The Sport of Airsoft *Mod Warning Post 161

coys

Ok Firstly let me begin by saying that this is me venting/thinking out loud, and is by no means any form of charachter assasinations or sweeping generalisations.

Now forgive me for thinking this but I believed that Airsoft is a combat simulation sport which was invented as a more realistic version of paintball. so one thing that gets me Is how people rock up every sat/sun with pouches full of 700-round M4 mags or the AK variant.

Now, any of you that Know me (Hopefully not a lot of ye:p), will know where I usually play. but there is a certain section of the players who do this week in week out, My question is, What is the point of having a combat Simulation sport that essentially turns into a BB throwing competition??, Surely you should go back to paintball??

Also, one thing that is rife in the sport is people Blatantly "fracturing " rules, i.e Blind firing and of course the bane of this sport, non hit taking. On the last 2 occasions that Ive played, I've witnessed people blatantly blind firing after being told the rules,

and as for non-hit taking, People repeatedly turning up in their "superman Pyjamas" and BB's bouncing off them, now I understand that there is always the possibility that the BB's are not reaching their target etc but when I see a person taking fire from 3 seperate angles and being hit from several shots just beggars belief and I find myself just asking , Why??

</Rant>

Airsoft Reloded

coys wrote: »

Ok Firstly let me begin by saying that this is me venting/thinking out loud, and is by no means any form of charachter assasinations or sweeping generalisations.

Now forgive me for thinking this but I believed that Airsoft is a combat simulation sport which was invented as a more realistic version of paintball. so one thing that gets me Is how people rock up every sat/sun with pouches full of 700-round M4 mags or the AK variant.

Now, any of you that Know me (Hopefully not a lot of ye:p), will know where I usually play. but there is a certain section of the players who do this week in week out, My question is, What is the point of having a combat Simulation sport that essentially turns into a BB throwing competition??, Surely you should go back to paintball??

Also, one thing that is rife in the sport is people Blatantly "fracturing " rules, i.e Blind firing and of course the bane of this sport, non hit taking. On the last 2 occasions that Ive played, I've witnessed people blatantly blind firing after being told the rules,

and as for non-hit taking, People repeatedly turning up in their "superman Pyjamas" and BB's bouncing off them, now I understand that there is always the possibility that the BB's are not reaching their target etc but when I see a person taking fire from 3 seperate angles and being hit from several shots just beggars belief and I find myself just asking , Why??

</Rant>

Dude, this has been talked to death. Its a b*tch but hay!

Markom5a

Play milsim.........problem solved

Damo 2k9

And week in week out topics come up on boards about this
Wed all love to play against honest players every single time we go out to skirmish, it happens most of the time (thank god :P) but theres always 1, wed also all love to play limited ammo games all day long but it aint gonna happen in every place you go to skirmish

gerrowadat

coys wrote: »

Ok Firstly let me begin by saying that this is me venting/thinking out loud, and is by no means any form of charachter assasinations or sweeping generalisations.

Now forgive me for thinking this but I believed that Airsoft is a combat simulation sport which was invented as a more realistic version of paintball. so one thing that gets me Is how people rock up every sat/sun with pouches full of 700-round M4 mags or the AK variant.

Now, any of you that Know me (Hopefully not a lot of ye:p), will know where I usually play. but there is a certain section of the players who do this week in week out, My question is, What is the point of having a combat Simulation sport that essentially turns into a BB throwing competition??, Surely you should go back to paintball??

Also, one thing that is rife in the sport is people Blatantly "fracturing " rules, i.e Blind firing and of course the bane of this sport, non hit taking. On the last 2 occasions that Ive played, I've witnessed people blatantly blind firing after being told the rules,

and as for non-hit taking, People repeatedly turning up in their "superman Pyjamas" and BB's bouncing off them, now I understand that there is always the possibility that the BB's are not reaching their target etc but when I see a person taking fire from 3 seperate angles and being hit from several shots just beggars belief and I find myself just asking , Why??

</Rant>

This is why a lot of players (myself included) don't bother with the bigger sites on the weekend. It's too big a gamble that you'll have a **** day. I mainly just play at larger events where there's a bit of craic and banter as well as the games, or at milsim events with a theme where you can get into it (or evenings, or invite-only stuff). Call it elitist, but I just want to get a good game tbh.

At the weekends, the sites are making their bread and butter by getting the BBS==SKILLZ crowd out, which allows them (if they're a good site) to run the other nights where cash isn't #1 and play comes first.

Damo 2k9

While this thread is up i want to ask you all a question
Do yous mind playing against people with hi caps when your using mid caps? If so why ? :P

fayer

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

While this thread is up i want to ask you all a question
Do yous mind playing against people with hi caps when your using mid caps? If so why ? :P

TBH dosent bother me... to a point. I did call it a day early a fee weeks ago when it was aprox 40 people with high caps and bottles of BB's in the field. HighCaps dont bother me, walls of BB's in the thousands do!

Necron99

for skirmishing well it's simple majority rules, most want to use Hi-caps so Hi-caps at dawn to dusk it is.

thats why we have Milsim

As for non hit takers well I think most of us are blue in the face about it
It's just one of these things that will always plague the sport.

gerrowadat

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

While this thread is up i want to ask you all a question
Do yous mind playing against people with hi caps when your using mid caps? If so why ? :P

Not really. Most hicap users don't realise that you don't empty a hicap on one wind, and if you spend about 30 seconds winding each hicap, that's about 10 seconds more than 2 mag changes takes if you've practiced it a bit. So, hicaps are actually slower than midcaps in a lot of ways, assuming 110rd midcaps.

What does annoy me is the box mags on armalites crowd (although I haven't seen many out lately), and the types who carry bottles of BBs around and lay streams of BBs down in the general direction of where people are.

AUDIE MURPHY

This discussion will go on for years ha, i use high caps (oh the shame of it) because the last thing i want to be doing in the middle of a heavy skirmish is to be changing mags, whats wrong with that, why the attitude of high caps like they are satanic,also i know and have witnessed a lot of elitism in airsoft in ireland and its so wrong and will only turn people away from the sport we all enjoy .i have no problem with mid caps high caps or even baseball caps , after all its only a game and it AINT real.

fayer

AUDIE MURPHY wrote: »

This discussion will go on for years ha, i use high caps (oh the shame of it) because the last thing i want to be doing in the middle of a heavy skirmish is to be changing mags, whats wrong with that, why the attitude of high caps like they are satanic,also i know and have witnessed a lot of elitism in airsoft in ireland and its so wrong and will only turn people away from the sport we all enjoy .i have no problem with mid caps high caps or even baseball caps , after all its only a game and it AINT real.

Just down to ammo limits really IMO. I dont care how people carry ammo, once they cant use 60'000 rounds per game.

TheDoc

coys wrote: »

Ok Firstly let me begin by saying that this is me venting/thinking out loud, and is by no means any form of charachter assasinations or sweeping generalisations.

Now forgive me for thinking this but I believed that Airsoft is a combat simulation sport which was invented as a more realistic version of paintball. so one thing that gets me Is how people rock up every sat/sun with pouches full of 700-round M4 mags or the AK variant.

Now, any of you that Know me (Hopefully not a lot of ye:p), will know where I usually play. but there is a certain section of the players who do this week in week out, My question is, What is the point of having a combat Simulation sport that essentially turns into a BB throwing competition??, Surely you should go back to paintball??

Also, one thing that is rife in the sport is people Blatantly "fracturing " rules, i.e Blind firing and of course the bane of this sport, non hit taking. On the last 2 occasions that Ive played, I've witnessed people blatantly blind firing after being told the rules,

and as for non-hit taking, People repeatedly turning up in their "superman Pyjamas" and BB's bouncing off them, now I understand that there is always the possibility that the BB's are not reaching their target etc but when I see a person taking fire from 3 seperate angles and being hit from several shots just beggars belief and I find myself just asking , Why??

</Rant>

I know who you are

And I know the lads you play with.

And let me tell you, if people like you, and your friends come and join this sport in the future, our game is going to be safe.

For every 20 skirmishers, box mag cheating ****s we get.

We get 5 lads like you and the boys who are just straight up honest players and understand fundamentally what the game is about, and you get involved in the game for the right reasons.


Audie....its nothing to do with elitism, if you don't want to change mags during a game thats cool.

http://www.leisureplex.ie/product.php?page=qzar

The link above may just be the sport for you

You don't even have the take a hit in it either!

Shiva

AUDIE MURPHY wrote: »

because the last thing i want to be doing in the middle of a heavy skirmish is to be changing mags,

I reckon thats one of the best bits about using midcaps - pressure

AUDIE MURPHY

I never said the high cap issue was about elitism, i just mention it generally, and im afriad to burst your little bubble but im here to stay .high caps and all.:D

Growler!!!

Coys you have a very valid point in regard to Hi-caps. I think at the stage airsoft is at here in Ireland ie speedball, many new players are experiencing nothing other than hi-cap fests. I have to admit I include myself in this bracket.

It is very difficult to play any other type of game when your opponent does not have to reload! IMHO it adds more to the game the stress of having to watch your ammo consumption and reload during a firefight. The main reasons for the prolification of hi-caps is mainly down to each AEG is shipped with a hi-cap. Also when you start going up against other hi-cap users you feel a bit short loaded with a mid-cap installed.

Now I havent tried a proper mil sim or limited ammo game yet, but look forward to doing so in the future.

To end my rant - Hicaps still look like the real deal stuff however them Box Mag things should be banished if its not a bone fide support weapon!!!!!!!:D

Damo 2k9

One thing i see aswell is that most limited ammo games require you to have mid caps only, you can still play limited ammo games with hi caps. People are not getting a chance to play these limited ammo games because u need mid caps and they dont wanna go out and spend 60 euro on a set of mid caps to find out they aint for them and theyd rather hi caps. Id like to see games with ammo restrictions but people can still use high caps, eg 3 mid caps or 1 high cap,

TheDoc

Also, from my what would be average indoor experiences, hicaps ruin indoor gaming. Not being able to make any advances up a corridor due to being shed loaded with bbs non stop, makes it very boring, bland and non enjoyable.

Having to reload gives the opposition that few seconds to make ground on you, piling on the pressure, maybe you fumble to grab the mag, you fumble to get it in, all giving them those extra few seconds to gain ground on you.

I'd say the limited indoor play on my part is probably mostly attributed to the above.

Airsoft Reloded

TheDoc wrote: »

Also, from my what would be average indoor experiences, hicaps ruin indoor gaming. Not being able to make any advances up a corridor due to being shed loaded with bbs non stop, makes it very boring, bland and non enjoyable.

Having to reload gives the opposition that few seconds to make ground on you, piling on the pressure, maybe you fumble to grab the mag, you fumble to get it in, all giving them those extra few seconds to gain ground on you.

I'd say the limited indoor play on my part is probably mostly attributed to the above.

That just may a question of skill :eek: lolol

Inari

Become the change you wish to see. Every walk of life has people whom you don't agree with, whom you don't like, and whom in all probability don't like you. Although this sad fact sucks, it's there for life. The best solution to the problem is to become the change you wish to see, and inspire others to make the change.

You want people to play with honour? Raise up your own levels of honour (I'm not saying that you don't play honourably) and people will notice it. It makes people feel bad when they do not show honour.

In psychology, studies have shown that people tip more when they're facing a mirror. They treat others as they wish to be treated, as they literally see themselves in their shoes.

In airsoft, if you play the game as you wish it to be played, then people will notice and follow suit - 'tis the nature of conformity...make it work for you, rather than against. By lowering your own game (generally happens through frustration) then you become part of the problem, which is counter-productive

Airsoft Reloded

Inari wrote: »

Become the change you wish to see. Every walk of life has people whom you don't agree with, whom you don't like, and whom in all probability don't like you.

But if you are good in spirit and cause then you will enter the gates of valhala. LOL

mle1324

I use high caps for my 416 and I'll admit I'm not proud of it but if someone start looking down on me for doing so I'd just tell them to F off

Saturday week though will be my first time using low caps for my MP5 and hopefull I'll take to the difference easily as high caps for my gun are **** and the last box of mids (90rd) i had wouldnt fit for some stupit reason.

Anyway on the note of high caps the only reason why I use them is because it was cheaper for me to buy them instead of payen 60-70 quid on a box of eight mids simple as.

To make up for using high caps though I'm starting making it a habit for me to use simi all the time as opposed to full auto durning games, so far so good the only problem is though that it was a waste buying two high caps (not inc the one i got with my aeg) and at the end of the day i've only used 1 and a half of a mag if not just 1, my own fault though.

Regarding box mags I'm with gerrowadat on this as it freaks the hell out of me to see someone use one on a stubby killer :rolleyes:.

People not taking hits is something that will never go away in this sport, wish it would but unfortunately its not going to happen

Tigger

It's a game of skill

to weeks ago I saw something cool. Gar from the tigers was trying to take put a base so he pied his head out repeatedly at the mp5weilding highcap dude till he heard the aeg start to dry fire

he then charged the base 40 feet in open ANC the defender never realised he was dry firing so he took it

Experiance and mid caps 1 mp5and highcsps 0

(wouldn't work on me cos I use electtic mags )

Damo 2k9

Tigger wrote: »

It's a game of skill

to weeks ago I saw something cool. Gar from the tigers was trying to take put a base so he pied his head out repeatedly at the mp5weilding highcap dude till he heard the aeg start to dry fire

he then charged the base 40 feet in open ANC the defender never realised he was dry firing so he took it

Experiance and mid caps 1 mp5and highcsps 0

(wouldn't work on me cos I use electtic mags )

Well tbh that could have happened with mid caps aswell.

J.D.R

Right, to defend hi-caps for a moment.

One of the reason I use hi-caps is because, I can switch roles easily. I can switch from a sniper, to a rifleman, to a support gunner with the flick of the Selector switch. Normally, I only do burst fire, and when needed, I can do single shots when I don't want to be seen. But, IMHO, I am a farily good support gunner, so when the the need arises, like letting the team flank a postion, I just flick on full auto and start winding the mag.

Antother big reason in because of cost. In a 20 min game I will use on average 250-500 BB's, depending on how I play it. But, there is the odd occaision where I would play long games of 30-60, and even longer, where I would need to reload my Hi-cap a few times, depending on how many were playing.

SO to feel comfortable in a skirmish, I feel I would neew 6 110rnd mags and about 3 speed loaders. Thats, for good quality, about €100 versus €2x15 hicaps.

So, all I'm saying is, just cause I have a Hicap, doesn't mean I'm one of Those players (but if you see me with a box mag, you can judge all you like)

Damo 2k9

Why would u need 3 speed loaders ? :P

J.D.R

if your badly stuck in a skirmish, that the equivelant to an extra 3 midcaps. I knew a realy hard core player who only used 1 midcap and 6 speed loaders. He absolutely destroyed the skirmish.

Damo 2k9

Or you could just get the m4 sized speed loader ?

J.D.R

I had that before and it had some feeding issues. It loaded like 2 pellets for every click. Very annoying

mle1324

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Why would u need 3 speed loaders ? :P

Mids and Lows operate different from high caps, yea dont just pour bbs into them and wind away.

On mids yea push the bbs down into the mag with a spring keeping pressure puching it towords the top of the mag and the best way to load them is a speed loader

Damo 2k9

mle1324 wrote: »

Mids and Lows operate different from high caps, yea dont just pour bbs into them and wind away.

On mids yea push the bbs down into the mag with a spring keeping pressure puching it towords the top of the mag and the best way to load them is a speed loader

I know that :P
He was saying that if he was using mids then hed need 6 mids and 3 speed loaders and i was just asking why he needed 3 speed loaders instead of just having one.

J.D.R

Why be ready to load 1 mag when you can be ready to load 3?:D

mle1324

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

I know that :P
He was saying that if he was using mids then hed need 6 mids and 3 speed loaders and i was just asking why he needed 3 speed loaders instead of just having one.

Allllright lol mis understood yea there

rampantglory

Dont some soldiers have support weapons that do fire thousands of rounds and assault rifle users with pockets full of mags, so why cant airsofters use hicaps??

Surely its up to the individual to do what they want to enjoy their hard earned money in their chosen sport ??!!!

Different strokes for different folks

Tigger

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Well tbh that could have happened with mid caps aswell.

unlikley but the point I ws trying to make was it's a game of skill

Damo 2k9

So if your using a mid cap and your trying to kill someone that keeps peeping there head round a corner and you start dry firing it's unlikely ? :P

Tigger

yup

Airsoft Reloded

Its not unlikely at all, there is skill involved with both high caps and mid caps. Its in the player not the magazine people.

I have no mid caps, the only reason is because I have never bothered buying any.

touge_drift

i moved from the high cap to a buying a mid cap inbetwen my first and second time out!
fully auto on a high cap would annoy the hell out of me in a skirmish.

the hit taking anooys the hell out of me, im an honest guy so i take them when hit, but i also take them to stop getting fired at as it hurts some times.

over kill, now that annoyed me

Damo 2k9

Beat me too it, i dont see how dry firing on a mid cap is more unlikely than dry firing on a high cap ? You can run out of ammo on a mid cap too yanno :P

Blazer

I started off with hi-caps and found that they annoyed the hell outta me with the winding.
With the new M4 I got it came with a mid cap so I ordered two more with it..
Now I only play with mid caps as I find it really adds to the airsoft experience having to reload during an attack.
I'm mad to try a milsim as I'm sure I'd prefer this mode rather than all out bb wars plus I'd love to get down and dirty with pistols when you run out on the your main AEG..


and yes I agree box mags should only be used on support weapons.

gerrowadat

The thing with midcaps also is that it makes you conserve ammo. If I end up using a hicap (usually if using midcaps stops being fun because everyone else is on boxmags), I end up emptying the thing in 5 minutes. Whereas I'd usually use about 500 rounds in the average day.

Airsoft Reloded

gerrowadat wrote: »

The thing with midcaps also is that it makes you conserve ammo. If I end up using a hicap (usually if using midcaps stops being fun because everyone else is on boxmags), I end up emptying the thing in 5 minutes. Whereas I'd usually use about 500 rounds in the average day.

There is no denying that conserving ammo in games makes them a million times better.

swiftblade

Well i got a new MP5 for this Saturday but sadly my mid caps didnt arrive so im only running one 200 rd hi cap. Im going to be conserving ammo a lot :eek: .

I find it more fun playing on semi anyway.

Inari

AirsoftReloaded is right - skill is in the person, not the mag.

Personally I hate high's...but that's because of the Rattle. I also enjoy reloading, which is why my favourite 1911 is my SG M.E.U - 15rd mags. My choice, my preferance. Just as it is everyone's choice. People should try both sides of the fence and see which they prefer.

I find there is a bit of elitism in Mids - a little bit of "I'm better than you cause...". Obviously this is not always the case, but it's just something that I've seen. Hi-caps are what they are...mags. The problems are not the mags, but the attitude that can (important - can, not does) be weilding 'em...i.e. those whose AEG only operates in Full Auto, whose trigger is held incessantly, and of course the bane of many's game, winding whilst firing.

The potential of the above is what seems to give Hi-caps a bad name. It is not always the case

defenderdude

If people wanna use hicaps or box mags let em off...

It's only by playing together and people seeing and understanding the benefits and fun of mids at first hand (ass opposed to being told) - will they come to the dark side.

I remember playing in a Zimmerframe game back in 2007 at HRTA2 and trying to hold a building with Gandalf. He was using mids and I was using probably 6hicaps (with a bottle of bb's in a reserve pouch).

He ran out of rounds and was looking for a speedloader - I had one which was crap and gave it to him and he struggled with...:):o
I couldnt for the life of me, understand why he was using midcaps - underfire and under pressure from several sides and trying to reload bb's into a flippin 100rd mag...:)

(I died first by the way)

However, I very quickly understood - the sheer panic, the crack, the realism, the fear, the need for accuracy, the lack of rattle, sport itself, etc etc

Midcaps and limited ammo games are awesome - but so is darkening the sky with bb's.

I only really use midcaps or lowcaps now, but I have recently gone out with a single hicap mag - to last an age...

We (all of us) also need to be supporting the sites and games at weekends for the more regular skirmishes. It's only by playing / meeting and talking with new players and letting people see there are different approaches to the games - that we can hope to improve the game for all in a less judgmental way.

Thanks Gandalf for the lesson.:)
Hope I can pass it on to someone else...

Damo 2k9

defenderdude wrote: »

We (all of us) also need to be supporting the sites and games at weekends for the more regular skirmishes. It's only by playing / meeting and talking with new players and letting people see there are different approaches to the games - that we can hope to improve the game for all in a less judgmental way.

Thanks Gandalf for the lesson.:)
Hope I can pass it on to someone else...

I use high caps, but not in an abusive way
I think your point is 100% correct and if people just continue to get pissed off with people using high caps and spraying and stop playing at regular skirmishes then people are just going to continue doing it.
Even if people are playing alongside someone whos using mids and theyre using high caps themselves they are more likely to cop on that spraying is not the only way to play the sport and theyll start copying (in a good way) and picking there shots, using less ammo etc.

J.D.R

Right. I'll try it out so.

How many do you need though? I knwo that everybody has their preference, but how many is recommended. 2, 4, 6? I will have a hicap as back up, so if there is major hastle, I will have that, but will I be OK with 2/3 110rnd mids?

Damo 2k9

Depends on what game your playing really, and what way you want to play the game.

J.D.R

Fair point. I'll try it with 3 and see how I get on. Maybe I'll become a convert (that rattle does get annoying sometimes)

swiftblade

I like to have an even number of mags in my vest, but thats just me :rolleyes: 4 on your vest and one in your AEG (5 total), would be a good start

J.D.R

I'll see if I can russtle up a few quid more (like to point out, this skirmish would cost me 55 quid for the same capacity as 27.50 with hicaps. Better be worth it)