doing badly - diet or illness ?

RobAMerc

Hi all,

Bit of advice required here.

I have been fairly active for the last year or so - running, cycling and circuit training.

Over the last couple of months I have also changed my diet to exclude as much carbs as possible. I'm down very low on that at the moment so I am fairly happy with that.

Anyway - I did the second of the duathlons there recently and found on the cycle ( the stronger of my two events ) I had nothing to give, and for the last couple of weeks i have found this happening a couple of times. tonight during circuits I found myself unable to do much more than 15 pushups.

One thing to note is I am struggling at the moment to clear a chest infection I picked up from my son. I was in bed 2 days last week with it.

So lads, opinion pls, is it the diet or the chest infection causing my poor performance ?


Thanks
Rob

TommyKnocker

Hi Rob

Personally I don't think that anybody can really answer your question with any certainty. This is really something that you should take up with your GP

Really it could be either.

I can understand the low carb diet thing when looking to build muscle & cut body fat, but your training seems to be mostly cardio based with duathlons/triathlons in mind. So for this type of training I would think a decent carb intake to replace glycogen would be beneficial. If you look at Michael Phelps who eats a really high carb (crap food, pizza, chips etc) diet and there isn't a pick on him. Marathon runners carb up before the event. So it seems strange that you chose to go low carb for your type of training and events.

Also my personal philosophy is that any ailment above the neck and I continue to train. Any ailment below the neck and I rest until it's cleared up. Any type of infection at all and I stop training till it is cleared up. Pushing on with training while your body is fighting off an infection would be (in my totally unqualified opinion) an easy way to become run down.

Personally I would be visiting my GP to get checked out and maybe asking for a blood test to check iron levels etc. I would definitely be backing off training until infection was cleared and I got the OK from the doctor.


Best Regards,

M

electric69

your body uses carbs as energy so; less carbs than normal = less energy than normal.for endurance exercises carbs a very important to help your body sustain the output levels you need. by the sounds of your exercise routine you are doing mainly aerobic exercise for longer periods of time so you do need a decent amount of carbs to keep your body going.
Also, the chest infection is obviously going to effect your breathing and reduce your VO2max, making it more difficult to get oxygen into your blood.


how many grammes is "very low"?

There is no point in only eating 20g of carbs if you plan on doing a duathlon that same day,same as there is no point eating 200g of carbs if all you plan on doing is sitting at home all day infront of the tv.

How much protien are you eating everyday?

Khannie

As B-Builder said....it could be either or a bit of both. I have to say though; Unless you're actually in ketosis, carbs are an athletes friend IMO. I just can't even approach peak exertion without carbing it up.

d'Oracle

As an observation, I have never heard of a serious endurance athlete cutting back on the carbs.

Might be worth reading around this idea a bit more.

Colm_OReilly

Need to see your full diet and training routine really.

RobAMerc

Hi all,

I reckon I am getting somewhere between 30 and 60 g carbs per day.
I am trying to drop to my ideal bmi and lose a bit of a ned kelly I have.

I get what ye mean about the lack of carbs - I used to carb load before endurance events (200k plus cycles) etc, I just didn't think the duathlons were in the same league ie 2.7k run 15k cycle 2.7 km run.

I may look into low GL diets or something - low carbs may not be the best mix for me given the sport I am doing.

thanks for the info
Rob

the drifter

30-60 g of carbs for an endurance athelete just doesnt seem right....but as stated we really need to see your training/diet routine....

RobAMerc

ok,

yesterday....


3 egg omelette for breakfast, 2 tomatoes
lunch - home made turkey curry - lean turkey, peppers , leaks, curry powder, cream, good helping of minced cauliflower (rice).
dinner - chilli con carne, lean mince, kidney beans, peppers, onions, chilli flakes, can tomatoes, minced broccoli mash.
snacks : 6 - 8 cups coffee :eek: all with cream :eek: , apple, cheese

exercise - 8km return cycle to work ( fast ) , 1 hr circuits ( bootcamp )

thanks for the help guys
Rob

gavkm27

From what you have said,i would agree with the others and say that your carb intake is way to low,more importantly your overall calorie intake is too low for what you are doing.

Try to remember that your body does not know the difference between a muscle protein or a food protein,it will use whatever is a available,a gram of protein has 4 calories as does a gram of carbohydrate which is stored as fat when not used which is 9 calories,so it will use the smallest easiest thing to breakdown.
You need to feed it complex carbs to feul it while you train or race,otherwise it will breakdown muscle,then when thats all gone the fat,hence looking like a marathon runner but without any energy levels!

What are your goals? it sounds like you believe that reducing carbs is helping in some way,do you want to loose weight? if that is the goal,keep going! but if you want to preform well in the duathlons start fueling your body

RobAMerc

thanks for the input gavkm27

I am trying to lose weight and have found the low carb option the only one which works for me. I am also trying to train for some duathlon events.

Do you think introducing some porridge for breakfast may be a way to fix the carb deficiency issue while keeping the general menu low ( simple ) carb ?

gavkm27

RobAMerc wrote: »

thanks for the input gavkm27

I am trying to lose weight and have found the low carb option the only one which works for me. I am also trying to train for some duathlon events.

Do you think introducing some porridge for breakfast may be a way to fix the carb deficiency issue while keeping the general menu low ( simple ) carb ?

Yes that is a great start,porridge is complex carbs and will take longer to breakdown and digest causing longer lasting and steady energy along with less insulin reaction in the body.

When do you train? after work in the evening? if so carb again at lunch so you have energy to train and then after your workout is probably the most important time in terms of what happens in your body.
After you train the bodys main priority is to replenish glycogen(energy) stores.Your insulin levels drop due to low blood sugar levels.The faster you can get glucose into you bloodstream and muscles,the less protein is destroyed and the more glycogen is restored.So this is the time for simple carbs ideal simple carbs are Dextrose,Maltodextrin or Waxy Maize,if you dont have any of them a gatordae will do(although it contains high fructose corn syrup) which is'nt good.
Then you will get away with not having any carbs for your evening meal,but load up on protein bigtime.

TommyKnocker

Hi OP

Just to add a little to what gavkm27 has said.

You could consider having a a whey protein shake after your workout, before your evening meal.

1 or 2 scoops of whey
1 or 2 scoops of Glucose (simple carb, much like dextrose)
1 t spn of L-Glutamine (I find this helps me with recovery)

mixed with either 200ml ( 1scoop) or 400ml (2 scoops) of cold water.

The Glucose will help with glycogen replacement and create an insulin spike which will help shuttle the other nutrients into your system. The whey will help with muscle repair.

Just remember to count the calories provided by the shake into your daily total.


Best Regards,

M

MissMotivated

What are these - Dextrose,Maltodextrin or Waxy Maize?
I'm trying low carb also to shift the last bit of fat, is it necessary to eat simple carbs after the gym (i lift weights and do a couch to 5k type programme)?

TommyKnocker

MissMotivated wrote: »

What are these - Dextrose,Maltodextrin or Waxy Maize?
I'm trying low carb also to shift the last bit of fat, is it necessary to eat simple carbs after the gym (i lift weights and do a couch to 5k type programme)?

Hi MissMotivated.

It is not "Necessary" to eat simple carbs after your workout but it can help with recovery.

When you work out, your body uses it glycogen stores to provide the energy for the work. If you are lifting heavy (for you) weights, then your muscle also get microscopic tears.

For your body to be ready for your next workout it needs to replace the glycogen and repair the dameged muscle.

So taking a simple carb after training (glucose, dextrose etc) helps with the replacement of glycogen. And if taken in conjunction with whey protein (and I find L-Glutamine helps) you are both replacing the glycogen and providing protein, which your body uses to repair, strengthen and build muscle.

As long as you don't go overboard in the simple carbs, your body will use all the simple carbs for glycogen replacement, so there will be none left to be stored as fat. It is only if your intake was more then required that the excess carbs would be stored as body fat.

After a workout is the only time it's is permissable to take in simple carbs. At all other times of the day any carb intake should be of a complex variety.


Best Regards,

M

gavkm27

MissMotivated wrote: »

What are these - Dextrose,Maltodextrin or Waxy Maize?
I'm trying low carb also to shift the last bit of fat, is it necessary to eat simple carbs after the gym (i lift weights and do a couch to 5k type programme)?

Dextrose is the form in which carbs most be broken down to in order for the body to absorb it and create glycogen(stores of energy in liver and muscle)
and since dextrose is already in the exact form the body requires it is absorbed rapidly through the gut and into the bloodstream boosting insulin and replenishing muscle glycogen

Maltodextrin very similiar although does'nt absorb as quickly as it is a complex carb,although it boosts insulin and glycogen just as much as dextrose.

Waxy Maize is different from both as it's not a sugar,but a strach and bypasses the stomach and is absorbed in the intestine,aparently it does'nt mix well with protein.

MissMotivated

Ok thanks guys, so if I just factor this into my daily cals that would be ok? might look into getting some, any recommendations of where to buy from?

gavkm27

As b-builder said,the 30-40 mins following excersise is the time when you are practcially allowed eat anything you want,sweets whatever,but dextrose is the best form to take in,can be bought in health food shops and online from bulkpowders.co.uk and sites like that

I use Nitrotech Cell Tech,it has 75g Dextrose/10g Creatine per serving

MissMotivated

Excellent thanks gav

gavkm27

It's all opinions,sometimes i'm on the fence regarding an insulin spike,it's a drastic change in the body and i'm not convinced it can actually be good for you,but it pretty much force feeds your muscles sugar and creatine,but it's all about trying different stuff and see how it works out.

MissMotivated

Exactly, might try it out and see how I get on, no harm in trying

Khannie

gavkm27 wrote: »

It's all opinions,sometimes i'm on the fence regarding an insulin spike,it's a drastic change in the body and i'm not convinced it can actually be good for you,but it pretty much force feeds your muscles sugar and creatine,but it's all about trying different stuff and see how it works out.

Also on the fence regarding the post-workout insulin spike malarky. While I accept that if you're gonna eat crap the best time to do it is directly after a workout and I accept that sugar + protein can help with recovery, I'm not convinced that it's good for you.

Now having said that, if I'm exercising twice in the same day, I'll make sure I eat properly after the first session and that the meal includes carbs and protein.

TommyKnocker

Khannie wrote: »

Also on the fence regarding the post-workout insulin spike malarky. While I accept that if you're gonna eat crap the best time to do it is directly after a workout and I accept that sugar + protein can help with recovery, I'm not convinced that it's good for you.

Hi Khannie

Can I ask why you think sugar (dextrose/glucose etc) and protein after a workout might not be good for you ?


Best Regards,

M

Khannie

Sure. The answer is because I'm not sure that insulin spiking is such a great idea. I understand that getting the insulin levels up allows the protein and carbs to be shuttled to cells more effectively and that helps with recovery and that's all well and good. I just don't think it's a natural state for the body to be in.

For me if I took the "recommended" PWO shake it would be 65g of glucose / dextose and 30g odd of fast acting protein...the kind of insulin spike that creates...well....I don't think that's gonna do me any good in the long run. Now maybe I'm just a scardy cat and like I said I do use the PWO window to carb and protein myself up sometimes, just not *all* the time.

Also, for the most part, I don't think people are pushing themselves hard enough to justify it to be blunt. If you've recovered fine by your next workout then chugging a huge amount of simple carbs and protein hasn't done diddly squat for you.

If you've done a hard lifting session, in my experience, a banana or two and some whey with added BCAA's is gonna stave off most of the DOMS.

I started a thread on it a while ago here. G'em called me clever in it so I have it bookmarked.

Khannie

Just to add....This is all goal dependent of course. For me the goal is not muscle gain or fat loss (most of the time). Usually it's building strength and / or anaerobic fitness. Of course if you're trying to build muscle and you're lifting hard then eating well after a workout is gonna help.

Having said that, there was a thread here a while back about a famous bodybuilder guy who had been out of the gym for ages (can't remember his name) and he was posting a video blog about building himself back up (the guy was a bit of a wonder of nature in that he could build muscle at a phenomenal rate) but I took very serious note that he was not using a PWO shake. Instead it was veg, beans and chicken PWO. Looked delicious too.

TommyKnocker

Hi Khannie

I take your point. I never take double the carbs to protein in my PWO shake, more for dental reasons thany anything else. I find my teeth kind of useful

Also, for the most part, I don't think people are pushing themselves hard enough to justify it to be blunt. If you've recovered fine by your next workout then chugging a huge amount of simple carbs and protein hasn't done diddly squat for you.

But just maybe you have recovered because you chugged down a PWO after your previous workout that you have recovered for the next

My major reason for the PWO shake is because I will have something light t0 eat around 16:00 and won't be finished my workout till around 20:00 and then won't get home till around 21:30 ish. So I grab a shake straight after my workout and then have a small meal (protein source and veg) when I get home.


Best Regards,

M

TommyKnocker

Khannie wrote: »

Just to add....This is all goal dependent of course. For me the goal is not muscle gain or fat loss (most of the time). Usually it's building strength and / or anaerobic fitness. Of course if you're trying to build muscle and you're lifting hard then eating well after a workout is gonna help.

Having said that, there was a thread here a while back about a famous bodybuilder guy who had been out of the gym for ages (can't remember his name) and he was posting a video blog about building himself back up (the guy was a bit of a wonder of nature in that he could build muscle at a phenomenal rate) but I took very serious note that he was not using a PWO shake. Instead it was veg, beans and chicken PWO. Looked delicious too.

Yep, I never put too much belief in the 60 minute window idea.

n1ck

Khannie wrote: »

Having said that, there was a thread here a while back about a famous bodybuilder guy who had been out of the gym for ages (can't remember his name) and he was posting a video blog about building himself back up (the guy was a bit of a wonder of nature in that he could build muscle at a phenomenal rate) but I took very serious note that he was not using a PWO shake. Instead it was veg, beans and chicken PWO. Looked delicious too.

I've nothing really to add to the thread but just that I think you're talking about Kevin Levrone, his website and all the information about his workouts are on Levronereport.com.