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Households struggling to pay bills

  • 22-06-2010 05:02PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭


    Nonetheless, while Irish citizens were seen to be downbeat about the jobs market, the percentage of households who feel pessimistic about their future has dropped.
    The study showed there had been a decline from 48 per cent to 25 per cent of households who have a negative view of their financial future over the next 6 months.:rolleyes:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0622/breaking33.html

    I can honestly say they didnt survey my house nor anyone i know :rolleyes:

    Do you find their survey is accurate for you and your feeling on your security and future.


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Comments

  • Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm single with no kids, if I had kids I'd be very worried.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I'm a very pessimistic person by nature and whilst I want to believe that I will have a stable financial future, I never plan for it. I'm not struggling right now as I live very simply with 70% of my wages going straight into savings.

    However, I agree with the above poster in that if I had children, I would be doubly concerned about tomorrow. The fact that I don't know if I will have a job in 5 years time means that having children for me is a risk I am unwilling to take. Better just look out for one than many.


  • Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    70% of your wages saved :eek:
    Well done man :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    caseyann wrote: »
    Nonetheless, while Irish citizens were seen to be downbeat about the jobs market, the percentage of households who feel pessimistic about their future has dropped.
    The study showed there had been a decline from 48 per cent to 25 per cent of households who have a negative view of their financial future over the next 6 months.:rolleyes:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0622/breaking33.html

    I can honestly say they didnt survey my house nor anyone i know :rolleyes:

    Do you find their survey is accurate for you and your feeling on your security and future.

    suns shining , its a good time to get positive response in a survey , try it again in November


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    RoverJames wrote: »
    70% of your wages saved :eek:
    Well done man :)


    Thanks :) But it's only down to the fact that I've no mortgage, no car loan, no wife/gf, no kids and nothing much else of what other people call a life ;)

    maybe I'm just boring :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    with 70% of my wages going straight into savings.

    I hope not into an Irish bank ...

    well done tho :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Thanks :) But it's only down to the fact that I've no mortgage, no car loan, no wife/gf, no kids and nothing much else of what other people call a life ;):

    I'd come to the same conclusion about your before I even read that post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭_michelle_


    while i can understand how bills can add up very quickly if you start missing the odd payment here or there if you do the sensible thing like putting 20 or 30 each week off electricity/gas/sky/tv stamp you can avoid owing hugh amounts. all it takes is careful planning. i have recently started shopping in aldi and i am shocked at how much i am able to save and the quality of food is good if sometimes not better than the likes of supervalu/dinnes/tesco.


  • Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Thanks :) But it's only down to the fact that I've no mortgage, no car loan, no wife/gf, no kids and nothing much else of what other people call a life ;)

    maybe I'm just boring :rolleyes:

    Ah no, I'm sure with hindsight many folk would aspire to staying footloose and fancy free ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,007 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Its very easy to live debt free and save a large portion of your income TBH.

    I go out two or three times a week and still save a large portion of my income as well as having a pension fund.

    How?

    I live in modest accomodation with a modest car. I have everything I want at this stage. Reliable car, every games console, guitar, job close to where I live that I like and equipment for the sports I like.

    I don't have kids/gf either. It seems thats the secret to being debt free in Ireland :P


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    I hope not into an Irish bank ...

    well done tho :)


    Well actually it's not in a bank at all, it's in the post office. I keep a small amount with AIB at all times though.

    Anyone can save that amount of money though without too much trouble providing they are single and not a parent. Children eat up a wage package terribly and courtship costs a lot too with dates and gifts. Also, having no wife nor children is a type of economic security as if I loose my job, I have only to worry about myself.

    Perhaps my outlook will change but I have friends who are parents and right now, I do not in the least envy their position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    caseyann wrote: »
    Nonetheless, while Irish citizens were seen to be downbeat about the jobs market, the percentage of households who feel pessimistic about their future has dropped.
    The study showed there had been a decline from 48 per cent to 25 per cent of households who have a negative view of their financial future over the next 6 months.:rolleyes:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0622/breaking33.html

    I can honestly say they didnt survey my house nor anyone i know :rolleyes:

    Do you find their survey is accurate for you and your feeling on your security and future.

    For those that like that kind of thing, the survey itself is here. Presumably the focus on poverty is part of the "European Year for combating poverty and social exclusion".

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Courtship? Excellent word!

    Personally with a mortgage and another half (but we don't spend money on each other anymore coz we've been together quite a while now!!!!:P), I manage to put a bit away every month too. And I could put more away if I wanted to. I think it's kids that are the major black hole for money!
    Having said that they didn't survey my house either...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Kids in an area where you have no family is the black hole. The cost of running a kid in Dublin is €900 a month per kid for the creche/montessori ( that is after tax) + feeding and clothing and bribing them when you do have them.

    You could choose to run 2 kids or run a his and hers BMW :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Well actually it's not in a bank at all, it's in the post office. I keep a small amount with AIB at all times though.

    Anyone can save that amount of money though without too much trouble providing they are single and not a parent. Children eat up a wage package terribly and courtship costs a lot too with dates and gifts. Also, having no wife nor children is a type of economic security as if I loose my job, I have only to worry about myself.

    Perhaps my outlook will change but I have friends who are parents and right now, I do not in the least envy their position.
    I used to save alot of my income, not 70%, but probably at least 50%+. Even with kids I still manage to save a good portion of my income, it just takes planning and discipline. For example I never go into debt, if I don't have the price of something I do without, I saved up for my car rather than get loan etc. Not very difficult but there are those who need to keep up with the jones, and wouldn't be seen driving a second hand car, and need their annual shopping venture to New York etc, good luck to them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Kids in an area where you have no family is the black hole. The cost of running a kid in Dublin is €900 a month per kid for the creche/montessori ( that is after tax) + feeding and clothing and bribing them when you do have them.

    You could choose to run 2 kids or run a his and hers BMW :)

    It'll have to be the kids so.....we're not the BMW type at all!:D
    Phew, at least that decision is made!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    I've gone the alternate route - BMW over kids :)

    Joking aside, that survey doesn't seem to reflect reality to me. I think things are horribly tight out there for couples with kids, mortgages, car loans etc.

    As a previous poster said, the key is to live modestly. Only expand upwards when you can actually afford it (not financing it with credit). Too many households forgot this during the good years and are paying the price now.

    Kids are an expensive lifestyle choice and if you want to have children, you may have to sacrifice some other stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I have the kids but thankfully no mortgage. It's not financially viable for my girlfriend to work - the childcare would cost more than she could possibly take home so for now, we're the (seemingly unusual in modern day Ireland) single-income nuclear family.

    I have some small debts from college and excessive living during my single days in the boom but luckily I have an ok job and those debts are coming down month by month. If I'd taken a mortgage when they were being offered to me I'd almost certainly be in negative equity on a two bed apartment by now which would be a lot of fun with a young family!

    We live fairly modestly renting a 3 bed terraced house in a nice area, get a night out once a month each (no family available to babysit so we go out separately), a take-away once a week, I drive a 12 year old car, we took a budget holiday to Portugal that I got for half the price of the last minute deals by booking Ryanair and late deal accomodation, clothes tend to be from Penneys/Dunnes or on-line rather than designer labels and there's certainly no 40" plasma in the sitting room (an old 32" CRT I got from a mate when he traded up!).

    For someone who grew up with the boom (did my LC in 98, left college with a post-grad in 03), it's hard to accept such a 'boring' lifestyle as being the norm. In the early years of my working life I was skiing for my 'winter holiday' and seeing lots of Europe over the summers, dropping around €200 on booze every weekend and generally throwing my money away whilst having a great time. Luckily for me, I never bought property as I couldn't see the value in a 300k shoe-box so even though I've a bit of a hangover from the boom years, it's not too serious a one.

    My biggest worry financially at the moment is that the housing market may return to a bubble instead of continuing to normalise. It'll be 2 years before I'll have my debts cleared and a deposit saved so if that happens, I'll be shut out of the market until it crashes again...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    I remember someone last year on the radio bemoaning the plight of the poor private school teenagers who were withdrawn and sent to an ordinary public secondary school because the parents could no longer afford to pay the fees, which they had been paying on credit all along to keep up appearances.

    We really lost the run of ourselves. (I don't include myself in that "we" or those of us who saw the whole mess for what it was). Saving was practically advocated as a crime. It never ceases to amaze me that people buy so easily into mass hysteria like that.

    On the subject of that survey however, I am shortly leaving my job for the dole queue so would fit into the "pessimistic about my future" bracket although I've money saved and will hopefully receive some sort of payment.As with anything however, surveys should be taken in context.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Sleepy wrote: »
    My biggest worry financially at the moment is that the housing market may return to a bubble instead of continuing to normalise. It'll be 2 years before I'll have my debts cleared and a deposit saved so if that happens, I'll be shut out of the market until it crashes again...
    I would hope our new tougher laws with regard to bank lending will not allow this to happen. That said, if AIB and BOI started offering 110% mortgages in the morning, I'm sure they'd have plenty of gullible takers. I was recently chatting to my future sister in law, she is out of college a couple of years and has a safe job in the PS. She can't wait to get on the property ladder, and was refused a mortgage last year because she didn't have a deposit, so she moved back home with her parents, and she tells me that the minute she has enough she'll be buying before prices rebound :p. She then quizzed me as to why I hadn't bought yet (she knows I have a large amount of savings), I explained that houses are still madly overvalued even after falling as much as they have. She completely disagreed with me, as did her father (who seems to be advising her and pushing her into buying). I also have alot of friends and peers, who have very little grasp of economics, who see this recession as a blip, before we get back to "normal". I have tried in vain to explain that the boom was anything but normal, but it's not what alot of people want to hear I'm afraid, and like sheep many people will jump on the back of the next bubble, whatever that may be.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    That's pretty much what I'm afraid of mickeyk. Getting 8% of the price of a house together isn't an insurmountable task for anyone with a stable job in the current climate (especially those with parental support for either the deposit itself or accomodation whilst saving it). I think people like your future sister in law are going to bring about a rebound in prices before sane levels are reached. :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Many potential first time buyers are not secure enough in their jobs to take out mortgages (I am in this situation myself), and mortgages will be more difficul to obtain from now on, so fingers crossed house prices will reflect reality in future. That said I see where you are coming from, alot of people will not learn anything from the recession and could well repeat old mistakes, as the case of my sis in law shows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 twofoot6


    I feel pessimistic about my future despite myself and my partner having jobs. We bought four years ago and bought a house for half a million. Worst thing we could have ever done and now I feel very stupid. At the time we thought we were going to be priced out of the market and would soon be unable to afford a house and didn't want to buy an apartment cos we wanted to start a family. Both my partner and I went to college. I put myself through five years of college, the only financial help I got was a Dublin City Council grant. I got no help from my parents and paid my rent and bills with my part-time job. Both my partner and I saved hard for a deposit. I feel really depressed about the whole thing cos we are living in an area that doesn't suit us and we have no hope of moving to a better area now. My next door neighbours drive a boy racer car with a really loud annoying car alarm. they have visitors calling every five minutes who feel the need to beep their car horns on arrival and when and when leaving. These neighbours are renting and they don't work and there house is much bigger than ours. I went to college to better myself and now I see I was wasting my time. I envy people who are still renting and wish I had continued renting. I have to carry this ridiculous mortgage for the next thirty years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭George Orwell 1982


    twofoot6 wrote: »
    I feel pessimistic about my future despite myself and my partner having jobs. We bought four years ago and bought a house for half a million. Worst thing we could have ever done and now I feel very stupid.....

    Brendan O'Connor wrote a good article about people in your situation: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/rescuing-homeowners-has-to-be-the-priority-2228031.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    twofoot6 wrote: »
    I feel pessimistic about my future despite myself and my partner having jobs. We bought four years ago and bought a house for half a million. Worst thing we could have ever done and now I feel very stupid. At the time we thought we were going to be priced out of the market and would soon be unable to afford a house and didn't want to buy an apartment cos we wanted to start a family. Both my partner and I went to college. I put myself through five years of college, the only financial help I got was a Dublin City Council grant. I got no help from my parents and paid my rent and bills with my part-time job. Both my partner and I saved hard for a deposit. I feel really depressed about the whole thing cos we are living in an area that doesn't suit us and we have no hope of moving to a better area now. My next door neighbours drive a boy racer car with a really loud annoying car alarm. they have visitors calling every five minutes who feel the need to beep their car horns on arrival and when and when leaving. These neighbours are renting and they don't work and there house is much bigger than ours. I went to college to better myself and now I see I was wasting my time. I envy people who are still renting and wish I had continued renting. I have to carry this ridiculous mortgage for the next thirty years.
    twofoot6, it seems pretty likely that those in negative equity will be able to apply for mortgages where they can carry the negative equity over to the new house pretty soon so you may well be able to move to a more suitable location. The money's lost and is the price you've paid for a harsh lesson in not believing things people with vested interests tell you and buying in a bubble. At the end of the day though, you're both still working and can pay the mortgage, you should be able to move to another location should you want to pretty soon and still continue to pay the mortgage.

    The house was worth the mortgage payments to you when you bought it. What's the difference now? It's not appreciating in value? Well, tough on that score. It's still a home for yourself and your partner though and it's not costing you any more than it did 5 years ago... it just hasn't made you money and, not trying to be harsh but, if you were buying it as an investment with the expectation that it would increase in value, you really should have done your homework.

    In the shorter term: have you complained to your next door neighbour's landlord? Visitors calling for 5 minute intervals at all times of the day would be enough for me to be suspect some level of dealing being carried out there. Maybe a call to the Gardai's confidential number might persuade them to act in a more civilised manner (or be arrested and detained if the suspicions were founded).

    You got taken for a sucker and over-paid for your house. Dust yourself down, learn the lesson and move forward. Luckily for you, you're far from the only one to do this in Ireland over the past 6 years so mechanisms will eventually come on-stream to facilitate you with an ability to move house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Brendan O'Connor wrote a good article about people in your situation: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/rescuing-homeowners-has-to-be-the-priority-2228031.html
    Brendan O' Connor hasn't written a good article in his life and the one you've linked to is no exception.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭anneboleyn


    wonder how many Top bank execs are having these kind of worries. ? and I don't mean the local AIB bank manager :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Brendan O' Connor hasn't written a good article in his life and the one you've linked to is no exception.

    Its likes of Brendan in the media that are responsible for the mess @twofoot6 is in

    great guy too quote, not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37 fedor.2


    Christ, anybody got a noose? what are ye like? A cure for depression ye aint.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 twofoot6


    We never bought the house as an investment to make us money. We bought because we were sick of renting with other people. At the time rents were very expensive but now they have gone way down. We thought at the time house prices were going to stabilise but we never imagined the value of the house would drop by over 200,000. The advise we got from those older than us was that the first few years are the hardest and as your wages increase the mortgage payments get easier. However, we have both had wage cuts.

    I suppose the reality of being stuck in a neighbourhood where we have nothing in common with the neighbours has hit me.

    Btw, carrying negative equity from one house to another will not work unless they do something about the stamp duty, unless of course you are buying a new house. We got stung for €30,000 stamp duty when we bought our house. The following year they did away with stamp duty for first time buyers! No-one in negative equity is going to pay stamp duty.

    I know I am very lucky I have a job and I know there are a lot worse off but I just need to vent cos I am driving myself mad thinking about it.


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