Sports Nutrition

Wonkagirl

HI guys

I'm training for a few adventure races over the coming months, and am trying to do some more research on eating right.. i'm really keen to NOT gain any weight- I dont want to eat all the bagels in ireland ''just cos i'm training''.. but all the same i want to give my body the best chance to recover after training etc. i'm planning on doing about 10 hours training a week, largely cardio but also some resistance.

At the moment, before a training session of about an hour or so, i'd eat a banana, then a normal dinner afterwards- like a stir fry, omelette, etc..

I really hate energy bars or anything sugary.. any ideas? Am I ok to eat a pretty normal diet- ie porridge or cereal for breakfast, sambo or salad for lunch, and a normal-ish dinner? or should i be eating oak cakes with peanut butter and the like?

EileenG

Ten hours a week is not abnormal, you don't need a radical diet for that. I'd just try to put some protein into every meal. Try eating the odd egg for breakfast instead of cereal.

I'd get some whey and have a shake after lifting weights, or a particularly hard cardio session. Just when you feel you need some help with recovery.

After workouts, a protein and carb combination works best. The rest of the time, try to make sure you are basing your meals on protein, fat and lots of veg.

Wonkagirl

EileenG wrote: »

Ten hours a week is not abnormal, you don't need a radical diet for that. I'd just try to put some protein into every meal. Try eating the odd egg for breakfast instead of cereal.

I'd get some whey and have a shake after lifting weights, or a particularly hard cardio session. Just when you feel you need some help with recovery.

After workouts, a protein and carb combination works best. The rest of the time, try to make sure you are basing your meals on protein, fat and lots of veg.

Great- tks Eileen. You're right, 10 weeks isnt extreme I suppose. That's probably what i needed to hear- otherwise i'd be prone to overeating carbs and actually end up GAINING weight!

Will get myself some whey so.. is that like a powder substance that you add water to? have seen it in healthstores but never took much notice to be honest..

Khannie

What Eileen said is spot on. I would also highly recommend reading "The grapplers guide to sports nutrition". Although it's aimed at grapplers (wrestlers), there is nothing in it that I have found doesn't apply to every athlete.

Whey is a powder that comes from milk. It tends to have a very high protein content (typically in excess of 70%). I buy mine from myprotein.co.uk and find it very reasonable and good quality. I buy the unflavoured whey concentrate which is 80% protein. I'd flavour it myself with whatever I fancy (usually nesquik or something like that) but of course you're free to get a flavoured one to save yourself the hassle.

Wonkagirl

Khannie wrote: »

What Eileen said is spot on. I would also highly recommend reading "The grapplers guide to sports nutrition". Although it's aimed at grapplers (wrestlers), there is nothing in it that I have found doesn't apply to every athlete.

Whey is a powder that comes from milk. It tends to have a very high protein content (typically in excess of 70%). I buy mine from myprotein.co.uk and find it very reasonable and good quality. I buy the unflavoured whey concentrate which is 80% protein. I'd flavour it myself with whatever I fancy (usually nesquik or something like that) but of course you're free to get a flavoured one to save yourself the hassle.

Thanks Kannie- located that book on amazon, cheers. I was hoping that patrick holford had written on the subject but i guess low GL doesnt really go well with high impact training!

I wont gain weight or lots of muscle with whey will I? I suppose if i saved it, as eileen said, for long sessions or race day then it shoudl be fine..

Khannie

Gaining muscle is actually *incredibly* difficult and time consuming. You really need to put effort into it and eat a calorie surplus. So no, you wont gain muscle with it. I'm still what most people would call skinny and I use a lot of whey and train a LOT (a heavy week for me would be 25+ hours of training, a good bit of it weights). If you would prefer not to use a supplement like whey there is no real reason other than convenience not to get your protein elsewhere (meat, fish, eggs, yoghurt, etc.).

Also, the general consensus among people that I respect is that Holford is rubbish.

Before you shell out for books, it's worth reading the stickies in here and in the fitness forum. There is a lot of really sound dietary information in them.

--Kaiser--

Khannie wrote: »

Gaining muscle is actually *incredibly* difficult and time consuming. You really need to put effort into it and eat a calorie surplus. So no, you wont gain muscle with it

Since she's a girl and has a lot less testosterone it will likely be difficult, I don't find it particularly difficult to gain muscle mass.

Khannie

I think you're nitpicking a bit.

My point was that adding 30g of whey a day to your diet and changing nothing else will have no impact on your muscle mass whatsoever (whether you're male or female).

There are a large number of people who think that doing some weights or adding a protein shake here and there will make them big and muscular. In reality, getting to beefcake status takes an enormous amount of effort. Much much more than people realise in my experience (and that question is an example of the widespread perception that muscle goes on easy).

--Kaiser--

I misunderstood your point. But to not discourage people wishing to put on muscle mass, I don't think it's too difficult, as long as you do the right exercises (quality rather than quantity is important I think) , eat the right food and don't expect immediate results.

Wonkagirl

Holford is my hero!!!! (but that's another thread) I'm going to have to put his books aside though until October, cos clearly a low GL diet and training dont marry well..

It's definitely harder for birds to build muscle, but all the same, not impossible. I've been doing 2 weight sessions a week for about 6 months now, and i've gained considerable muscle. Granted, i've lost almost 10% of body fat, but very little on the scales- for obvious reasons. again, another thread!

metamorphosis

It'd be nor harm to to read Anita Beans complete guide to sports nutririon. I think the 6th ed. is the most recent.

Dotcomdolly

I just ordered the Runners World guide to nutrition as I'm training for the half-mar in September and want to find out the best way to fuel the extra running/training, I want to lose 5+lbs too.

Wonkagirl

Dotcomdolly wrote: »

I just ordered the Runners World guide to nutrition as I'm training for the half-mar in September and want to find out the best way to fuel the extra running/training, I want to lose 5+lbs too.

Yeah, i'd like to lose about 5 lbs too- which is why i'm keen to find the line between fuelling the training, and not eating every bagel in ireland 'just because i'm training''.. did you buy that on the RW website? is it an ebook? will have a look at all 3 that have been suggested here and see which one i think i'll like the most

EileenG

I remember reading about a study where they took a group of couch potatoes and trained them to run a marathon. At the end of it, they were all fit enough, and most of them did finish it. But while the men lost an average of 2kg, the women lost nothing. They just increased food intake to balance extra exercise.

Take home message: Don't deliberately eat extra stuff because you are exercising. You'll get hungry in proportion to exercise, just try to make the best food choices when that happens.

Khannie

EileenG wrote: »

But while the men lost an average of 2kg, the women lost nothing.

If you can remember, did they lose any body fat?

Wonkagirl

EileenG wrote: »

I remember reading about a study where they took a group of couch potatoes and trained them to run a marathon. At the end of it, they were all fit enough, and most of them did finish it. But while the men lost an average of 2kg, the women lost nothing. They just increased food intake to balance extra exercise.

Take home message: Don't deliberately eat extra stuff because you are exercising. You'll get hungry in proportion to exercise, just try to make the best food choices when that happens.

Thanks Eileen.. very interesting.. Gonna print your post and pin it to my fridge when i get my ''ah but i've just run 10km'' munchies:)

Dotcomdolly

Wonkagirl wrote: »

Yeah, i'd like to lose about 5 lbs too- which is why i'm keen to find the line between fuelling the training, and not eating every bagel in ireland 'just because i'm training''.. did you buy that on the RW website? is it an ebook? will have a look at all 3 that have been suggested here and see which one i think i'll like the most

Hi, I got it on book depository

A lot of the stuff I read leads me towards cutting carbs and increasing protein to lose weight but then there is the whole carbs/athletics link so I am/was confused at how to do both. Haven't got the book yet but hopefully it will make things clearer.

At the moment I am doing ok (when I stick to it)...
porridge with fruit & seeds for breakfast
fruit for snacks or oatcake with peanut butter & bit of jam
lunch - salad or other non bread/carb based meal
Dinner - same as above

and NO (and this is the hard bit) no sweets, chocs, crisps, etc.

But am keen to learn more.

Here's to a lean mean training machine

EileenG

I think they all recomped, but there was no actual weight loss for the women.

Wonkagirl

Dotcomdolly wrote: »

A lot of the stuff I read leads me towards cutting carbs and increasing protein to lose weight but then there is the whole carbs/athletics link so I am/was confused at how to do both.

That's exactly my predicament.. I dont want to compromise the training, but I want to lose a few lbs..

I'm going to proceed with eileens advice of including protein in every meal- eggs, tofu, chickpeas (i'm a huge chickpea fan so this should be easy), and only allow bread if i'm doing a particularly long training session.. wholemeal bagels and peanut butter are my treat before a long session/race.. that's OK as you'll burn them off

Also, a friend of mine has recommended a place called "Fighting Fit" on Camden street beside Flannery's, it's a tiny local business shop selling everything you're going to need suppliment wise. The guy in there, Tony, really knows his stuff about nutrition and fitness. He's like an encyclopedia apparently! Going into him on saturday..

Dotcomdolly

Here's a lovely recipe That I do using chickpeas
on bbc

I got the meridian natural crunchy peanut butter in the health food shop, it's yum, and nothing added at all.
Would you try oatcakes instead of the bagel, slightly (hope I'm right) less refined?

Wonkagirl

Dotcomdolly wrote: »

Here's a lovely recipe That I do using chickpeas
on bbc

I got the meridian natural crunchy peanut butter in the health food shop, it's yum, and nothing added at all.
Would you try oatcakes instead of the bagel, slightly (hope I'm right) less refined?

yeaaaaaaaaaaah i could try.. i love bagels tho.. also, i find that if i have oatcakes in the house, i'll eat 8 of them on the trot.. at least if i only buy 1 bagel, i cant eat 8 of them.

I use the Kelkin crunchy organic peanut butter.. it's gorgeous as well. except that i find when i come in drunk on a sat nite i tuck into the jar with a spoon while i'm on facebook at 3am!

metamorphosis

I just started reading Fundamentals of sport and exercise nutririon by Marie Dunford and i would recommend it to read for anyone who has never read or has any background knowledge in the area. Its a great little book for those having never looked at sports nutrition.

Having found anita beans sports nutrition book easy to get through as i studied it before, i imagine for a complete nutrition novice that it might be a slight bit more denser. If so id recommend starting with Dunfords book.

Transform

Wonkagirl wrote: »

Thanks Eileen.. very interesting.. Gonna print your post and pin it to my fridge when i get my ''ah but i've just run 10km'' munchies:)

totally agree with that on the marathon as i trained and did a marathon in new york a few years ago with 5 other clients and most looked the exact same as they did when they began training 6 months prior to the marathon despite all the training

Macha

EileenG wrote: »

After workouts, a protein and carb combination works best. The rest of the time, try to make sure you are basing your meals on protein, fat and lots of veg.

Actually, there's some evidence that carb + protein post-work out doesn't work as well for women as for men:

This time, though, the results were quite different. The women showed no clear benefit from protein during recovery. They couldn’t ride harder or longer. In fact, the women who received protein said that their legs felt more tired and sore during the intervals than did women who downed only carbohydrates. The results, Dr. Rowlands says, were “something of a surprise.”

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/phys-ed-what-exercise-science-doesnt-know-about-women/?src=me&ref=homepage

The problem for female athletes is that many studies are done on men and then assumed to extrapolate out to women - which is bad sampling methodology.

El_Dangeroso

taconnol wrote: »

Actually, there's some evidence that carb + protein post-work out doesn't work as well for women as for men:



http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/phys-ed-what-exercise-science-doesnt-know-about-women/?src=me&ref=homepage

The problem for female athletes is that many studies are done on men and then assumed to extrapolate out to women - which is bad sampling methodology.

I read that too, interesting article. Having said that I do feel like I recover a little better with some protein pwo. Placebo effect?

Macha

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I read that too, interesting article. Having said that I do feel like I recover a little better with some protein pwo. Placebo effect?

Possibly - I guess we shouldn't repeat the same mistake again. Men and women aren't always alike but not all women are always alike.

EileenG

My personal experience is that the protein and carb meal helped me. I used to have the school run from hell: One bicycle, three children, hills and headwinds. And I'd come in and literally lie on the ground muttering "I wish I were dead, I wish I were dead". Adding a whey shake with a couple of teaspoons of glucose turned it from "I wish I were dead" to "More f***ing school run". It never got fun, but at least it got do-able.

brianthebard

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I read that too, interesting article. Having said that I do feel like I recover a little better with some protein pwo. Placebo effect?

Surely eating some calories after training no matter what macro is going to help recovery over not eating. Not talking about nutrient timing or anything like that, just pure calorie intake.

Transform

i would agree - even dried fruit would be handy post workout

siochain

speaking of the dried fruit

if your adventure race is over a few hours duration and you don’t like energy bars, try raisins. You can by them in bags of small pre-packed boxes, very light and when the going is though your have a small package if dense carbs. Few years back did a few endurance hill races and found them very helpful

Wonkagirl

siochain wrote: »

speaking of the dried fruit

if your adventure race is over a few hours duration and you don’t like energy bars, try raisins. You can by them in bags of small pre-packed boxes, very light and when the going is though your have a small package if dense carbs. Few years back did a few endurance hill races and found them very helpful

very good idea siochain, thanks.. adventure race is 5-6 hours. Last yr i didnt eat half enough- by god did i feel it the next day.

This is my plan for this yr:

Breakfast- banana, eggs on wholemeal toast, and bagel with peanut butter.. coffee, 500 mls of water.

1hour 15 (at kayak interchange) energy bar
2 hours (on bike) 1 energy gel
4 hours (finish of bike) banana
5 hours (top of croagh patrick)- small bar of chocolate

will put raisins into my pockets and sneak them in as a go- it's a great idea.

Post recovery will be pasta and soup, which they are providing at the finish line.. will also have a proper meal later that nite too. washed down with 10 glasses of vino blanco:D

Wonkagirl

Got some 'Whey to go' in the health shoppe in merrion centre on saturday.. i was going to buy the 'power bar' protein plus whey, but it's full of sugar! The 'whey to go' is a solgar product and much more natural.. was 60 eur for about 30 portions, so it better be bloody good:rolleyes:

Also, someone told me that 'hemp' is a super protein source, so bought some crushed (linwoods) hemp which i'm going to sprinkle on my porridge/salads

Khannie

Wonkagirl wrote: »

was 60 eur for about 30 portions, so it better be bloody good:rolleyes:

Bad news....you were completely robbed.

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/products/impact_whey_protein

Wonkagirl

mine is a totally different one than that.. firstly, it only has 60kcals for the same measurement.. i probably was completely had, but too difficult to know when it's a different product. mine has a lower sugar content- which is very important for me
http://www.solgar.co.uk/browse/solgar-protein-2/


the large one here is 44gbp- so not too different to my 60eur..

Khannie

Wonkagirl wrote: »

mine is a totally different one than that.. firstly, it only has 60kcals for the same measurement

Not so....

Mine says:

Per 30g: Energy: 118.0Kcal

Yours says:

Each level scoop (approx. 28g) provides: Calories 110.

When you equal them both up to 30g, that gives mine 118 and yours 118.

Yours also has 7g of carbs in it versus 1.8g in mine.

Yours also has approximately 60% protein, mine 80%.

If sugar really is that important to you you'd be taking the one I linked. If it's *really* *really* important to you then you should consider some whey isolate like this one. It has a very very low carb content.

Not sure where you got the 60 calories bit from so maybe we're not comparing like with like.

Wonkagirl

I'll know for the next time so:)

metamorphosis

Im currently using USN chocolate cream - oh nom. less than 2gms carbs i think and 24gms protein per serving and that chocolatly goodness mixed intoporridge. Heaven.