british sas , are they over rated

Wicklowrider

troubleshooter wrote: »

Ha, ha, ha, lost control, lol. It was classic Linear infalade/ambush which left 8 enemy dead, using large amounts of rounds was used a tactic on all SAS/Det ambushes in NI to show the PIRA what happened if the met the SAS on an operation, and strike fear into them, it also denied them an open coffin, which was often used as a propaganda tool. Often 800 plus rounds were fired into vehicles.

The civilian who was shot dead was unfortunate in that he was wearing a boiler suit, as the PIRA members were, and drove into the ambush from the other direction. It was the PIRAS biggest loss since 1921. Yet according to you it was an SAS failure, lol.

It was a textbush ambush, how can you seriously claim it was not a success for the SAS? The PIRA had one of their most prolific ASUs wiped out including one of their most experienced bomb makers. It also left the PIRA in a state of paranoia, not know if and where the intel. for the ambush came from.

Theres a lot of Ha-ha and LOL in the above considering we are discussing 3 totaly innocent people being fired on in an uncontrolled and in excusable manner - actually this is bordering on psychotic.

So they didn't lose control but intentionally let loose with this volume of fire on 3 unarmed civilians?
Thanks. I now have a much higher opinion of the SAS.:rolleyes:
BTW was the woman wearing a boiler suit? re your post referring to Nairac as a brave dead soldier - Nairac was operating in direct conflict to the geneva convention. He has been linked by his own handlers to atrocities on both sides of the border. To refer to him as a soldier is deeply insulting to professional soldiers, brave or otherwise. The cold hard fact is that if you go looking for trouble sooner or later you will find it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nairac

PS was wrecking my head trying to remeber a book I read back in the '80s best objective account of SAS history I came across.
here it is http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1704548.Who_Dares_Wins

supersportq

troubleshooter wrote: »

There is no evidence two terrorists escaped that ambush, thats just more SF/pira bs.

TimPat Coogan is probably one of the most respected journalists in Ireland and a recognised authority on the IRA. I happen to believe such people and not SAS fairytales.

troubleshooter wrote: »

More illinformed nonsense, it was only SF/IRA who claimed Nairac was SAS, he was part of a unit 14 Int Coy, the MOD always stated he was a Grenadier guards capt, which he was. Capt Niariac GC, was abducted, tortured and murdered by a group of drunken terrorists, one later claimed Niaric who never said anything when tortured was the bravest man he ever met. Only armchair republicans knock the bravery of brave dead soldiers.

" one later claimed Niaric who never said anything when tortured was the bravest man he ever met. "

As I stated, for years Nairac was been lauded as an SAS 'hero' without any statements been issued by the British army to deny it, he was their poster boy until his role with the loyalists was exposed. When he went missing the media went into overdrive portraying his abduction as having to be subdued by 7/8 IRA and how he knocked out several teeth with his SAS Karate skills etc when in fact this 'hero' was overpowered by a single IRA man when he tried topull a gun on him.

If you or others want to know the real truth then I would recommend you reading The SAS in Ireland by Raymond Murray or Ireland the Propaganda War by Liz Curtis, though I'd very much doubt it as reading daring do ficition such as Bravo Two Zero would be more in your line.

supersportq

troubleshooter wrote: »

Ha, ha, ha, lost control, lol. It was classic Linear infalade/ambush which left 8 enemy dead, using large amounts of rounds was used a tactic on all SAS/Det ambushes in NI to show the PIRA what happened if the met the SAS on an operation, and strike fear into them, it also denied them an open coffin, which was often used as a propaganda tool. Often 800 plus rounds were fired into vehicles.

The civilian who was shot dead was unfortunate in that he was wearing a boiler suit, as the PIRA members were, and drove into the ambush from the other direction. It was the PIRAS biggest loss since 1921. Yet according to you it was an SAS failure, lol.

It was a textbush ambush, how can you seriously claim it was not a success for the SAS? The PIRA had one of their most prolific ASUs wiped out including one of their most experienced bomb makers. It also left the PIRA in a state of paranoia, not know if and where the intel. for the ambush came from.

The SAS ambush had no noticeable long-term effect on the level of IRA activity in East Tyrone. In revenge a while later at nearby Ballygawley the IRA exploded a huge bomb hidden in a trailer as an unmarked bus passed by carrying 36 British solders who had arrived from Aldergrove airoprt for their tour of duty killing eight soldiers and maiming most of the rest. Not bad for an organisation supposed to be in a state of paranoia. Certainly the SAS or RUC Special branch not know if and where the intel. for the Ballygawley ambush came from.

rookie09

troubleshooter wrote: »

Ha, ha, ha, lost control, lol. It was classic Linear infalade/ambush which left 8 enemy dead, using large amounts of rounds was used a tactic on all SAS/Det ambushes in NI to show the PIRA what happened if the met the SAS on an operation, and strike fear into them, it also denied them an open coffin, which was often used as a propaganda tool. Often 800 plus rounds were fired into vehicles.

The civilian who was shot dead was unfortunate in that he was wearing a boiler suit, as the PIRA members were, and drove into the ambush from the other direction. It was the PIRAS biggest loss since 1921. Yet according to you it was an SAS failure, lol.

It was a textbush ambush, how can you seriously claim it was not a success for the SAS? The PIRA had one of their most prolific ASUs wiped out including one of their most experienced bomb makers. It also left the PIRA in a state of paranoia, not know if and where the intel. for the ambush came from.

Have to laugh at these 'Brits or West Brits' for that matter, when they use the term PIRA,you can always tell which side of the fence there on.Keep reading your Chris Ryan books!

twinytwo

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Source for that please?



I don't particularly want them to do anything - but you'd imagine that a force supposedly adept at intelligence gathering, recce missions etc wouldn't drive into a static 24 hour checkpoint and even if they did should have been capable of a hasty retreat or at worst talk themselves out of it... Are you seriously going to argue this one?




Thanks - I've learnt something.



Come on? Exfil is silly talk for getting a taxi and driving up the main road.
Whats the 1st thing you are taught in basic e&e - stay off the roads/track etc.

if i recall wasnt one of them suffering from hypothermia?.. Frankly given the weather and circumstances staying on foot could have been worse. Besides as you wernt there you cant really pass judgement. Anyway why not try for SF's yourself before you carry on with this rubbish.. everyone loves armchair generals

troubleshooter

supersportq wrote: »

TimPat Coogan is probably one of the most respected journalists in Ireland and a recognised authority on the IRA. I happen to believe such people and not SAS fairytales.


" one later claimed Niaric who never said anything when tortured was the bravest man he ever met. "

As I stated, for years Nairac was been lauded as an SAS 'hero' without any statements been issued by the British army to deny it, he was their poster boy until his role with the loyalists was exposed. When he went missing the media went into overdrive portraying his abduction as having to be subdued by 7/8 IRA and how he knocked out several teeth with his SAS Karate skills etc when in fact this 'hero' was overpowered by a single IRA man when he tried topull a gun on him.

If you or others want to know the real truth then I would recommend you reading The SAS in Ireland by Raymond Murray or Ireland the Propaganda War by Liz Curtis, though I'd very much doubt it as reading daring do ficition such as Bravo Two Zero would be more in your line.

Do you have a link to your claim that 2 terrorists escaped at Loughall?

While Coogan may have links to the PIRA, he has no links to the SAS or RUC to make such a claim, please post a link.

It was the PIRA who realeased a satement after Loughall claiming members had shot their way out of an ambush...total bs.


"Shortly after the ambush the IRA released a statement saying: "volunteers who shot their way out of the ambush and escaped saw other Volunteers being shot on the ground after being captured".[16]

troubleshooter

supersportq wrote: »

The SAS ambush had no noticeable long-term effect on the level of IRA activity in East Tyrone. In revenge a while later at nearby Ballygawley the IRA exploded a huge bomb hidden in a trailer as an unmarked bus passed by carrying 36 British solders who had arrived from Aldergrove airoprt for their tour of duty killing eight soldiers and maiming most of the rest. Not bad for an organisation supposed to be in a state of paranoia. Certainly the SAS or RUC Special branch not know if and where the intel. for the Ballygawley ambush came from.

Not true, the SAS killed 28 members of East Tyrone brigade in 5 yrs, how could killing their top bombers not have an effect on the PIRA, East Tyrone were heavily involved in supporting South Armagh brigade and in Fermanagh, this is where the decline happened, East Tyrone had fair low levels of terrorist attacks in the first place, 7 killings in 2 yrs, 11 in the following 2 yrs,your simply posting SF/PIRA Bs/spin.

"The SAS ambush had no noticeable long-term effect on the level of IRA activity in East Tyrone. In the two years prior to the Loughgall ambush the IRA killed 7 people in East Tyrone and North Armagh, and 11 in the two years following the ambush.[5] Ed Moloney, Irish journalist and author of the A Secret History of the IRA, states that the brigade lost 53 members killed in the Troubles - the highest of any 'Brigade' area. Of these, 28 were killed between 1987 and 1992.[6] Most of the attacks which took place in County Fermanagh during this period of the Troubles were also launched from Tyrone and Monaghan.[7]"

Wicklowrider

twinytwo wrote: »

if i recall wasnt one of them suffering from hypothermia?.. Frankly given the weather and circumstances staying on foot could have been worse. Besides as you wernt there you cant really pass judgement. Anyway why not try for SF's yourself before you carry on with this rubbish.. everyone loves armchair generals

Worse than what happened? Thats difficult for me to imagine.
BTW you have a reasoned point until you got mouthy....
Oh - and I was not SF material, although I was a competant Infantry NCO for 9 years. After army service I worked personnel protection, including some time with ex SAS and 1 ex yank ranger and a russian spez guy - absolutely no prob with any of them. Now theres my colours nailed to the mast and I am calling your bluff - what service have you?

troubleshooter

supersportq wrote: »

TimPat Coogan is probably one of the most respected journalists in Ireland and a recognised authority on the IRA. I happen to believe such people and not SAS fairytales.


" one later claimed Niaric who never said anything when tortured was the bravest man he ever met. "

As I stated, for years Nairac was been lauded as an SAS 'hero' without any statements been issued by the British army to deny it, he was their poster boy until his role with the loyalists was exposed. When he went missing the media went into overdrive portraying his abduction as having to be subdued by 7/8 IRA and how he knocked out several teeth with his SAS Karate skills etc when in fact this 'hero' was overpowered by a single IRA man when he tried topull a gun on him.

If you or others want to know the real truth then I would recommend you reading The SAS in Ireland by Raymond Murray or Ireland the Propaganda War by Liz Curtis, though I'd very much doubt it as reading daring do ficition such as Bravo Two Zero would be more in your line.

Once again do you have links for your claims/bs? The SAS never claimed Niairac as one of theirs, as with all det/14 Int operators KIA his parent reg was given.

troubleshooter

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Worse than what happened? Thats difficult for me to imagine.
BTW you have a reasoned point until you got mouthy....
Oh - and I was not SF material, although I was a competant Infantry NCO for 9 years. After army service I worked personnel protection, including some time with ex SAS and 1 ex yank ranger and a russian spez guy - absolutely no prob with any of them. Now theres my colours nailed to the mast and I am calling your bluff - what service have you?

Ha, ha, yer right, you have worked with SOF(If you were for real you would have written SOF not SF)yet you dont know the basics of what makes a successful ambush, yer right.:rolleyes:

twinytwo

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Worse than what happened? Thats difficult for me to imagine.
BTW you have a reasoned point until you got mouthy....
Oh - and I was not SF material, although I was a competant Infantry NCO for 9 years. After army service I worked personnel protection, including some time with ex SAS and 1 ex yank ranger and a russian spez guy - absolutely no prob with any of them. Now theres my colours nailed to the mast and I am calling your bluff - what service have you?

yawn.. sure buddy:rolleyes:

troubleshooter

Low Rider you claim to have served with ex SAS, but in post 24 you were not even aware they were in Afghanistan, you seem toi think they sat around in Hereford, anyone who moves in such circles would know the SAS left Hereford for RHQ Credenhill 10 yrs ago. Your terminology for ex military is all wrong, no one whos what your claim would say 24 hr static check point rather permanent VCP....Your not Jim Short are you, lol.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66618455&postcount=24

Wicklowrider

troubleshooter wrote: »

Ha, ha, yer right, you have worked with SOF(If you were for real you would have written SOF not SF)yet you dont know the basics of what makes a successful ambush, yer right.:rolleyes:

I always referred to as special forces - didn't realise there was written test. As I said in previous posts I have no interest in talking the talk, hence my slagging off your "Ex fil this and ex fil that". In the post you quoted I say I was NOT SF material. No big deal for me - I went as far as I could.
I challenged how the sas hit up an innocent woman and two innocent men, killing one, not the success or otherwise of the ambush?
You make an art of sidestepping the issues don't you?
As regards working with SF people after military service - I am surprised you are aghast at that? firstly, its no big deal - insurance firm required protection for people they insured, I applied for a bog standard security job with company and was offered this instead.It wasn't a particularly interesting,exciting or even well paid job. SF people working everywhere - saw doc on telly about harrods and they had former Spez guys working in the store.
BTW other areas where SF people worked in this country was movies ( effects mostly) and guess what? They hadn't the slightest prob working with bog standard ex army.Don't understand your issue with that part of it - have you worked with any of them? My experience was they were happy just to be working and didn't care who with.

troubleshooter

Wicklowrider wrote: »

I always referred to as special forces - didn't realise there was written test. As I said in previous posts I have no interest in talking the talk, hence my slagging off your "Ex fil this and ex fil that". In the post you quoted I say I was NOT SF material. No big deal for me - I went as far as I could.
I challenged how the sas hit up an innocent woman and two innocent men, killing one, not the success or otherwise of the ambush?
You make an art of sidestepping the issues don't you?
As regards working with SF people after military service - I am surprised you are aghast at that? firstly, its no big deal - insurance firm required protection for people they insured, I applied for a bog standard security job with company and was offered this instead.It wasn't a particularly interesting,exciting or even well paid job. SF people working everywhere - saw doc on telly about harrods and they had former Spez guys working in the store.
BTW other areas where SF people worked in this country was movies ( effects mostly) and guess what? They hadn't the slightest prob working with bog standard ex army.Don't understand your issue with that part of it - have you worked with any of them? My experience was they were happy just to be working and didn't care who with.

Im not intrested in your personal cv fantasy BS. The SAS did not shoot a woman at Loughall, this is more BS they shot dead a builder in a boiler suit and wounded his male collegue, please get your facts right.

"The SAS also fired upon the car of passer-by Anthony Hughes, who was driving through the village with his brother Oliver Hughes. Anthony (36) was killed and his brother was badly wounded.[9] Both were wearing blue overalls similar to those sometimes worn by IRA members and so were thought to be part of the IRA unit.[10] The SAS fired forty shots at the car as the two men tried to reverse out of the gunfire. Hughes' widow later received compensation from the British Government for the death of her husband.[11]"

Avgas

I just wonder how much of this is bait and troll and the rest just rank ignorance?

SAS, whatever one thinks of the wider politics of British governments, is widely acknowledged as one the best SOF units in the world, successful in a wide diversity of mission profiles.........YES there is a popular pulp fiction literature which excessively glorifies the SAS for schoolboys as supermen .. most people can seperate the fact from the fiction....and reach a reasonable conclusion .......that they remain very very good soldiers indeed.

To compare them with American SWAT teams is just plain idiocy, and reveals much.

Wicklowrider, says he served in infantry-I guess in OUR army and not the Provos or the Spanish Foreign Legion....if so...I wonder what unit and when I wonder because some of the refs sound v. dated?

Moreover, merely working alongside ex-SAS men in private security doesn't really give you an ability to say how good they were at soldiering does it, because you were never soldiering with them.... were you?

To call another poster a "west-brit or brit" because they use the term PIRA is just utter crap. PIRA is used in many of the academic and scholarly studies of the conflict to distinguish from the many factions...OIRA....CIRA...RIRA....Like all acronymns its merely a useful but precise shorthand. MBT for tanks...but the people who drive them give them all sort of nicknames........Obviously locals in Belfast don't call them PIRA.....but that doesn't mean using PIRA isn't a valid short hand......I suppose next you'll be challenging the right of the Defence Forces to use the term Oglaigh Na hEireann?

I too would like to have a reference to the mystery women who was shot by the SAS at Loughgall but who lived to tell the tale......or do you mean she was a local witness who heard and saw firing? Anything I could find on the web just mentions the workman who was killed (RIP) and the other man in the car. A solid reference from a reputable source would be nice?

BTW I've never read the Chris Ryan novels, and have zero interest to, and I'm 100% civilian and west of Ireland not west-brit...which anyhow.... would be welsh right?:rolleyes:

Wicklowrider

twinytwo wrote: »

yawn.. sure buddy:rolleyes:

Thought so - zero service. Who's the armchair general now?

Theres a common pattern with SASEROTISM dreamers here - none of them answer questions.
Dreamers, Playstation soldiers.

Fratton Fred

Jesus, there must be a few empty barstools in Finglas tonight.

Wicklowrider

Avgas wrote: »

.......YES there is a popular pulp fiction literature which excessively glorifies the SAS for schoolboys as supermen .. most people can seperate the fact from the fiction....and reach a reasonable conclusion .......that they remain very very good soldiers indeed.

THANKS - thats all I tried to say all along.

Avgas wrote: »

.......Wicklowrider, says he served in infantry-I guess in OUR army and not the Provos or the Spanish Foreign Legion....if so...I wonder what unit and when I wonder because some of the refs sound v. dated?

Correct, 25 yrs ago in Irish army. Defo dated - hence memory wrong on some things and right about late '70 & '80s.

Avgas wrote: »

.
Moreover, merely working alongside ex-SAS men in private security doesn't really give you an ability to say how good the were at soldiering does it, because you were never soldiering with them.... were you?

Didn't say that - said I got on ok with them working wise. A fair bit of slagging went on but little real discussion that I remember f.i they wouldn't talk about falklands, n.i etc.

twinytwo

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Thought so - zero service. Who's the armchair general now?

Theres a common pattern with SASEROTISM dreamers here - none of them answer questions.
Dreamers, Playstation soldiers.

unlike youself i have not made claims to any military service.. So i cant see your logic in calling me an armchair general. Posters like yourself come around here every once in a while. More to be pitied than laughed at....

May i redirect you to this..

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1008

Wicklowrider

troubleshooter wrote: »

Low Rider you claim to have served with ex SAS, but in post 24 you were not even aware they were in Afghanistan, you seem toi think they sat around in Hereford, anyone who moves in such circles would know the SAS left Hereford for RHQ Credenhill 10 yrs ago. Your terminology for ex military is all wrong, no one whos what your claim would say 24 hr static check point rather permanent VCP....Your not Jim Short are you, lol.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66618455&postcount=24

Why bother?
The post attached doesn't mention afghanistan - and just to clarify I did know but could care less that the SAS are in afghanistan.
Left army 25 years ago so don't know what point you are making? I stated I WORKED with ex SAS. Can't imagine what sort of egos some of you have that you'd imagine I'd lie about this - but it only came up when a playstation soldier referred to my service. OH. and VCP - can I be a real soldier like you now.....

troubleshooter

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Why bother?
The post attached doesn't mention afghanistan - and just to clarify I did know but could care less that the SAS are in afghanistan.
Left army 25 years ago so don't know what point you are making? I stated I WORKED with ex SAS. Can't imagine what sort of egos some of you have that you'd imagine I'd lie about this - but it only came up when a playstation soldier referred to my service. OH. and VCP - can I be a real soldier like you now.....

The problem is you have come on here claming to be an ex NCO who has worked with ex SAS etc, yet everything you have posted is inaccurate, including the terminology you use. Your also also very defencive calling people armchair generals etc and now covering yourself saying you dont know much about the SAS because those who you worked alongside never talked about their service, yet it was you who originally came on this thread to have a pop at them,your displaying classic symptoms of walting.

Wicklowrider

This has decended from reasoned discussion into farce.

I initially questioned opinions that the SAS represented the pinnacle of special forces ability.
Some of these examples were challenged and I learnt ( and acknowledged) several things.

I have changed my view of the patrol south of the border incident - on reading up on it I now believe the SAS acted responsibly and honourably and people are alive because of this.
Don't know why anyone didn't beat me to this. - but hey, why use reason when cheap shots come naturally?
I mentioned my service only because twinytwo referred to me as an armchair general ( something troubleshooter missed out on before accusing me)and I took this as saying I hadn't served. I am honestly at a loss as to why anyone would think I was spoofing - I did not make out that I have done anything special. Regarding vernacular/soldier speak - honestly, can you not get over yourselves?( btw its absolutely pathetic to hear civvies using this lingo). Its a 1/4 of a century since I soldiered, I have left it behind. A lot of the vernacular bandied around here was not used back then and any ex Irish D.F bloke from then would confirm that.
Checkpoints were simply checkpoints, static or mobile (MSGs anyone?)
Anyway genuine thanks to those of you who engaged in reasoned and educated discussion - twinytwo, you made an intelligent comment before taking a very low swipe at me personally - I am genuinely mystified why you chose to do that. But hey, its the internet and neither standards nor honour are mandatory.

Good luck and thanks,

Wicklowrider, OUT.

supersportq

troubleshooter wrote: »

Do you have a link to your claim that 2 terrorists escaped at Loughall?

While Coogan may have links to the PIRA, he has no links to the SAS or RUC to make such a claim, please post a link.

It was the PIRA who realeased a satement after Loughall claiming members had shot their way out of an ambush...total bs.

It's in Tim Pat Coogans book THE IRA. If your that interested just look up the index for Loughgall which has a paragraph on the ambush. Their's also some stuff on your 'hero' Nairac.

And are you seriously going to tell me if a highly respected journalist publishes something on the north and if it's not backed up by the RUC or SAS - it's not true You may come from a long line of RUC/UDR/B Specials in your family, but for God's sake don't expect any Irish nationalist to believe that crowd of sectarian liars :rolleyes:

troubleshooter wrote: »

Not true, the SAS killed 28 members of East Tyrone brigade in 5 yrs, how could killing their top bombers not have an effect on the PIRA, East Tyrone were heavily involved in supporting South Armagh brigade and in Fermanagh, this is where the decline happened, East Tyrone had fair low levels of terrorist attacks in the first place, 7 killings in 2 yrs, 11 in the following 2 yrs,your simply posting SF/PIRA Bs/spin.

"The SAS ambush had no noticeable long-term effect on the level of IRA activity in East Tyrone. In the two years prior to the Loughgall ambush the IRA killed 7 people in East Tyrone and North Armagh, and 11 in the two years following the ambush.[5] Ed Moloney, Irish journalist and author of the A Secret History of the IRA, states that the brigade lost 53 members killed in the Troubles - the highest of any 'Brigade' area. Of these, 28 were killed between 1987 and 1992.[6] Most of the attacks which took place in County Fermanagh during this period of the Troubles were also launched from Tyrone and Monaghan.[7]"

Wiki :rolleyes: BTW, does the above highlighted line not contradict you ?

troubleshooter wrote: »

Once again do you have links for your claims/bs? The SAS never claimed Niairac as one of theirs, as with all det/14 Int operators KIA his parent reg was given.

As stated Nairac was the poster boy of the SAS until his invovlement with the loyalists was exposed. If anyone ( beside yourself of course) wants to see how this 'hero' was reported in the media after his abduction in 1977 then read the chapter on it in Ireland:The Propaganda War by Liz Curtis.

supersportq

I wonder about SF in other parts of the world. Countries such as Japan and Korea that have a history of producing warriors and fighting men second to no one in the world. Here in Ireland we mostly here about the Green Berets, Navy Seals, SAS etc. I haven't any doubt that their are fighting men from other backgrounds well capable of going toe to toe with other SF's.

DylanJM

supersportq can you give a source confirming Nairac as a badged member of the SAS. Everything thing I've seen has him down as 14 int, Which is NOT the SAS. It had members of the SAS serving in it but was not exclusively made up of SAS.

angry_bob

supersportq wrote: »

Totally agree with you. Their the most hyped up military unit in the world, no doubt about it. propably because Britian can no longer go on about how to rule the waves etc so they have to make up some fairytale about thier military brillance :rolleyes:. Whenever you watch a documentary about them it's just themselves bragging about how great they are, they never question the men they fought against for their opinions. And every documentary about them is always described with words like "amazing" "incredible" "outstanding" etc, etc

I'd say the police SWAT team's in America have proven themselves in many, many more situations to be more profficent. Not saying they haven't made cockups either, but the amount of raids on crack houses, heavily armed criminal gangs etc on an almost weekly basis keeps them on the top of their game. Unlike the SAS who merely simulate it in Hereford and hype themselves about a shoot out with a few Iranian students 30 years ago.

You are a Grade A arse, aren't you.


TimPat Coogan is probably one of the most respected journalists in Ireland and a recognised authority on the IRA. I happen to believe such people and not SAS fairytales.

LOL, talk about works of fiction.


that crowd of sectarian liars

You said it yourself


You were shot down in your response to the French Foreign Legion thread, and you have no idea what you're talking about here.
You really should take up a hobby.

troubleshooter

supersportq wrote: »

I wonder about SF in other parts of the world. Countries such as Japan and Korea that have a history of producing warriors and fighting men second to no one in the world. Here in Ireland we mostly here about the Green Berets, Navy Seals, SAS etc. I haven't any doubt that their are fighting men from other backgrounds well capable of going toe to toe with other SF's.

I dont dispute the above. There is no way to prove which SOF is the "best" as it cant be measured but the facts are the SAS possibly the oldest surviving SOF in the world, it has seen more combat and has more experience then any other SOF in the world, it has pioneered many of the black op tactics used by SOF units and its recruits have possibly the most ardous selection process of any SOF unit.

ynotdu

TimPat Coogan is probably one of the most respected journalists in Ireland and a recognised authority on the IRA.

Have You read Tim Pat Coogans biography's of both Collins and Dev?
For obvious reasons Dev's is a far longer read.
He is without doubt a fine writer who research's his books,despite his best efforts though he was unable to be 'neutral' about what side He was on.{something an Historian should never do.}

I can't help thinking that the OP has been badly served by most replys to his question,the best respone's IMO were the one's who said "there is no definative answer to the question"

I merely posted the SAS raid on the Iranian Embassy video because it is so easy to find compared to other operations by Special Services in other Countries,It was not meant as an endorsement of any Country over another!

It was important too that many special services operations from whatever Country can be very hum-drum was pointed out.

Most important to remember is that any soldier,from any Country is a human being behind the mask who has no idea if He/She will survive their orders and come out alive!

In the Case of high risk operations it has to be remembered that a troop has a fraction of a second to distinguish between friend or foe,Kill or be killed,It is a wonder many more innocents don't die given this truth.

Since the event of Suicide terrorists things are even more difficult.

In the case of the loss of life in the in the Cinema held by Chechynayn rebels,the big balls up was there was not enough anti-dote to the poison used to knock suicide bombers and their hostage's out cold.

In the case of the School were Checynyn rebels killed so many kids,if the version is to be believed one of the terrorists accidently released the pressure pad he had his foot on and set off the unexpected explosion were action had to be taken instantly.{The only good that came from that day was the rebels lost the support of their community and have not been a problem since}

after the English terrorist attacks on the underground and the bus, advice was sought from the Israeli Military as to how to best respond to somebody You believe to be wrapped in explosives and ready to die by pulling a string even though it was not a 'shoot to kill' policy until Israel decided the only solution was to shoot straight to the head in order that a terrorists last act might be to pull on the chord bringing innocent civilians with them.

This led to the death of the poor guy from Brazil being shot through the head when He hopped the barrier carrying a backpack just so He would catch the train in time in order to be on time for work.{Don't forget how many died in the Spanish train bombings and the Looney suicide bombers in Bali}

It was a total failure of communications between the Security force's watching his block of flats and those based at the underground.
The meaness shown to his family by the UK Govt was disgraceful{and as an aside the meaness shown to the Ghurka's who had to fight for British passports despite their skills saving so many English lives throughout history}

In the case of the Iranian Embassy siege the operation was left entirely in charge of the police until the very patient negotiators requested that the SAS plan was put into operation{Everything had been done to bring everybody out alive as a police operation}

There is many case's of State sponsored Terrorism by Military forces throughout history and the world{Most Countries hands are not clean}
but that would be for the Politics forum.

Poccington

WicklowRider is an ex member of the PDF.

The next person to call him a Walt etc. purely because they disagree with him, will be dealt with accordingly.

troubleshooter

Heres footage of a classic SAS/14 Int coy ambush against the PIRA in NI, a vast amount of sustained fire into the vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DipjwaH_2VA&feature=related





Heres a good film about the SAS in Oman, possibly the SAS's finest hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4-psnlKQU


one about the SAS role in the 77 Lufthansa hijacking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQevE34QoWo&feature=related