Thoughts on this

1922

buddy has one and wears it on the stab vest in the radio clip....

considering one, handy for rta stuff and general encounters with the public

don't know the legalities of using it in evidence mind

http://cgi.ebay.ie/MINI-DV-Worlds-smallest-Hi-Res-Camera-/320545827320?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item4aa20529f8

eroo

Seems a bit Gucci!

DubMedic

Why does he need such an item?.

drunkmonkey

Is it legal for him to film the general public without their consent?, i'm pretty sure if he's on private property it's not unless he's on a special assignment and has permission to do so from senior officers.

I'm no Garda, but I think I'd rather have a radio!

Besides...

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055935996

bravestar

Buying your own body wearable CCTV gear, could get very expensive.

DPP-V-Bradish. Nuff said.

Alpha Papa

Data Protecion Act 1988 and 2001

Covert surveillance.

The use of recording mechanisms to obtain data without an individual's knowledge is generally unlawful. Covert surveillance is normally only permitted on a case by case basis where the data are kept for the purposes of preventing, detecting or investigating offences, or apprehending or prosecuting offenders. This provision automatically implies an actual involvement of An Garda Síochána or an intention to involve An Garda Síochána.

Dublin Airport Police are currently evaluating a similar system it is a similar size to a packet of John Player Blues. The system shown by the OP is a poor cousin of it and would not stand up in court as evidence as the camera has poor quality/pixel non secure storage facilty and date/time etc..

The requirement set down for use of such equipment is the same as is admissable in court for cctv i.e secure download facilty i.e storage server, watermark on film, date and time and to be clear quality as possible etc..

It also acts a deterrent for aggressive or potentially aggressive persons as they realise that what ever they say is being recorded and could be used against them in prosecutions.

It also has the opposite effect that it records the officer also

say GSOC would love that haha

baronflyguy

Fair play to you OP for thinking outside the box for your work.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Even if you can't use it for today, who knows what legal change might occur in the following years where video/image evidence will be enough to show the actions of an individual which will help prosecute someone where it is hard to get witnesses.

Could you imagine a cold case file reopened in the future and a member of the public or the front line had video evidence to prove person X has violent tendencies as shown on video evidence A.

A friend of mine works in car insurance and she told me if I ever have an accident to takes loads of photos as they greatly help the investigation side of things especially if the other side has the different view of what happened.

The future is changing rapidly in the digital world and once the old fogies currently in power and in opposition are replaced with modern digitally aware politicians the better. Ireland could have been something great if the celtic tiger invested in modern technology more. Now we are so fair behind it is a joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nCOgO8IeW4

1922

baronflyguy wrote: »

Fair play to you OP for thinking outside the box for your work.[/YOUTUBE]

can't take the credit...not my idea

a system like this might not hold up in court, but i think my friend's thought was more for his own protection, complaint etc

the quality off it is excellent by the way

Finnbar01

I think it's a sad reflection on society when we have to go around and video each other.

Hooch

1922 wrote: »

can't take the credit...not my idea

a system like this might not hold up in court, but i think my friend's thought was more for his own protection, complaint etc

the quality off it is excellent by the way

Great idea......no good for criminal court....wondering about civil court though??

Anyway......would be nice to let GSOC investigate one of those many made up complaints only to afterwards pull out the camera and say...."heres the real story"!!!

1922

nice guy always wrote: »

Anyway......would be nice to let GSOC investigate one of those may made up complaints only to afterwards pull out the camera and say...."hes the real story"!!!

+1

now your talking....

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is it legal for him to film the general public without their consent?, i'm pretty sure if he's on private property it's not unless he's on a special assignment and has permission to do so from senior officers.

Is it legal for the general public to film me without my consent? Yes. So why would it be different the other way around? Public place and all that.

Alpha Papa

It is legal for you to film and a resoponse to FAQ by the data protection commisioner to it use by the AGS or similar organsation is listed below but there is requirements that need to be followed if you are filming persons as a member of the police etc..

Using a personal camera for example as a member of the AGS in a overt or covert manner i.e if the person being filmed was unaware of being filmed may run the risk of the member filming getting into bother if the person being filmed takes offence and writes to GSOC or the super and wants to recieve a copy of the part of the film they appeared in but the member who filmed them has used his own unofficial personal mini camera to do so and the MP4 files/footage is stored on his own laptop may run into trouble when questioned about it if ya get me.

"Data Protecion Act 1988 and 2001

Covert surveillance.

The use of recording mechanisms to obtain data without an individual's knowledge is generally unlawful. Covert surveillance is normally only permitted on a case by case basis where the data are kept for the purposes of preventing, detecting or investigating offences, or apprehending or prosecuting offenders. This provision automatically implies an actual involvement of An Garda Síochána or an intention to involve An Garda Síochána"


Have a look at the youtube video below you will see how one set of BTP officers have to deal with a punter who wants to test there knowlegde of the requirements for the filming police to be able for him to view the footage he appears in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1RKRpS7CT8

bravestar

Seems like were going around in circles. It is legal to film someone in a public place. As regards GSOC, local super, court, your own laptop etc, I have already referenced DPP -V- Bradish. You'd want to have a fair bit of cash if you were going down this route.

Alpha Papa

Alpha Papa wrote: »

It is legal for you to film and a resoponse to FAQ by the data protection commisioner to it use by the AGS or similar organsation is listed below but there is requirements that need to be followed if you are filming persons as a member of the police etc..

Using a personal camera for example as a member of the AGS in a overt or covert manner i.e if the person being filmed was unaware of being filmed may run the risk of the member filming getting into bother if the person being filmed takes offence and writes to GSOC or the super and wants to recieve a copy of the part of the film they appeared in but the member who filmed them has used his own unofficial personal mini camera to do so and the MP4 files/footage is stored on his own laptop may run into trouble when questioned about it if ya get me.

"Data Protecion Act 1988 and 2001

Covert surveillance.

The use of recording mechanisms to obtain data without an individual's knowledge is generally unlawful. Covert surveillance is normally only permitted on a case by case basis where the data are kept for the purposes of preventing, detecting or investigating offences, or apprehending or prosecuting offenders. This provision automatically implies an actual involvement of An Garda Síochána or an intention to involve An Garda Síochána"


Have a look at the youtube video below you will see how one set of BTP officers have to deal with a punter who wants to test there knowlegde of the requirements for the filming police to be able for him to view the footage he appears in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1RKRpS7CT8

Don't see the problem with us using personal equipment from your example. And procedures in the UK are different from here. And all you have to do it tell the person that you are recording them. And finally, explain how we can use our own CCTV.

J K

bravestar wrote: »

DPP -V- Bradish. You'd want to have a fair bit of cash if you were going down this route.

Why would you as an individual (witness) be paying expenses incurred by the prosecution (state)

bravestar

J K wrote: »

Why would you as an individual (witness) be paying expenses incurred by the prosecution (state)

That comment was made in reference to a member of AGS going around with camera's that they have paid for strapped to them, something happens, goes to court, defence looks to know if CCTV exists, you say yes it does but the evidence is on my personal computer/camera... do you understand now why that Garda would want to have a fair bit of cash? If there is footage of an incident, regardless of what it does or does not show, it has to be presented to the defence... DPP V Bradish...

Finnbar01

foreign wrote: »

Don't see the problem with us using personal equipment from your example. And procedures in the UK are different from here. And all you have to do it tell the person that you are recording them. And finally, explain how we can use our own CCTV.

What would happen if the other person says no I don't want to be filmed. Can you still film away (provided you're in a public place) and you do not need other persons consent, just the need to make them aware that you're filming? Also could the op ask for a copy of the video?

May I also add that if Gardaí are allowed to carry about their own cameras, members of the public might find that a bit intimidatory and may be hesitant in approaching gardaí.

J K

bravestar wrote: »

That comment was made in reference to a member of AGS going around with camera's that they have paid for strapped to them, something happens, goes to court, defence looks to know if CCTV exists, you say yes it does but the evidence is on my personal computer/camera... do you understand now why that Garda would want to have a fair bit of cash? If there is footage of an incident, regardless of what it does or does not show, it has to be presented to the defence... DPP V Bradish...

The state is obliged to present the footage. Not you personally. To take your property they got to pay you for it.

bravestar

J K wrote: »

The state is obliged to present the footage. Not you personally. To take your property they got to pay you for it.

Well it is going to be you personally if you, as a member of AGS, arrest someone and have video evidence of the alleged crime because of a body worn camera.

What's all this about paying for it by the way? I was not aware that someone was given money because there computer etc is being seized as part of an investigation/ as an exhibit.

J K

bravestar wrote: »

Well it is going to be you personally if you, as a member of AGS, arrest someone and have video evidence of the alleged crime because of a body worn camera.

What's all this about paying for it by the way? I was not aware that someone was given money because there computer etc is being seized as part of an investigation/ as an exhibit.

They don't take computers just hard disks, and they give the guys replacement hard disks of equivalent value.
But sure maybe your right. They might just take the video off you, and tell you to go fxxk yourself. They might stop paying ot and sub as well, sure your legally obliged to attend court hearings, take it up with the judge if you have a problem.

bravestar

J K wrote: »

They don't take computers just hard disks, and they give the guys replacement hard disks of equivalent value.
But sure maybe your right. They might just take the video off you, and tell you to go fxxk yourself. They might stop paying ot and sub as well, sure your legally obliged to attend court hearings, take it up with the judge if you have a problem.

Where are you getting this from...

Esel

Once you start recording anywhere except a public place, would you not be breaching the new surveillance legislation, and compromising any possible prosecution? I'd say the super would have a fit anyway....

pah

bravestar wrote: »

You'd want to have a fair bit of cash if you were going down this route.

sure the Guards are loaded :eek:

Nobody giving much attention to the GRA recommmendation on use of personal equipment??

The GRA should be fighting to make this kind of thing official issue as well as cctv front & rear in official vehicles.

Zambia

In the case of our guys we have maybe two people who use mounted cameras , in the most part they just want the film of themselves chasing offenders and being all cool and stuff.

Before we arrest anyone there is normally a wealth of evidence regardless of the footage. In the case of Gardai that would be different.

cushtac

Zambia232 wrote: »

Before we arrest anyone there is normally a wealth of evidence regardless of the footage. In the case of Gardai that would be different.

What makes you say that?

Zambia

cushtac wrote: »

What makes you say that?

we respond to alarms either the bad guy is there or they are not. Gardai/Police deal with much more complex issues.

Hooch

Zambia232 wrote: »

we respond to alarms either the bad guy is there or they are not. Gardai/Police deal with much more complex issues.

Im lost

cushtac

Zambia232 wrote: »

we respond to alarms either the bad guy is there or they are not. Gardai/Police deal with much more complex issues.

None of which indicates that police require or gather less evidence than yourselves when arresting.

Shield

Lads this thread has gone in quite a bizarre direction.

Any chance we can get it back on topic?

Ta.

opti76

its something that should be personal issue ...... id have no problem wearing it for 8 hours

doctorchick

Was over in Edinburgh a few weeks ago and there was a big splash on the Scottish news about these becoming standard issue to several forces in Scotland on a trial basis with a hope to rolling it out on a much wider basis.

Zambia

psni wrote: »

Lads this thread has gone in quite a bizarre direction.

Any chance we can get it back on topic?

Ta.

No issue in that.

Zambia

cushtac wrote: »

None of which indicates that police require or gather less evidence than yourselves when arresting.

Thats my piont the police gather a lot more.

Im gonna leave it there as requested

Fr Dougal Mcguire

Zambia232 wrote: »

Thats my piont the police gather a lot more.

Im gonna leave it there as requested

Are you a cop or a security guard Zambia232?
What kind of powers do security have where you are, do they carry guns, do they have as much power as the cops over there