Question on pulse records.

Finnbar01

Ok, I live in a particularly rough area, with a lot of crime mainly concerning drugs and the like. Over the last several months, I've being stopped and searched by Gardaí (<-- ) under the misuse of drugs act. Of course they've never found any drugs on my person as I simply don't do drugs.

Is it true that all the info relating to these searches is stored on the pulse system as records, and they cannot be removed?

I now trying to look for work and my fear is that employers are screening potential employees with references and background checks and using their garda friends (obviously a tiny minority!) to check the pulse system on potential employees. If someone were to access the pulse system for yours truely they would see a bit of a picture building up and my concern is that nowadays people tend to have the mentality of where there's smoke there's fire.

I've been told that I could get the records removed but it's next to impossible. If I didn't have any drugs on me when stopped and searched, what other reason should these records be kept for?

Cheers!

source

Criminal vetting for employment only covers previous convictions.

bravestar

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Ok, I live in a particularly rough area, with a lot of crime mainly concerning drugs and the like. Over the last several months, I've being stopped and searched by Gardaí (<-- ) under the misuse of drugs act. Of course they've never found any drugs on my person as I simply don't do drugs.

Is it true that all the info relating to these searches is stored on the pulse system as records, and they cannot be removed?

I now trying to look for work and my fear is that employers are screening potential employees with references and background checks and using their garda friends (obviously a tiny minority!) to check the pulse system on potential employees. If someone were to access the pulse system for yours truely they would see a bit of a picture building up and my concern is that nowadays people tend to have the mentality of where there's smoke there's fire.

I've been told that I could get the records removed but it's next to impossible. If I didn't have any drugs on me when stopped and searched, what other reason should these records be kept for?

Cheers!

If you havent done anything wrong, dont worry about it. Best of luck with the job mate

timmywex

Hundreds of people get searched every day, as you say its just your particular area.

It all goes back to the bread and butter of policing, gathering intelligence i guess! It may not seem much to you but theyll then know you were there then, no drugs, and not somewhere else or whatever!

tommyhaas

foinse wrote: »

Criminal vetting for employment only covers previous convictions.

Can anyone clarify that this is true, 'cos I had a charge thrown out by the judge a few years back and was under the impression that this would show up on the Garda vetting?

source

tommyhaas wrote: »

Can anyone clarify that this is true, 'cos I had a charge thrown out by the judge a few years back and was under the impression that this would show up on the Garda vetting?

If you don't want to take my word for it, you can see here under details disclosed.

tommyhaas

foinse wrote: »

If you don't want to take my word for it, you can see here under details disclosed.

Details disclosed

When a prospective employee is vetted by the Gardaí the details of all convictions and prosecutions are disclosed to the authorised liaison person in the registered organisation. The details will include all completed prosecutions whether or not they were successful and will also include any pending prosecutions

Would that part not suggest your wrong, that unsuccessful prosecutions will be disclosed?

If this is the case,does this not make a mockery of innocent until proven guilty?? Surley any employer seeing that you'v been in court for something is gona take a dim view of it?

MagicSean

tommyhaas wrote: »

Would that part not suggest your wrong, that unsuccessful prosecutions will be disclosed?

If this is the case,does this not make a mockery of innocent until proven guilty?? Surley any employer seeing that you'v been in court for something is gona take a dim view of it?

Once a charge or summons goes to court it is public record.

Hooch

tommyhaas wrote: »

Would that part not suggest your wrong, that unsuccessful prosecutions will be disclosed?

If this is the case,does this not make a mockery of innocent until proven guilty?? Surley any employer seeing that you'v been in court for something is gona take a dim view of it?

The form states whether the prosecution was a sucessful conviction or if it was struck out. So it tells the employer yes he was in court but found innocent/guilty

tommyhaas

Yea, just you know yourself it dosent look great for you. Was only a drunk and disorderly charge but still looks bad

Delancey

nice guy always wrote: »

The form states whether the prosecution was a sucessful conviction or if it was struck out. So it tells the employer yes he was in court but found innocent/guilty

A couple of court appearances and I believe many employers will think '' no smoke without fire '' - it does really seem to make a mockery of being acquitted.

MagicSean

delancey42 wrote: »

A couple of court appearances and I believe many employers will think '' no smoke without fire '' - it does really seem to make a mockery of being acquitted.

A few court appearances and their probably is a fire.

Delancey

k_mac wrote: »

A few court appearances and their probably is a fire.

..... which kinda proves my point exactly , Q.E.D.

Finnbar01

Ok folks, just want to be absolutely clear here, I never once was arrested for drugs or any other offence. If as a garda you were to look at the pulse system and see that there are several records of me being stopped and searched for drugs, would you assume that there is a fire?

Be honest now.

MagicSean

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Ok folks, just want to be absolutely clear here, I never once was arrested for drugs or any other offence. If as a garda you were to look at the pulse system and see that there are several records of me being stopped and searched for drugs, would you assume that there is a fire?

Be honest now.

I was talking about court appearances.

twowheelsonly

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Ok folks, just want to be absolutely clear here, I never once was arrested for drugs or any other offence. If as a garda you were to look at the pulse system and see that there are several records of me being stopped and searched for drugs, would you assume that there is a fire?

Be honest now.

Have you ever had your FULL details taken? Name, Address, D.O.B. etc?
If not then I doubt that you're even on Pulse.

Best bet is to find your local friendly copper and ask him to have a look for you.

Finnbar01

Could I not give any details and just let the Garda search me? Only give personal details if they find something which they never will.

5500

You can put in an information request under the Freedom of information act to see what details are held against your name, but you need to specify some detail in order to obtain some information IE the reg of the car you were driving or the place your name was taken ect, even at that your not likely to see the "juicy" so to speak information that they may hold, just something to the lines of "personal search - date/location"

.

Butch Cassidy

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Ok, I live in a particularly rough area, with a lot of crime mainly concerning drugs and the like. Over the last several months, I've being stopped and searched by Gardaí (<-- ) under the misuse of drugs act. Of course they've never found any drugs on my person as I simply don't do drugs.

Is it true that all the info relating to these searches is stored on the pulse system as records, and they cannot be removed?

I now trying to look for work and my fear is that employers are screening potential employees with references and background checks and using their garda friends (obviously a tiny minority!) to check the pulse system on potential employees. If someone were to access the pulse system for yours truely they would see a bit of a picture building up and my concern is that nowadays people tend to have the mentality of where there's smoke there's fire.

I've been told that I could get the records removed but it's next to impossible. If I didn't have any drugs on me when stopped and searched, what other reason should these records be kept for?

Cheers!

You're probably not going to get a straight answer here so try:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/law-and-rights/access-to-garda-records

Section 4 of the Data Protection Act allows you to make a request to the Gardaí for a copy of any of your personal data being kept by them. On making an access request to the Gardaí, you are entitled to:

* A copy of the data being kept about you
* A copy of any data held about you which is an opinion (except where such opinions were given in confidence)
* Know the purpose for which the data is being kept
* Know the identity of anyone to whom the Gardaí disclose that data
* Know the source of the data (i.e. where the data came from) unless it is contrary to public interest.

In order to obtain your own personal data, you are required to provide the following:

* Your correct date of birth
* Any other names used by you
* All of your previous addresses in Ireland
* A certified copy of a passport, driving licence or birth certificate
* A fee of €6.35.

I don't know what Pulse is btw or if it's covered by the above.

Odysseus

k_mac wrote: »

A few court appearances and their probably is a fire.

Whilst I agree with you in general here. I have a question for you guys, now whilst many different factors will come in to play, starting from the reason you end up talking to the person and the context in which it is happening. What about people with what we will call a good criminal history, various court appearences and lets say a few prison sentences. However, lets add to that no intell for say 5 or 10 years since the incident. For people who do move on due to the nature of your work, you generally don't get to hear much about a person if they change their lifestyle.

Would you feel it colours your view of the person? Here I'm not talking about the person being part of a criminal investigation, rather, some of the other things a person may encounter you guys in relation to. Anything from a routine stop to say someone with a less severe history firearms application.

The reason I'm asking is because the nature of my work [when it goes well] sees people moving on from being active in their criminality to having a history of, so to speak. I have lots of people who in various ways have had the past come back to haunt them, and in some case describe a very different reaction when a person finds out about their past, not just you guys. For those who don't know I work for the Addiction Services.

cushtac

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Could I not give any details and just let the Garda search me? Only give personal details if they find something which they never will.

If you refuse to give details you'll be arrested.

freefromgov

Interesting topic you guys are discussing here ....
I would like to add if I may .... Does it not strike any of you as "odd" !
that a Man that the Guards have witnessed comit no crime should be addressed in such a manner by a Peace officer .... ?
If you have commited no criminal act ... or if there is no one making a complaint against you for doing such a thing, then why would one interact with any peace officer .... ?
As for not giving your Name, and getting arrested for such a thing .... well how can that be Lawful ? ? How is not giving your name a crime ? ? Anyone ? ?

kind regards

CharlieCroker

freefromgov wrote: »

Interesting topic you guys are discussing here ....
I would like to add if I may .... Does it not strike any of you as "odd" !
that a Man that the Guards have witnessed comit no crime should be addressed in such a manner by a Peace officer .... ?
If you have commited no criminal act ... or if there is no one making a complaint against you for doing such a thing, then why would one interact with any peace officer .... ?
As for not giving your Name, and getting arrested for such a thing .... well how can that be Lawful ? ? How is not giving your name a crime ? ? Anyone ? ?

kind regards

What way was the OP addressed???

Why would you not interact with a Garda (which is what i assume you mean when you say peace officer)? Not as if they're out to get you?

Not giving you're name is not an offence in General, unless its demanded under an act, such as Public Order, Misuse of Drugs or Road Traffic Acts.


From reading your post, i think i might be wasting my time discussing it with you. Hope i'm wrong.


@OP, If they were just searches and you were never caught with anything then you've nothing to worry about. They won't show up on an employment enquiry or a vetting form

Finnbar01

CharlieCroker wrote: »

@OP, If they were just searches and you were never caught with anything then you've nothing to worry about. They won't show up on an employment enquiry or a vetting form

Hi CharlieCroker, that's not the reason why I created this thread. I know I would have no problems with vetting, my concern is that there are a small minority of HR staff and garda that are accessing the pulse system, doing checks on potential employees.

As I already stated, if my name is searched, several records would pop up. If this is relayed back to the HR interviewer my concern is that they would take a negative position on this.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

CharlieCroker

Thats not allowed. If you reckon that it will or has happened, its the responsibility of GSOC. A garda isn't allowed to check Pulse and then pass that information onto a 3rd party such as a potential employer. Any gaurd will be disciplined if he's found to be doing this.

Any official check will not highlight these searches.

freefromgov

freefromgov wrote: »

If you have commited no criminal act ... or if there is no one making a complaint against you for doing such a thing, then why would one interact with any peace officer .... ?

Common courtesy?

And if you want to go down the road of calling people "peace officers" then what about talking to a fire fighter, prison officer, member of the defense forces or paramedic?

bravestar

freefromgov wrote: »

Interesting topic you guys are discussing here ....
I would like to add if I may .... Does it not strike any of you as "odd" !
that a Man that the Guards have witnessed comit no crime should be addressed in such a manner by a Peace officer .... ?
If you have commited no criminal act ... or if there is no one making a complaint against you for doing such a thing, then why would one interact with any peace officer .... ?
As for not giving your Name, and getting arrested for such a thing .... well how can that be Lawful ? ? How is not giving your name a crime ? ? Anyone ? ?

kind regards

Why would you not interact with a member of AGS? or would the extent of your interaction be attampting to hand the member of copy of thier oath that you have on a little card? :rolleyes:

MagicSean

freefromgov wrote: »

Interesting topic you guys are discussing here ....
I would like to add if I may .... Does it not strike any of you as "odd" !
that a Man that the Guards have witnessed comit no crime should be addressed in such a manner by a Peace officer .... ?
If you have commited no criminal act ... or if there is no one making a complaint against you for doing such a thing, then why would one interact with any peace officer .... ?
As for not giving your Name, and getting arrested for such a thing .... well how can that be Lawful ? ? How is not giving your name a crime ? ? Anyone ? ?

kind regards

Im not sure if you are aware of this but gardaí operate with the consent of the large majority of the people of Ireland, as does the government. That is why you interact with them. There is also a concept in society known as common decency. There are many pieces of legislation that allow a garda to demand a name and address of a person and make it an offence not to do so. No amount of anarchist dogma will change that. Perhaps you are confused as to what country you are in?

Shield

General mod note:

I don't want this to get personal, so remember boards' golden rule: Attack the post, not the poster.

Thanks, and resume posting...

PrimalTherapy

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

You're probably not going to get a straight answer here so try:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/law-and-rights/access-to-garda-records





I don't know what Pulse is btw or if it's covered by the above.

It is
http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Case_Study_3/02_Gardai_-_Inappropriate_Data_on_%E2%80%9CPulse_system/112.htm

OP if you have no contact with drugs i would be complaining to garda ombudsman about this as seems like harrassment. And having seen how garda are allowed to act i do not have much respect for them and would only give my name if legally obliged to. If abused i would complain to ombudsman and get solicitor on the job. some cops will abuse their power by carrying out 'legal actions' to people they do not like. been abused by cops once and false accused and that was their first and last time abusing me

Finnbar01

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Thats not allowed. If you reckon that it will or has happened, its the responsibility of GSOC. A garda isn't allowed to check Pulse and then pass that information onto a 3rd party such as a potential employer. Any gaurd will be disciplined if he's found to be doing this.
Any official check will not highlight these searches.

Thanks Charlie. I guess the best thing to do would be to find out how many records I may have and write a letter to the superintendent to see if I can get them removed, if I have any that is.

BTW, I've heard that Garda are not allowed to access records on persons they are not dealing with. I take it that every record accessed is flagged with the garda's id, but how would garda management know that the garda doing the accessing is doing so for a third party?*

*Maybe not allowed to answer that because it's to do with garda procedure???

OP if you have no contact with drugs i would be complaining to garda ombudsman about this as seems like harrassment. And having seen how garda are allowed to act i do not have much respect for them and would only give my name if legally obliged to. If abused i would complain to ombudsman and get solicitor on the job. some cops will abuse their power by carrying out 'legal actions' to people they do not like. been abused by cops once and false accused and that was their first and last time abusing me

I wasn't abused by any of the gardaí. One was quite goodlooking and I nearly pitched a tent in me trousers. Lols.

BTW are Gardaí offended by the title peace officer? I think that's an honourable title.

Delancey

Finnbar01 wrote: »

BTW, I've heard that Garda are not allowed to access records on persons they are not dealing with. I take it that every record accessed is flagged with the garda's id, but how would garda management know that the garda doing the accessing is doing so for a third party?*

*Maybe not allowed to answer that because it's to do with garda procedure???

It 's possible that Gardai may not feel able to discuss internal procedures on this public forum. I'm not a guard but I can tell you how it works in England - and you should get some idea of how it might work here.

Example - A Police Offficer in , say , London runs a check on a named individual - that search / check is recorded via the Police Officers I.D. - a certain % of checks are selected for random scrutiny , that is to say in a few weeks time that officer could receive a notice telling him/her that on such a date they ran a check on so and so - WHY ?
The Officer now has to justify his/her reasons for checking that person and he/she should also have a written record of the check.

Run a load of checks without record or justification ? That Police Officer would have a lot of questions to answer as to their use of information.

Not unreasonable to guess the Garda procedure may be something similar- but then I'm just speculating :rolleyes:

Hooch

delancey42 wrote: »

It 's possible that Gardai may not feel able to discuss internal procedures on this public forum

Before ANYONE answers I refer everyone to our charter.......

Thanks

Shield

nice guy always wrote: »

Before ANYONE answers I refer everyone to our charter.......

Thanks

...and since people didn't particularly want to stick to the charter, this thread now finds itself closed.