Trainspotters prepare to celebrate rail closure

Judgement Day

From Irish Railway News comes confirmation of the Irish Railway Record Society 'farewell' tour over the Rosslare/Waterford rail line. Note the celebratory tone of the post and the tour is going to be by 2800 class railcar - ohh too late I've just wet myself.

Railcargricer1 posted 25/6/10

Railtour of the decade for sure, its not often you see a tour these days with rolling stock working a maiden run for the class over a section of track. 2800s or 29000s or 22000s have never worked a passenger service from Rosslare to Waterford and as far as is known a 2800 class DMU has only worked once between Wellington Bridge and Waterford and that was on an empty transfer during a rockfall on Bray Head. 22000s have only travelled twice over the South Wexford both times on ride testing I've never seen a photograph of either working.

I'd love to see something mad like a short MK4 or the scratch set of DDs working it but neither vehicles are permitted south of Connolly loop line platforms and 201s aren't permitted normally between Arklow and Wellington Bridge. Also using spare DMUs on a Saturday keeps costs down for the society as Waterford/Rosslare drivers will likely work the tour and have knowledge of 27/28 and 29000s and 22000s.

The use of 28s or 29s is hugely unusual for a major part of the route and I can't wait for the tour I've never had either class up the Waterford line either and no Commuter railcars have any booked turns into Heuston now, top marks to the IRRS for doing something unusual and a tour that likely will be a total once off of a working rather than throwing out 081 on yet another tour.
This might pull me away from Wagonmasters for a day !lol!! Especially if its 2800s!

wild handlin

Judgement Day wrote: »

From Irish Railway News comes confirmation of the Irish Railway Record Society 'farewell' tour over the Rosslare/Waterford rail line. Note the celebratory tone of the post and the tour is going to be by 2800 class railcar - ohh too late I've just wet myself.

Railcargricer1 posted 25/6/10

Oh please!! :rolleyes: You appear to have little to do with ur time!!

corktina

one wonders what people like railcargricer 1 will do with their time when there is no more branches to close... these are the very people who should be chaining themselves to the rails to STOP closures.

KC61

I don't see anything in the post actually celebrating the line's closure....rather the prospect of an unusual railtour.

Different people get enjoyment from different things, although looking at this site sometimes you would get the impression that being a rail enthusiast appears to be a criminal offence.

I don't think anyone (other than those who took the decision to close the line) are deriving any pleasure from its closure.

Cookie_Monster

how can anyone be excited about the prospected of being on a 2800 ****box for hours and hours?

Vic_08

corktina wrote: »

one wonders what people like railcargricer 1 will do with their time when there is no more branches to close... these are the very people who should be chaining themselves to the rails to STOP closures.

Why should they do any such thing? If YOU or the person who started this stupid thread feel so strongly about it then YOU should do something.

What makes either of you think you have the right to complain about how others use their time and money?

Transportuser09

As KC61 says, it doesn't look like anyone is celebrating the line's closure. Apparently it is rare for that type of railcar to visit the line, some enthusiasts find that interesting. Doesn't do much for me but sure what harm is it. Some of it appears to be tongue in cheek anyway.

If the IRRS wants to run a final farewell special over the line then fair enough - it's not like its going to make nay difference to the line's ultimate fate. And before someone start's off with their "IRRS are the grim reaper" or similar comments consider how only a few months ago people where whinging about them running a special celebrating the reopening of the WRC. Seems more like childish anti-IRRS sentiments than anything else. There's plenty of organisations to be held to task over the closure but the IRRS are not one of them.

Oh, and as Vic 08 says, if you feel so strongly about it go chain yourself to the rails instead of telling others what to do. At least people like railcargricer1 don't waste their time bitching at groups on the internet in a childish and begrudging fashion.

Judgement Day

Vic_08 wrote: »

Why should they do any such thing? If YOU or the person who started this stupid thread feel so strongly about it then YOU should do something.

What makes either of you think you have the right to complain about how others use their time and money?

I have been doing everything I can to raise awareness of the stupidity of this closure with media/TDs etc - at a guess I have probably been doing more about it than you or the IRRS. What gives you the right to complain about me starting a post on a 'discussion' board?

PS Where did I complain about it - I merely highlighted it.

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have been doing everything I can to raise awareness of the stupidity of this closure with media/TDs etc

Good, fair play.

Judgement Day wrote: »

- at a guess I have probably been doing more about it than you or the IRRS. What gives you the right to complain about me starting a post on a 'discussion' board?

This board in particular seems to be used by a certain few to vent their own personal grudges against the IRRS. It's seems obvious that this thread was aimed to do the same. It's quite ridiculous at times - one minute people are giving out about the IRRS celebrating the reopening of a line, the next they are being accused of celebrating the closure of one. From what I can see they are not even represented on this board. Random digs at them are thrown in where ever they can be fitted in - often detracting from the main issues. If they want to run a railtour to let enthusiasts have a last trip over the line then let them - no-ones making you go on it. The IRRS never claimed to have done anything to raise awareness of the issue - so why hold them to task over it? For God's sake stop using bigger issues as a way to vent childish grudges.

Our man in Havana

From what I can see they are not even represented on this board.

They only have themselves to blame for that.

corktina

Vic_08 wrote: »

Why should they do any such thing? If YOU or the person who started this stupid thread feel so strongly about it then YOU should do something.

What makes either of you think you have the right to complain about how others use their time and money?

did i say I feel strongly about this line closing?
did I complain how guys spend their time or money?

Transportuser09

corktina wrote: »

did i say I feel strongly about this line closing?
did I complain how guys spend their time or money?

Railcargricer1 (who is on another board entirely) never said they felt strongly either yet you've no problem dictating what you feel they should be doing.

Transportuser09

Haddockman wrote: »

They only have themselves to blame for that.

I'm sure they've better things to be doing. In the mean time I suppose there will always be the few who will continue to use this board to attack them when they're not even here to speak back.

Our man in Havana

Why don't you alert them to all these scurrilous threads? You seem well connected.

wild handlin

Haddockman wrote: »

Why don't you alert them to all these scurrilous threads? You seem well connected.

What will that achieve?

Transportuser09

Haddockman wrote: »

Why don't you alert them to all these scurrilous threads? You seem well connected.

LOL. Do I really? Oddly enough I'm not even a member! Just don't like all the pointless bashing they get on this site for no genuine reason.

Why don't I alert them you ask. Well, I'm sure they've better things to do with their time. I sometimes wonder why I reply myself...at this stage I'd say few if any take such posts seriously anyway.

Ham'nd'egger

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have been doing everything I can to raise awareness of the stupidity of this closure with media/TDs etc....- at a guess I have probably been doing more about it than you or the IRRS.

What do you want the IRRS to do about it? Get people onto a train to use the line? Oh wait.....

Judgement Day wrote: »

What gives you the right to complain about me starting a post on a 'discussion' board?

As much right as it gives you to start on. Except he probably has no vested interests and grudges with any railway society/company like you have.

Judgement Day wrote: »

PS Where did I complain about it - I merely highlighted it.

Whereas your constant referring to members of the IRRS as fossils, regular comments on IRN posters and speaking of those who may go on rail excursions as if they came out of Enid Blyton books is accurate and not mocking of these people:rolleyes:

Judgement Day

Hamndegger wrote: »

What do you want the IRRS to do about it? Get people onto a train to use the line? Oh wait.....



As much right as it gives you to start on. Except he probably has no vested interests and grudges with any railway society/company like you have.



Whereas your constant referring to members of the IRRS as fossils, regular comments on IRN posters and speaking of those who may go on rail excursions as if they came out of Enid Blyton books is accurate and not mocking of these people:rolleyes:

Ah nice to see my old friend back! If you look at my post I refrained from calling the IRRS fossils on this occasion which I consider very diplomatic of me. And your 'selective' quote misrepresents what I said re. complaining. The other poster asked what right I had to complain about the tour (I hadn't complained about it) just highlighted it.
I have no grudges against any particular railway society - I have always found the IRRS to be a waste of space but that's their business. I have serious grievances against two rail operators (CIE and the C&L in Dromod) and I reserve the right to have a swipe at them whenever the opportunity arises as I can get little satisfaction in dealing with them through more normal channels.

Ham'nd'egger

Judgement Day wrote: »

Ah nice to see my old friend back! If you look at my post I refrained from calling the IRRS fossils on this occasion which I consider very diplomatic of me.

Oh, how decent of you, the UN are impressed :rolleyes:

Judgement Day wrote: »

And your 'selective' quote misrepresents what I said re. complaining. The other poster asked what right I had to complain about the tour (I hadn't complained about it) just highlighted it.

The mere fact that you raised the issue of this tour and in disparaging terms is complaint enough.

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have no grudges against any particular railway society

Pigs are flying.

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have always found the IRRS to be a waste of space but that's their business. I have serious grievances against two rail operators (CIE and the C&L in Dromod)

Care to explain why you have a grievance with said operators? Something happen in the past with them? Steal a moment and tell us all, you can bank on your help...

Judgement Day wrote: »

and I reserve the right to have a swipe at them whenever the opportunity arises as I can little satisfaction in dealing with them through more normal channels.

Little being the operative word with you.

Cookie_Monster

now now

Hungerford

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Just don't like all the pointless bashing they get on this site for no genuine reason.

You're right. I wish to apologise wholeheartedly for repeated comments I have made about the IRRS on this board.

After all, it isn't like they are an old boys club for CIE managers who recently got a train specially overhauled at the taxpayers' expense for a once-off railtour and pillage closed lines for artifacts ... that's obviously a completely different bunch of fossils.

Our man in Havana

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

now now

corktina

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Railcargricer1 (who is on another board entirely) never said they felt strongly either yet you've no problem dictating what you feel they should be doing.

no I just think that if they enjoy riding on various branch lines, they will soon run out of a hobby.

Transportuser09

corktina wrote: »

no I just think that if they enjoy riding on various branch lines, they will soon run out of a hobby.

They may well, but it's not like they've any control over whether or not that happens.

Transportuser09

Hungerford wrote: »

You're right. I wish to apologise wholeheartedly for repeated comments I have made about the IRRS on this board.

After all, it isn't like they are an old boys club for CIE managers who recently got a train specially overhauled at the taxpayers' expense for a once-off railtour and pillage closed lines for artifacts ... that's obviously a completely different bunch of fossils.

There was no train 'overhauled' it was merely spruced up from what I've heard - but thats beside the point. And have you any evidence to back up it being an old boys club for CIÉ managers? I doubt an organisation with what, 1,000 members is entirely made up of CIÉ managers, maybe I'm wrong though.

And if they want to collect old artefacts from closed routes I don't see the problem with that - the way some people go on here you'd think the IRRS had arranged the closure of the line just so they could get these artefacts.

Transportuser09

Hamndegger wrote: »

Care to explain why you have a grievance with said operators? Something happen in the past with them? Steal a moment and tell us all, you can bank on your help...
.

+ 1. If certain posters are going to use these forums to dig at these groups they could at least enlighten us as to what horrible things they've done to deserve it. Who knows, we might even come round to your point of view :eek:

wild handlin

Hungerford wrote: »

You're right. I wish to apologise wholeheartedly for repeated comments I have made about the IRRS on this board.

After all, it isn't like they are an old boys club for CIE managers who recently got a train specially overhauled at the taxpayers' expense for a once-off railtour and pillage closed lines for artifacts ... that's obviously a completely different bunch of fossils.

What evidence is there to suggest this?? Correct me if I'm wrong but IE cleaned up - NOT overhauled a MK 3 set for a Charity run for the Charity called "Railway Children" which helps children who are far worse off than those living in Ireland. They used the IRRS as an "organiser" for the tour (i.e ticket sales) of which the profits go to the Charity.

I think it's abit mean to suggest that tax payer's money was "wasted" when it was clearly going to a good cause? Is anyone here who slags the IRRS actually a member of the society? If so, can they confirm/deny whether the IRRS is a club for "ex CIE staff and managers"? It appears to me that a few on here seem to slag off a group/society based on assumptions/guesses without providing any hard facts.

wild handlin

corktina wrote: »

no I just think that if they enjoy riding on various branch lines, they will soon run out of a hobby.

Why would this be?

corktina

Transportuser09 wrote: »

They may well, but it's not like they've any control over whether or not that happens.

well I didn't say they had did I? stop trying to put words in my keyboard....

corktina

wild handlin wrote: »

Why would this be?

economic situation perhaps? expansion of the motorway network perhaps? IEs apparent determination to shut the Rosslaire to Waterford line, perhaps quickly followed by the Waterford to limerick Junc line?....

steamengine

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

now now

psychic

Cookie_Monster

steamengine wrote: »

psychic

steamengine

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Some divergence with our crystal balls - mine shows this

shamwari

wild handlin wrote: »

It appears to me that a few on here seem to slag off a group/society based on assumptions/guesses without providing any hard facts.

Sure why stop the habit of a lifetime? They'll soon grow out of it.....perhaps :rolleyes:

wild handlin

corktina wrote: »

no I just think that if they enjoy riding on various branch lines, they will soon run out of a hobby.

corktina wrote: »

economic situation perhaps? expansion of the motorway network perhaps? IEs apparent determination to shut the Rosslaire to Waterford line, perhaps quickly followed by the Waterford to limerick Junc line?....

Yes, however I wouldn't classify them as branch lines!!

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have been doing everything I can to raise awareness of the stupidity of this closure with media/TDs etc - at a guess I have probably been doing more about it than you or the IRRS. What gives you the right to complain about me starting a post on a 'discussion' board?

PS Where did I complain about it - I merely highlighted it.

why is closing an expensive train line that serves no real useful purpose and has less passengers in a week than would fit on a double deck bus stupid?

this madly expensive train is being replaced by a bus service which is more frequent more comfortable much cheaper and will drop most passengers closer to their doors than the train ever could and it just might connect up with other services!

DWCommuter

The same group of enthusiasts talking the same ****e over and over again including very personal digs at people they think they know about. The amount of familiar "thankyou" posts is so predictable at this stage. The IRRS argument about how they are filled with ex CIE managers has been done to death. Its true, the IRRS is filled with them. I've outlined examples and evidence before. But obviously some decide not to read and I won't be repeating it for the benefit of any of you.

The 1000 members argument is baloney, because 99.9% of them have no say or influence on the organisation. It is a bastion of fiction and so far from the reality of what goes on across the rail network, that its laughable. Read the ****ing journals if you need proof and stop denying that its an outdated and obviously biased enthusisats wing of IE.

As for the IRRS not being a lobby...thats a ****ing joke, because every year it produces journals that never never actually crticise CIE/IE for any bad decision, despite many decisions being very obviously questionable. On top of that they repeatedly ignore media coverage from user groups that are critical of IE. They are a joke. Full stop.

DWCommuter

Transportuser09 wrote: »

There was no train 'overhauled' it was merely spruced up from what I've heard - but thats beside the point. And have you any evidence to back up it being an old boys club for CIÉ managers? I doubt an organisation with what, 1,000 members is entirely made up of CIÉ managers, maybe I'm wrong though.

And if they want to collect old artefacts from closed routes I don't see the problem with that - the way some people go on here you'd think the IRRS had arranged the closure of the line just so they could get these artefacts.

Dear god almighty.

If you are as innocent as you seem to portray yourself, then do your homework by reading the IRRS journals, or do you really want me to start a thread that highlights 30 years worth of crap from their journals (from the collection I aquired in 2003) that proves how biased they are even in terms of enthusiasts views. The IRRS doesn't even represent the views of some enthusiasts. It is nothing more that a pitiful little club for ex managers/employees to talk crap. The rest of the membership just want to belong and visit the library on a winter Tuesday night...or something or have a railtour organised for them.

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

The same group of enthusiasts talking the same ****e over and over again including very personal digs at people they think they know about. The amount of familiar "thankyou" posts is so predictable at this stage. The IRRS argument about how they are filled with ex CIE managers has been done to death. Its true, the IRRS is filled with them. I've outlined examples and evidence before.

And yet no evidence to back any of this up.

DWCommuter wrote: »

stop denying that its an outdated and obviously biased enthusisats wing of IE.

See above.

DWCommuter wrote: »

As for the IRRS not being a lobby...thats a ****ing joke, because every year it produces journals that never never actually crticise CIE/IE for any bad decision, despite many decisions being very obviously questionable. On top of that they repeatedly ignore media coverage from user groups that are critical of IE. They are a joke. Full stop.

But they are not a lobby, therefore why should they be held accountable for not doing something (lobbying or criticising) that is not within their remit to do. If you want a critical journal set up your own one. They record (hint is in their name) happenings. They've no obligation to critique them.

corktina

foggy_lad wrote: »

why is closing an expensive train line that serves no real useful purpose and has less passengers in a week than would fit on a double deck bus stupid?

this madly expensive train is being replaced by a bus service which is more frequent more comfortable much cheaper and will drop most passengers closer to their doors than the train ever could and it just might connect up with other services!

the reason why THIS particular closure cannot be replaced properley by a bus service is that the road route is a LOT longer than the rail route.

The reason why the passenger numbers are so low is that the timetable and train frequency have (probably quite deliberately) been so arranged as to not be of a lot of use to alot of people and no effort has been made to attract new custom.

A reason why this line should NOT close is the historical importance of the barrow swing bridge, a last survivor of its type .

A reason why IE are moving to close this line now is to provide resources to run the Ennis to Athenry line/(and,god help us, other sections of the WRC).


Properly organised enthusiast groups elsewhere in the world have acheived miracles, there is no really effective Irish group to compare with these which is why (rightly or wrongly and without defending him) some people get hot under the collar about certain groups

wild handlin

corktina wrote: »

A reason why IE are moving to close this line now is to provide resources to run the Ennis to Athenry line/(and,god help us, other sections of the WRC).

As far as I know this is NOT the reaon for the proposed Rosslare - Waterford line. CIE have wanted this line closed for decades.

Hungerford

wild handlin wrote: »

As far as I know this is NOT the reaon for the proposed Rosslare - Waterford line. CIE have wanted this line closed for decades.

That's funny because the Minister for Transport thinks otherwise:

The revelation comes as transport minister Noel Dempsey said that transport budgets were so tight that an eastern railway line would be shut to provide resources for the new Limerick-Galway railway.

The move to sacrifice the Waterford-Rosslare railway will leave a sizeable portion of Co Wexford without any public transport but Dempsey said that "it's not possible to provide a public transport system to every nook and corner of the country".

"If we want to provide a reasonable service to 150,000 people along the western corridor and we can't increase the subsidy we can give to Iarnród Éireann, you have to look at those ones which are less used," he said.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/apr/11/iarnrod-eireann-derails-420m-line-upgrade/

Hungerford

corktina wrote: »

The reason why the passenger numbers are so low is that the timetable and train frequency have (probably quite deliberately) been so arranged as to not be of a lot of use to alot of people and no effort has been made to attract new custom.

What's actually scary is according to one of the UK rail magazines, IE found that the loss on the route would decline if they increased services to three each way per day. This important analysis has probably been filed in the shredder.

Typewriter

Do you have to be a member of IRRS to go on this trip or can I just send in the booking form + fee and get tickets?

Our man in Havana

green_jesus wrote: »

Do you have to be a member of IRRS to go on this trip or can I just send in the booking form + fee and get tickets?

Your too late now anyways. It is fully booked.

Judgement Day

Haddockman wrote: »

Your too late now anyways. It is fully booked.

Glad I booked my ticket so!

Cookie_Monster

but sure the can just bolt another 2800 on the end if demand is high can't they?

corktina

wild handlin wrote: »

As far as I know this is NOT the reaon for the proposed Rosslare - Waterford line. CIE have wanted this line closed for decades.

i said A reason.....quite carefully...

Judgement Day

And I'm delighted to inform boardsies that that the 'old reliable' chicken dinner, much favoured by the Fossils IRRS , is on offer at Rosslare Euroshack. It really must be the end of the South Wexford.
http://www.irrs.ie/Railtours/172%20South%20Wexford%20Outing.htm

wild handlin

Hungerford wrote: »

That's funny because the Minister for Transport thinks otherwise:



http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/apr/11/iarnrod-eireann-derails-420m-line-upgrade/

Yes, however the fact of the Western Rail Corridor being responsable for the proposed closure of the Waterford - Rosslare line is laughable.

While IE have to tigten their purse strings and make savings then of couse they will have to look at "lesser used lines" to make savings, but to open 1 line and have to close another is not what is happening as I can gather. Like I said, CIE have wanted rid of Rosslare - Limerick Junction for years now, it's not "new news". Maybe if they actually made trains run to a proper timetable and connect with trains/boats it could claw back some of the lost revinue.

wild handlin

Judgement Day wrote: »

And I'm delighted to inform boardsies that that the 'old reliable' chicken dinner, much favoured by the Fossils IRRS , is on offer at Rosslare Euroshack. It really must be the end of the South Wexford.
http://www.irrs.ie/Railtours/172%20South%20Wexford%20Outing.htm

Give it a rest will ya!?:rolleyes: