Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Clegg

I'd have no problem with Payne playing for Ireland. You can never have too many good players. So long as he plays well for Ulster and integrates fully with the team.

Whether he'd be a regular starter for Ireland is a completely different question. Kearney is a great fullback in his own right, probably the best in Europe right now. Well, himself or Nacewa.

dtpc191991

To be hones I'm way more angry that Madigan and Gilroy haven't been picked . Strauss is fair enough but those two have really put their hands up. So glad Kidney's going to be gone after the 6 nations.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Is it not a fair assumption?

We'll just have to wait until someone like Jared Payne is selected ahead of Rob Kearney until the double standards begin to surface.

Yep Jared is definitely a mercenary in it for the money; how dare he be in the game for the money....

Podge_irl

He'll probably start ROG and bench Madigan/Keatley/Jackson against Fiji and give them 5 minutes.

sixy

Thanks for your services to Irish rugby ROG but just retire, you are holding others back

profitius

I don't mind the squad too much. As I've said Kidney will probably be gone at the end of the season.

Theres also a load of new players coming through currently who have been showing real potential but are not fully proven yet. No point in rushing them its best to wait until they start to prove themselves in big games.

Leaving Downey out is also debatable. Hes solid and reliable in an area where we're weak.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Strauss in only in it for the money then? He has no other motives?

Unlike ROG who only plays for International wages despite being above that standard.

irishbucsfan

profitius wrote: »

Leaving Downey out is also debatable. Hes solid and reliable in an area where we're weak.

I was sure he'd get a go. I thought he'd be in the Johne Murphy boat of "sign for Munster and win a free Irish squad place"

Benny Cake

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did Richardt tell you himself that that's the reason he wants to play for Ireland? Or are you just talking rubbish?

I wanted to play for Ireland since I was 8 seconds old. I shot out of the womb and was wrapped in a towel that was woven from the hair of Mike Gibson and WIllie John McBride. The room was draped in IRFU flags and there were pictures of Olly Campbell everywhere. When I opened my eyes for the first time my Dad showed me an Irish jersey, and when I reached out to him he put a rugby ball in my hands. Damien Varley on the other hand probably didn't even know what rugby was until he was a few years old, let alone develop aspiration to represent his country. Does all this mean I should be in the squad ahead of him?

This was where you went wrong.... Should have been pictures of Tony Ward....

jamiedav2011

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Its a sad state of affairs when we've posters calling for the inclusion of a foreigner looking for an easy buck ahead of a homegrown Irish player.

Dey tuk our jabs!

thomond2006

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Dey tuk our jabs!

DUK UH DUH!

Tox56

This is hopefully one of the last squad announcements we will be getting from DK, so there's not much point getting too wound up about some of the selections. As someone said already, it's better for Madigan to be getting a run of games for Leinster while Sexton is away.

.ak

I'm all for the banter, but as with most Ireland threads some people get carried away - Just keep the posts civil and attack the post not the poster.

Quint2010

Never rated Varley. He's never had much competition since Flannnery retired yet he has never been able to nail down the no.2 shirt

Fishooks12

Ya, don't think Varley is near international standard tbh. Sherry has the potential but has to nail down the 2 shirt at Munster before he can feel hard done by for not getting called up

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

This is hopefully one of the last squad announcements we will be getting from DK, so there's not much point getting too wound up about some of the selections. As someone said already, it's better for Madigan to be getting a run of games for Leinster while Sexton is away.

Yeah but the danger for Madigan is that his chance is now. In 6 months Jackson may have overtaken him as he will be playing every week for Ulster. We'll see what happens in November though.

totallegend

Quint2010 wrote: »

Never rated Varley. He's never had much competition since Flannnery retired yet he has never been able to nail down the no.2 shirt

I can't believe that Kidney rates him as a prospect either so why is he even there? Two scrum halves, two out halves, so why bring a third hooker?

GerM

ROG's inclusion, or more to the point, the lack of a third option to train up as an understudy, is beyond ridiculous now. We've a bloke on the verge of 36, who has managed to start 4 games in 10 months as the only other outhalf in the squad. We have three young, promising options who have all been performing at their provinces. If ROG or Sexton is injured, we have someone coming into the match day squad with literally no international experience in the most central position on the field.

Is there another top tier country that would have such a scenario? Jesus Christ, even Scotland have seen Parks and Paterson retire recently and already have Laidlaw, Jackson and Weir all capped and fighting it out for the 10 jersey.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

Theres also a load of new players coming through currently who have been showing real potential but are not fully proven yet. No point in rushing them its best to wait until they start to prove themselves in big games.

Conversely, profitius (and I'm not trying to be inflammatory), we have ROG who is actively failing to prove himself in the big games. Despite his own assertion, he was poor last season. His biggest games were against Wales and Ulster where he struggled in both. His shortcomings in the HEC pool games were masked by two cracking drop goals but his contribution previous to those kicks was one of the major reasons they were needed.

It's quite likely that IK won't get an opportunity to prove himself in big games and the same can be said of IM. We don't have the pool of players to rule out two talented young outhalves.

GerM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Never rated Varley. He's never had much competition since Flannnery retired yet he has never been able to nail down the no.2 shirt

I don't know, he's started 14 out of 15 European games in the last two years and twice as many Pro12 starts as Sherry in that time. That's fairly nailed down for me! If he could find his man regularly, he'd be close to getting ahead of Cronin in the 22. Still time for him, he's only 28. Jackman couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo until he was past 30.

Jello

danthefan wrote: »

I'm beginning to think there's something going on with Kearney that we don't know about (injury wise). Ostensibly he's still finishing his pre-season.

I watched the Leinster squad training in UCD the other day. Kearney strolled in later than the rest of the squad and hung around outside on the phone for a while as the others were warming up. I don't actually remember seeing him train with the squad after that, although they were broken into two groups - those starting tomorrow (who were closest to where I was watching from) and the rest who aren't starting tomorrow. I couldn't really make out the rest of the players who aren't starting tomorrow so maybe he was with them.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Yeah but the danger for Madigan is that his chance is now. In 6 months Jackson may have overtaken him as he will be playing every week for Ulster. We'll see what happens in November though.

Madigan won't just fade away, he might not get the H Cup games, but he'll start plenty of games during the rest of the year. Jackson would have to play a stormer for the next 6 months and/or Madigan suffer a dip in form for Jackson to move ahead in the pecking order. Madigan has made over 50 apps for Leinster, Paddy hasn't even made 20 yet (still plenty considering his age), and he's also 3 years younger.

Jackson will get a chance at some point, but I can't see him overtaking Madigan anytime soon.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I think far too much weight is being put on the selection of ROG and its blinding posters to the progressive selections of Marshall, Henderson and Dave O'C. I've a feeling that the management is going to wait a few more weeks before its going to back one of Madigan, Keatley or Jackson. All three lads would probably be on level ground at present and the coaches will (hopefully) be following their progress closely before promoting one of them ahead of ROG for the AIs/6N.

I think DOC and Henderson are being brought in to try and fill the void left by SOB and/or Ferris. Both lads are big, dynamic lumps and I'm guessing that Smal wants to get a close look at them to see if they have the potential to add some bulk to our backrow (at 6) in the short/medium term. I don't think that Henderson is being included as a secondrow, but I could easily be wrong.

Its good to see the management acknowledge the need to replace D'Arcy and I think that Marshall could well force his way into contention for the 6N. It will depend on him forcing his way past Wallace though, which he will have a very hard time doing. Wallace's experience at 10 was a huge reason for Jackson being given the chance he has been. Jackson will need to show that he doesn't need Wallace (and Pienaar) minding him, if Marshall is to have a chance to get the Ulster 12 jersey. I'm surprised that Downey wasn't included as you'd struggle to find a more dependable player to slot in at 12.

GerM

Marshall's inclusion is a big move in the right direction. However, the elephant in the room is the lack of an option at 10, Capt. People were always going to comment on it. I don't mind if ROG is there but we need to start trying someone else, not waiting to see if there's a stand out candidate over the next few weeks. We've had years to watch the players. We've been saying it for a couple of years now and we've also been thinking "Someone will be brought in closer to the 6N/AI/summer tests" but it never happens. There's still a chance someone gets a run against Fiji but, aside from injury, I cannot see anyone aside from Sexton and ROG wearing the 10 and 21 jerseys against SA, Argentina and in the 6N.

Regarding Marshall, it's not a moment too soon. 12 is the next most crucial area in the side where we are lacking depth. Darce should be ok for another season, I think but is definitely slowing down. Marshall should get a cap this season but also be allowed get as much time for Ulster as possible as he still has very little professional rugby at this point.

Nice to see Henderson and DOC2 in there but they don't have a hope of being capped in the foreseeable future.

Tox56

Henderson was struggling with the intensity and physicality of that Rabo game v Munster, although he scored a great try, he was falling off tackles and wasn't quite up to speed, which I suppose is to be expected. He doesn't have a hope in hell of playing a full international anytime soon.

Cpt_Blackbeard

GerM wrote: »

Marshall's inclusion is a big move in the right direction. However, the elephant in the room is the lack of an option at 10, Capt. People were always going to comment on it. I don't mind if ROG is there but we need to start trying someone else, not waiting to see if there's a stand out candidate over the next few weeks. We've had years to watch the players. We've been saying it for a couple of years now and we've also been thinking "Someone will be brought in closer to the 6N/AI/summer tests" but it never happens. There's still a chance someone gets a run against Fiji but, aside from injury, I cannot see anyone aside from Sexton and ROG wearing the 10 and 21 jerseys against SA, Argentina and in the 6N.

Regarding Marshall, it's not a moment too soon. 12 is the next most crucial area in the side where we are lacking depth. Darce should be ok for another season, I think but is definitely slowing down. Marshall should get a cap this season but also be allowed get as much time for Ulster as possible as he still has very little professional rugby at this point.

Nice to see Henderson and DOC2 in there but they don't have a hope of being capped in the foreseeable future.

Who would you pick as the next 10? Madigan was the best of the bunch last season. Keatley has been the best this season. Jackson has been good and is likely to see a lot more important gametime than the other two lads. I think its too early for the IRFU to back one of them outright. They have the next few weeks to establish themselves within the pecking order. It would be different had Madigan toured as he should have.

I also think that Kidney is afraid of backing the wrong horse, having it blow up in his face and the player involved suffering confidence issues. There was also a lot of talk that Kidney wanted Madigan down in NZ, but ROG toured due to money issues and having a central contract.

I don't see DOC11 or Henderson being capped either. The management are just getting a close look at the biggest young lads available, so there is a contingency in place if SOB, Ferris or POC's (if Henderson is seen as a lock) injury woes continue.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Who would you pick as the next 10? Madigan was the best of the bunch last season. Keatley has been the best this season. Jackson has been good and is likely to see a lot more important gametime than the other two lads. I think its too early for the IRFU to back one of them outright. They have the next few weeks to establish themselves within the pecking order. It would be different had Madigan toured as he should have.

Jackson. He has the most rounded game out of the three in my opinion but it needs to be developed. Madigan and Keatley have always had issues with controlling proceedings when their running and passing isn't working. He has a nice pass and can attack the line as we saw against Munster. However, he has the ability to manage a game beyond the other two. The kick in behind Munster last week after Ulster lost 30m was top class. He's 20 years old as opposed to IK who is 25 and IM who is 23. With an investment in him now and letting him work with ROG and Sexton regularly, he could develop well beyond where he is already. I don't want to see him pitched straight in and his confidence damaged but let him work behind the scenes, give him a good chunk of time against Fiji perhaps and, when the summer tour comes next year, let him and IM/IK be the only outhalves on tour.

Swiwi

GerM wrote: »

ROG's inclusion, or more to the point, the lack of a third option to train up as an understudy, is beyond ridiculous now. We've a bloke on the verge of 36, who has managed to start 4 games in 10 months as the only other outhalf in the squad. We have three young, promising options who have all been performing at their provinces. If ROG or Sexton is injured, we have someone coming into the match day squad with literally no international experience in the most central position on the field.

Is there another top tier country that would have such a scenario? Jesus Christ, even Scotland have seen Parks and Paterson retire recently and already have Laidlaw, Jackson and Weir all capped and fighting it out for the 10 jersey.

GerM, I'm with you on this one. I see no point in persisting with a back-up number 10, who'll be 39 in 2015. Even Brad Thorn realised all good things must come to an end...for O'Gara that was about 3 years ago. I hope he can retire on his terms, rather than fade away under Kidney, or more likely be summarily dropped if (when) a new coach takes the reigns.

Is it really in Ireland's best longterm interests for O'Gara to pull the strings if Sexton gets injured? I'll put my hand up and say I have watched very little Irish provincial rugby since last year's HC, but I did see Madigan play in Brad Thorn's first game for Leinster, and he looked handy enough. No doubt you guys will have a better idea about the other form fly-halves in Ireland at present, but persisting with O'Gara just about sums it all up when it comes to Kidney's tenure as Irish coach.

Swiwi

chris_d wrote: »

not sure what Madigan or Gilroy need to do to get a sniff of a green shirt.

The Highlanders away strip is green. They could do a "Haskell" during the off-season...

Swiwi

leftleg wrote: »

Yep Jared is definitely a mercenary in it for the money; how dare he be in the game for the money....

He is though! It usually takes a fair sum to pry a talented young man - being touted as a potential AB - away from NZ. Or being Luke McAlister. Have no problem with it personally, but you would want to be sure he REALLY wants to play for Ireland, which is an altogether different matter than playing for a province.