lamping vermin legal or not

landkeeper

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant .
i was having a chat with a garda the other day and he touched on the subjetc of lamping foxes and rabbits and that it was going to be clamped down on in the near future , he was pretty adamant that it's illegal and quoted said piece of legislation all i can find on line is a synopsis of it

clivej

I don't know the law on this but when I applied for my 223 license I told the Super, at interview, that I would be using it for lamping vermine at night.

johngalway

I doubt very much what you were told is accurate LK. I've been told some things by Gardai which were completely inaccurate and contradictory.

Shooting foxes and rabbits at night are both genuinely necessary activities from an agricultural viewpoint. Rural TD's would also get hell.

How many people hunt stags?

How many people shoot foxes & rabbits at night?

Ranks up there with the "They're going to make the .223 illegal" rumor

jimbrowning

landkeeper wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant .
i was having a chat with a garda the other day and he touched on the subjetc of lamping foxes and rabbits and that it was going to be clamped down on in the near future , he was pretty adamant that it's illegal and quoted said piece of legislation all i can find on line is a synopsis of it

i saw somwhere that it is legal to lamp from your jeep/car on a public road. it is not legal however to shoot from a public road. i think the law is 100ft from and shoot away from the road. i,l see if i can find it again.
so going by that, it is legal to shoot fox and rabbit inder a lamp

jimbrowning

johngalway wrote: »

I doubt very much what you were told is accurate LK. I've been told some things by Gardai which were completely inaccurate and contradictory.

Shooting foxes and rabbits at night are both genuinely necessary activities from an agricultural viewpoint. Rural TD's would also get hell.

How many people hunt stags?

How many people shoot foxes & rabbits at night?

Ranks up there with the "They're going to make the .223 illegal" rumor

why wud 223 not be legal john? hope is never happens!!! i just bought 1!!!

johngalway

jimbrowning wrote: »

why wud 223 not be legal john? hope is never happens!!! i just bought 1!!!

It was a persistent rumor doing the rounds a few years back, that at best the .223 would be classed as a "restricted military calibre" and at worst would be banned outright. There was no truth in it.

ivanthehunter

Nothing in Irish statute law prohibits lamping of unprotected species AFAIK.

However local authorities could pass by laws in specific areas if they wished under subordinate legislation.

Dusty87

I had a non-hunter (or shooter) put down my neck lamping was illegal without a licence. I said no think your on about deer. Nope he wouldnt budge.
Its legal. Someone posted a link here before i think

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

I had a non-hunter (or shooter) put down my neck lamping was illegal without a licence. I said no think your on about deer. Nope he wouldnt budge.
Its legal. Someone posted a link here before i think

Lamping of VERMIN is legal; on foot.

It's a grey area if deer reside in same area as they may try and do you on the disturbance of game, or using a lamp to daze or dazzle game.

I gave up on lamping for that reason. Too many poxy deer in my fox shooting:D

patsat

http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

Scroll down to the section on Lamping Foxes - The legal position

It pretty much covers everything!;)

meathstevie

landkeeper wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant .
i was having a chat with a garda the other day and he touched on the subjetc of lamping foxes and rabbits and that it was going to be clamped down on in the near future , he was pretty adamant that it's illegal and quoted said piece of legislation all i can find on line is a synopsis of it

Tell that Garda to go and read his copy Wildlife Acts again and come back to you...

meathstevie

jimbrowning wrote: »

i saw somwhere that it is legal to lamp from your jeep/car on a public road. it is not legal however to shoot from a public road. i think the law is 100ft from and shoot away from the road. i,l see if i can find it again.
so going by that, it is legal to shoot fox and rabbit inder a lamp

As far as I know there's no distances from roads for discharging firearms specified in Irish law. To the best of my knowledge you're not allowed to shoot from and accross public roads and places.

Also it is not illegal to shine a spotlight from the public road into a field although you should keep in mind that this does not include an entitlement to be a nuisance to other road users.

The UK has legislation specifying 60 feet from the center of a road for shooting but as far as I know Ireland has no specified distance.

For starters if everyone used their common sense and good judgement you wouldn't even need legislation specifying distances etc.

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Lamping of VERMIN is legal; on foot.

It's a grey area if deer reside in same area as they may try and do you on the disturbance of game, or using a lamp to daze or dazzle game.

I gave up on lamping for that reason. Too many poxy deer in my fox shooting:D

I said he must be thinking of deer. As you need a sec 42 for that. You dont need one for foxes.

cbrjohnthou

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Lamping of VERMIN is legal; on foot.

It's a grey area if deer reside in same area as they may try and do you on the disturbance of game, or using a lamp to daze or dazzle game.

I gave up on lamping for that reason. Too many poxy deer in my fox shooting:D

HEY!!!! watch it, there's nothin poxy about deer, ya bolix:D

jimbrowning

meathstevie wrote: »

As far as I know there's no distances from roads for discharging firearms specified in Irish law. To the best of my knowledge you're not allowed to shoot from and accross public roads and places.

Also it is not illegal to shine a spotlight from the public road into a field although you should keep in mind that this does not include an entitlement to be a nuisance to other road users.

The UK has legislation specifying 60 feet from the center of a road for shooting but as far as I know Ireland has no specified distance.

For starters if everyone used their common sense and good judgement you wouldn't even need legislation specifying distances etc.

its the same here, just looked it up on the NARGC site. its 60ft from road.
patsat has a link above, scrole down. theres a hole sec on lamping fox and rabbit

Tackleberrywho

shank1 wrote: »

HEY!!!! watch it, there's nothin poxy about deer, ya bolix:D

well it's true, they are always there when I go for a bird or a fox and vice versa

Typically Irish

DEER EAT OUT OF THE NEIGHBORS RING FEEDER IN HIS YARD!
poxy feckers :D

cbrjohnthou

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

well it's true, they are always there when I go for a bird or a fox and vice versa

Typically Irish

DEER EAT OUT OF THE NEIGHBORS RING FEEDER IN HIS YARD!
poxy feckers :D

Well you know what to do then horse......... hide in the jaysus ring feeder;):D.

johngalway

Tightening up on the poaching of deer by night makes sense.

Yet, LK says his Garda mentioned vermin. I still reckon the source is not reliable. (The source being the Garda, not LK).

fodda

Is it not 60 meters from the road and to the judges discression from a house if complaints are made.?

Also is it only legal to shine lamp onto land you have permission to do so, meaning you dont have permission to search other peoples land?

jimbrowning

think its 60ft, so about 20 mts. is it not possable that the gard is maybe an anti or is just talkin through his bumhole:o

landkeeper

bum hole maybe no he's not anti ,quite the opposite in fact
as far as i'm concerned the nargc page clears it up

Simo Hayha

landkeeper wrote: »

bum hole maybe no he's not anti ,quite the opposite in fact
as far as i'm concerned the nargc page clears it up

Are you sure he was talking about lamping and not about dogging

landkeeper

:Dno i think that'll probably be next on gormless's list of things to abolish also probably illegal within 60ft of the road if truth be told

ivanthehunter

fodda wrote: »

Is it not 60 meters from the road and to the judges discression from a house if complaints are made.?

Also is it only legal to shine lamp onto land you have permission to do so, meaning you dont have permission to search other peoples land?

hay hay---- i can shine a light where ever i want! as long as its not causing hassle or disturbing anyone.:mad: And i'm not even going to ask you to show me legislation on that one..

It will be soon illegal to own a gun or to eat wild food, its the fault of Agenda 21. Yep its on our door-step thanks to UN controlled areas of special interest.

cbrjohnthou

landkeeper wrote: »

:Dno i think that'll probably be next on gormless's list of things to abolish also probably illegal within 60ft of the road if truth be told

Thats me ****ed so :D:D....... pardon the pun:)

Dusty87

ivanthehunter wrote: »

hay hay---- i can shine a light where ever i want! as long as its not causing hassle or disturbing anyone.:mad: And i'm not even going to ask you to show me legislation on that one..

It will be soon illegal to own a gun or to eat wild food, its the fault of Agenda 21. Yep its on our door-step thanks to UN controlled areas of special interest.

Someone posted here before Ivan about someone being prosecuted for shining a lamp onto coillte land. They didnt have firearms. Do you know anything about that? Seems odd to be prosecuted just for shining a lamp but maybe there was more to it.

landkeeper

shank1 wrote: »

Thats me ****ed so :D:D....... pardon the pun:)

or not as the case may be

ivanthehunter

This 60ft thing has become a bit of a myth..

Where is it wrote within statute law?????

Its wrote in the NARGC web site somewhere but if this is its only location then its not legally binding in the ROI.

We have rules that prohibit firearm discharge from a public road and thats that... If you shoot from a road then your acting illegally and if you step off the road your legal.... End of

ivanthehunter

Dusty87 wrote: »

Someone posted here before Ivan about someone being prosecuted for shining a lamp onto coillte land. They didn't have firearms. Do you know anything about that? Seems odd to be prosecuted just for shining a lamp but maybe there was more to it.

Well there are laws that prohibit disturbance of "nesting sites" of species ,but its a stretch of the probverbal....

If such a law exists then its a new one on me!

Since i realised i had an opposable digit I've been shining torches into fields in search of wildlife. I always have a torch in the car just for taking a look!:)

Too many rules.... time for the birth of the second republic before it all goes pear shaped.. sh1t i'm too late..

locum-motion

meathstevie wrote: »

As far as I know there's no distances from roads for discharging firearms specified in Irish law...

A direct quote from the lamping section of the NARGC site linked to above:
"However, please note that while it is not illegal to lamp a fox or rabbit from a public road for the purposes of shooting, it most definitely is illegal to shoot from a road. This has always been the case and this distinction needs to be emphasised here. The shot should be taken from inside the field and then at a distance of not less than 60 feet (measured in meters now) from the road and shooting away from the direction of the road. Legally, lamping and shooting are two distinctly different acts."

No offence to you intended here, Stevie, but if the NARGC say it's black, and you say it's white, I think I'll believe it to be black.

BornToKill

meathstevie wrote: »

As far as I know there's no distances from roads for discharging firearms specified in Irish law ...

The UK has legislation specifying 60 feet from the center of a road for shooting but as far as I know Ireland has no specified distance.

ivanthehunter wrote: »

This 60ft thing has become a bit of a myth.. Where is it wrote within statute law?????

Its wrote in the NARGC web site somewhere but if this is its only location then its not legally binding in the ROI.

We have rules that prohibit firearm discharge from a public road and thats that... If you shoot from a road then your acting illegally and if you step off the road your legal.... End of

Gentlemen: ignorance, as they say, is no defence in the eyes of the law.

The Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 prohibits discharge of a firearm within 60 feet of a public road. The Law Reform Commission recommended that the distance be amended to 20 metres but I am not aware of this having happened. It's no myth - its in the legislation.

jwshooter

heaven for bit they put there time into stopping crime ,the luthers .

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

Is it not 60 meters from the road and to the judges discression from a house if complaints are made.?

Also is it only legal to shine lamp onto land you have permission to do so, meaning you dont have permission to search other peoples land?

The above would be similar to how I go about things. Though I will lamp land I don't have permission to shoot on with the intention of asking for permission if I see anything before shooting, and only if lamping isn't near a house or may cause disturbance.

I believe a Garda can have a fairly wide interpretation of what a public space is, but I'd guess if it got bad enough to go to court then it depends on the judges interpretation which may be wildly different.

Best to not go that far methinks

BornToKill

landkeeper wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant .
i was having a chat with a garda the other day and he touched on the subjetc of lamping foxes and rabbits and that it was going to be clamped down on in the near future , he was pretty adamant that it's illegal and quoted said piece of legislation all i can find on line is a synopsis of it

The 1976 Act is here. Amended in 2000. A good book on the subject is Henry Comerford, Wildlife Legislation 1976-2000 (Round Hall, Dublin, 2001).

locum-motion

landkeeper wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant...

BornToKill wrote: »

The 1976 Act is here. Amended in 2000. A good book on the subject is Henry Comerford, Wildlife Legislation 1976-2000 (Round Hall, Dublin, 2001).

From BTK's link, Sec 37 prohibits hunting of:
1. woodcock between sunset and sunrise
2. other protected birds (excluding wild ducks and geese) or protected mammals between sunset +1hr and sunrise -1hr.

I think it's section 38 you mean, which prohibits lamping when hunting protected species. It says nothing about vermin, though.

BornToKill

Yes, section 38 of the original 1976 Act which was amended by section 45 of the 2000 Act to include, effectively, infra red optics, etc.

ivanthehunter

BornToKill wrote: »

Gentlemen: ignorance, as they say, is no defence in the eyes of the law.

The Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 prohibits discharge of a firearm within 60 feet of a public road. The Law Reform Commission recommended that the distance be amended to 20 metres but I am not aware of this having happened. It's no myth - its in the legislation.

1851 ffs, no wonder i didn't find anything.. But i'll now attempt to cast my eye over it..:o

BornToKill

You're welcome.

kieran1141

landkeeper wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the wildlife act 1976 section 37 i think it is that is relevant .
i was having a chat with a garda the other day and he touched on the subjetc of lamping foxes and rabbits and that it was going to be clamped down on in the near future , he was pretty adamant that it's illegal and quoted said piece of legislation all i can find on line is a synopsis of it

section 45 of the wildlife (amendment) act 2000 amends section 38 of the 1976 act which applies to the use of lamps,mirrors,dazzling equipment ect.,for the purpose of hunting. section 38 of the 1976 act was substituted by this completely new section, that it will be illegal for anyone to hunt protected wild aniamals or birds. therefore contrary to what some people would believe, and have believed in the past, even people in regulatory positions,,,,,,,,,, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO HUNT BY LAMPING RABBITS OR FOXES,NETHER OF WHITCH ARE PROTECTED AND NO LICENCE IS NEEDED,,,, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO LAMP A FOX OR RABBIT FROM A PUBLIC ROAD FOR THE PURPOSE OF SHOOTING IT,,,,,,,,,,IT MOST DEFINITELY IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT FROM THE ROAD,,, ALL SHOTS HAVE TO BE TAKEN FROM NOT LESS THAN 60FT FROM THE ROAD SHOOTING AWAY FROM THE ROAD, LEGALLY, LAMPING AND SHOOTING ARE TWO DIFFERANT ACTS,,,,,,,,,this was wrote by mr des crofton, director,NARGC, (a practical guide to the wildlife acts 1976 to 2000)

kildare.17hmr

I was also told buy a garda(friend of mine) that lamping rabbits and foxes is illigal, i have just printed out that part of the NARGC web site and will be handing it over to him with a smile in the pub on friday night:D

kieran1141

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I was also told buy a garda(friend of mine) that lamping rabbits and foxes is illigal, i have just printed out that part of the NARGC web site and will be handing it over to him with a smile in the pub on friday night:D

was told by a garda that you should have permission from farmer of any land you shine lamp into, so mabey some of it is made up as they go along, just had a lad here telling me that on the radio this morning green party trying to get a ban on deer stalking this year want to take all permits back,,,,,,it just gets better......

kildare.17hmr

yeah you would imagine the people being paid to enforce the law might know it a bit better;) like you said seems alot is made up as they go along! i think the less said about the greens the better, think(hope) they'll be gone soon enough:)

kieran1141

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

yeah you would imagine the people being paid to enforce the law might know it a bit better;) like you said seems alot is made up as they go along! i think the less said about the greens the better, think(hope) they'll be gone soon enough:)

greens burning there own bridges, better off getting on with the garda in your own area i have 223 and 243 moderators on both with permission of course, but thank god never have any hassel for the law, but i always know where iam going and i be careful where i fire,know some farmers that dont like lamping so i stay away, have over 200 foxes shot last year and this year, lot of foxes around north tipp.

johngalway

kieran1141 wrote: »

better off getting on with the garda in your own area

If you can, then very very true.

kieran1141

johngalway wrote: »

If you can, then very very true.

not always easy to do, but in my case iam lucky have no hassle, have never been pulled out lamping in 25 years, always try to keep out of the way, hope all this s**t blows over we have bigger problems in the country at the moment, there will be a lot more people hunting for the pot in hard time,,,,

Tackleberrywho

kieran1141 wrote: »

not always easy to do, but in my case iam lucky have no hassle, have never been pulled out lamping in 25 years, always try to keep out of the way, hope all this s**t blows over we have bigger problems in the country at the moment, there will be a lot more people hunting for the pot in hard time,,,,

My Great grand parents all survived the famine as they lived on bunnies and the like.
They were lucky as there was a lot of bunnies in the area and they were good at getting them.

I believe hunting for food is a right, a basic human right.

Many others would differ, especially Veggies, my sister being one of them So I get to see both sides of the spectrum

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

My Great grand parents all survived the famine as they lived on bunnies and the like.
They were lucky as there was a lot of bunnies in the area and they were good at getting them.

I believe hunting for food is a right, a basic human right.

Many others would differ, especially Veggies, my sister being one of them So I get to see both sides of the spectrum

Your great grandparents?. Your not that ould tack:D

kieran1141

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

My Great grand parents all survived the famine as they lived on bunnies and the like.
They were lucky as there was a lot of bunnies in the area and they were good at getting them.

I believe hunting for food is a right, a basic human right.

Many others would differ, especially Veggies, my sister being one of them So I get to see both sides of the spectrum

i gave the first 20 years of my life living of the land rabbits ,fish, pheasant and ducks, my mother cooked everything with 10 kids you had to, i think that if a farmer gives you permission to shoot his or her lands that should be the end of story, everything i shoot or catch i have people to give them to and would never shoot anything that someone would not eat, apart from foxes of course, 2 of us released 80 birds last year and onely shot 37 but thats fair let 12 on one farm and onely shot 2.

Dusty87

kieran1141 wrote: »

i gave the first 20 years of my life living of the land rabbits ,fish, pheasant and ducks, my mother cooked everything with 10 kids you had to, i think that if a farmer gives you permission to shoot his or her lands that should be the end of story, everything i shoot or catch i have people to give them to and would never shoot anything that someone would not eat, apart from foxes of course, 2 of us released 80 birds last year and onely shot 37 but thats fair let 12 on one farm and onely shot 2.

I read in sporting gun that a forty per cent return isnt bad, given the ones that will stray, get knocked down, eaten by foxes etc.

kieran1141

Dusty87 wrote: »

I read in sporting gun that a forty per cent return isnt bad, given the ones that will stray, get knocked down, eaten by foxes etc.

i be happy enough with that, released 120 the year before shot 47,whitch i realy enjoyed because my 2 springer bitches were onely 11 months old at start of the season, got a lot of mallard and teal on lough derg, had 7 gun up to this year got rid of 2 just have the remington .223 vls, remington .243 BDL, browning ultra trap plus, beretta 687 silverpigeon sporter, and new caesar guerini tempio light, love my guns, would like a s/s. got rid of 2 auto beretta urika2 and 391.

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

Your great grandparents?. Your not that ould tack:D

My Grandad was born in 1910 on my Da's side, and his day was very old when he was born. My Grandads da married late in life to a woman half his age (fair dues )
My grandads family were the famine generation.

My granny told us of how they lived on rabbits, fish, and they knew which mushrooms were safe and which were coshapooks

The Green party iof they were true to their ethos would encourage living off the land as nature intended.;)

But we are going on a tangent here.:D:D

LAMPING IS LEGAL IF DONE PROPERLY