Anyone regret buying property?

SamG

I'm curious... We've heard all the arguments from all the vested interests, including govt. about the benefits of owning property and "getting on the ladder".

Anyone regret this now and look with envy on people still renting (longing for the days of crappy landlords and depressing wallpaper) or are you genuinely happy to be paying for your own place, confident that it'll all work out okay in the end?

Would love to hear some of your thoughts on this... do share.

I'll start - Having lived in France and having a French wife, we moved back here to Malahide, Co. Dubline, 6 years ago. Wife was always reluctant to buy (coming from a renting culture) and she thought the quality of Irish houses was pathetic. But me... being Irish (and not as bright as her) decided, NO, we need to stake our claim on this Celtic Tiger thingy and buy. So we saw a place we liked and decided to make an offer. A broker came around and we decided to go for an €800,000 mortgage (hey, it's Malahide and this was '07). But we never got our act together to actually fill in the forms and by the time we came around to doing it the market was well and truly crashing. I thank my stars every day but somewhere, in a parallel universe... there's another me who took that mortgage. And that guy is well and truly screwed. Meanwhile, in this one, I was saved from some very serious stress (possibly ruin) by a combination of continental savvy (very different from the Irish savvy, as practiced by Liz Kane and her ilk) and sheer luck. Cheers.

Mezcita

SamG wrote: »

I'm curious... We've heard all the arguments from all the vested interests, including govt. about the benefits of owning property and "getting on the ladder".

Anyone regret this now and look with envy on people still renting (longing for the days of crappy landlords and depressing wallpaper) or are you genuinely happy to be paying for your own place, confident that it'll all work out okay in the end?

Would love to hear some of your thoughts on this... do share.

I'll start - Having lived in France and having a French wife, we moved back here to Malahide, Co. Dubline, 6 years ago. Wife was always reluctant to buy (coming from a renting culture) and she thought the quality of Irish houses was pathetic. But me... being Irish (and not as bright as her) decided, NO, we need to stake our claim on this Celtic Tiger thingy and buy. So we saw a place we liked and decided to make an offer. A broker came around and we decided to go for an €800,000 mortgage (hey, it's Malahide and this was '07). But we never got our act together to actually fill in the forms and by the time we came around to doing it the market was well and truly crashing. I thank my stars every day but somewhere, in a parallel universe... there's another me who took that mortgage. And that guy is well and truly screwed. Meanwhile, in this one, I was saved from some very serious stress (possibly ruin) by a combination of continental savvy (very different from the Irish savvy, as practiced by Liz Kane and her ilk) and sheer luck. Cheers.

So a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet?

Pass.

Mezcita

Mezcita wrote: »

So a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet?

Pass.

And tell us all how he was about to borrow €800,000. Reminds me of the knob ends in the motors section who say recommend me a car for €loads and €loads.

D3PO

I bought back in 05 and dont regret it.

Yes I'm in negitive equity, but hey. I managed to get a tracker mortgage so ironically enough Im still paying less monthly than if I bought the same house right now even at the reduced market rate.

Im sure this will change before we hit the floor, but over the length of the mortgage I think having the tracker will probably end up making it work out better (depends how much further the markets fall i guess)

even if financially it ends up not being the ideal thing so be it. I bought in the area I want and am not stuck in a poorly built new build house or shoebox apartment.

However unsurprisingly the large majority of people in neg equity will have regreted it.

The_Morrigan

I'll Bite.

I don't regret it.
- I bought Summer 2008 -
- I'm not in negative equity -
- I love my apartment -

Yes, there are months when things are tight, but I'm not starving and I'm not in (bad) debt.
And if I had to do it all over again - I would
Not everyone is moaning about the state of the property market in Ireland - some people are quite happy with their lot, they just are the minority.

SamG

And tell us all how he was about to borrow €800,000. Reminds me of the knob ends in the motors section who say recommend me a car for €loads and €loads.

Yeah, I guess you can read it that way... Be vitriolic if you wish.

a thread where people can admit to being in huge amounts of negative equity while you get to bask in the delight that you dodged the bullet

I don't mean to gloat about anything... I'm just relaying my own story and want to hear the flipside. Buying property was sold as the only viable lifestyle option in this country for so many years and now all that has been turned on its head. But has it though? I think it's a valid question and worth exploring. Where better but here?

ei.sdraob

nope no regrets, if anything im quite happy about the path I took, still regularly check daft but nothing comes close

* completing the self-build now (about 10 month since the "adventure" started)
* putting in alot of extras like extra insulation, triple-glazing, heat recovery, solar etc
* nice peaceful location with land

and most importantly

no debt

OMD

No regrets. Bought first house about 10 years ago. Bought and sold a couple since then. Bought current house about 5 years ago. Probably not in negative equity (got a very large mortgage) but may be soon.

Reason I have a large mortgage is that I have a very good tracker and only a fool would pay it off early in current environment. Used the money I earned from buying and selling other houses to take 2 years off work to spend with my children and can currently afford to be part time. Had I decided 10 years ago to rent not buy then I would have paid way more in rent over that time than I have in interest and not have a house I love and have decorated as I want.

omahaid

Bought 10 years ago, so no, dont regret it

The_Conductor

I bought a reasonable sized townhouse 9 years ago in a great location. I'm not in negative equity- but I did pay over the odds at the time- and know I'll have problems selling, as there is a management company involved. At the time kids were not on the horizon, and considerations such as a garden etc, did not enter the equation. We are now stuck where we are- not in negative equity- but incapable of moving- and our current accommodation does not suit our current and future needs.

You don't need to be in negative equity- to be well and truly stuck........

Sydney2007

Bought a house in 2008. Up to my neck in debt and negative equity, and always one month away from defaulting. However, now have the house 2 years, and absolutely love it, and have no regrets at all. I am delighted - if I went to the Bank now for money, I don't think I'ld get enough for a bicycle!. I need it for the next 10-12 years, so if I can manage to hold on to it, hopefully the negative equity will be gone, and I can regard the payments to then as rent. In the meantime, I will have had exactly the house I want, in the place I want, and the security of not having to constantly move around and look for other suitable accommodation.

bernyh

Yep big regrets.... huge massive humungous regrets..... we put a deposit down in late 04, moved in in April 05, found out I was pregnant in May 05... not a big deal if we hadn't bought an apt... we were gonna sell in early 06 but decided as baby was only a few months old the hassle was too much for us at that moment..... but now!!! I am devestated we didn't sell for more than 100k profit, we might not have been sitting pretty but we would at least have a house. As it stands at the moment I can't see us having a house in the forseeable future...

We can't cope with the possibility of renting out this place and renting a house because we are too afraid of being left with payin a mortgage and rent if the apt is left empty for a period, which is very possible, if we can't cope with the way the neighbours are, I'm sure tenants will not be too please with it...

Caught in the proverbial "vicious circle!"

Dandelion6

I kind of regret it too. I've always tended to move around a lot and when I came to Dublin I thought I'd finally found the place I wanted to live forever. Bought a really great place on the affordable housing scheme a few years ago. Then the wanderlust came back and for the past couple years I've been dying to get out of here but I'm pretty much stuck - can't sell due to the state of the market, can't rent due to the AH conditions.

I don't totally regret it because it is a really nice place, but I do feel as though I succumbed to pressure to buy when it's not really in my nature to be tied down to one place for a long period of time.

I thought you couldn't sell an affordable house shortly after buying ? I may well be wrong.

dan_d

Hmm.Been thinking about this lately.Bought in April 08 after a year of research and reading the signs in the building industry. 4 bed, semi detached in a great place for us with an okay front and back garden - it's a 10 year old house in a nice estate. We got a good deal for the money at that time, we knew what was coming in the housing market, we got a tracker and had a deposit.

Recently a corner house in our estate went up for sale for 130000 less than what it had been up for last year. In a way I was kind of kicking myself because that would be great house to buy. On the other hand, we'd never have a hope in hell of getting a mortgage now - both site engineers.We'd be laughed out of the bank.

I think we are in maybe 50k of negative equity - it's hard to know. When we bought our one criteria was to buy a house that we could live in long term, because we knew sooner or later that things were going to go...probably sooner, as the building industry knew long before the media did what was happening. You hear stuff from the lads on site.At this point in time we've a good bit paid off the mortgage considering we've only had it just 2 years (15k) and right now, we can still afford it comfortably. If needs be we can convert a decent size attic and we have a big kitchen and living room, so plenty of space.

I think I don't regret it - because while there are great bargains out there now, we simply wouldn't get the mortgage, regardless of whether we could afford it or not. We've had some great times in our house, and all our friends visit, we've got lovely neighbours. Our thinking right now is that if we really want to move at some point, we'll look at paying the balance to be out of negative equity and work from there. It's not an insurmountable amount over 4/5 years - better than some people are stuck with I suppose - so no, I don't regret it.

It's not something I'd rub in people's faces however, as I feel so sorry for those who are stuck in a massive amount of neg equity and a small property. If that was me, I'd be in bits about it.

dan_d

OMD wrote: »

No regrets. Bought first house about 10 years ago. Bought and sold a couple since then. Bought current house about 5 years ago. Probably not in negative equity (got a very large mortgage) but may be soon.

Reason I have a large mortgage is that I have a very good tracker and only a fool would pay it off early in current environment. Used the money I earned from buying and selling other houses to take 2 years off work to spend with my children and can currently afford to be part time. Had I decided 10 years ago to rent not buy then I would have paid way more in rent over that time than I have in interest and not have a house I love and have decorated as I want.

OMD just re-read your post. Why do you say only a fool would pay off the tracker early at the moment? Surely reducing the capital of your mortgage would mean that when rates do go up, your payments are still less because your capital is?
PM if you don't want to completely derail the thread!!

D3PO

dan_d wrote: »

OMD just re-read your post. Why do you say only a fool would pay off the tracker early at the moment? Surely reducing the capital of your mortgage would mean that when rates do go up, your payments are still less because your capital is?
PM if you don't want to completely derail the thread!!

depending on your tracker deal you might be paying as little as 2% interest and maybe even less.

many bank accounts are offering better interest rates on savings than this. Therefore it would be foolish to pay off the tracker when the money would yield more in a savings account

MysticalSoul

I bought house in Cork in 2001, and sold in 2006 to buy apartment in Dublin in 2006. I don't regret it - yes, due to pay cuts etc, things are tight, however I do love it as is my place to make it as I wish. Am currently contemplating paint colours to repaint a room or two. I love that I can choose how to decorate it, and can also choose my own housemates when I rent a room out. Even though things may be tight financially, I am managing, and am not on the breadline yet. I, for one, am glad I bought. I never bought into the whole celtic tiger business, as I always felt anyone could see it could not last at the level it was.

At some point in the future I would hope to be able to buy a house, however am not stressing about that, as for now, I do love my apartment, and suits my needs perfectly.

Benedict

There is an element of shadenfreude about SamG's blog. And being Irish, we tend to be reluctant to admit we made an error. The people who say they are in Neg Eq but don't care, would leap at the chance of turning back the clock so they could walk away from the sale. But they will never admit that. Because nobody wants to be pitied.

But I think SamG's point is a good one insofar as it might help other to avoid NE. (Neg Eq). Because there are people buying today who are going to be in NE next year - not to the same extent - but the asking prices are still outrageous (average house in Dublin is x10 average annual wage).

If anyone out there is buying a house, offer 50% of the asking price. (Unless you like NE)

Be warned!

Millie

I have only one regret - I didn't do my homework in regard to the neighbourhood.

I bought a lovely little red brick cottage in 06 that I love but the house across the road that has been rented out to the HSE has caused me awful stress for the past two years.
It's currently unoccupied for the past number of weeks and the neighbourhood has been heavenly.

I didn't go overboard with the mortgage and would be surprised if I was in high negative equity (hopefully none).
On the plus side am glad it is a house and at least I don't have mangement charges to fork out.

D3PO

Benedict wrote: »

There is an element of shadenfreude about SamG's blog. And being Irish, we tend to be reluctant to admit we made an error. The people who say they are in Neg Eq but don't care, would leap at the chance of turning back the clock so they could walk away from the sale. But they will never admit that.
!

Not true.

• If I didnt buy I wouldnt have been able to get a tracker mortgage
• I would pay approx €800 per month to rent the same house (asking rents are 1k) where as I pay a little under €600 interest on the capital sum of my mortgage. The "wasted" money is therfore less by having my mortgage.
• I wouldnt have the freedom to decorate as I choose, to have the furniture that I choose.
• I would potentailly have to deal with EA's and Landlords who are muppets

Dont assume that because somebody is in "negitive equity" that they would jump at the chance to have not bought. Nobody said paying over the odds wasnt an "error"

paying for a new car is an "error" i mean you drive it out of the showroom and its devalued immediatly. Doesnt mean that people who buy new cars have to regret it.

quozl

D3PO wrote: »

[*]I would pay approx €800 per month to rent the same house (asking rents are 1k) where as I pay a little under €600 interest on the capital sum of my mortgage. The "wasted" money is therfore less by having my mortgage.

If you're going to work out wasted money then it should really be a comparision between (interest paid +/- capital depreciation/appreciation) versus (rent paid).

I'm pretty confident that the depreciation on the property I'm currently renting is more than the monthly rent. And I'd guess will continue to be so for at least another year, maybe multiple years.

Not having to deal with EAs is almost without price though

D3PO

quozl wrote: »

If you're going to work out wasted money then it should really be a comparision between (interest paid + capital depreciation) versus (rent paid).

.

Why should I ? your argument I assume is I could buy at a lower price due to depreciation right ?

who says Im not putting the difference between the rent & mortgage away for purchasing a second property down the line ? (im not by the way ive increased my AVC's for my pension taking advantage of the tax savings, and returns it will give me over the long term)

you cant do straight maths anyway. Assuming somebody will put away all the savings doesnt attribute for human nature which says people will spend more disposable income because they have more disposable income.

i wasnt trying to turn this into a figures conversation. I was just rebutting the comment that everybody in neg equity that says there happy enough is lying. Thats not the case

quozl

D3PO wrote: »

Why should I ? your argument I assume is I could buy at a lower price due to depreciation right ?

Not really, more that the extra money tied up in borrowings could be put into some other income generating source, instead of being lost over time to a depreciating asset. The money from which could go towards your AVCs etc.

I take your point about only wanting to disagree with the general statement about everybody in Negative Equity. I just disagree with one of your points and didn't want to leave it unopposed.

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

- but the asking prices are still outrageous (average house in Dublin is x10 average annual wage).

If anyone out there is buying a house, offer 50% of the asking price. (Unless you like NE)

Be warned!

Benedict we have been through this before. Average property in Dublin is about 6 times average wage at about €230,000. The average price outside Dublin is about €175,000 or 4.5 times average wage. (actual figures from ESRI will be released in next few weeks).

As D3PO has said rising intrest rates are going to be a huge problem for people buying in the future. In the UK bank interest rates are 0.5% compared to 1% for us in Eurozone. Despite their rate being half ours their mortgage rates are generally much higher than ours. People buying next year or the year after will have to pay a much higher interest rate than someone who bought a few years ago.

My current interest rate is 1.75%. No one will ever in the future get a better rate than that. I may soon go into negative equity but my repayments will be less than someone who buys a similar house to mine at a lower price.

So for example someone borrowing €300,000 over 30 years at 1.75% will pay €1069 a month
Someone buying the same property next year at €200,000 over 30 years at 4.75% will pay €1031

irlrobins

No regrets.

I was trying to purchase a property for a few years but always found that despite my savings and salary going up, prices rose quicker. But this proved to be a good thing as last year the gap between what I wanted and what I could afford disappeared.

I now own a 2 bed apt right on the Luas line. 20 mins door to door for work. Nice small development, high build quality etc. Extremely happy with my purchase. I'm a single male btw, so no concerns about out growing the place in the next few years.

Also have the advantage that due to many years of saving when I was unable to purchase meant I only have to get a 80% mortgage.

OMD

OMD wrote: »

Benedict we have been through this before. Average property in Dublin is about 6 times average wage at about €230,000. The average price outside Dublin is about €175,000 or 4.5 times average wage. (actual figures from ESRI will be released in next few weeks).

Benedict is still peeved because he need house prices to be at 25% of what they currently are before he can buy

Benedict

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Nobody is gloating - but if people don't recognise the dangers, it will happen again - and is currently happening - though with smaller sums involved.

D3PO

quozl wrote: »

Not really, more that the extra money tied up in borrowings could be put into some other income generating source, instead of being lost over time to a depreciating asset. The money from which could go towards your AVCs etc.

I take your point about only wanting to disagree with the general statement about everybody in Negative Equity. I just disagree with one of your points and didn't want to leave it unopposed.

true thats why I didnt want to take this thread in a maths direction. You have valid points and do I.

Every situation is different there is no one size fits all here. I just wanted to rebut the poster who said that anybody whos in neg equity that says their happy isnt telling the truth.

we all could make better financial decisions all the time that doesnt mean we regret not making them.

every financial winner means theirs a loser on the other end thats capitalism for you.

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Ah, so a journalist with The Sunday Tribune is right and the ESRI is wrong. :rolleyes:

Benedict wrote: »

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Well of course they wouldn't be happy, but how many people do you think did that? The vast majority of people in this country did not buy at the peak. People are saying they are comfortable with their negative equity. Others are saying they are not happy. Why do you find it strange that these 2 situations can exist at the same time?

D3PO

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Be that as it may, the notion that a person who has queued overnight to pay 700k for a 2 bed apartment now worth 250k (if they can find a buyer) is absurd - tracker loan or not! The truth is, they're financially destroyed for decades - maybe for life. And 2 bed apartment in good Dublin areas were getting up to 700k at the height of the boom!

Nobody is gloating - but if people don't recognise the dangers, it will happen again - and is currently happening - though with smaller sums involved.

ah the property section of a rag thats been proven wrong lots and lots over the last few years. Yep gotta believe what they print :rolleyes:

as for wages falling 10% over the next year says who ? There is no way that will happen. Disposible income may fall by that amount but wages will not.

a quick tot of my 10 closest friends (6 have had pay rises this year, 3 pay freezes and 1 a pay cut)

Fighting Irish

I regret not buying a house in the 90s and selling it in 06

HardyEustace

D3PO wrote: »

ah the property section of a rag thats been proven wrong lots and lots over the last few years. Yep gotta believe what they print :rolleyes:

as for wages falling 10% over the next year says who ? There is no way that will happen. Disposible income may fall by that amount but wages will not.

a quick tot of my 10 closest friends (6 have had pay rises this year, 3 pay freezes and 1 a pay cut)

What areas do your friends work in? That's definitely bucking the normal trend.

cgc5483

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

The ERSI have it at 250,872 which is a more reliable source than the Sunday Times

http://www.esri.ie/irish_economy/permanent_tsbesri_house_p/

Benedict wrote: »

There is an element of shadenfreude about SamG's blog. And being Irish, we tend to be reluctant to admit we made an error. The people who say they are in Neg Eq but don't care, would leap at the chance of turning back the clock so they could walk away from the sale. But they will never admit that. Because nobody wants to be pitied.

While you do have some valid points i think you are making some rash generalisations. You need to actually accept that some people (myself including) couldn't give 2 hoots about being in negative equity. Some people did buy houses to live in long term and not to turn over after a few years.

D3PO

HardyEustace wrote: »

What areas do your friends work in? That's definitely bucking the normal trend.

6 with payrises

2 Fund accountants
1 credit underwriter
1 accountant
1 project manager
1 software develloper

3 with pay freezes

2 teachers
1 secretary

1 with paycut

engineer

im not saying this is the trend around the place but when your talking about 10% averge paycut when the croke park agreement means payfreezes and not paycuts for the biggest employer in the state and that some places are still paying increases (Im sure I read the ESB not listed abouve are another) that 10% paycuts on average thsi year doesnt add up

Zamboni

OMD wrote: »

My current interest rate is 1.75%. No one will ever in the future get a better rate than that. I may soon go into negative equity but my repayments will be less than someone who buys a similar house to mine at a lower price.

So for example someone borrowing €300,000 over 30 years at 1.75% will pay €1069 a month
Someone buying the same property next year at €200,000 over 30 years at 4.75% will pay €1031

Thanks for posting that.
Most people seem to see dropping house prices and think its awesome for potential buyers.
People ask me why I am not buying as there is great 'value' in the market.
The changing cost of finance does not even enter most peoples heads. Crazy stuff!

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

OMD - I won't labour the point about the income multiple related to average house purchase price. But in a recent article in the Sunday Trib. Property Section, they were adamant that the average price of a house in Dublin was 343K. And I think that you pitch the average wage too high also - and remember that the average wage has fallen and is set to fall up to a further 10% in the coming 12 months.

Benedict, I looked up that tribune article. http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jun/06/just-how-low-can-the-market-go/?q=Property
They get their figures from a website called myhat.ie.
http://myhat.ie/blog/?p=879

What they did was look at the asking price of all properties sale agreed since the start of the year and got an average of them. That is obviously a ridiculous way to estimate the market. People can question the ESRI figures but at least they have a lot more credibility than that kind of nonsense.

But hey look on the bright side you said this Sunday Tribune figure showed prices were going to drop 50%. Already today they have dropped 33% from your figure.

quozl

In regards to basing anything on myhat, myhat.ie also saw upward movement of house prices in March 2009.
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19812

And this June too http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31072&p=398469&hilit=myhat.ie#p398469

Not only does the methodology appear daft, the results it provides also look pure daft.

Benedict

Nobody is talking about mild NE. But anyone who is comfortable with serious NE must be in a small minority and we are speaking here in general terms. Anyone "comfortable" with serious NE is simply not aware of the implications. For their sakes, I hope they stay that way!

danbohan

Benedict wrote: »

Nobody is talking about mild NE. But anyone who is comfortable with serious NE must be in a small minority and we are speaking here in general terms. Anyone "comfortable" with serious NE is simply not aware of the implications. For their sakes, I hope they stay that way!

what does it matter whether they are comfortable or not , its a fact of life their is no choice only deal with and build your life and future around it if you can . anybody that has job , with current intrest rates should not have major problems , yes he may have stay put longer than he planned but its not insurmountable

OMD

Benedict wrote: »

Nobody is talking about mild NE.

I think just about everyone but you is. The thread is titled "anyone regret buying?" Some do some don't. It is not called "anyone here in massive negative equity and happy about it"

DJDC

A very interesting thread from a pyschological point of view as it shows how people try to justify failed financial decisions using a number of flawed concepts. I disagree with this just being an Irish problem, its a basic human personality trait where people attempt to justify mistakes to make the internal healing process easier.

The basic arguements of the current arguement seem to be as follows:

1) I am glad I got my mortgage in 04-08 as I would not be able to get one now

Well then should be a worry then. You are refused a mortgage for a reason. Examples include lower wages, increased probability of redundancy, poorer economic envirnoment etc. These default probabilities are independent of whether you have the mortgage or not. Therefore, surely it would be better to be refused a mortgage now rather than having the mortgage from 04-08 as the default probability today is the same in both cases.

2) I took advantage of low interest rates/tracker mortages etc which I would be unable to get now.

The vast majority of mortgages taken out in 04-08 had 25+ year terms. You may have fixed the initial years of the mortgage at low rates, however for most this will not have impacted the actual principle P to be paid as interest payments are frontloaded. You still owe P + remaining interest while the asset itself is now only worth e.g. 0.5 P. The small gain in lower interest payments is vastly exceeded by the loss in the value of the house.

Think about it.

Dandelion6

RoverJames wrote: »

I thought you couldn't sell an affordable house shortly after buying ? I may well be wrong.

Yes you can, but if you sell within 20 years you'll be subject to a clawback to the council on any proceeds you make above the price that you paid for it.

D3PO

DJDC wrote: »

2) I took advantage of low interest rates/tracker mortages etc which I would be unable to get now.

The vast majority of mortgages taken out in 04-08 had 25+ year terms. You may have fixed the initial years of the mortgage at low rates, however for most this will not have impacted the actual principle P to be paid as interest payments are frontloaded. You still owe P + remaining interest while the asset itself is now only worth e.g. 0.5 P. The small gain in lower interest payments is vastly exceeded by the loss in the value of the house.

Think about it.

You dont understand this point at all

25 year term on a tracker at ECB plus .75% and inflated price from 04 versus 25
year term at todays price with todays interest rates with the likelyhood of margin increases

guess who ends up paying more over the full term of the mortgage ?

think about it

AARRRRGH

I had my 30 year mortgage paid for in 10 years with over payments as well as maxing out my pension contributions.
The celtic tiger was good to me and i make no excuses. I rode it like id ride Cheryl Cole. Hard and fast for as long as she'd let me.
The only thing i do regret is that i paid off the mortgage that quickly when i had a tracker mortgage. I could have banked that like a previous poster said and made a few quid on the difference in rates.

Benedict

The fact that honest Irish men and women were fooled into paying up to 4 or even 5 times what a property was worth? Doesn't matter! Yerrah what the hell! Tis only money! Yerrah will ye stop complaining and move on!

Irish people have been traumatised by the scandal of the property bubble! Decent people's lives have been destroyed.

And it is happening now! Today! Asking prices are, in general, double what they should be.

Many people buying now, will be in tears this time next year if they believe the lie that the market has "bottomed out".

We should be shouting from the rooftops! Not mumbling about negative equity being "comfortable"!

The_Morrigan

Benedict wrote: »

The fact that honest Irish men and women were fooled into paying up to 4 or even 5 times what a property was worth? Doesn't matter! Yerrah what the hell! Tis only money! Yerrah will ye stop complaining and move on!

Irish people have been traumatised by the scandal of the property bubble! Decent people's lives have been destroyed.

And it is happening now! Today! Asking prices are, in general, double what they should be.

Many people buying now, will be in tears this time next year if they believe the lie that the market has "bottomed out".

We should be shouting from the rooftops! Not mumbling about negative equity being "comfortable"!

Benedict - just a question here, but would you be of the same mindset if you bought a top of the range tv for a couple of grand and two months later the same tv's price was slashed....I'm just wondering and not trying to start an argument.

This is how I treat the whole property bubble, negative equity, overpriced assets etc... I didn't buy my home to make a profit, I bought it to live in. I'm not in negative equity yet, but even if I was, it won't affect me until I go to sell or need to remortgage - so right now I'm very happy with my home.

To be honest, if I whinged everytime I bought something and then realised a few weeks/months later the same thing is half the price or less I'd be demented by now and would probably have thrown myself off my loverly balcony.
You have to live in the present and plan for the future, the past needs to be learnt from then left alone. Everything rises to fall, and everything falls to rise again - tis life, sometimes it sucks, other times it doesn't, wouldn't be life otherwise.

ztoical

No regrets as I work as an artist and if I didn't buy I'd be paying two rents as I would have to rent somewhere to live and a studio space to work. Buying a house let me rip two rooms apart for a studio which I couldn't do in a rented space.

Benedict

Oh it's true! There's no point in letting it get you down - but at the same time - brushing it under the carpet will make it more likely that others will make the same mistake. (And paying 50% too much for a TV is completely different to paying 50% too much for a house!)

Surely it is wrong to say nothing when you see hard-working people still innocently walking themselves into paying 300k for a property that will be worth 180k in 12 months time - and will not be 300k again for at least a generation.

People who spoke out some years ago were told by Bertie to "go and commit suicide". Complaining can be a good thing!

The_Morrigan

Benedict wrote: »

Oh it's true! There's no point in letting it get you down - but at the same time - brushing it under the carpet will make it more likely that others will make the same mistake. (And paying 50% too much for a TV is completely different to paying 50% too much for a house!)

Surely it is wrong to say nothing when you see hard-working people still innocently walking themselves into paying 300k for a property that will be worth 180k in 12 months time - and will not be 300k again for at least a generation.

People who spoke out some years ago were told by Bertie to "go and commit suicide". Complaining can be a good thing!

I was just curious - I know people at work who are constantly whinging about Ireland, its property market, its taxes, cost of living etc etc. but would they move?? - Not a chance, cos then they'd have nothing to complain about. They also don't complain constructively - if I have an issue with a company or product, I will write an email or letter and voice my opinion - I'm not nasty about it, but I will highlight a problem or concern I have and ask that it be rectified so someone else won't have to endure the same.

Benedict

What's done is done - but warning buyers to beware in the future is not whinging! It's advising! Telling a child to look before crossing the road is not whinging, it's advising! It's not whinging to warn buyers that current asking prices are still stupid and if you pay anywhere near them, you could be in trouble in the near future. There are a lot of financially damaged people out there who wish more people were "whinging" when they were fooled into mortgaging their lives away for massively overpriced houses.