Another stabbing... FFS!

Chochese

Just heard on a news report on the way into town that a young lad was stabbed in Thomas Street there last night. Presented himself to WRH for treatment.

Gardaí arrested someone in the early hours of the morning and have Thomas Street sealed off...

Seriously, what the fuçk is going on in this town?!

dermo909

Yeah its terrible alright. I've always thought of Waterford as a safe city but its getting less so as time goes on. Times are changing for suure

holy guacamole

I live on Thomas Street and I did hear some young wans arguing in the early hours but I didn't realise someone had been stabbed.

That was at about 1.30am so I don't know if the stabbing happened before or after that, I thought I heard one of them saying their uncle had been hurt so maybe they were referring to the stabbing, don't know any more unfortunately.

ziedth

They'd really want to get a grip on this now,

I think I have mentioned before that I am noticing more of a scumbag element around town. Espically on nights out.

Creamsoda

ziedth wrote: »

They'd really want to get a grip on this now,

I think I have mentioned before that I am noticing more of a scumbag element around town. Espically on nights out.

Yeah it would really put you off going out at. Much better to just have an auld session at home, at least that way your safe!

Cabaal

wtf, this place has gone to the dogs lately,

robtri

Creamsoda wrote: »

Yeah it would really put you off going out at. Much better to just have an auld session at home, at least that way your safe!

probably not most these murders/stabbings are happening at houses or housing estates... not in pubs...

dlofnep

ziedth wrote: »

They'd really want to get a grip on this now,

I think I have mentioned before that I am noticing more of a scumbag element around town. Espically on nights out.

What exactly do you suggest? Knife stabbings are usually spontaneous. They will happen regardless. We could put more Gardaí on the beat to curb street crime, but something tells me that this sort of craic is only going to get worse.

gscully

dlofnep wrote: »

What exactly do you suggest? Knife stabbings are usually spontaneous. They will happen regardless. We could put more Gardaí on the beat to curb street crime, but something tells me that this sort of craic is only going to get worse.

Spontaneous? Someone doesn't just find a knife, they already have it and are prepared to use it!

dlofnep

gscully wrote: »

Spontaneous? Someone doesn't just find a knife, they already have it and are prepared to use it!

Yes, but their actions of using it are obviously spontaenous.

So what do you suggest? Strip searching every single person in town? Banning the sale of knives so that we cut our meat with spoons? Is there actually a proposition that you have to curb knife crime?

Creamsoda

robtri wrote: »

probably not most these murders/stabbings are happening at houses or housing estates... not in pubs...

If you look at what I quoted I was talking about the amount of scumbags around... And I can trust my friends not to whip out a knife and stab someone in my house so it is a hell of a lot safer.

Typhoon.

unless the courts enforce a zero tolerance then its just going to keep on getting more common

jo06555

You know whats happening here is , these young guys tennagers mostly are growing up listening to storys of people solving differences with a knife rather than years ago when most would sort out differences with fists ,

All these young guys are the fellas who most likely will be carrying a knife to be cool and show others they better not mess with them , most probably dont intend on using them really until they get drunk or off their faces on drugs and end up in a fight , hey presto they use their weapon and hurt someone or kill then they go to jail rightly.

http://www.wlrfm.ie/tabId/269/itemId/2577/A-17-year-old-male-is-being-questioned-by-gardai-f.aspx

This says this is the 2nd incident of its kind in a week but wlr must not know a man was stabbed in ferry bank on weekend last too so thats 3

BlaasForRafa

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, but their actions of using it are obviously spontaenous.

So what do you suggest? Strip searching every single person in town? Banning the sale of knives so that we cut our meat with spoons? Is there actually a proposition that you have to curb knife crime?

Random stop and searches by the guards. Possibly they could use hand held detectors like those used in airports.



This type of incident is on the rise and its not going to be stopped by people throwing their hands up the air and saying "oh what are we going to do". And don't give us any malarkey about civil rights or human rights. The right to life is the most important one there is.

Yes Boss

jo06555 wrote: »

You know whats happening here is , these young guys tennagers mostly are growing up listening to storys of people solving differences with a knife rather than years ago when most would sort out differences with fists ,

All these young guys are the fellas who most likely will be carrying a knife to be cool and show others they better not mess with them , most probably dont intend on using them really until they get drunk or off their faces on drugs and end up in a fight , hey presto they use their weapon and hurt someone or kill then they go to jail rightly.

http://www.wlrfm.ie/tabId/269/itemId/2577/A-17-year-old-male-is-being-questioned-by-gardai-f.aspx

This says this is the 2nd incident of its kind in a week but wlr must not know a man was stabbed in ferry bank on weekend last too so thats 3

On the contrary only cowards carry knifes, fearful of their own shadow!!

Junior

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, but their actions of using it are obviously spontaenous.

So what do you suggest? Strip searching every single person in town? Banning the sale of knives so that we cut our meat with spoons? Is there actually a proposition that you have to curb knife crime?

Bollix to that, for two simple reasons

1- Either people are going out armed with a knife, with the intent of either 'protecting themselves' or 'doing someone', this isn't a spontaneous decision on the spur of the moment, it's a cool calculated decision. Certain elements of society now treat going armed with a knife, the same way we'd think about picking up a coat.

2 - If a row ensues, someone walks off/heads to their house and tools up and comes back to 'finish' the row, again this is not something spontaneous, it's not as if they tripped over the knife or grabbed it from their attacker. It's a decision albeit taken in anger that they go get some weapon/knife.

There is no way to cure number 2, however number 1 can be cured thru a number of differing ways.

Cabaal

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Random stop and searches by the guards. Possibly they could use hand held detectors like those used in airports.

Unless the Gardai has cause for a search they can't do random spot checks and right so imho

Fear should never be used a as an excuse to erode people's rights, its a very very slippery slope when you start down it

jo06555

Yes Boss wrote: »

On the contrary only cowards carry knifes, fearful of their own shadow!!

Ye your right , they afraid to use their fists these days.

hardybuck

Cabaal wrote: »

Unless the Gardai has cause for a search they can't do random spot checks and right so imho

Fear should never be used a as an excuse to erode people's rights, its a very very slippery slope when you start down it

Drug Squad regularly stop and search people already.

ziedth

Maybe the answer lies in the punishment of crimes when a knife is involved.

Just something as simple as doubling all sentances.

angry_fox

Build new prisons and reopen spike island, thats what is needed.

foxylad2

was in London recently - went to a city centre night club and had to walk through a security arch like in the airport - when i asked why - it was to prevent knives in the night club!

pwd

hardybuck wrote: »

Drug Squad regularly stop and search people already.

because it's more important to jail people for smoking joints than for stabbing people

ROCKMAN

Cabaal wrote: »

Unless the Gardai has cause for a search they can't do random spot checks and right so imho

Fear should never be used a as an excuse to erode people's rights, its a very very slippery slope when you start down it

Don't know you have been living but they have been doing this for years and not just the DS like another poster say.

As for a solution if these people have no fear of prison maybe hit them where it matters[to them] ,their pockets :rolleyes:[sorry]
A BIG FAT FINE for carrying a knife with the powers to take their goods and valuables for non-payment which can be enforced after say a month .They may not care about prison but they may think twice when they start losing their cars , ipods , phones etc etc.
Or ideally both prison and fine.

Cabaal

hardybuck wrote: »

Drug Squad regularly stop and search people already.

I'm sure they do, but I'm sure they very much have cause for it.,

Its not like the drug squad are going around the streets stopping people, I can honestly say that neither myself or anyone else I know has been stopped and searched for drugs or anything else.

Perhaps its the area the people are in or what they are doing at the time?

gscully

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, but their actions of using it are obviously spontaenous.

So what do you suggest? Strip searching every single person in town? Banning the sale of knives so that we cut our meat with spoons? Is there actually a proposition that you have to curb knife crime?

I'm saying that if someone is on the street with a knife in their pocket, then they're prepared to use it. Their actions are not spontaneous, they're pre-meditated!

hardybuck

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm sure they do, but I'm sure they very much have cause for it.,

Its not like the drug squad are going around the streets stopping people, I can honestly say that neither myself or anyone else I know has been stopped and searched for drugs or anything else.

Perhaps its the area the people are in or what they are doing at the time?

If you are walking anywhere just outside nightclub terroritory on a Sat night, and of a certain age chances are it'll happen sometime. My group were all middle class, well dressed and serious sports people and it happened to us twice as we strolled into town. They don't just stop scumbags.

First time I didn't mind-lads doing their job etc. Second time I was fairly pissed off. They could easily bring a metal dectector on their patrols.

Asmodean

I was stopped once before by the DS when me and a couple of friends were passing through Cathedral square one evening about 3-4 years ago. I had nothing to hide so I didn't mind them checking because at least I knew they were doing their job.

ziedth

I have to say if it happened to me I'd be seriously pissed off.

Professey Chin

Happened to me a few times.1st time I was a little taken back by it but since then I just let them search away.Not like theyre gonna find anything.

hardybuck

ziedth wrote: »

I have to say if it happened to me I'd be seriously pissed off.

You would be a little, you can't help feeling picked on for your age, and it seems like a very lazy approach to enforcement in comparison to targeting people who are almost certainly carrying\dealing. I mean they are supposed to be dedicated to tackling drugs in a small city so they will know or should know damn well who the culprits are. They aren't fooling anyone in their Opel Corsa with no hubcaps and a million ariels hanging off it-serious deep undercover lads!

However,there must be some merits to it, and if they were to bring a metal detector similar to whats carried in airports they could save a few lives.

KingLoser

I've been searched a load of times.

Almost to the point where I could complain against certain gardaí for harrassment. And they still haven't found the bodies! :pac:

Triangla

Knives don't kill people, people kill people. How about teaching ethics from day one in school and being taught about what is required of citizens of Ireland. Some people are clearly not getting that guidance at home.

A normal decent person would not kill regardless of whether they had a knife or gun in front of them.

tc2010

Its not the Guards fault people pick up knives either.

dayshah

Triangla wrote: »

Knives don't kill people, people kill people. How about teaching ethics from day one in school and being taught about what is required of citizens of Ireland. Some people are clearly not getting that guidance at home.

Yeah, I think most people pick up somewhere along the line that you shouldn't stab people. Telling people not to do it on their first day in school wont change anything.

Finnbar01

hardybuck wrote: »

If you are walking anywhere just outside nightclub terroritory on a Sat night, and of a certain age chances are it'll happen sometime. My group were all middle class, well dressed and serious sports people and it happened to us twice as we strolled into town. They don't just stop scumbags.

First time I didn't mind-lads doing their job etc. Second time I was fairly pissed off. They could easily bring a metal dectector on their patrols.

AFAIK, they should not have stopped and searched you if you are going about your business in a lawful and peaceful manner.

They can only stop you if they witness you commit a crime, are about to commit a crime or are on/near a crime scene.

This is educational and not legal advice.

KingLoser

Finnbar01 wrote: »

AFAIK, they should not have stopped and searched you if you are going about your business in a lawful and peaceful manner.

They can only stop you if they witness you commit a crime, are about to commit a crime or are on/near a crime scene.

This is educational and not legal advice.

Under the Public Order Act, they can do pretty much whatever they want.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-offences/public-order-offenses-in-ireland - they take whatever they feel like from that list and blab off POA, and next thing you know they've got their hands all over ya.

Ladies, please.

Finnbar01

KingLoser wrote: »

Under the Public Order Act, they can do pretty much whatever they want.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-offences/public-order-offenses-in-ireland - they take whatever they feel like from that list and blab off POA, and next thing you know they've got their hands all over ya.

Ladies, please.

So if you're walking down your street and you are committing none of these offences what reason could a garda give you on why he is stopping you?

Intoxication (being drunk) in a public place
Threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in a public place
Distribution or display in a public place of material which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene
Failure to comply with the direction of a member of An Garda Siochana
Wilful obstruction
Entering a building, etc, with intent to commit an offence
Trespass on a building, etc.
Riot
Violent disorder
Affray
Blackmail, extortion and demanding money with menaces
Assault with intent to cause bodily harm or commit an indictable offence
Assault or obstruction of a peace officer
Attacks on emergency service personnel

ziedth

They can always just say acting suspiciously which is subjective.

burkey85

ziedth wrote: »

They can always just say acting suspiciously which is subjective.

Thats exactly what they do,
Hasn't happened me in years, thank god but when i was in my late teens they often pulled me up and searched me for no apparent reason

Finnbar01

ziedth wrote: »

They can always just say acting suspiciously which is subjective.

Yeah, I agree and if you do end up in court, they'll tell the judge that you had appeared nervous.

giles lynchwood

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Yeah, I agree and if you do end up in court, they'll tell the judge that you had appeared nervous.

does this mean they lie under oath like a common criminal

tc2010

giles lynchwood wrote: »

does this mean they lie under oath like a common criminal

Absolutely and dont ever try convince me that Guards dont bend the rules

daftdave

ziedth wrote: »

I have to say if it happened to me I'd be seriously pissed off.

why???.......would you prefer that they did'nt check people for knives..... they probably dont know who you are so its not like they are harrassing you , its just random checks.......id be happy to let them check me , as a poster stated above , at least we know they are there doing their jobs and trying to protect us normal everyday people that are not involved in drugs/guns/knives etc.

burkey85

daftdave wrote: »

why???.......would you prefer that they did'nt check people for knives..... they probably dont know who you are so its not like they are harrassing you , its just random checks.......id be happy to let them check me , as a poster stated above , at least we know they are there doing their jobs and trying to protect us normal everyday people that are not involved in drugs/guns/knives etc.

Bull****, it does piss you off,
Happened to me one Saturday at 6pm while i was walkin home from work dressed in pants and shirt, not exactly dodgy lookin.
They then wanted to know why i had €350 on me, it was my wages.

deisedevil

I got searched one evening at about 7-8pm. Was doing nothing dodgy and didn't look like I was up to anything. They searched me and a friend just outside the church near Xtravision. Really went through my pockets and coat etc. Gave no reason why and were pretty pissed they didn't find anything. Is that allowed?

Finnbar01

deisedevil wrote: »

I got searched one evening at about 7-8pm. Was doing nothing dodgy and didn't look like I was up to anything. They searched me and a friend just outside the church near Xtravision. Really went through my pockets and coat etc. Gave no reason why and were pretty pissed they didn't find anything. Is that allowed?

No, it's not. Were they in uniform or plain clotes? If they were in plain clothes they should have showed you id. They should have also stated why they stopped you and under what act they were searching you under.

deisedevil

Finnbar01 wrote: »

No, it's not. Were they in uniform or plain clotes? If they were in plain clothes they should have showed you id. They should have also stated why they stopped you and under what act they were searching you under.

They were plain clothes, unmarked car. Showed ID. I asked why they were wanting to search and they just said because we can. They asked where we were going and what we were doing, went through our pockets and studied everything in detail and then told us to head off. Thought it was surely not allowed just to search without giving any kind of reason, muppets.

gscully

I'd be worried that they would already have 'evidence' in their hands as they do their search.

ziedth

^ I doubt things like that happen in reality at least not very often.

BlaasForRafa

deisedevil wrote: »

I got searched one evening at about 7-8pm. Was doing nothing dodgy and didn't look like I was up to anything. They searched me and a friend just outside the church near Xtravision. Really went through my pockets and coat etc. Gave no reason why and were pretty pissed they didn't find anything. Is that allowed?

In fairness you do look a bit sketchy at the best of times