I know you all read the Daily Mail, but we should boycott it

CantGetNoSleep

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1286909/No-excuses-forget-context-Bloody-Sunday.html

No excuses, but never forget the context of Bloody Sunday

Bloody Sunday was a shameful day in the proud history of the British Army.
For 30 minutes, in the fear and confusion of that fateful afternoon in 1972, Paratroopers policing an illegal march lost their discipline and self-control.
When the shooting was over, 13 civilians lay dead. A 14th died later in hospital.
Truly, the Saville Report into the events of 38 years ago makes devastating reading for everyone who shares the Mail's fierce admiration of our Armed Forces and our awe of the sacrifices they've made for us, from Northern Ireland to Afghanistan.
Yes, there may be many explanations for the Paras' conduct in that half-hour of mayhem and panic in Londonderry.
It must be remembered that this was a time of immense tension in Northern Ireland, when soldiers were spat at and abused daily by the Catholic population they'd been called in to protect.
Just three days earlier, two police officers had been murdered by the IRA, the latest of 68 members of the security forces to have died at the hands of terrorists in the previous 12 months.
Meanwhile, the Bloody Sunday demonstrators were no Martin Luther King peace marchers. Many were hostile. Some, including one of the victims, were armed with nail bombs.
Cranking up the tension yet further, as Lord Saville makes clear, the IRA were shadowing the crowd (among them, armed with a sub-machine gun which he may have fired, was Martin McGuinness, now - sickeningly - Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland).
But this is explaining the context, not offering excuses. The fact is that, on this occasion, our troops fell abominably short of the high standards of discipline and restraint we expect from them, and which they almost always deliver.

Although we are slightly mystified as to how he can be so certain, Lord Saville finds that the Paras shot first, without warning or provocation. Moreover, unarmed protesters were shot as they fled or lay wounded, while many soldiers later lied about their actions.

As David Cameron (who was five at the time of the tragedy) had no choice but to say, in his dignified apology on behalf of the Government: 'What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong.'
True, many may question the reliability of evidence given to an inquiry that began more than a quarter of a century after the events it examined - and God alone knows why Lord Saville took 12 staggering years to prepare his report.
Countless others will point out that more than 1,000 members of the security forces were murdered in cold blood in Northern Ireland, by terrorists who have long since been released from jail.

There were no 12-year, £191million inquiries for those victims, who died defending our democracy - nor for the families of the Omagh dead, whose requests for justice were so cynically betrayed by the Labour government.
But such protests are fruitless. The bitter truth is that the Saville Inquiry was set up (and how fortuitous for Tony Blair that he's not around to reap what he has sown) as just one of a series of squalid moral compromises in the name of the peace process.


We will never know if it was necessary. But what is undeniable (apart from the fact that it made some lawyers very rich) is that Northern Ireland today is more peaceful than it's been for decades.
For this, the overwhelming glory must go to the police and 250,000 soldiers who served there, of whom all but a handful showed almost superhuman restraint.
As we illustrate on our front page, these men, and their sons and grandsons who are dying now in Afghanistan, are the true face of the British Army. And nothing can diminish the debt we owe them.

Millicent

We don't all read the Daily Mail, just so you know...

Doc

Never once bought one so dont think my boycotting it is going to do much.

starbelgrade

I know you all read the Daily Mail, but we should boycott it

Says the person who read the Daily Mail, started a thread about it, copied and pasted an article from it, then insinuated that everyone else on AH reads that newspaper.

Nice work dude. No wonder you can't get no sleep - must be hard work trying to make sure no-one steals your big tar brush.

gulf

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1286909/No-excuses-forget-context-Bloody-Sunday.html

No excuses, but never forget the context of Bloody Sunday

Bloody Sunday was a shameful day in the proud history of the British Army.
For 30 minutes, in the fear and confusion of that fateful afternoon in 1972, Paratroopers policing an illegal march lost their discipline and self-control.
When the shooting was over, 13 civilians lay dead. A 14th died later in hospital.
Truly, the Saville Report into the events of 38 years ago makes devastating reading for everyone who shares the Mail's fierce admiration of our Armed Forces and our awe of the sacrifices they've made for us, from Northern Ireland to Afghanistan.
Yes, there may be many explanations for the Paras' conduct in that half-hour of mayhem and panic in Londonderry.
It must be remembered that this was a time of immense tension in Northern Ireland, when soldiers were spat at and abused daily by the Catholic population they'd been called in to protect.
Just three days earlier, two police officers had been murdered by the IRA, the latest of 68 members of the security forces to have died at the hands of terrorists in the previous 12 months.
Meanwhile, the Bloody Sunday demonstrators were no Martin Luther King peace marchers. Many were hostile. Some, including one of the victims, were armed with nail bombs.
Cranking up the tension yet further, as Lord Saville makes clear, the IRA were shadowing the crowd (among them, armed with a sub-machine gun which he may have fired, was Martin McGuinness, now - sickeningly - Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland).
But this is explaining the context, not offering excuses. The fact is that, on this occasion, our troops fell abominably short of the high standards of discipline and restraint we expect from them, and which they almost always deliver.

Although we are slightly mystified as to how he can be so certain, Lord Saville finds that the Paras shot first, without warning or provocation. Moreover, unarmed protesters were shot as they fled or lay wounded, while many soldiers later lied about their actions.

As David Cameron (who was five at the time of the tragedy) had no choice but to say, in his dignified apology on behalf of the Government: 'What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong.'
True, many may question the reliability of evidence given to an inquiry that began more than a quarter of a century after the events it examined - and God alone knows why Lord Saville took 12 staggering years to prepare his report.
Countless others will point out that more than 1,000 members of the security forces were murdered in cold blood in Northern Ireland, by terrorists who have long since been released from jail.

There were no 12-year, £191million inquiries for those victims, who died defending our democracy - nor for the families of the Omagh dead, whose requests for justice were so cynically betrayed by the Labour government.
But such protests are fruitless. The bitter truth is that the Saville Inquiry was set up (and how fortuitous for Tony Blair that he's not around to reap what he has sown) as just one of a series of squalid moral compromises in the name of the peace process.


We will never know if it was necessary. But what is undeniable (apart from the fact that it made some lawyers very rich) is that Northern Ireland today is more peaceful than it's been for decades.
For this, the overwhelming glory must go to the police and 250,000 soldiers who served there, of whom all but a handful showed almost superhuman restraint.
As we illustrate on our front page, these men, and their sons and grandsons who are dying now in Afghanistan, are the true face of the British Army. And nothing can diminish the debt we owe them.

Get a life.

ynotdu

The Daily Mail Newspaper has an English version and an Irish version.

It is not so evident now but still happens.
Englands version panders to the lowest common denominator 'Little Englanders in its Editorials and panders in the Irish version to 'Little Irelanders'

In its English version it once called Ireland "A swamp"

There are inconsistancys in the OP's post,but he is coming from the right direction about the rag!

GLaDOS

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1286909/No-excuses-forget-context-Bloody-Sunday.html

Worst. Boycott. Ever.

x PyRo

tl;dr

ynotdu

x PyRo wrote: »

tl;dr

You would not find a sensible Headline like that in the Daily Mail!

Seloth

Crap begetting crap

Never touched that paper in my life and never plan to either.

pirelli

starbelgrade wrote: »

Says the person who read the Daily Mail, started a thread about it, copied and pasted an article from it, then insinuated that everyone else on AH reads that newspaper.

Nice work dude. No wonder you can't get no sleep - must be hard work trying to make sure no-one steals your big tar brush.

I think your missing the point.

They didn't die for british democracy, they were murdered. Peace in northern ireland was shattered because of it and this was mentioned throughout the Day the apology was made by the british goverment. Bloody sunday contributed if not caused much of the unrest and violence in northern ireland.

Tragically There was 150 fatalities of the british soldiers. The northern irish people lost more than 6000 souls to the violence perpetrated/contributed to by deceit and lies of the british administration. The daily mail even aknowledges their lies. Perhaps this is all debatable and if so then perhaps the daily mail shouldn't ignite more controversy and rather accept that very administrations full apology and what it means rather than redefine it to suit their vain glory.

Daily mail claim that 250,000 thousand police and army service persons brought peace to northern ireland and praise the superhuman effort of the soldiers and police. There was no mention of the 6 thousand victims killed and their families superhuman suffering all of whom were civilians; they appear to go unmentioned. As if their contribution pales in signifigance to the dedication of english service men.

Of the soldiers who lost their lives, it was the soldiers families that suffered and not the administration the daily mail pay homage too and that same administration that covered up and allowed the atrocities to escalate to violence and unrest that contibuted to the loss of 6000 nothern irish people to violence.

Why not pay tribute to the dedication of british taxi drivers and wish them safe passage on their three superhuman trips abroad to thailand every year.

Butch Cassidy

http://www.greem.co.uk/pics/daily_mail_canvas_medium.jpg

Dean820

You're living in the past, maaaaaaaaaan.

old_aussie

I know you all read the Daily Mail, but we should boycott it

You know jack sh_it

Bob the Builder

Ah yes, I get the Daily Mail every day. Anyway, too late, I've already cleaned my arse with that days newspaper.

Thats about as far as my use for that newspaper goes.

some_dose

Isn't there already a thread about this article?

FlutterinBantam

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1286909/No-excuses-forget-context-Bloody-Sunday.html

No excuses, but never forget the context of Bloody Sunday

Bloody Sunday was a shameful day in the proud history of the British Army.
For 30 minutes, in the fear and confusion of that fateful afternoon in 1972, Paratroopers policing an illegal march lost their discipline and self-control.
When the shooting was over, 13 civilians lay dead. A 14th died later in hospital.
Truly, the Saville Report into the events of 38 years ago makes devastating reading for everyone who shares the Mail's fierce admiration of our Armed Forces and our awe of the sacrifices they've made for us, from Northern Ireland to Afghanistan.
Yes, there may be many explanations for the Paras' conduct in that half-hour of mayhem and panic in Londonderry.
It must be remembered that this was a time of immense tension in Northern Ireland, when soldiers were spat at and abused daily by the Catholic population they'd been called in to protect.
Just three days earlier, two police officers had been murdered by the IRA, the latest of 68 members of the security forces to have died at the hands of terrorists in the previous 12 months.
Meanwhile, the Bloody Sunday demonstrators were no Martin Luther King peace marchers. Many were hostile. Some, including one of the victims, were armed with nail bombs.
Cranking up the tension yet further, as Lord Saville makes clear, the IRA were shadowing the crowd (among them, armed with a sub-machine gun which he may have fired, was Martin McGuinness, now - sickeningly - Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland).
But this is explaining the context, not offering excuses. The fact is that, on this occasion, our troops fell abominably short of the high standards of discipline and restraint we expect from them, and which they almost always deliver.

Although we are slightly mystified as to how he can be so certain, Lord Saville finds that the Paras shot first, without warning or provocation. Moreover, unarmed protesters were shot as they fled or lay wounded, while many soldiers later lied about their actions.

As David Cameron (who was five at the time of the tragedy) had no choice but to say, in his dignified apology on behalf of the Government: 'What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong.'
True, many may question the reliability of evidence given to an inquiry that began more than a quarter of a century after the events it examined - and God alone knows why Lord Saville took 12 staggering years to prepare his report.
Countless others will point out that more than 1,000 members of the security forces were murdered in cold blood in Northern Ireland, by terrorists who have long since been released from jail.

There were no 12-year, £191million inquiries for those victims, who died defending our democracy - nor for the families of the Omagh dead, whose requests for justice were so cynically betrayed by the Labour government.
But such protests are fruitless. The bitter truth is that the Saville Inquiry was set up (and how fortuitous for Tony Blair that he's not around to reap what he has sown) as just one of a series of squalid moral compromises in the name of the peace process.


We will never know if it was necessary. But what is undeniable (apart from the fact that it made some lawyers very rich) is that Northern Ireland today is more peaceful than it's been for decades.
For this, the overwhelming glory must go to the police and 250,000 soldiers who served there, of whom all but a handful showed almost superhuman restraint.
As we illustrate on our front page, these men, and their sons and grandsons who are dying now in Afghanistan, are the true face of the British Army. And nothing can diminish the debt we owe them.

Get some sleep pal.

galwayrush

Who needs to buy it when we can read it all here.:pac::pac::pac:

stovelid

Its definitely one of Bono's more illogical and bombastic ditties and I for one would be glad to see it gone. I mean, why can't the children just keep their shoes on if somebody has broken bottles on the street? :mad:

General Zod

I would propose a boycott of linking to DM articles on AH.

Scrummage

Ye well said last poster

bonerm

I find the Daily Mail is an absorbing read. That's why I wipe my arse with it.

thebigbiffo

ynotdu wrote: »

The Daily Mail Newspaper has an English version and an Irish version.

It is not so evident now but still happens.
Englands version panders to the lowest common denominator 'Little Englanders in its Editorials and panders in the Irish version to 'Little Irelanders'

In its English version it once called Ireland "A swamp"

There are inconsistancys in the OP's post,but he is coming from the right direction about the rag!

no great lover of the mail but the irish version is very different to the 'middle england' mentality across the water.

in fairness to the irish editorial - they went after wilford (the commander of the paras on bloody sunday) and demanded an apology on sunday. they published photos of him and his wife and their lovely little retirement cottage in belgium where he teaches fine art - they even go so far as to call him the 'butcher of the bogside'.

not the kind of words you'd expect from a paper that wasn't independent of their hateful english sister paper

biko

Meanwhile, the Bloody Sunday demonstrators were no Martin Luther King peace marchers. Many were hostile. Some, including one of the victims, were armed with nail bombs.

Fairly sure that was a plant.

Northern Ireland today is more peaceful than it's been for decades.
For this, the overwhelming glory must go to the police and 250,000 soldiers who served there, of whom all but a handful showed almost superhuman restraint.

F*ck off.

goose2005

pirelli wrote: »

Tragically There was 150 fatalities of the british soldiers. The northern irish people lost more than 6000 souls to the violence perpetrated/contributed to by deceit and lies of the british administration.

Actually 502 British soldiers were killed (plus seven TA), and only 3,526 died total, 718 of whom were not Northern Irish.

Sanjuro

This is old news. Old as in the entire thing was posted last week.

[/thread]

AnonoBoy

biko wrote: »

Fairly sure that was a plant.

And the Saville Enquiry agrees.

thebigbiffo

biko wrote: »

Fairly sure that was a plant.


F*ck off.

nope. one young lad actually was carrying a nail bomb - read it in the Times supplement last week - but saville reckoned the soldier who shot him could not have known this and therefore couldn't have justifiably shot him. the soldiers did however take the nail bomb out of his pocket and place it in his hand before inviting photographers to take pictures - trying to justify shooting a 17 year old boy.

however, you're second point is more than fair

moonpurple

the article opens up with

"Bloody Sunday was a shameful day in the proud history of the British Army."

events 35 years ago

how about shameful activities that saw small children forced to leave the safety of their beds and go in fear to a church hall

in the last 4 weeks

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0618/breaking1.html

you want to be annoyed... be annoyed with the rira cira

Pittens

if there are people from the daily mail who look at page impressions and ad revenue they must be delighted with the OP who didnt even have the sense to print the entire article without a link ( or parts if that is against the bye laws).

OP is a Daily Mail plant!

thebigbiffo

Pittens wrote: »

if there are people from the daily mail who look at page impressions and ad revenue they must be delighted with the OP who didnt even have the sense to print the entire article without a link ( or parts if that is against the bye laws).

OP is a Daily Mail plant!

to be fair. even if a large percentage of the few hundred who view this page click through the link, it wont even make a fraction of a percent hit on their page impressions - the daily mail website is one of the most viewed in the uk. dont think it'd be worth the time for a plant to bother postin this on boards

Pittens

you want to be annoyed... be annoyed with the rira cira

We can be annoyed with both. However you are making a fairly obnoxious link - kinda like the Mail - between protestors and an illegal terrorist group, as if to say: Yes A killed B, but B killed A.

Not only is this WhatAboutary, it is obnoxiously wrong. The IRA is an illegal organisation engaged in criminal acts, the protestors were British Citizens walking along streets mown down by the British Army. They were not IRA.

This would be a big deal anywhere. It was a civil rights march - which by necessity is Catholic dominated - and there may have been IRA sympathisers. The Mail said it was not like a Luther King march. But that is exactly what it was like, the King marches had armed people too. They were not invited but the Black Panthers were there. As for Malcom X's march, that was crawling with Panthers.

If the American Army, or National Guard had killed tens of people there - without any evidence of being fired upon - it would be major news to this day. Articles like this would get even right wing journalists fired.

spank_inferno

If the Daily Mail could afford it this would be the only ad in their paper

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3313/3479011023_a3b028b7c6.jpg

ejmaztec

The Mail should leave the heavy stuff out of its pages and just do what it does best, tell lies about celebrities.

Dudess

moonpurple wrote: »

the article opens up with

"Bloody Sunday was a shameful day in the proud history of the British Army."

events 35 years ago

So fukken what? No matter how long ago it was, the pain must still be raw for the families.

how about shameful activities that saw small children forced to leave the safety of their beds and go in fear to a church hall

in the last 4 weeks

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0618/breaking1.html

you want to be annoyed... be annoyed with the rira cira

Yeah, let's have an atrocity competition - get a fukken grip...

Most people with a sense of balance are annoyed by ALL acts of violence in the North - clearly you're not though.

Always has to be a fukken Conor Cruise O'Brien type genius on these threads - well done you...

pirelli

goose2005 wrote: »

Actually 502 British soldiers were killed (plus seven TA), and only 3,526 died total, 718 of whom were not Northern Irish.

I found some better stats online, I had always thought it was 4000 and it appears the 150 was the amount of civilians killed by the British Army that has not been investigated. Thanks for correcting me. My post was to criticise the Daily mail whom seems to want to focus entirely on the British Army ... and it's war in afghanistan at the time of the Saville report.



DAILY MAIL

As we illustrate on our front page, these men, and their sons and grandsons who are dying now in Afghanistan, are the true face of the British Army. And nothing can diminish the debt we owe them

There were another more than 500 Non british army that were killed in northern ireland?

It was soldiers of the british Army that shot those people on Bloody Sunday and yet instead of honouring the civilians killed or the 500 non british army personnel killed in the troubles the DAILY MAIL prefers to thank the british Army and not the Non Armed forces that were also british citizens that died while trying to preserve peace.


I jut think this was a both a miscarriage of justice if not a travesty of justice and a murder that was commmited by soldiers of the british Army and for some reason the DAILY MAIL wants to commend in particular the British Army at this time of the Saville report and not the countless other british lives that were lost in those years.

In the words of David Cameron:

'We do not honour all those who served with such distinction by keeping the peace and upholding the rule of law in Northern Ireland by hiding from the truth.

The Daily Mail would like to very quickly forget those words and move on it seems.

Fact Sheet on the conflict in and about Northern Ireland

Every day of the year marks the anniversary of someone’s death
as a result of conflict in and about Northern Ireland.
1· 3,725 people were killed as a result of the conflict.
2· Approximately 47,541 people were injured.
3· There were 36,923 shootings.
4· 16,209 bombings were conducted.
5· Between 1969 and 1998, 1,533 of the deaths as a result of the
conflict were under the age of 25. 257 of those killed were under
the age of 18.
6 · The largest age group (25% or 898 people) killed between 1969
and 1998 were those between the ages of 18 and 23.
7 · As of 1998, the largest group (54%) of the deaths as a result of
the conflict were civilians.
8 · As of 1998, the largest group (68%) of those injured were
civilian.[/I]

ScumLord

The Daily Mail is already on my boycott list as is,
The Sun
The Star
And all the rest. Outdated sensationalist propaganda, it's all muck.

Elliemental

I have never read the Daily Mail in my life. Just accidentally glancing over the headlines while in the corner shop queue is enough to make me scream out loud.

Butch Cassidy

Daily Mail supported Hitler don'tcha know.

It's all about scaring the living **** into the middle-England middle class.

Left wing terrorists are going to gain power in the House of Commons
jailbait preggo teen whores are having babiez just to steal aw yr tax monies
immigrants are here to steal your Britishness

Et cetera. Et Cetera. Et cetera

eightyfish

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Daily Mail supported Hitler don'tcha know.

I didn't know that. Just Wiki'd it. Cheers.

The DM comes up all the time on here. People universally hate it. In fact, considering the British edition was heavily anti-Irish in the past, I can't understand why anybody in Ireland would buy it.

This is my favourite example of the Daily Mail being self-promoting and ignorant.

owenc

ynotdu wrote: »

The Daily Mail Newspaper has an English version and an Irish version.

It is not so evident now but still happens.
Englands version panders to the lowest common denominator 'Little Englanders in its Editorials and panders in the Irish version to 'Little Irelanders'

In its English version it once called Ireland "A swamp"

There are inconsistancys in the OP's post,but he is coming from the right direction about the rag!

Yes, people on here saying they read it have never read it at all they have read the irish version.:P

kraggy

Anyone else find it like the primary school yard, the way whole threads go in AH depending on the first 2 or 3 replies and everyone else is afraid to speak up and protect/agree with the first poster?

I think the article is a disgrace.

But hey, that wouldn't fit in with what the cool kids have to say...

FlutterinBantam

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Daily Mail supported Hitler don'tcha know.

It's all about scaring the living **** into the middle-England middle class.

Left wing terrorists are going to gain power in the House of Commons
jailbait preggo teen whores are having babiez just to steal aw yr tax monies
immigrants are here to steal your Britishness

Et cetera. Et Cetera. Et cetera

That's not happening is it.

take a look around ya buddy,and get real.

Minstrel27

Daily Mail website wrote:

We are no longer accepting comments on this article.

I wonder why.

Pittens

That's not happening is it.

take a look around ya buddy,and get real.

:rolleyes: