Do you think capital punishment must as humane as possible?

Deus Ex Machina

Reading about the execution of a man in the USA recently by means of firing squad starting me thinking about the issue of the suffering victims of capital punishment endure. I am against the death penalty, but I can see arguments for either side of the discussion: a civilised society is morally obligated to ensure that the if it is to put people to death for their crimes, it must be carried out in such a way that those being executed endure as little suffering as possible.

On the other hand I can see how some would think that it is a non issue, the individual is only in this position because they have committed a terrible act, and therefore any suffering which they endure while they are being executed has been earned.

There are many arguments on either side I'm sure, what are your thoughts?

Edit: As I said I am not in favour of the death penalty, this is a hypothetical question centering around the issue of suffering if the death penalty did exist.

ItsAWindUp

No way, crucifixion FTW.

Seloth

While the gas seems humane as some one made mention,It left them calm...Should just be done fast...Guilitine

But not a fan of it myself,But as PopJohn Pual II said,it should only be done when society has no other means of protecting its self from it.

Tar.Aldarion

Yes, as humane as possible, so non existent.

OutlawPete

Capital punishment by it's very nature is inhumane.

It's barbaric.

Trashbat

I think you should be allowed to choose the method of capital punishment you receive. Obviously within reason, but you should be given options at least. I'm not advocating free choice (imagine what the nutters would come up with!)

spurious

It's not logical. If killing people is wrong, it's wrong no matter who does it.

Yakult

Death sentence sucks. Why give someone the oppertunity to get the easy way out?

Let scum suffer in prison for their lives.

Cookie_Monster

no, death by industrial blender FTW

Hank_Jones

I think so, why should we be like them?

We aren't animals, we should show compassion to these people at the time of their deaths, regardless of what they have done.
They will be suffering the worst possible thing that governed society can inflict on them, so I think that is enough.

Cookie_Monster

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Let scum suffer in prison for their lives.

that costs hundred of thousands and is a total waste of money

The_Kew_Tour

Im against it, but if you are guilty of taking somebodys life you should get life in jail simple as that.

No Pity.

It wasn't me!

I personally don't agree with it, but yes, if a state is going to remove someone, it should obviously be as quick and efficient as possible. Long drop hanging is the obvious one really.

minidazzler

I think death penalty is a good idea in alot of cases.

It should result in their death, people being executed lost their humanity a long time ago when they raped or murdered people.

I care not for how they are treated on their deathbed.

This is referring to Western countries only...obviously countries where Sharia law is enacted don't apply becuase a higher proportion of bullsh1t executions take place, things that deserve no punishment.

robinph

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that costs hundred of thousands and is a total waste of money

Costs far more to kill them than to keep them alive.

dark crystal

It's nice he got a choice how to die - their victims did not.

As far as I know, the man in question chose this method.

To be perfectly honest, I don't have a major problem with the death penalty. those who care about the plight of these people are bigger than me for sure - there are far worthier causes out there for me to care about.

My name is URL

I'm against the death penalty in all its guises. It's an easy way out for the criminal who won't have to live with what he has done and it's a cop out by the state to not make them live with it

Life imprisonment + hard labor would be better. let them work to pay for their incarceration

AudreyHepburn

I don't agree with Capital Punishment humane or otherwise.

Why should killing be wrong for one person but right for another? In my opinion if we resort to executing criminals we really are no better than them.

If a person has committed a serious crime they should be made to rot in jail for the rest of their lives.

Death is the easy way out for these people.

If CP must happen though then it should be as humane as possible regardless of the crime.

minidazzler

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm against the death penalty in all its guises. It's an easy way out for the criminal who won't have to live with what he has done and it's a cop out by the state to not make them live with it

Life imprisonment + hard labor would be better. let them work to pay for their incarceration

Hard labour can't be enforced, so the criminal simply has to sit in a cell until his dying days. If he is a psychopath, then he will never feel remorse or empathy, he won't have to live with what he did, because he just doesn't care.

I say kill them in whatever way will do it. I don't care about their comfort.

My name is URL

minidazzler wrote: »

Hard labour can't be enforced, so the criminal simply has to sit in a cell until his dying days. If he is a psychopath, then he will never feel remorse or empathy, he won't have to live with what he did, because he just doesn't care.

I say kill them in whatever way will do it. I don't care about their comfort.

If he's a psychopath or mentally retarded then under law the death penalty won't be applied to them. Hard labor can easily be enforced, it has been in the past

Ruu_Old

No, death by human consumption. Set a bunch of very hungry people on the guilty and to hell with societies taboos.:pac:

Cookie_Monster

robinph wrote: »

Costs far more to kill them than to keep them alive.

how so?

It does currently as it is little used and the challenges drag on forever. If is was reasonably common across many countries and was enacted as soon as sentencing and appeal is finished the cost would drop dramatically.

Guy:Incognito

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Death sentence sucks. Why give someone the oppertunity to get the easy way out?

Let scum suffer in prison for their lives.

It costs (a lot of) money to keep them their. Get rid and they are no problem and cost nothing.

dark crystal

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm against the death penalty in all its guises. It's an easy way out for the criminal who won't have to live with what he has done and it's a cop out by the state to not make them live with it

Life imprisonment + hard labor would be better. let them work to pay for their incarceration

But what exactly does life imprisonment mean? 14 years? 30 years? It's not consistent.
Declare you're a born again christian and have seen the light and know the error of your ways and it's likely the parole board, in all their paper pushing wisdom, will grant early release.

look at Roy Whiting. The guy raped and killed an innocent 10 year old child and just last week got his 50 year 'life' sentence knocked down 10 years.

Until a life sentence means a life sentence, i.e; staying behind bars until the day you die, I have no problem with the existence of a death penalty.

minidazzler

My name is URL wrote: »

If he's a psychopath or mentally retarded then under law the death penalty won't be applied to them. Hard labor can easily be enforced, it has been in the past

Psychopathy is not mentally retarded, it's a personality disorder.

One can just refuse to take part in hard labor, CO's can no longer beat prisoners into doing it.

biko

Locked in a press with a hand grenade.

ScumLord

I think it should be an option in very, very serious cases. Inert gas death though, dragging it out and using killing methods that cause a painful death (which all the American ones do), shouldn't be done. Someone who is to be killed should be a vile person with no hope of rehabilitation.

If I was given a life sentence in an American prison I think I'd go for the death penalty option (not that they'd give it to you if you wanted it).

Degsy

Hell no..some people deserve to be killed gruesomely and publicly as a detterent to others.
Medieval-style executions such as burning at the stake,drawing and quartering,boiling alive,breaking on the wheel and crushing to death should be brought back for certain types of crime.
Maybe the relatives of the victim should get to choose the mode of execution.

Mike 1972

Im not a big fan of capital punishment anyway (not so much because there arent ****ers who deserve it as out of concerns about innocent people being executed) but Ive never been able to get my head around how this notion that capital punishment must be as "humane" as possible can be anything other than an absolute contradiction.

Gaunty

The man in question chose to be executed by firing squad. It was his preferred way to die. It is actually illegal to now to execute anyone by firing squad in Utah since 2004 (i think, may not be the exact date) but any capital crimes commited before then can still get the firing squad. As far as i know this guy killed someone in 1986 so he was still eligible to be executed by firing squad however it was also the last time the firing squad will be used in Utah.

And in my personal opinion, some people deserve the death penalty. No question about in my mind.

robinph

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how so?

It does currently as it is little used and the challenges drag on forever. If is was reasonably common across many countries and was enacted as soon as sentencing and appeal is finished the cost would drop dramatically.

I guess it's good that people are never wrongly sentenced then isn't it?

Could cut down on costs more by giving the judge the gun and he can shoot them immediately after the verdict is given, they then fall straight into a box and then taken off to the crematorium. All done and dusted within a couple of hours.

Banned Account

dark crystal wrote: »

But what exactly does life imprisonment mean? 14 years? 30 years? It's not consistent.

...

Until a life sentence means a life sentence, i.e; staying behind bars until the day you die, I have no problem with the existence of a death penalty.

A life sentence is not the same as life imprisonment. The former means that the sentence is never quashed, it hangs over your head for the rest of your days and can be called back into force at the bequest of the law (minister for justice here?)

Life imprisonment means life behind bars - it is very, very rare here as people get time off the original sentence for good behaviour. The issue that many people have in Ireland is with the sentencing applied by the courts.

As for the death sentence, I am against it in all it's guises - more than a few persons convicted have turned out to be not guilty in the end and in my opinion, as we can never be 100% certain that a mistake cannot be made, the risk of even one innocent man or woman having their life taken in error is too great to allow the practice to be justified.

With regards to ti issue of life imprisonment - hard labour for life etc. Where your feelings lie will be determined by whether you view prison as being punishment only or rehabilitative - if the former then, it makes sense but one would have to accept that this means you have now given up all hope of redemption.

If on the other hand, you view the role of prisons as being there to re-habilitate, then I reckon we need to take a long hard look at our current system as it simply isn't working.

Degsy

minidazzler wrote: »

CO's can no longer beat prisoners into doing it.

Says who? They file an "attempted escape" charge or say that they "defended themselves" when the prisoner "assaulted" them.
There's also a little thing called Secure Housing Units(in the states..they're called 'isolators' in russia.)
Concrete tombs where you can be thrown in and forgotten about if you dont tow the line..23 hours a day on terrible rations with no recreation,visits,luxuries or human contact.
Personally the best incentive to make people work is withhold rations or cut them to a near-starvation level..a few beatings thrown in combined with sleep-deprivation and white noise playing in the cell should help to speed up the co-operation process.

master_chief

Death penalty should be banned.
Instead there should be lifetime sentences, but properly lifetime long not just like 15 years in prison and then granted freedom for good behaviour. During such lifetime sentence, prisoner shall be asked to do some work in prison, where will get only minimum remuneration for basic needs. Rest of his productivity and low cost of such worker will be used somewhere else - for example they could create some inmate workshops manufacturing and selling some parts, maybe some repairs workshop, whatever. Such place could maintain self financing, so inmates will basically cover by their unpaid (little paid) work the cost of running the prison, feeding them and running the "business" they work in. They will have guaranteed contracts with public sector so government could do some savings normally getting same service from private sector - and saved money could finance the prisons. This way it would not be financed by tax payers money, those could be utilized in better way. Maybe it could have even employ some of civilians to run their accounts, etc. so will create some jobs for normal people. If they did not want to work, then they would be locked up in secure separate building in very basic conditions - so basic they will change their mind and get back to work. Those who would work will get little money, enough for cigarettes, small other things, etc. I know - bit hard to implement this idea, but I think possible with bit of better will from politicians... yeah I know I am dreaming, but...

Deus Ex Machina

One perspective which I think is interesting to consider is that of a murder victim's family. Imagine the parents of a serial killer's victim hearing about their daughter being raped and dismembered, and then seeing the killer being anesthetised prior to the given a lethal dose of chemicals, something about that doesn't sit well with me.

o1s1n

robinph wrote: »

I guess it's good that people are never wrongly sentenced then isn't it?

Could cut down on costs more by giving the judge the gun and he can shoot them immediately after the verdict is given, they then fall straight into a box and then taken off to the crematorium. All done and dusted within a couple of hours.

Not sure if Godwin...?

robinph

o1s1n wrote: »

Not sure if Godwin...?

Doh!

Didn't mean it.

doncarlos

Trashbat wrote: »

I think you should be allowed to choose the method of capital punishment you receive. Obviously within reason, but you should be given options at least. I'm not advocating free choice (imagine what the nutters would come up with!)

Death by snu snu!

Degsy

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

One perspective which I think is interesting to consider is that of a murder victim's family. Imagine the parents of a serial killer's victim hearing about their daughter being raped and dismembered, and then seeing the killer being anesthetised prior to the given a lethal dose of chemicals, something about that doesn't sit well with me.

They should have the right to "blood vengeance"...the relatives can exact revenge according to thier wishes.
I know if somebody raped and killed a freind or relative of mine i'd be quite happy to skin them alive using a scalpel...it shouldnt just be limited to capital crimes either..i firmly belive that professional criminals as distinct from wayward youths..thieves..pickpockets,burglars,joyriders etc should be punished in a way that actively prevents them doing it agian...remove a hand for example or blind them in one eye..they wont be bragging about thier latest "charge sheet" in mountjoy coz they wont be able to hold it and cover thier arses at the same time.

rossie1977

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Death sentence sucks. Why give someone the oppertunity to get the easy way out?

Let scum suffer in prison for their lives.

there are pros and cons of capital punishment but lets take this example

lets say a madman comes into your house, proceeds to kill both your parents, strangle your kids to death, rape your wife and kill her, eventually he is caught and spends the rest of his life in prison, during that entire time you pay with your taxes to keep this guy in prison, you pay for his free healthcare, you pay if he wants to get a degree

even worse is that irish prisons are a f**king joke, satellite tv, private cells, nobody suffers in irish prisons, most have much better lives inside than on the street, they are 5 star hotels compared to proper prisons in say brazil or turkey

Morlar

I don't see how firing squad is less humane than gas chamber or injection to be honest. I have no problem with either method, this guy certainly deserved it in my view.

doncarlos

rossie1977 wrote: »

even worse is that irish prison are a f**king joke, they are 5 stars hotels compared to proper prisons in say brazil or turkey

A mate of mines's girlfriend used to teach in a primary school in Tallaght and they used to bring them to a trip to prison to try and scare them. They had to stop as the cells were better than the rooms the kids had at home with TVs and Playstations in them.

Mrmoe

I am pro death penalty. I do not see anything wrong with death by firing squad, hanging, gas or lethal injection. Criminal that commit multiple murders generally do not show any remorse. It is completely different from someone who kill one person in a fit of rage for example. Multiple murderers are vile and we do not need them in our society. Imprisonment for life costs money and that money I would rather put towards better things.

robinph

rossie1977 wrote: »

even worse is that irish prisons are a f**king joke, satellite tv, private cells, nobody suffers in irish prisons, most have much better lives inside than on the street, they are 5 star hotels compared to proper prisons in say brazil or turkey

Have you ever stayed in a 5* hotel before?

rossie1977

doncarlos wrote: »

A mate of mines's girlfriend used to teach in a primary school in Tallaght and they used to bring them to a trip to prison to try and scare them. They had to stop as the cells were better than the rooms the kids had at home with TVs and Playstations in them.

shortly before castlerea prison opened the townsfolk were invited in for a tour of the complex, to say that it was better than the 2 hotels in the town at the time is an understatement

some of this states most cold-blooded killers are now "suffering" in this prison :rolleyes:

rossie1977

robinph wrote: »

Have you ever stayed in a 5* hotel before?

yes i have actually, i have stayed or frequented plenty of 5 star establishments across the globe from wynn las vegas to the ritz in paris but thats besides the point, anyway that wasn't what i said i said irish prisons are 5 star COMPARED to proper prisons, we have satellite tv, playstations for our scumbags, i wonder would they be as quick to come back if it were like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUIAh3COSSo

minidazzler

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

As for the death sentence, I am against it in all it's guises - more than a few persons convicted have turned out to be not guilty in the end and in my opinion, as we can never be 100% certain that a mistake cannot be made, the risk of even one innocent man or woman having their life taken in error is too great to allow the practice to be justified.

By that logic you should be against imprisonment no? Because if one innocent man (Andy Dufresne anyone?) gets locked up for life, that's as bad as a death sentence no? It's still taking their life in error, it's just not killing them.

Degsy wrote: »

Says who? They file an "attempted escape" charge or say that they "defended themselves" when the prisoner "assaulted" them.
There's also a little thing called Secure Housing Units(in the states..they're called 'isolators' in russia.)
Concrete tombs where you can be thrown in and forgotten about if you dont tow the line..23 hours a day on terrible rations with no recreation,visits,luxuries or human contact.
Personally the best incentive to make people work is withhold rations or cut them to a near-starvation level..a few beatings thrown in combined with sleep-deprivation and white noise playing in the cell should help to speed up the co-operation process.

There would still be people who refuse to work and civil rights are being breached in your scenario. The ACLU would be all over it in the states and here, it just wouldn't be tolerated or even ever done.

robinph

minidazzler wrote: »

By that logic you should be against imprisonment no? Because if one innocent man (Andy Dufresne anyone?) gets locked up for life, that's as bad as a death sentence no? It's still taking their life in error, it's just not killing them.

But assuming that the error is noticed before they die of natural causes in jail then things can be done to fix the situation in some way, and to make sure that a similar error doesn't happen again if at all possible.

cynder

Well if someone raped and murdered my kid i think i would go law abiding citizen on them:pac:


slow dismemberment, and painful injection.

Thomas828

There's no such thing as humane capital punishment. Killing is still killing.

StormWarrior

spurious wrote: »

It's not logical. If killing people is wrong, it's wrong no matter who does it.

I don't understand this viewpoint. It's only wrong if you're doing it to an innocent party. Kidnapping people and holding them prisoner is wrong too, when done to an innocent party, but we don't have any issues with arresting criminals and throwing them in prison.