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  • 21-06-2010 11:02PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11


    I am an idealogical P.D and former member of Fianna Fáil. Resigning from Fianna Fáil was akin to "coming out of the closet" really finding myself etc etc

    The question is where do I do now? Can people see a P.D variant cropping up? Will Irish political culture allow for another party?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    mrcricket wrote: »
    I am an idealogical P.D and former member of Fianna Fáil. Resigning from Fianna Fáil was akin to "coming out of the closet" really finding myself etc etc

    The question is where do I do now? Can people see a P.D variant cropping up? Will Irish political culture allow for another party?

    A new party maybe like the PDs were at the start, but hopefully not the later years when they had basically just re-merged into FF


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭NSNO


    While I would be somewhere between the so-called "economically illiterate left" and the centre and would be opposed to the majority of PD-esque, classically liberal policies of a new Liberal/Libertarian party I would wholeheartedly welcome a new party of that bent.

    Mainly for my aversion to oft-cite 'Civil War divide' of FF/FG. Their populist ramblings are fuelled mainly by a desire to:

    A) Be in power

    and/or

    B) For the other party not to be in power

    But if neither A or B are possible then:

    C) Keep myself and as many of my close friends and family members in jobs.

    So while I wouldn't agree with the policies of a new liberal-right party, it's hard to imagine how the creation of one wouldn't be beneficial to the Irish political system.

    Oh and first post! Hope that made sense :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    I wonder whatever happened to The Liberals. Clearly they took a lot of liberty with their definition of "coming soon". ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,952 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    This post has been deleted.


    You don't agree with left wing economic political thought which is fair enough so why keep sniping at it claiming it to be illitertae because let's face it right wing free market unregulated capitalism has hardly been a glowing succes has it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    Is "liberalism" a debased brand? A term that once stood for small government seems to have been stolen by/attached to supporters of big government policy in the States, and now this tendency is starting to exert itself in Ireland.

    Perhaps it's a concerted effort by those against smaller government to establish a news-speak situation whereby supporters of economic liberalism can't even talk about their own beliefs for lack of words to describe them!! :D
    You don't agree with left wing economic political thought which is fair enough so why keep sniping at it claiming it to be illitertae because let's face it right wing free market unregulated capitalism has hardly been a glowing succes has it?

    €60 billion a year spending, €27 billion budget deficit, targeted incentives for construction, poor quality services, too-low interest rates: all blamed on economic liberalism which advocates smaller government. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭NSNO


    This post has been deleted.

    But then someone comes along and confuses it by introducing the Social spectrum! :D

    eg. Labour are economic social democrats, but socially liberal. Fine Gael are (generally) economically liberal (confusingly also known as fiscally conservative) but socially conservative.

    I think I managed to confuse myself there! :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    NSNO wrote: »
    Fine Gael are (generally) economically liberal (confusingly also known as fiscally conservative)
    The massive list of freebies outlined in their 2007 election manifesto would suggest otherwise!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭NSNO


    Valmont wrote: »
    The massive list of freebies outlined in their 2007 election manifesto would suggest otherwise!

    When you have members of Fianna Fáil calling themselves socialists then you have to come to the conclusion that the entire political system have become firm followers of the ideology of "Incompetence" :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    This post has been deleted.

    I don't see any reference to the fact that a significant proportion of the high taxes are being caused by bailing out irresponsible and "economically illiterate" capitalists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,911 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Does Regan-like deregulation of financial systems, banks and economies go hand in hand with being a liberal? Because that's the last thing we need


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    This post has been deleted.

    Yes, of course you know the taxes that will be imposed by the coming Labour / FG coalition.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    mrcricket wrote: »
    I am an idealogical P.D and former member of Fianna Fáil. Resigning from Fianna Fáil was akin to "coming out of the closet" really finding myself etc etc

    The question is where do I do now? Can people see a P.D variant cropping up? Will Irish political culture allow for another party?
    I think the way you might see an economically right-wing party emerge is in response to a Labour government taking power.

    Former Finance minister Charlie McCreavy, although a populist FFer, is associated with free market thinking in Ireland and light-touch regulation. The prevailing opinion now is that there needs to be more regulation in Irish business, not less, particularly in banking. This is one of the reasons why Labour is doing well at the moment and may well lead the next government. The capitalist model in a lot of people's eyes has been discredited.

    So the next stage would be a Labour-led coalition. Whilst economic liberals might not like this, it would mark the first departure from civil war politics. If there's going to be an economically liberal party, it is going to be in response to this Labour-led government. I don't think it is realistic to expect it to happen before then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    I wonder whatever happened to The Liberals. Clearly they took a lot of liberty with their definition of "coming soon". ;)

    :D
    We are actually having a debate on Tuesday with guest speakers including Dick Roche, Michael McDowell, Ruairí Quinn and Dan Boyle.

    You are all (of course) welcome to come.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    :D
    We are actually having a debate on Tuesday with guest speakers including Dick Roche, Michael McDowell, Ruairí Quinn and Dan Boyle.

    You are all (of course) welcome to come.

    where? what? when?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    The Liberals Committee Meeting
    Thursday, 10 June 2010 at 19:00
    Bewley's Hotel, Ballsbridge


    Facebook page.

    The Liberals are hosting a debate in the Thomas Prior Hall, Tuesday 29th June 2010 at 7pm. We have a great line up of speakers. All welcome.

    http://twitter.com/liberalsociety

    I won't make it (I'm from Cork bai), but cheers anyway for the heads up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭bryanw


    The Liberals Committee Meeting
    Thursday, 10 June 2010 at 19:00
    Bewley's Hotel, Ballsbridge

    According to their Facebook page.

    I won't make it (I'm from Cork bai), but cheers anyway for the heads up!

    Well the 10th of June is gone.

    But... Liberals Twitter has details.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    There's a lot to be said for thinking before posting. :D

    Anyone going so?

    I'll be interested to see what The Liberals have in mind for themselves.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    This post has been deleted.

    The most economically illiterate theory of political economy is Libertarianism in my opinion. The whole thing is predicated on people being fundamentally decent to each other (in all your posts there's talk of efficient private charities stepping in to help the less well off etc).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Facebook page for Event

    Basically, the motion for the debate is that "This House believes that the Oireachtas is in dire need of reform".

    Speakers confirmed so far are :
    Minister of State for European Affairs Dick Roche TD,
    Former Minister for Finance Ruairí Quinn TD,
    Former Tánaiste Michael McDowell,
    Senator Dan Boyle, Deputy Leader of the Seanad.

    It will take place on the 29th of June in the Thomas Prior Hall in Bewleys Hotel in Ballsbridge.
    The event will take place from 7pm to around 8:45pm.

    We are recording the whole thing and it will be up on Youtube.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭bryanw


    We are recording the whole thing and it will be up on Youtube.

    Gasp! Now nobody will go!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Some posters on here seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the poster wants to vote for a 'liberal' party.

    The OP was a member of FF, are they a 'liberal' party?
    The OP says he was an ideological PD (whatever that means?/ if so why didn't he join the PD's?)

    were the PD's a 'liberal' party? If posters say they were what made them so. I'd say they weren't very active on the social issues that usually define 'liberalism'.
    Maybe poster aren't classifying the PD's as 'liberal' on social issues, purely supposed 'liberal' economic policies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    This post has been deleted.

    Well, that's what you've been claiming everywhere on boards.....that they're required.

    Mind you, all of your posts seem to overlook the fact that when you add in stealth taxes and fees to privatised companies for basic services that were previously part of the public service (bin charges, etc) Ireland is a pretty high-tax economy already.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    donegalfella
    The PDs supported a liberal stance on many other social issues such as divorce, abortion, decriminalizing homosexuality, and so on. Their goal was to give more power to individual choice, and less to church and state.

    The banning of selling many drugs without much evidence as to their harm does not strike me as being very socially or economically liberal. Take magic Mushrooms banned under Mary Harney because one man on three different drugs tragically died.

    This is not the place to get into a drugs debate but my understanding is that banning drugs is not a classically liberal position.


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