Atlantis

nyarlothothep

I have a crazy theory, you know the tales of when the oceans drunk Atlantis, well maybe they came from time travellers who were talking about America in the near future to natives in the past?

fontanalis

Didn't NASA have a Space Shuttle called Atlantis?

nyarlothothep

Yeah, maybe the old ones, were really time travellers. Apparently there is research into time travel with the z machine and all that, well its more for ftl travel but travelling through time might also be a derivative application. So basically it could be possible that the atlanteans are temporal refugees ,americans from the future that went to our distant past with some tech and talked about how america was geographically destroyed through natural disasters, being of course the product of global warming. Hence the atlantis/america we're talking about is actually a future america that got submerged due to the end result of an early global warming phase we're experiencing now.

Dude..time doesn't exist...time travel is never gonna/has never happen/ed..whatever about the possibility of a previous advanced civilisation existing or whatever, time travel is a fabrication of science fiction..

espinolman

Time is circular .

nyarlothothep

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..time doesn't exist...time travel is never gonna/has never happen/ed..whatever about the possibility of a previous advanced civilisation existing or whatever, time travel is a fabrication of science fiction..

how do you know it will never happen? With out limited undestanding of the universe we can say that in our experience it is probable that it can never happen, which could mean that it may not occur but it certainly isn't definate that it is impossible, only that we think it could be.

kasper

if time travel was to exist ,it would exist always

fontanalis

espinolman wrote: »

Time is circular .

Are events?

espinolman

fontanalis wrote: »

Are events?

Yes , its cyclic , everything that has happened has happened before and will happen again , it just keeps going around in circles forever .

All of history has happened before , thats why some people think they can see the future , they are really looking at the past , people like Nostradamus .

Torakx

espinolman wrote: »

Yes , its cyclic , everything that has happened has happened before and will happen again , it just keeps going around in circles forever .

All of history has happened before , thats why some people think they can see the future , they are really looking at the past , people like Nostradamus .

Thats a very interesting theory.I have often wondered about the whole idea of time going in circles.
Do you have any links for me to read more about that idea?

Penn

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..time doesn't exist...time travel is never gonna/has never happen/ed..whatever about the possibility of a previous advanced civilisation existing or whatever, time travel is a fabrication of science fiction..

Agreed. It is not possible for time travel to occur. Even if it could work in theory, there are far too many variables which could not be quantified.

For example, if you were in Dublin and wanted to time travel back 50 years, you have to take into account where you suddenly land. If you tried to land at the exact same spot 50 years in the past, what if something is there? A passing car, a different building, a wall. You're suddenly materialising out of thin air. A butterfly in the wrong place could end up in your brain.

Then you also have to take into account the fact that the Earth is both spinning and moving around the Sun. You'd have to calculate EXACTLY where the planet was for the time you want to go back too. Again, you could materialise in empty space.

Then of course there's all the stuff about creating paradoxes which I won't go into

espinolman wrote: »

Yes , its cyclic , everything that has happened has happened before and will happen again , it just keeps going around in circles forever .

All of history has happened before , thats why some people think they can see the future , they are really looking at the past , people like Nostradamus .

So if everything has happened before, then Nostradamus could see the future last time it happened, which means he could see the future the first time it happened, meaning he couldn't be seeing the past of the first time it happened. Meaning it doesn't make sense.

espinolman

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

So if everything has happened before, then Nostradamus could see the future last time it happened, which means he could see the future the first time it happened, meaning he couldn't be seeing the past of the first time it happened. Meaning it doesn't make sense.

How could there be a first time if time is circular , you are presuming time is linear .

Think about a wheel , how could the wheel be linear , the wheel spins but it does not spin in a straight line , there is no beginning or end .

Everything in the universe spins , the planets , galaxies and even time , of course saying in the universe is a contradiction as 'in' presumes the universe is finite .

nyarlothothep

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Agreed. It is not possible for time travel to occur. Even if it could work in theory, there are far too many variables which could not be quantified.

For example, if you were in Dublin and wanted to time travel back 50 years, you have to take into account where you suddenly land. If you tried to land at the exact same spot 50 years in the past, what if something is there? A passing car, a different building, a wall. You're suddenly materialising out of thin air. A butterfly in the wrong place could end up in your brain.

Then you also have to take into account the fact that the Earth is both spinning and moving around the Sun. You'd have to calculate EXACTLY where the planet was for the time you want to go back too. Again, you could materialise in empty space.

Then of course there's all the stuff about creating paradoxes which I won't go into



So if everything has happened before, then Nostradamus could see the future last time it happened, which means he could see the future the first time it happened, meaning he couldn't be seeing the past of the first time it happened. Meaning it doesn't make sense.

Not so, you could use a ship to travel through time in deep space and just land on earth. There is a region of the universe which contains nothing, actually nothing, time travellers could use this as their runway so to speak. Under the Everett many worlds interpretation such paradoxes don't occur, another universe simply branches off from the existing one. In addition it is possible to warp space to the extent that when you travel around the curvature you end up back where you started and back in time. However you can't travel further back than the point at which you began warping space time.

Penn

espinolman wrote: »

How could there be a first time if time is circular , you are presuming time is linear .

Think about a wheel , how could the wheel be linear , the wheel spins but it does not spin in a straight line , there is no beginning or end .

But you said:

All of history has happened before , thats why some people think they can see the future , they are really looking at the past , people like Nostradamus .

For someone like Nostradamus to be looking at the past (but seeing it as the future), then time HAS to be linear

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Not so, you could use a ship to travel through time in deep space and just land on earth. There is a region of the universe which contains nothing, actually nothing, time travellers could use this as their runway so to speak. Under the Everett many worlds interpretation such paradoxes don't occur, another universe simply branches off from the existing one. In addition it is possible to warp space to the extent that when you travel around the curvature you end up back where you started and back in time. However you can't travel further back than the point at which you began warping space time.

But it isn't. If it was, then it HAS happened in the future. While the theory of this thread is that Americans from the future came back in time, came back too far and built Atlantis which was then destroyed.

However, if time travel was possible through the method you're explaining, then surely someone from further in the future could also come back. Which means people for the rest of time could presumably use that method. So if Future Americans came back and built Atlantis, why haven't Future Future Americans come to this time? Or 20 years ago. Or 100 years ago?

If it was possible for Time Travel to happen, the Time Travel HAS happened, and IS happening

nyarlothothep

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

But you said:


For someone like Nostradamus to be looking at the past (but seeing it as the future), then time HAS to be linear




But it isn't. If it was, then it HAS happened in the future. While the theory of this thread is that Americans from the future came back in time, came back too far and built Atlantis which was then destroyed.

However, if time travel was possible through the method you're explaining, then surely someone from further in the future could also come back. Which means people for the rest of time could presumably use that method. So if Future Americans came back and built Atlantis, why haven't Future Future Americans come to this time? Or 20 years ago. Or 100 years ago?

If it was possible for Time Travel to happen, the Time Travel HAS happened, and IS happening

thats just one method which shows its not completely impossible. I don't think the future Americans employed this, I think the method they used was more sophisticated. In any case its not in a time travellers interest to disclose their position, they'd get captured and researched on for sure.

Penn

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I don't think the future Americans employed this, I think the method they used was more sophisticated.

But again, if these Future Americans used a sophisticated method, then Future Future Americans (Americans even further in the future) could have used an even more sophisticated method. And as time goes on, more and more future people would be travelling back in time having discovered the method that eventually, some would have to visit our time

nyarlothothep wrote: »

In any case its not in a time travellers interest to disclose their position, they'd get captured and researched on for sure.

Then what would be their reason for coming back? They can't have come back for research, because by building Atlantis, they would have changed the past rather than researching it. But (and this is going by the theory that Atlantis exists which I don't believe, but I won't argue about as it's a topic I know very little about (as opposed to time travel )), if Atlantis existed, then the people in the future would know it existed. By going back in time and constructing Atlantis themselves for whatever reason, they will have created a Predestination Paradox

TalkieWalkie

Time travel has existed for a long time. If you wonder; "why hasnt man come back in time to correct things...?" it's because he cant correct things. The future is not set out, we create the future as we exist by taking paths, using options and alternative routes. It's not set in stone, it branches out like a tree.

Penn

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Time travel has existed for a long time. If you wonder; "why hasnt man come back in time to correct things...?" it's because he cant correct things. The future is not set out, we create the future as we exist by taking paths, using options and alternative routes. It's not set in stone, it branches out like a tree.

But that's the future. I agree, the future is not set in stone. Choices and decisions we all make on a daily basis affect our futures and the sometimes the futures of those around us.

But time travel into the past can affect the future because for them, our future has already happened.

TalkieWalkie

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

But that's the future. I agree, the future is not set in stone. Choices and decisions we all make on a daily basis affect our futures and the sometimes the futures of those around us.

But time travel into the past can affect the future because for them, our future has already happened.

Something doesnt add up here :eek:

Pot Noodle =

http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/tara/tara-atlantis.php

Hy-Brazil anyone

Penn

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Something doesnt add up here :eek:

For THEM, our future has happened, because it's already part of their past. For example, if something large were to happen next year, and some time travellers came back to warn us about it, they'll know about it because it happened in their past. But it hasn't happened to us yet because it's in our future

Torakx

Pot wrote:

http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/tara/tara-atlantis.php

Hy-Brazil anyone

Thats pretty interesting about the Island off of Galway.
I wonder if it has been verified in the last 7 years.

Pot Noodle =

Dont know about that but it is on a lot of old maps

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..time doesn't exist...time travel is never gonna/has never happen/ed..whatever about the possibility of a previous advanced civilisation existing or whatever, time travel is a fabrication of science fiction..

Backwards time travel would appear impossible. Forwards is not, if your advanced enough. And people saying time travel is impossible because humans from the future would have travelled back by now, thats stupidly ignorant. What makes people think just because humans cant do it, then nobody/nothing else can? The way things are, mankind will be lucky to be around in a couple of hundred years, maybe THATS why future humans havnt come back (if it is at all possible).

Torakx

Maybe the wheel makes a full turn after 2012 and time resets in this dimension leaving us without a chance to ever time travel until the next time around
Oh those mayans are causing so much speculation lol

espinolman

Because time is circular ,i believe it is possible to travel through time in a circular spinning machine , the spin of the machine has to catch up with the spin rate of time and then you can go to anytime you want , i think . :rolleyes:s

thecommander

fontanalis wrote: »

Didn't NASA have a Space Shuttle called Atlantis?

They do. Still in operation (kinda). Named after a science research boat.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..time doesn't exist...time travel is never gonna/has never happen/ed..whatever about the possibility of a previous advanced civilisation existing or whatever, time travel is a fabrication of science fiction..

Eh yes time travel does exist. Go at any great speed and relative to an observer you are traveling forward in time. Go close to the speed of light and you will travel very quickly forward in time. The close you get the faster forward you will go. So traveling into the future doable. Indeed the apollo guys proved this as expected their atomic clocks ran faster than synchronised ones on earth. Going back in time is the issue. What we know currently in physics you would have to break the speed of light to do it and then you run into e=mc2. Lets say you did find a way, then you're running into breaking causality. Not pretty and would screw with all the physics we can so far imagine. Causality seems to be a fundamental part of the universe. It could be a self governing repair mechanism too? So if I build a machine capable of traveling backwards and then travel back and kill myself before I leave, bit of an old paradox there. That paradox would run all the way down to the quantum information level, so backward travel it seems to me would always prevent itself from happening. Unless there exists other universes with different timelines, but I personally dont buy that.

As for time existing itself? I dunno. I think we perceive it as existing and can measure it, but I would look at the universe as a whole. If you could stand outside it IMHO you would observe all the information, every quantum state that ever was, is and will be as a single entity. Kinda like a big novel sitting closed on a table. All the information, the story from start to finish(the butler did it) would be contained within. But to the reader that opens the book and lives within its pages they can only turn the pages one at a time. They can remember all the previous twists and turns and may predict the next plot twist, but must turn the page to find out for sure. They can turn the pages more quickly but cant revisit earlier ones, except through memory. Only the "author" can know the whole story. But we're getting metaphysical there

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh yes time travel does exist. Go at any great speed and relative to an observer you are traveling forward in time. Go close to the speed of light and you will travel very quickly forward in time. The close you get the faster forward you will go. So traveling into the future doable. Indeed the apollo guys proved this as expected their atomic clocks ran faster than synchronised ones on earth. Going back in time is the issue. What we know currently in physics you would have to break the speed of light to do it and then you run into e=mc2. Lets say you did find a way, then you're running into breaking causality. Not pretty and would screw with all the physics we can so far imagine. Causality seems to be a fundamental part of the universe. It could be a self governing repair mechanism too? So if I build a machine capable of traveling backwards and then travel back and kill myself before I leave, bit of an old paradox there. That paradox would run all the way down to the quantum information level, so backward travel it seems to me would always prevent itself from happening. Unless there exists other universes with different timelines, but I personally dont buy that.

As for time existing itself? I dunno. I think we perceive it as existing and can measure it, but I would look at the universe as a whole. If you could stand outside it IMHO you would observe all the information, every quantum state that ever was, is and will be as a single entity. Kinda like a big novel sitting closed on a table. All the information, the story from start to finish(the butler did it) would be contained within. But to the reader that opens the book and lives within its pages they can only turn the pages one at a time. They can remember all the previous twists and turns and may predict the next plot twist, but must turn the page to find out for sure. They can turn the pages more quickly but cant revisit earlier ones, except through memory. Only the "author" can know the whole story. But we're getting metaphysical there

Very good post..i was saying time travel in the sense the OP is talking about is a science fiction..the human concept of time is essentially just clocking how many times we've been around the sun..in relation to time travel relative to the observer, well, yes, thats true, but the observer isn't travelling through time..and neither is the traveller, from his perspective..i think it shows the weakness in the concept of time as opposed to saying time travel's possible..it's all relative..you touched on causality, which pretty much puts the lie to the talk of time travel i think..i dunno ,tbh, i've gotten over worrying about time and the universe..i think time is an illusion..there is only ever NOW..the Universe is a fractal, and follows the law of chaos..

The_B_Man

If time is circular, then what about the Big Bang? What part of the wheel is that? Will the universe shrink again and revert back to whatever blobs created the big bang?

Or will we just go from fully developed humans, to single-celled organisms in 1 day? Surely if its cyclical, we'll devolve first and return to apes, then lizards, and fish etc.

however, if we go from fully formed humans, to lumps of goo in one day, then time is not cyclical, its linear, and just goes from the end of the line back to the start. assuming the opinions of the "amateur quantum physicists" on here are actually true.

Most likely, time is on a straight line. I know that "theory" pretty much debunks any other interesting CT about Nostrodamus or The Matrix and psychics looking forwards and backwards, but just coz its "boring" and obvious doesnt mean it has to be written off in favour of fun time travellers and ancient civilisations!

Torakx

Im not sure about time even existing itself apart from an idea man has thought up for measuring ..erm causality?
Those experiments with the clocks in orbiting space craft showed that there was a slight difference in measurement.But was that to do with magnetics or time itself should it exist.
Say the astronauts spend a very long time in space like most of their lives.Im guessing they will have aged less?
Is this due to the speed they are moving at or something else? if so how do we prove it?
i suppose the clock shows it isnt just enviornmental unless something like magnetics or maybe Orgone (lol) effects clocks.

About Atlantis im sure it did exist a very long time ago.Just another civilisation probably done in by the flood.
Perhaps it is the original soddom and gomorrah or one of the two ^^ .. actually wasnt salt mentioned n relation to them also as they were being destroyed by sulphur from heaven..Hmm i dunno but anyway....
Splicing animals and humans(or ET's) together to make the perfect slave race and decided the first creation was wrong and flooded the earth somehow using the "body of water that surrounded the circle of the earth" (Genesis quote )

Wibbs

I still go with the theory that atlantis was the island of minoan santorini that blew up in a massive volcanic explosion. The details are very similar. Major maritime nation, a very wealthy nation, a circular island with an navigable sea within and an island in the center, the red, black and white rocks that made up atlantis, majorly advanced technological civilisation(hot and cold running water, sanitation system, 2,3 and 4 story housing, etc). Their veneration of the bull and the bull in their games of bravery, It all fits. Plato just upped the scale for effect and he did so love a morality tale. So the long ago memory of minoan santorini going bang, the biggest bang in human history. A bang that affected that whole area of the mediterranean, caused huge tidal waves, crippled and ultimately doomed the minoans. A bang that may even be linked with the exodus mentioned in the old testament(pillar of smoke by day, pillar of fire, nile turning red, fire raining from the sky, even the parting of the red sea).

The_B_Man

The_B_Man wrote: »

If time is circular, then what about the Big Bang? What part of the wheel is that? Will the universe shrink again and revert back to whatever blobs created the big bang?

Or will we just go from fully developed humans, to single-celled organisms in 1 day? Surely if its cyclical, we'll devolve first and return to apes, then lizards, and fish etc.

however, if we go from fully formed humans, to lumps of goo in one day, then time is not cyclical, its linear, and just goes from the end of the line back to the start. assuming the opinions of the "amateur quantum physicists" on here are actually true.

Most likely, time is on a straight line. I know that "theory" pretty much debunks any other interesting CT about Nostrodamus or The Matrix and psychics looking forwards and backwards, but just coz its "boring" and obvious doesnt mean it has to be written off in favour of fun time travellers and ancient civilisations!

Hawking came up with the big bang as a function of time..he presumed time was linear, and as he saw the universse expanding he figured it has expanded from a point..Time isn't circular, but elements of the universe are cyclical..The universe just exists, and **** just happens..now..

fontanalis

Wibbs wrote: »

I still go with the theory that atlantis was the island of minoan santorini that blew up in a massive volcanic explosion. The details are very similar. Major maritime nation, a very wealthy nation, a circular island with an navigable sea within and an island in the center, the red, black and white rocks that made up atlantis, majorly advanced technological civilisation(hot and cold running water, sanitation system, 2,3 and 4 story housing, etc). Their veneration of the bull and the bull in their games of bravery, It all fits. Plato just upped the scale for effect and he did so love a morality tale. So the long ago memory of minoan santorini going bang, the biggest bang in human history. A bang that affected that whole area of the mediterranean, caused huge tidal waves, crippled and ultimately doomed the minoans. A bang that may even be linked with the exodus mentioned in the old testament(pillar of smoke by day, pillar of fire, nile turning red, fire raining from the sky, even the parting of the red sea).

Saw a show about that, but hasn't it been established that Red Sea is a misinterpretation of Reed Sea?

Wibbs

Could well be, the only issue Ive had with that interpretation is that red and reed might be easy to mixup in english, but not in hebrew.

humanji

Wibbs wrote: »

Could well be, the only issue Ive had with that interpretation is that red and reed might be easy to mixup in english, but not in hebrew.

I don't think it's the word red that's mistranslated, but the name of the red sea, which I think is Yam Suph or something like that. I think it has a couple of meanings.

mysterious

Deleted User wrote: »

Hawking came up with the big bang as a function of time..he presumed time was linear, and as he saw the universse expanding he figured it has expanded from a point..Time isn't circular, but elements of the universe are cyclical..The universe just exists, and **** just happens..now..

Hawkings for the most part is dis information, again mainstream science for mainstream listeners. He's there for that purpose, showing others a microcosmic part of the reality. But it's much bigger than he could ever know.

thecommander

mysterious wrote: »

Hawkings for the most part is dis information

Decided by you no doubt. At least he puts forward a logical argument.

mysterious

thecommander wrote: »

Decided by you no doubt. At least he puts forward a logical argument.

rofl A logic argument can't explain the universe:rolleyes::D

That's why he's part of the disinformation.:D Oh god my head hurts.

PirateShampoo

mysterious wrote: »

rofl A logic argument can't explain the universe:rolleyes::D

That's why he's part of the disinformation.:D Oh god my head hurts.

Dont think he has ever explianed the Universe. How is he dis info?

fontanalis

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Dont think he has ever explianed the Universe. How is he dis info?

It's yoof talk.
Der is dis info out dere, innit

Wibbs

fontanalis wrote: »

It's yoof talk.
Der is dis info out dere, innit

In fairness one and all that's funny. In the irish CT forum dis info may have more than one meaning

FWIW I have some issues with the hawking lad myself. And physics in general at the moment. We're kinda stagnant in a way. Cool stuff coming out but we need another newton/einstein to screw with all our heads.

Moriarty

mysterious wrote: »

Hawkings for the most part is dis information, again mainstream science for mainstream listeners. He's there for that purpose, showing others a microcosmic part of the reality. But it's much bigger than he could ever know.

What exactly - and specifically - has he said that you disagree with?

BuilderPlumber

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I have a crazy theory, you know the tales of when the oceans drunk Atlantis, well maybe they came from time travellers who were talking about America in the near future to natives in the past?

I would reckon this to be half right. I don't believe in time travel but do believe that Atlantis was the old name for America. Why?

The Romans, Greeks, Phoenicians, Persians, Arabs, Chinese, and other ancient civilisations were very advanced and had travelled great distances. Another example is that Madagascar off East Africa is ethnically related to Malaysia and Indonesia thousands of miles away. Vikings later managed the same thing and go to what is now New Foundland and St Brendan was also supposed to have gone to what is now America. With Iceland and Greenland known for years before America proper, it all implies that there was at least a vague idea that there was other lands out there. Was Christopher Columbus more in the know to where he was going than admitted? Did the pope at the time know of this.

Ancient civilisations appear to be aware of a continent opposite Europe and named the ocean between the two after it. Now, could it be that trade existed between the two continents. The same advanced civilisations existed in America as Europe with perhaps all too coincidental similarities to the European ones. Many people consider Atlantis to be South America and likened the land there (Atlantis) to Bolivia.

The evidence to me points to a knowledge of the existence of a land mass across the Atlantic meaning contact between Europeans and native Americans going back 1000s of years. The fact that it got "flooded" implies a similar reference to events as the biblical deluge. Indeed, there was a bad earthquake and tsunami in ancient times off the South American northern coastline.

Helpneeded86

Confirmed

Hootanany

Wibbs wrote: »

I still go with the theory that atlantis was the island of minoan santorini that blew up in a massive volcanic explosion. The details are very similar. Major maritime nation, a very wealthy nation, a circular island with an navigable sea within and an island in the center, the red, black and white rocks that made up atlantis, majorly advanced technological civilisation(hot and cold running water, sanitation system, 2,3 and 4 story housing, etc). Their veneration of the bull and the bull in their games of bravery, It all fits. Plato just upped the scale for effect and he did so love a morality tale. So the long ago memory of minoan santorini going bang, the biggest bang in human history. A bang that affected that whole area of the mediterranean, caused huge tidal waves, crippled and ultimately doomed the minoans. A bang that may even be linked with the exodus mentioned in the old testament(pillar of smoke by day, pillar of fire, nile turning red, fire raining from the sky, even the parting of the red sea).

Also it was said that the Sun set in a different place before this flood.
Also a very bright tar like comet was in the sky at that time.
So combined with the eruption and the comet gravitation it caused a great tsami hence the the great flood. Sorry for my spelling.

Tzar Chasm

Hootanany wrote: »

Also it was said that the Sun set in a different place before this flood.

this sun setting in a different place concept, got any links to that?
I remember reading a theory about plate shifting that would kinda tie into that

Also a very bright tar like comet was in the sky at that time.
So combined with the eruption and the comet gravitation it caused a great tsami hence the the great flood. Sorry for my spelling.

Hootanany

http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/4169/1/4169_1688.pdf


Look a Platos works he tells of them as well, will look for more later on.

thiarfearr

The op has said before that he deliberately posts troll threads here with ridiculous hypotheses, I wouldn't be surprised if this was in the same vein

faustino1

thiarfearr wrote: »

The op has said before that he deliberately posts troll threads here with ridiculous hypotheses, I wouldn't be surprised if this was in the same vein

Yeah...Time Travel is impossible

But Marriage at Cana and the Big Bang are absolutely legit.

Both are miracles apparently.

thiarfearr

faustino1 wrote: »

Yeah...Time Travel is impossible

But Marriage at Cana and the Big Bang are absolutely legit.

Both are miracles apparently.

Who said that, and whats it got to do with how plausible the ops theory is?