Cases of cheating in professional golf?

danthefan

I was listening to the Pat Kenny this morning, they were doing a bit on the World Cup and they had Dunphy and some French (I think) guy on discussing technology and cheating and the likes where guys will dive to win a penalty or free kick. Dunphy pointed out that loads of other sports such as rugby, tennis, cricket, American football etc all employ technology, and then made the point that golf wouldn't even need it because cheating just doesn't happen and professionals will even call penalties on themselves. I can remember a few seasons back Darren Clark had to stop his round due to bad light, came back the next morning to find his lie had much improved, and still only chipped out despite the fact he'd have been able to hit a full shot. Also remember Harrington calling a penalty on himself in the recent past.

Have there been any cases of cheating in professional golf? I don't know of any anyway.

new shoes

HaHA!

A mate of mine used to slide balls down his trousers when he couldnt find where his ball went...

Zak Flaps

Wasn't Vijay accused of cheating some years back?

FortuneChip

Tiger Woods?


Did McDowell call a penalty on himself a few months back for touching water on his back swing? I think it was him, checked the replay after his round and called it then, or something similar.
Golf is the true Gentlemans' game, yes, I place my ball about 5/6ft closer to the pin after marking my ball on the green, but who doesn't do that?

The_Kew_Tour

I cant remember if im correct on this but I remember Jarmo Sandelin accusing Mark O Meara of cheating maybe 10 or so years ago in competition.

Cant remember why. Does anyone remember? Was there incident few weeks ago where guy double hit a shot and got away with it?

I know it goes on lot more then we would like to believe.

Hardest of all was when I was in team event few years ago as junior. I know for fact one my team mates did the found the ball from nowhere, when I know it had no chance of landing their I even saw ball and even though it was correct ball and number his marking was not on ball. I told my captain about it and he brought it up and he lost the game and we got knocked out of competition.

He never spoke to me after or since but in fairness I know I did right thing and even my team mates said I did too. He was noted for cheating in past and since left the club.

However im not so sure I would do it again. I know was right thing but hassle and controversy at time was just way too annoying for my liking.

The_Kew_Tour

FortuneChip wrote: »

Tiger Woods?


Did McDowell call a penalty on himself a few months back for touching water on his back swing? I think it was him, checked the replay after his round and called it then, or something similar.
Golf is the true Gentlemans' game, yes, I place my ball about 5/6ft closer to the pin after marking my ball on the green, but who doesn't do that?

:eek:

heavyballs

Zak Flaps wrote: »

Wasn't Vijay accused of cheating some years back?

before he became famous worldwide i beleive he was actually caught and did serve a ban although i can't find the link,i think it was on the asian tour

Jimdagym

heavyballs wrote: »

before he became famous worldwide i beleive he was actually caught and did serve a ban although i can't find the link,i think it was on the asian tour

He was alright. Defo the asian tour too. Was it something to do with a ball being marked at low light, and the next day he had miraculously appeared in a much better position? Thats ringing a bell but i could be way off.

Russman

I think it may have been something to do with altering a scorecard...? Something like that anyway.

Tom Ghostwood

adrian280582 wrote: »

I cant remember if im correct on this but I remember Jarmo Sandelin accusing Mark O Meara of cheating maybe 10 or so years ago in competition. Cant remember why. Does anyone remember? ?

I think it was something about placing his ball closer to the hole on the green after marking & cleaning it or something.

FortuneChip

adrian280582 wrote: »

FortuneChip wrote: »

I place my ball about 5/6ft closer to the pin after marking my ball on the green, but who doesn't do that?[/QUOTE]

:eek:

Ha, slight joke there. Apologies for any disturbance caused.

downthemiddle

Tom Ghostwood wrote: »

I think it was something about placing his ball closer to the hole on the green after marking & cleaning it or something.

It earned him the nickname Mark O'Nearer.

There was also a Scottish professional who was disqualified from the Open qualifying competition for allegedly replacing his ball 10ft closer to the hole ( name of Robertson I think )

There was a golfer in a club I played in as a teenager who was notorious on the greens. One day his playing partner told him to be careful or he wouldn't have to putt.

Paulusmaximus

There was an incident with Montgomerie once, in Indonesia. ball was in a difficult position on side of bunker with awkward stance, there was a rain delay, he came back,replaced his ball and lie and stance where in a much better position.

He wound up getting the finish he needed to remain among the top 50 in the world rankings, good enough for a spot in the Masters.

Also Vijay i think has been thrown off two tours the Asian Tour and the austalian tour. Asia was for apparant cheating, changing scores and australia i think for being bankrupt..

From wiki:
Two years after turning professional, in 1984, Singh won the Malaysian PGA Championship. However, his career was plunged into crisis after he was suspended from the Asian Tour in 1985 over allegations he doctored his scorecard. It was alleged that he lowered his score from one over to one under in order to make the cut, but Singh denies this, saying that in any case, it should only have resulted in disqualification from the event rather than a ban.
Singh felt he had been more harshly treated because the marker was "the son of a VIP in the Indonesian PGA."[4] He then took a job at the Keningau Club in Sabah, Malaysia, before his move to the Miri Golf Club in Sarawak. While this was a period of hardship for him, he continued to gain experience.[5

Doesn't mention the australian tour but i'm sure i read it somewhere before..

danthefan

When I used to play those underage interclub stableford competitions a fair few years ago now (can't remember the name now, but teams of 4 would go around playing different clubs inc. Corrstown, The Island, Portmarnock, Royal Dublin, Beaverstown), cheating was pretty rampant. People making up scores, dropping balls, improving lies, etc.

Paulusmaximus

its still rampant, have heard stories of cheating in the amateur championships this year and also an unproven story of cheating in the interpro's in the last couple of years.... how true they are i don't know... but there's usually no smoke without fire....

Russman

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

its still rampant, have heard stories of cheating in the amateur championships this year and also an unproven story of cheating in the interpro's in the last couple of years.... how true they are i don't know... but there's usually no smoke without fire....

Anecdotally it still seems to be fairly widespread alright. Some of the stories are quite (un) believable - depending on your viewpoint.
I think most of the guys on the amateur circuit would know who the alleged culprits are.

Plus I'd say every club has 3 or 4 guys who'd have an unspoken reputation....you get the knowing nod when its mentioned that so and so won something

Jimdagym

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

There was an incident with Montgomerie once, in Indonesia. ball was in a difficult position on side of bunker with awkward stance, there was a rain delay, he came back,replaced his ball and lie and stance where in a much better position.

That was tho one I was thinking of. Sorry Vijay!

heavyballs

re VJ


Nearly twenty years ago a 22-year old Vijay Singh was fined by the Southeast Asia Golf Association for modifying his scorecard in a tournament by one stroke so he could make a cut. As this Sports Illustrated article points out, the growing tendency in the media is to forgive and forget this incident. "He's a great golfer," the thinking goes. "Cut him some slack for a youthful indiscretion and let the man's brilliance be the standard-bearer for his career."

curly from cork

downthemiddle wrote: »

It earned him the nickname Mark O'Nearer.

There was also a Scottish professional who was disqualified from the Open qualifying competition for allegedly replacing his ball 10ft closer to the hole ( name of Robertson I think )

There was a golfer in a club I played in as a teenager who was notorious on the greens. One day his playing partner told him to be careful or he wouldn't have to putt.

what a great line must remember that one:):)

Johnny_Fontane

there was a case this year on the european tour -

Spaniard Borja Etchart, a 21-year-old playing just his third European Tour event and thrilled to be invited by tournament host Miguel Angel Jimenez on Monday, and Norwegian Eirik Tage Johansen were the two involved.
Johansen and former Ryder Cup player Andrew Coltart, the third member of the group, spoke to each other about the way Etchart put his ball back. But as the one marking the card Johansen had a responsibility to bring the matter to the attention of a referee, and because he signed the card and handed it in he too was told he was out of the £896,000 event.

Clareman

Harrington got kicked out of The English Open (I think) for not signing his card, it was a mistake, but he was winning the comp. easily and a local hotel was looking for his cards to frame

danthefan

Clareman wrote: »

Harrington got kicked out of The English Open (I think) for not signing his card, it was a mistake, but he was winning the comp. easily and a local hotel was looking for his cards to frame

I remember that. Hardly cheating though.

Woodgate

Clareman wrote: »

Harrington got kicked out of The English Open (I think) for not signing his card, it was a mistake, but he was winning the comp. easily and a local hotel was looking for his cards to frame

Shouldn't be mentioned in the same context/post as cheating, that was a genuine error on his part.

flugel

new shoes wrote: »

HaHA!

A mate of mine used to slide balls down his trousers when he couldnt find where his ball went...

He doesn't play in Gort by chance?

rednik

I remember Greg Norman accused Mark McCumber of cheating during a tournament on the PGA Tour, it must have been nearly 20 years ago. I don't recall what ever came of it but it was very controversial at the time.

Oliverdog

rednik wrote: »

I remember Greg Norman accused Mark McCumber of cheating during a tournament on the PGA Tour, it must have been nearly 20 years ago. I don't recall what ever came of it but it was very controversial at the time.

I wonder if it earned Mark McCumber a nickname too. It certainly cries out for one.

Mr. Rager

Quote from sunday times :
Sandy Lyle, a former Open champion and once a rival of Colin Montgomerie to captain the 2010 Ryder Cup team, has made the astonishing claim that his fellow Scot got the job despite being guilty of rule-breaking in a tournament four years ago.

Lyle was harking back to an incident at the Indonesian Open, when Montgomerie appeared to take an incorrect drop in a bunker after a rain delay.

Remember this?

thegen

Clareman wrote: »

Harrington got kicked out of The English Open (I think) for not signing his card, it was a mistake, but he was winning the comp. easily and a local hotel was looking for his cards to frame

Harongton got dsq for failing to sign a card, not cheating, end of.

Jasonw

I remember reading an article on cheating in Today's golfer a couple of years back. Very interesting. I'll see if i can put my hands on it.

If memory serves wasn't there a man caught playing on the ladies pro tour sometime back? There was also at least 1 pro who was banned for life for serious cheating.

uptheroyals

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

its still rampant, have heard stories of cheating in the amateur championships this year and also an unproven story of cheating in the interpro's in the last couple of years.... how true they are i don't know... but there's usually no smoke without fire....

this is correct, one underage irish international was caught doctoring his card in the west of ireland. Another irish player was caught late last year moving a ball (which was hushed up by the gui who told him to take a break and let it die down), he is now playing interopro golf at the moment!! Also just before that a regular underage winner on the amatuer circuit signed into a competition in his home club, went to the practice area for 4 hrs, then returned a card to get himself cut!! he was caught on cctv on the practice area when he should have been playing. These are all fact as i would be friendly with alot of these guys

Russman

Wasn't there a case maybe 10 or 15 years ago where an Irish international (now a pro) was seen by his partner (now a very high profile pro) kicking his ball out of a bunker in a foresomes match ? The partner allegedly told him to pick up the ball and conceded the hole, I think it all died away after that, although it may have been why the kicker turned pro in the end.

Plus the stories about really low handicappers (and I mean serious operators) and scorecards and cuts etc etc are waaay too numerous for at least some of them not to be true. I used to bump into a guy at the range on occasion who played off 1 and, literally, a few weeks later he was winning a junior scratch off 4 ! When I asked what was the story, there was a garbled story put out about the GUI and a "mistake" in his handicap - turned out some of the rounds where he got cut, he never played.

Apologies to the Op as your post was about professional golf but I think, at the highest level, amateur golf isn't as squeaky clean as the authorities would like us to believe, and as stated in the post above, incidents are often shoved under the carpet due to vested interests.

Adiaga 2

rednik wrote: »

I remember Greg Norman accused Mark McCumber of cheating during a tournament on the PGA Tour, it must have been nearly 20 years ago. I don't recall what ever came of it but it was very controversial at the time.

Yeah Norman accused McCumber of tapping down a spike mark on his line. McCumber said it was a fly. I think McCumber went on to win the event.

Apparently after the incident Faldo met Norman at some formal function and started brushing his solder with his hand and said something like 'Sorry Greg, there was a spike mark on your jacket.' That Faldo - what a card!

Faldo's joke aside, I think most players took Norman's side and McCumber's reputation suffered.

Paulusmaximus

What i find difficult to understand is why these players are not named and shamed... the gui and clubs seem to go out of their way, after imposing bans to keep it quiet and under the radar. i feel the more press these incidents get the more it may become a deterrant. Aprime example is the guy in the West of Ireland this year. Why not have a short news story on the GUI website to say that he was disqualified for cheating and the ban he has to serve?

I've also heard of a story in the last 1/2 years where a player from a club who where in the senior cup finals was caught cheating... he was given a 2 week ban so that he'd be back for the finals... if true that can't be right...

We've an ongoing case in our club at the minute with a low handicapper who has already got a chequered past... when finally settled i might enlighten you all, but i suppose i have to side with innocent until proven guilty until then....

Sorry again OP for going off topic somewhat, maybe we should set up a new thread for amateurs?? or will that just be clogging up the forum?

Russman

Probably a lot of reasons they keep it quiet, image of the game, image of the Union, need these players on teams (both club teams and national), grants may have been given, a player may have represented Ireland at the GUI's expense in some far off corner of the world and they wouldn't want him/her known as a cheat, too much hassle, etc etc.

Plus in today's increasingly litigous society, once the word cheat is mentioned, its next stop the courts. Very difficult to prove whats deliberate and whats a mistake. All too easy for someone to simply say he accidently kicked his ball while searching for it in the rough.

We had a case in our club where a known dodgy operator was being watched with binoculours by several committee members around the course during an event (I kid you not !) and when they looked at his card and the scores were different to what they observers had witnessed, they challenged him on it and he simply said "....ohh God, yeah you're right, I had a 5 there not a 4, sorry, my mistake...."

What do you do......

Rabidlamb

I play a weekly fourball where one of our friends would mark in front of the ball but then replace the ball in front of the marker.
One day he had a tricky side hill 2 footer which he marked & replaced twice, gaining about 6 inches.
My partner shouts out "mark it again & I'll give it to you".

Jasonw

Yeah, that one is pretty old. Played with a guy in a scratch cup last weekend who marked the ball to the side and replaced it in front. Told him he couldn't do that on the second hole and got the old ' didn't realise I had done that' I mean, how could you not? It always seems to be the older guys though. Never seen a younger golfer pull that one.

Same guy later in the round hit one in the trees. not having a provisional to hand I handed him my Provo, a brand new TM Penta which he hooked way out of bounds. After the hole he handed me a badly scuffed up ProV1 only fit for the practice bag winking at me as if he had done me a favour.:eek::rolleyes:

The_Kew_Tour

Jasonw wrote: »

It always seems to be the older guys though. Never seen a younger golfer pull that one.

A very interesting point and one I would tend to agree with in general.

Older guys think they can get away with it I think.

Paulusmaximus

the trick seems to be, change your score so you are in bufferzone or just above it... these cards often go under the radar as they are not in the prizes...if its discovered then you plead that you had a crap score, that its not your card because you didn't return one and that yours is in the bin in the carpark/shop/train station/home....and that the card returned can't be yours..

JerryHandbag

Didnt Seve accuse Paul Azinger of something in the Ryder Cup 91, or was it the other way round...

Speak Now

Also something happened recently with Sergio and Dorothy Perkins.
Herself gave her usual response to everything by pulling a face :rolleyes:

Hacker111

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Didnt Seve accuse Paul Azinger of something in the Ryder Cup 91, or was it the other way round...

I think the Yanks switched make of golf ball on tee, it was no rule break as I know

gorfield

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

What i find difficult to understand is why these players are not named and shamed... the gui and clubs seem to go out of their way, after imposing bans to keep it quiet and under the radar. i feel the more press these incidents get the more it may become a deterrant. Aprime example is the guy in the West of Ireland this year. Why not have a short news story on the GUI website to say that he was disqualified for cheating and the ban he has to serve?

I've also heard of a story in the last 1/2 years where a player from a club who where in the senior cup finals was caught cheating... he was given a 2 week ban so that he'd be back for the finals... if true that can't be right...

We've an ongoing case in our club at the minute with a low handicapper who has already got a chequered past... when finally settled i might enlighten you all, but i suppose i have to side with innocent until proven guilty until then....

Sorry again OP for going off topic somewhat, maybe we should set up a new thread for amateurs?? or will that just be clogging up the forum?

That senior cup incident did indeed happen paul, its the worst case iv ever heard of.....(and ive seen many) The guy in question had a poor enough score 28pts approx, and decided a new scorecard was needed......so refilled a fresh one with 36pts to avoid .1 ....and even signed his partners name on the new card.......However......the wind and rain got up for the afternoon and 36pts got in the prizes loooool, so this flashed up when the playing partner spotted the prizewinners.....he got a 2 week suspension from the club and senior cup was magically 3wks away......Had this been a gui event it would have been a minimum 1yr ban. Justice me arse.

veetwin

Clareman wrote: »

Harrington got kicked out of The English Open (I think) for not signing his card, it was a mistake, but he was winning the comp. easily and a local hotel was looking for his cards to frame

How is this relevant to a thread on cheating? Shame on you for even mentioning it in this regard...

Pisco Sour

Didnt Gary Player come out recently and say that he knows of a fair few professional golfers using Performance Enhancing Drugs? If so then that would be cheating.

markie4

Would this be the same gary player who won the '74 British Open with his caddie allegedly dropping a ball down his trouser leg on the second last hole when the ball was lost????? The original ball is supposedly kept as a memento in the office of some R&A official.

Or the gary player who in a televised skins match with tom watson, was told "gary we getting sick of this sh*t", for repeatedly improving his lie in the rough?


But he has a point about the drugs

heavyballs

Darren Clark left his ball on the edge of one of the par 5's today,his partner has a chip from about fifteen yards,proceded to chip it in off D's ball for an eagle
they were having a great laugh about it,i think that's a f...ing disgrace,not as if he was hitting a wedge from say 80 yards,it was a very makeable chip

Miley Byrne

heavyballs wrote: »

Darren Clark left his ball on the edge of one of the par 5's today,his partner has a chip from about fifteen yards,proceded to chip it in off D's ball for an eagle
they were having a great laugh about it,i think that's a f...ing disgrace,not as if he was hitting a wedge from say 80 yards,it was a very makeable chip

I don't get you. If Clarke's ball was on the edge of the green and his partner chipped from 15 yards, surely it was a million to one chance of his ball deflecting off of Clarke's ball and into the hole? Am I picking you up correct?
If so I don't see a big deal in it.

As for it being in a thread about cheating......

danthefan

Was Clarke's ball actually on the green?

heavyballs

danthefan wrote: »

Was Clarke's ball actually on the green?

sorry DC's ball was on the edge of the cup basically

heavyballs

denisoc16 wrote: »

I don't get you. If Clarke's ball was on the edge of the green and his partner chipped from 15 yards, surely it was a million to one chance of his ball deflecting off of Clarke's ball and into the hole? Am I picking you up correct?
If so I don't see a big deal in it.

As for it being in a thread about cheating......

did u see the incident ? well then sshhh

Miley Byrne

danthefan wrote: »

Was Clarke's ball actually on the green?

But there's nothing to say that he has to mark his ball if it's on the green. I'd like to see the incident to see why heavyballs thinks it's "a f...ing disgrace".