Partially Torn ACL

TheBastard

Well i just found out i've partially Torn my ACL.

Now i know there is a few threads on here about ACL tears but none that i can see about Partially Torn.

Has anyone got back to a decent level of Fitness? or even Pain Free?

Mod Note: Not looking for Medical Advice! i have a Physio and a GP- i'm just looking for Personal Stories of recovery!


Thanks

connollys

Sorry, cant help ya. In recovery of a ACL reconstruction at the minute. 5 weeks post op.

TheBastard

out of interest- how much did it cost? or did you have Health Insurance? and did you have to contribute anything?

connollys

I got it through the public system. I paid for an MRI myself and then once they seen I had a fully torn ACL I got an appointment with surgeon pretty quick after that. Agreed to do the surgery and I went on a short term notice list. Wasnt too bad, only had to wait bout 3 months from initial meeting as someone else cancelled last minute and I agreed to take that spot.

TheBastard

I'min limbo which is a pain in the swiss roll as since its not fully torn they might not do a reconstruction on it. Its a nightmare of an injury. I'd go on the public system too- 3 months isnt bad at all. i thought it would be a year!!

gstack

I partially tore mine in a BJJ comp a few years ago. TBH it was sore for a few days and then settled down but I did notice my leg was slightly unstable a couple of weeks after in training . I went to a physio who diagnosed it as bruised cartilage saw him for a few sessions and found it wasnt improving. I then went to a recommended physio who diagnosed partially torn ACL which was confirmed a week later with MRI . he told me that the joint wasnt lax at all and that from the MRI my meniscii and other ligaments around the knee were fine. he said my options were surgery and 9-10 months off or conservative rehab treatment . I was 32-33 at the time and thought if i took 9 months off that would be the end of my training. I decided to go the rehab route and it worked quite well for me. I have full ROM on the affected knee and compete in Olympic weightlifting pain free. There is a slight strength imbalance between both legs but most likely this will be the case anyway if you get the surgery. I am expecting that the ACL may well go entirely at some stage in the future or that I will opt to get it repaired at a later stage.

If you go the conservative rehab route you will need to take at least 3-4 months and do the necessary work to strengthen the muscles around your knee and retrain your proprioception on that leg. You also most likely will have to work on that leg continously at least while you want to train or compete .
Also I cant emaphasise enough going to someone rehab wise who knows what they are talking about. Personally after initially doing a lot of work with the physio I went to Will Heffernan of http://informedperformance.com/
and wouldnt hesitate to recommend him. just to lay my cards out I am a member of that gym as well but I initially met Will to help rehab my knee.

So I suppose to sum up for me it wasnt worth the hassle of getting surgery at the time. I worked really hard on the rehab and now have full ROM and am pain free and can train compete in the sports I love.

I know however if I dont continously work on the knee that it will deteriorate and I also fully expect that it may completly tear one day and I will end up getting the surgery anyways.

hope that helps.

TheBastard

I have a very good Physio at the monet but he can only begin to treat me now as i've only found out now (4 months after my injury) what the problem actually was.

The pain and the sensation in my knee is what i really want to get rid of.
If i thought i could get back to a fairly normal life i would go the rehab route. My leg is fairly strong at the monent- as i have done alot of work to get it to where it is.

did it take long for the pain in your knee to go away??

just called the hospital and they said it could be a year wait to see someone!!! FFS we have such a **** health system!

gstack

It took about 6 months to where it wasnt constantly achey anymore but about a year for it to be painfree, didnt really stop me training just used a lot of icepacks and advil.

I would say that no matter how good your physio is you also need to see a strength and conditioning coach with experience in rehab if you want to get back playing or training .

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Well i just found out i've partially Torn my ACL.

Now i know there is a few threads on here about ACL tears but none that i can see about Partially Torn.

Has anyone got back to a decent level of Fitness? or even Pain Free?

Mod Note: Not looking for Medical Advice! i have a Physio and a GP- i'm just looking for Personal Stories of recovery!


Thanks

I thought I'd post this here for you to check out and because if you email or post questions in his log you can probably get some straight answers.

The gimpy knee log

We've plenty of stories because we tend to have mostly athletes training here (and injuries tend to be a part of sport) and tend to have people seek us out when it comes to rehab.

As usual not sure whether this is bad form on boards but gstack told me he'd posted here and I thought the op might actually want some proper advice

Any way...long story short...rehab is easy...if you know what your doing...we've lots of athletes busy getting on with competition who were told either they shouldn't or wouldn't compete again.

“I've worked closely with Will for many years and while his training was always innovative it was equally practical and I benefited as a result. Having suffered several career threatening injuries, I would credit Will with prolonging my football career through his conditioning methods, particularly with the club after I had retired from inter-county level. I am delighted to endorse Will’s work.” – Dessie Farrell, former Dublin football captain, CEO of the Gaelic Players Assoc.

I just threw that in because I know some people here love to rubbish me...and they can argue all they like with me but who wants to rubbish dozens of Ireland's sporting stars.

It's my new stategy....everytime someone here rubbishs me I'll post a counter testimonial and leave it up to the people that matter to decide who's opinion might be worth considering

Anyway...TheBastard...you're as welcome as anyone else here on boards to swing by the gym and have a chat about your injury and the best way to improve properly rehab it.

the drifter

Thread cleaned up and reopend at OP's request.....keep it on topic please

Barry.Oglesby

Hey look everyone! There's something in this link

And while they're all distracted, the rest of you can look at some of what we do for knees

TheBastard

Would that work for a torn ACL?

It seems i'm the only one with a partially torn ACL!

gstack

Read what I posted again.

connollys

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hey look everyone! There's something in this link

And while they're all distracted, the rest of you can look at some of what we do for knees

Cheers for that. 6 weeks post a "knee dysfunction" operation myself so will defo try out some of those linked exercises.

TheBastard

Tried the things in that video- didnt help- i think you need to fix the problem before you can do exercises to get the knee working again.

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Tried the things in that video- didnt help- i think you need to fix the problem before you can do exercises to get the knee working again.

Well there you go...it was a complete waste of time then.

What's it been...2 weeks? Yeah that should be plenty of time for your knee to be fully repaired from a partial acl tear and for you to assess whether or not the exercises were a complete waste of time

TheBastard

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Well there you go...it was a complete waste of time then.

What's it been...2 weeks? Yeah that should be plenty of time for your knee to be fully repaired from a partial acl tear and for you to assess whether or not the exercises were a complete waste of time

Ok well it 5 months since the injury- i know how to assess if my knee was getting better- your video would help if my knee was recovered from the damaged acl and i was trying to build it back up!

i wasnt trying to diss your training- but your training isnt magic and can repair the ACL. I wish it did:(

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Ok well it 5 months since the injury- i know how to assess if my knee was getting better- your video would help if my knee was recovered from the damaged acl and i was trying to build it back up!

i wasnt trying to diss your training- but your training isnt magic and can repair the ACL. I wish it did:(

I was taking the piss...don't worry...people obviously think I am much more sensitive than I am.

mattdam0n

@connollys
I see you've had your ACL operation done with Fintan Shannon in Galway. I've just torn my ACL and my GP has recommended him. Just wondering how is the knee now? Do you have any pain? Are you back playing sports?

P.S. if anyone else has any experience of having ACL surgery done with him or another guy Stephen Kearns I would appreciate the feedback

narwog81

mattdamon, seeing as your based in galway i would highly recommend Padraig Murray in the Galway Clinic.

I got my surgery with him nearly a year ago to the day and im just on my way out the door now to play a rugby match:D

seriously though i cant reccomend him enough, very experienced and professional, sees a lot of sports injuries and is very helpful during the recovery phase.

in saying that though the surgery is the easy part, get yourself a good sports physio and really work the rehab and you'll be back in action after the 6 months. good luck!

mattdam0n

@narwog Cheers for that. I'm curious has your hamstring weakened as a result of the op? Do you have any pain in the knee? Were you back playing within the 6 months?

narwog81

mattdam0n wrote: »

@narwog Cheers for that. I'm curious has your hamstring weakened as a result of the op? Do you have any pain in the knee? Were you back playing within the 6 months?

no weakness a tall in the hammers, i'd strongly recommend getting an ISO-Kinetic test done before your surgery ( i got mine in the Galway clinic but there are other places).

basically it tests the strength, power and endurance of both quads and hammers and then you test again at the 6 month mark post op. its a great way of measuring your recovery and also spotting any strength imbalances that could lead to further trouble.

i do still have some pain in the knee, after the match on sat it was quite swollen after i fell awkwardly on it, to be honest it will be never be good as new again, just need to really strengthen the muscle in the injured leg, especially the quad.

6 months is the minimum recovery time, unless your a pro athlete and have intensive rehab i personally feel you should respect the time frame and dont rush back too early. i had a partial tear first time round and came back too early and sure enough i tore it fully shortly afterwards.

you'll be running comfortably after about 4 months and 5+ months you'll be able for non-contact training (twisting, pivoting etc) but make sure its right before ya go back to sport properly

Giggipaws

TheBastard wrote: »

Well i just found out i've partially Torn my ACL.

Now i know there is a few threads on here about ACL tears but none that i can see about Partially Torn.

Has anyone got back to a decent level of Fitness? or even Pain Free?

Mod Note: Not looking for Medical Advice! i have a Physio and a GP- i'm just looking for Personal Stories of recovery!


Thanks

Hi,

I had a surgery on my left knee after I torn (completely) ligament in skiing accident few years ago (in January).

My doc (the one who did the surgery) was not happy with any kind of rehabilitation but cycling. It was not giving me good results (because of few reasons - main one being that he waited with the surgery for few weeks!!! and so the condition got much worse and I lost almost all muscles on my leg -> athropy)
He kept being very conservative with the rehabilitation program for couple of weeks (cycling and hydrotherapy only - exercises in the pool) and as it was not doing me any good I decided to try my own 'path of recovery'...:)

First, I decided to see a (physio) knee specialist who sent me to Ultrasound and that kicked off my recovery in right direction. I noticed the difference immediately and I was getting better every day. I am not sure how many sessions I had, probably 7 or 10 or so.

After that, he designed my routine composed of many isometric contractions exercises (few times a day, all muscle groups on the leg, for a week or so - I felt a lot of pain in the knee as the tendons started to 'wake up' and move, they were all somehow glued to the bone and cartilage structures...)

Then I started to walk more and more every day, giving myself targets in meters, where I want to get on that day (shop, bus stop, etc... :rolleyes: (I was really in a bad shape by then and had to walk with crutches if I had to walk more than 200m)/
And then, when I left the crutches completely behind...I started the strength training: half squads, lunges, leg press etc. Mind you I started with no weights at all - so weak my left leg was. Adding weights step by step, getting to full squads, training the rest of my body too... etc.
Was back on slopes that year ( in December) - not in great shape but good enough to work as a ski instructor. However, I have do admit that I had to work for another year to get back to the shape I was in before the injury.

I have to add that I had huge problems with my back as well because after so many weeks of no movement it was completely out of balance. I paid extra money for a special physio who was using a technique called MFK - which activates different reflex points, tender and trigger points in the body. The screening for this technique is done by the computer - and the software decides which points to press in order to reactivate the weakest muscles first. God, the first session was hell of pain, I have to say.... but got better with time.

So, MFK, ultrasound, isometric and then strength exercises worked for me
That's my story, hope it helps... sorry it is bit too long...

Giggipaws

TheBastard

Thanks for the replies- Knee has calmed down pain wise. Having trouble with my Knee cap now as the tracking seems to be off. Knee feels a bit rusty but i'm up in the gym working it hard- think i'm gonna have to retire from football at 27. I dont want to risk an injury and i cant keep fit. Its more important i can run and swim and use a cross trainer to keep in decent shape than to play football.

Its a pity i loved football and i was injury free untill this injury. I wasnt a bad player either :rolleyes: and i would love to be still playing but i noticed playing Astro was getting too rough- had recieved a few elbows and stupid tackles from idiots. :mad:

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Thanks for the replies- Knee has calmed down pain wise. Having trouble with my Knee cap now as the tracking seems to be off. Knee feels a bit rusty but i'm up in the gym working it hard- think i'm gonna have to retire from football at 27. I dont want to risk an injury and i cant keep fit. Its more important i can run and swim and use a cross trainer to keep in decent shape than to play football.

That's a bit sad...especially at 27.

Its a pity i loved football and i was injury free untill this injury. I wasnt a bad player either :rolleyes: and i would love to be still playing but i noticed playing Astro was getting too rough- had recieved a few elbows and stupid tackles from idiots. :mad:

I've brought a lot of guys from a lot worse. All the best with your training in the future though. No one knows your body as well as you do and if enough is enough it always has to be your call.

TheBastard

Yeah will- The achey feeling is gone but the knee cap is causing me trouble- especially when i'm walking and my leg is a full extention and the leg is in the bacwards moments- if you get me? its like the knee cap is too tight and it doesnt feel right. I'm starting to do those excercises you put up and the acl has healed to a decent amount i think.

Hard to accept especially since i've been very lucky and never had an injury. I'd got to a high level of fitness and could run for ever. i was a box to box type player- i think that why i feel its over for football.

Out of interest did you think Shefflin was an idiot playing without an ACL?

connollys

Tennyson survived the entire game with same injury so dont think Shefflin was an idiot, was worth a shot, especially as was gonna be last game of the season eitherway, though im sure his club aren too happy.

DDPT

In short:

a % of us do not have a cruciate

in the 80s they were left alone

in the 90s we went crazy repairing them

Research: inconclusive re: Sx reduces risk of OA or not

Bottom line:

try rehab it functionally (bike, mini squats, row, swim (NO BREASTROKE))

if it keeps giving way = no option but to get it repaired.

it depends on your functional ability and how it effects your daily life.

this varies depending on
1) your size, weight, etc
2) level of musculature
3) tasks needed from your knee
4) etc....

hope this helps

D

Blindside87

I injured mine...wasn't a tear but wasn't far off. Was on cruches for a while...a year later im squating 130 kg but havent gone back playing sport. The real worry is changing direction...hoping to go back next week and see how it is!

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Yeah will- The achey feeling is gone but the knee cap is causing me trouble- especially when i'm walking and my leg is a full extention and the leg is in the bacwards moments- if you get me? its like the knee cap is too tight and it doesnt feel right. I'm starting to do those excercises you put up and the acl has healed to a decent amount i think.

Good stuff.

Hard to accept especially since i've been very lucky and never had an injury. I'd got to a high level of fitness and could run for ever. i was a box to box type player- i think that why i feel its over for football.

Like I said...you are the only person that is really going to know.

Out of interest did you think Shefflin was an idiot playing without an ACL?

Not at all...Sheflin and Hartman got a lot of press but I've had lots of players compete with worse...they actually just had a bit more time to prepare for matches...he basically just ran out of time...another week or tow would have made a lot of difference.

These type of injuries and the recovery from them is really dependent on your level of strength and conditioning prior to the injury and how much time and effort your willing to put into your recovery.

soc$

TheBastard wrote: »

Yeah will- The achey feeling is gone but the knee cap is causing me trouble- especially when i'm walking and my leg is a full extention and the leg is in the bacwards moments- if you get me? its like the knee cap is too tight and it doesnt feel right. I'm starting to do those excercises you put up and the acl has healed to a decent amount i think.

Hard to accept especially since i've been very lucky and never had an injury. I'd got to a high level of fitness and could run for ever. i was a box to box type player- i think that why i feel its over for football.

Out of interest did you think Shefflin was an idiot playing without an ACL?

When I was 21 I started having a lot of problems with my knee - took 5 years of me being an idiot (training/playing through pain and swelling) and a few crap physios until I finally took the time to get sorted. Problem was finally diagnosed (by prof maura o'brien & dublin sports and physio) as slight misalignment of my patella (tracking was out) - at this point I'd an MRI and diagnosed with osteo-arthtritis and advised to quit sport (hurling & alpine skiing). I had already had a minor cartilidge repair at 17 (by ray moran) so knew I had some wear and tear then -

Long story short - I refused to quit - worked really hard with the physios doing rehab with taping of the knee cap - got a good set of orthotics and after about 6 months went back to competitive sport and at 36 made olympics in my last year before retiring.

It can be done with hard work and some good medical people.

Giggipaws

soc$ wrote: »

It can be done with hard work and some good medical people.

Exactly, I totally agree. Weight training and (my own strong will) saved my knee, 100%!

If your leg muscles get strong, and I mean really strong.... then your knee would get much better.

However, you need to be wise and take it slowly, not to do squads with 50kg on your back on your first day in the gym

All the best,
Giggipaws

TheBastard

Well i think the ACL has healed up now but my Knee cap is acting up. Cant walk that great- going to a consultant next week to see what he thinks.

My knee has always been 100% never had any issues with it. One injury and its been a disaster havent kicked a ball in 6 months.

Anyone ever have jumpers knee? Experiences??

My MRIsaid i have small amount of effusion on the joint, maybe thats causing me problems.

Will Heffernan

TheBastard wrote: »

Well i think the ACL has healed up now but my Knee cap is acting up. Cant walk that great- going to a consultant next week to see what he thinks.

My knee has always been 100% never had any issues with it. One injury and its been a disaster havent kicked a ball in 6 months.

Anyone ever have jumpers knee? Experiences??

My MRIsaid i have small amount of effusion on the joint, maybe thats causing me problems.

I'll work backwards through your post....small amount of effusion...so would just about anyone who has played sport...if you MRI'ed them.

Jumpers knee...not me but have had athletes with it...experiences...proper rehab and return to training/competition.

Everybody always thinks they are 100%...in my experience...they're not...I see this all the time...people say 'my shoulder is perfect...never had a problem...then I injured it'....their shoulder was often a mess beforehand...they were an accident waiting to happen as they say.

See it with knees as well....they have an underlying issue...they injure themselves and think it came out of the blue...this is very rarely the case.
They get better and the underlying issue is still there and they think that it's as a result of the injury rather than the cause of it etc etc.

Let us know what the consultant says.

Best of luck.

Giggipaws

TheBastard wrote: »

Well i think the ACL has healed up now but my Knee cap is acting up. Cant walk that great- going to a consultant next week to see what he thinks.

My knee has always been 100% never had any issues with it. One injury and its been a disaster havent kicked a ball in 6 months.

Anyone ever have jumpers knee? Experiences??

My MRIsaid i have small amount of effusion on the joint, maybe thats causing me problems.

Hi again,

I am bit confused by you saying ACL is healed, but hopefully that really is the case (just seems bit too quick to me...:)) Effusion is quite common however it should not be left untreated - because if you leave it, it might cause additional problems and you live in a vicious circle...

Jumper's knee (Patellar Tendinopathy) is a very different condition compared to your ACL partial torn, it affects completely different part of your knee.
It is rather degenerative condition affecting patellar tendon (that joins your kneecap to your shin bone and tibia). This condition is usually developed by athletes who do a lot of jumping (e.g. blocking in volleyball, etc).

There is another condition called Patellar Tendonitis - that is 'just' an inflammation of the very same tendon. But Jumper's knee is more serious that inflammation and therefore the treatment is quite complex. It depends on the stage of the injury; there are 4 different grades and the 4th grade might even require surgery.

Your specialist needs to do thorough check up and then decide what to do. If no surgery needed, then a good rehabilitation, strengthening and stretching exercises combined with massage usually are what helps. The tendon needs to heal. It will take time but if your will behave responsibly, and if your physio will prepare good exercises for you, you have a great chances to be back to active live in a very reasonable time.

Good luck!;)
Giggipaws

PS: And don't think negatively! Injury is part of sport and if you use your time wisely, it can make you stronger psychologically - if your work with your feelings...read about it, google it (the psychology of injury, or recovery techniques for atheles etc) ...just do not allow yourself to go really down... Many athletes do recover much quicker then the others just by believing that THEY JUST GONNA make it! Keep it up!

TheBastard

Hey when i say its healed- its not aching me anymore- the injury happened around March so its around 6 months.

My tendon has a bit of a buring sensation- hear to descibe the pain exactly. My knee does feel very tight when walking or standing.

I have been struggling trying to come to terms with the injury. I do try think positivly but its does be very hard.

Thanks for everyones input-:)

Giggipaws

TheBastard wrote: »

Hey when i say its healed- its not aching me anymore- the injury happened around March so its around 6 months.

My tendon has a bit of a buring sensation- hear to descibe the pain exactly. My knee does feel very tight when walking or standing.

I have been struggling trying to come to terms with the injury. I do try think positivly but its does be very hard.

Thanks for everyones input-:)

Hi there,
I got back to my notes from my studies and checked what I had from my Sports Psychology lectures, and actually I am going to post links to few basic websites about the psychological rehabilitation/ motivational techniques. I would suggest you read through them as there are descriptions of techniques that were used by athletes who recovered from very serious injuries - their mind helped them a great, great deal

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/psychological-rehab.html

http://www.podiumsportsjournal.com/2007/04/23/using-mental-imagery-to-improve-the-return-from-sport-injury/

http://books.google.ie/books?id=zwc-YNnho0sC&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=As+a+form+of+preventive+medicine+to+lessen+the+impact+of+stressors+and,+thus,+reduce+the+potential+for+injury,&source=bl&ots=A34SNth1Ck&sig=kwtkAKtMuTkMLoReurdSyIJRbPs&hl=en&ei=11GRTMuyO8yM4gajvpDyAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=As%20a%20form%20of%20preventive%20medicine%20to%20lessen%20the%20impact%20of%20stressors%20and%2C%20thus%2C%20reduce%20the%20potential%20for%20injury%2C&f=false

This last link is very good - it is a google book, and on page 168 you have a very clear description of how the imagery can be used to enhance the recovery from injury.

Well, I hope this helps! I hope is not too complicated
Good luck and get better!
Giggipaws

PS: I hope as well that I did not break any rule by posting full links in the post, if so, I apologize to moderators. If needed, you remove the post and I will PM them to TheBastard...

TheBastard

Hey Gigi Thanks for the links- I’ll have a look at them for sure.

Went to the consultant yesterday- he did the usual examinations had a look at the MRI and I got new xrays to see if the bones looked good. They where at a complete loss.
They found it hard to understand that after 7 months I’m in pain- they could see effusion and slight swelling but weren’t concerned and they could see my kneecap was tracking a little off but not concerned. They commented on how my muscle mass was very good so they could see I was working hard in the gym building it up. I showed them when I walk that the knee can catch a little and my leg at full extension does be very tight.

So they decided the only thing to do is stick a camera in and see if they can see anything.
He said that he couldn’t promise anything and there was a chance that after the op we could be sitting and having the same conversation.

After this length of time you’d begin to think it was all in your head- but when I sit down and think of the pain and discomfort I go through I think that’s impossible. I’ve can track exactly what has gotten better and what remains the same. There is a step in work which is around 2 foot high and when I go to get down I have to be very careful as even a small impact like that hurts. Hopefully they find something or realise that the ACL even while doing the lachamn test shows its very strong is more damaged that the test shows.
Anyone ever see a case where the lachman shows the ACL is fine? I went to 3 physios and a consultant before I went for my MRI- they all said the ACL was 100%- got my MRI and it was a partial tear- so maybe its whats called a false negative?