1st years), and if that wasn't bad enough you have to pass exams on top of that; you'll need some impressive organisation skills and need to be able to cope with all the demands placed on your head. Where I work 1st years have been advanced along quickly due to staff shortages...I'd say by the time my contract is up I'll be able to take on anything, definitely no breaks whatsoever.

the long lad

starting on 21k in early October. Its gonna be a real struggle financially, but i'm looking forward to earning something at least.

as for the big 4 thing, with so few small/medium firms recruiting, its kind of the only option. also, you're going in working with a heap of people your own age so the social life is good. i'm working in tax, so the hours wont be quite as severe. getting into the big 4 is not easy (imo the real reason ppl talk the big 4 down), and future employers will know this... regardless of the experience you gain, by getting into the big 4 it seems as though you've got something going for you.

Pandoras Twist

the long lad wrote: »

starting on 21k in early October. Its gonna be a real struggle financially, but i'm looking forward to earning something at least.

as for the big 4 thing, with so few small/medium firms recruiting, its kind of the only option. also, you're going in working with a heap of people your own age so the social life is good. i'm working in tax, so the hours wont be quite as severe. getting into the big 4 is not easy (imo the real reason ppl talk the big 4 down), and future employers will know this... regardless of the experience you gain, by getting into the big 4 it seems as though you've got something going for you.

How did you choose between tax and audit?

Cantoris

Has everyone gone soft all of a sudden. There's nothing wrong with earning €20k while you are an apprentice. You get out of it what you put in, just like studying for your leaving cert or degree.

Your card is marked by management in year 1. If you show aptitude and ability you should get on the best jobs (and if you don't I'd push them to get you on them) which will help your CV no end when you come out the other side. Laze and you will feel every day of your contract as you get put on mind numbingly boring job after job as management couldn't give a toss about you and can't wait for you to leave. I've been the apprentice and the manager.

rik1234

just out of curiosity,does anyone know of a mature student who got a job with the big 4.

im going back to do accounting/finance and ill be 33 or 34 with masters.anyone ever heard of someone my age getting in..?

Hackysack

rik1234 wrote: »

just out of curiosity,does anyone know of a mature student who got a job with the big 4.

im going back to do accounting/finance and ill be 33 or 34 with masters.anyone ever heard of someone my age getting in..?

The oldest person I know in a training contract is in their early thirties as well so it's well doable.

Celtise

Yeah hackysack! When I was working in one of the big 4 there was a 1st year that was in their early 30's.

cunning stunts

im 43 and doing faes this year

rik1234

thanks for the replys.. pretty daunting heading back to uni and starting all over,nice to know this option is do-able ..:)

lou9

Starting 30th August on 25k. Start date depends on department you are in. One of my friends going to the same firm is not starting til mid December

EDudder

What department/ location you in?

I'm audit and was told start november. Seems a wee tiny bit late though because i thought classes started in october. Meh, i'm not complaining.

lou9

what classes? I'm in audit but won't be told dept til I start

The_Hustler

lou9 wrote: »

Starting 30th August on 25k. Start date depends on department you are in. One of my friends going to the same firm is not starting til mid December

I'm most of the way through second year in a Dublin Big 4 and on less than that

Hackysack

The_Hustler wrote: »

I'm most of the way through second year in a Dublin Big 4 and on less than that

Ditto!!! :eek:

LightningBolt

Tax trainees generally start before audit and advisory folk and will be on up to 2k more starting off.

Audit trainees in our place won't be until Mid October at earliest judging by in house training schedules.

edit: KPMG are looking to take on FS trainees in August/September I believe.

The_Hustler

I am in tax if your point about salary was regarding me being on less (probably wasn't but these audit starting salaries are higher than me in tax in second year).

Also I started in the last week of October

I don't think you can say generally, it very much depends on the firm

EDudder

I never would have guessed that trainees in tax would start on more. Would have expected it to be the other way about really.

Though, in fairness i based this on my own completely uninformed assumptions.

How do they decide what dept. audit people are put in? It must be pretty randomly im guessing if they decide it before you start. Is this the dept your in for a long time?

As for the salarys......I reckon its a completely grand amount of money for a graduate in their early 20's to be on.

ferike1

Considering my friend is starting on £39k its not really haha

testicle

EDudder wrote: »

30th August sounds very early. Like, its supposed to be 'Autumn'.

Yes. <snip>

EDudder

<snip>

smcgiff

The accountancy forum is one of the most decorous on boards. Lets keep it that way.

Kingkong

smcgiff wrote: »

The accountancy forum is one of the most decorous on boards. Lets keep it that way.

Decorous! OMG your such an accountant:pac::pac::pac:

Slasher

Cantoris wrote: »

Has everyone gone soft all of a sudden. There's nothing wrong with earning €20k while you are an apprentice. You get out of it what you put in, just like studying for your leaving cert or degree.

Your card is marked by management in year 1. If you show aptitude and ability you should get on the best jobs (and if you don't I'd push them to get you on them) which will help your CV no end when you come out the other side. Laze and you will feel every day of your contract as you get put on mind numbingly boring job after job as management couldn't give a toss about you and can't wait for you to leave. I've been the apprentice and the manager.

Very well put. I agree completely. In fact, your card is probably marked in your first few weeks. Even on the induction course, you will be watched closely, so mind your behaviour, attendance, time-keeping, accuracy, etc. Some new employees think they're still in college and behave that way - it doesn't work.

EDudder

What kind of thing does the induction course include?

Just found out I have a week in Dublin for mine.

Celtise

Slasher wrote: »

Very well put. I agree completely. In fact, your card is probably marked in your first few weeks. Even on the induction course, you will be watched closely, so mind your behaviour, attendance, time-keeping, accuracy, etc. Some new employees think they're still in college and behave that way - it doesn't work.

I agree with this also. Though I was only with the firm for six months, the willingness and interest showed in the first few weeks really determines what clients/work you are given. I tried pretty hard to learn everything fast to show willingness and it paid off as I was given more responsibility and less micro management plus more training. Also I was training in two graduates the last few weeks I was there and was having to informally give reports on them and their progress/attitude.

EDudder wrote: »

What kind of thing does the induction course include?

Just found out I have a week in Dublin for mine.

Tour, ethics/independence tests/training, software training, HR talks, paperwork, probably a talk from a partner, and maybe team building or presentation training depending on your company/department.

DolphinTales

Celtise wrote: »

Tour, ethics/independence tests/training, software training, HR talks, paperwork, probably a talk from a partner, and maybe team building or presentation training depending on your company/department.

Mostly a waste of time but good craic.

cunning stunts

Cantoris wrote: »

Has everyone gone soft all of a sudden. There's nothing wrong with earning €20k while you are an apprentice. You get out of it what you put in, just like studying for your leaving cert or degree.

Your card is marked by management in year 1. If you show aptitude and ability you should get on the best jobs (and if you don't I'd push them to get you on them) which will help your CV no end when you come out the other side. Laze and you will feel every day of your contract as you get put on mind numbingly boring job after job as management couldn't give a toss about you and can't wait for you to leave. I've been the apprentice and the manager.

Judging by the fact you decided to become a manager you have obviously been brainwashed by the big4, if you were so concerned about your CV why in the name of god did you stay on and sacrifice your entire 20s.

For a trainee on 20k , consider how much money your left with after paying taxes and Dublin rents, bills etc. It works out as about 150approx per week. Without being "soft" it isnt easy especially when your working for free until all hours every night and getting no thanks from pr**ks of managers.

Also consider the exams we have to do are considerably harder and you didnt have to worry about getting fired either. How "soft" is that

Fishyfreak

Big 4 this, Big 4 that. Can people not see that they are slave drivers!!!

€20k a year is a joke.

If I was a recruiter and saw one of the "Big 4" on your cv i'd probably dismiss you immediately purely based on my perception of the snobbery and elitism that goes with it.

Cyrus

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Big 4 this, Big 4 that. Can people not see that they are slave drivers!!!

€20k a year is a joke.

If I was a recruiter and saw one of the "Big 4" on your cv i'd probably dismiss you immediately purely based on my perception of the snobbery and elitism that goes with it.

you do of course realise that its a starting salary and goes up with exam success? you earn it but tbh that doesnt do most people any harm

Cyrus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

22k? WTF

I still fail to understand why anyone wants to work for them. most of my class wanted big 4 jobs on finishing but I could see no benefits and horrid conditions and ****e pay and no better exam support than the public/private companies I looked at.

That said at least now you have the EU working time directive to throw at them.

What are they benefits people see working for them? Or is it a case of a job is a job regardless?

what private co's offer better exam support? ive never heard of a private company giving 3 months off to do finals for example?

my wife did acca in industry and it was a much tougher slog than doing aca through a big 4

cunning stunts

Cyrus wrote: »

you do of course realise that its a starting salary and goes up with exam success? you earn it but tbh that doesnt do most people any harm

Theres been a payfreeze since spring 09 which was accompanied by a lovely 5% paycut + no signing of it been lifted yet....also how bloody patronising are you telling people that hard work does nobody any harm-not the point here!!

Cyrus

So you don't get a payrise now if you pass your finals?

I'm not being patronising you are trying to make it out to be an awful lot worse than it is, it's an accountancy training contract not 3 years of hard labour!

DolphinTales

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Big 4 this, Big 4 that. Can people not see that they are slave drivers!!!

€20k a year is a joke.

If I was a recruiter and saw one of the "Big 4" on your cv i'd probably dismiss you immediately purely based on my perception of the snobbery and elitism that goes with it.

I'm starting to think this forum is a whingefest. There is a sense of entitlement in this country that is scary. It's not just here it seems to be in every walk of life. Time to get real!

In anycase.....20k per annum is not a joke for someone(usually) just out of college and in normal circumstances it increases significantly year on year depending on exam success which is fair. Granted the last couple of years were hardly normal economically but still you gotta roll with the punches.

Secondly its a 3/3.5 year contract and even if it can be tough going people have to see the bigger picture. Accountancy is one of the most transferable skills to have, and allows you to work pretty much anywhere in the world in any industry. And anyone who does stay on and gets promoted does get a significant wedge per annum. And as I say it's only 3 or 3.5 years it's not that long in the greater scheme of things.

Thirdly the study leave is great, compared to people doing ACCA through industry there is no comparision.

Fourthly if anyone isn't happy getting 22k or 20k or 25k per annum them you can go to a smaller firm and get far less and still have to do the work, or just do something else, or sadly do nothing at all. I don't it's any great secret the way the accountancy industry works so it shouldn't be any great surprise if you're working long hours on crap money for a while. Some of the big 4 have given reasonable increases this year but I don't know the craic for all of them. People with 2.5 years experience are getting 33k plus which is fairly resaonable I think. Unlikely to get it in many industries at the moment.

There's no doubt it can be tough but I worked for a plc before stating my training contract and life wasn't exactly a bed of roses there either. Infact I would say big 4 firms provide superior terms of conditions of employment.

And starting dates vary of course, but as far as I'm aware the Institute's training contract starts on 1 November usually so most people would be in situ by then.

That's a cracking username Cunning Stunts.

DolphinTales

Cyrus wrote: »

So you don't get a payrise now if you pass your finals?

I'm not being patronising you are trying to make it out to be an awful lot worse than it is, it's an accountancy training contract not 3 years of hard labour!

Our crowd still give to Audit and Assurance, not sure how they treat tax trainess.

Cyrus

DolphinTales wrote: »

I'm starting to think this forum is a whingefest. There is a sense of entitlement in this country that is scary. It's not just here it seems to be in every walk of life. Time to get real!

In anycase.....20k per annum is not a joke for someone(usually) just out of college and in normal circumstances it increases significantly year on year depending on exam success which is fair. Granted the last couple of years were hardly normal economically but still you gotta roll with the punches.

Secondly its a 3/3.5 year contract and even if it can be tough going people have to see the bigger picture. Accountancy is one of the most transferable skills to have, and allows you to work pretty much anywhere in the world in any industry. And anyone who does stay on and gets promoted does get a significant wedge per annum. And as I say it's only 3 or 3.5 years it's not that long in the greater scheme of things.

Thirdly the study leave is great, compared to people doing ACCA through industry there is no comparision.

Fourthly if anyone isn't happy getting 22k or 20k or 25k per annum them you can go to a smaller firm and get far less and still have to do the work, or just do something else, or sadly do nothing at all. I don't it's any great secret the way the accountancy industry works so it shouldn't be any great surprise if you're working long hours on crap money for a while. Some of the big 4 have given reasonable increases this year but I don't know the craic for all of them. People with 2.5 years experience are getting 33k plus which is fairly resaonable I think. Unlikely to get it in many industries at the moment.

There's no doubt it can be tough but I worked for a plc before stating my training contract and life wasn't exactly a bed of roses there either. Infact I would say big 4 firms provide superior terms of conditions of employment.

And starting dates vary of course, but as far as I'm aware the Institute's training contract starts on 1 November usually so most people would be in situ by then.

That's a cracking username Cunning Stunts.

totally agree with all of this,

there is some odd sense of entitlement from some of the people here, maybe they think because they have a decent degree and maybe a masters people will pay them to do nothing?

everyone joining has the same, get on with it, learn as much as you can, pass your exams first time and get out at the end of your contract with a good reference,

a lot of you need to grow up