Roundabouts on the Quay

Chochese

Anybody read the article in The News & Star about the proposed road redevelopments on the quays?

Two roundabouts placed at Gladstone Street and Keyser Street with proposed bus lanes, cycle lanes, pedestrian zones and taxi ranks.

Couldn't find the online article, but here's what's in the 'paper.

longshanks

no doubt there will be a whole load of people whinging about this. personally i think it could be good, trees on the quay would be nice as would losing some of the car parks

merlante

On the face of it, it looks fantastic!

Cabaal

What about a roundabout at the end of bridge street onto rice bridge?

dayshah

I'd like to see a 3-D model first. Coming in from the Dublin direction the Quay makes a good first impression. One or two buildings aren't fantastic, but overall its good.

Now that traffic is reduced due to the new bridge the city council has an opportunity to improve the quay, and I'm glad they are showing initiative.

angry_fox

looks like a great idea, getting rid of some of the car parks would make the quay look a lot better. I don't think a round-about at rice bridge would be a great idea, its such a poor junction because of the way rice bridge does not line up directly with bridge street, it would make it difficult for any sort of a round-about to work there

Bards

Chochese wrote: »

Anybody read the article in The News & Star about the proposed road redevelopments on the quays?

Two roundabouts placed at Gladstone Street and Keyser Street with proposed bus lanes, cycle lanes, pedestrian zones and taxi ranks.

Couldn't find the online article, but here's what's in the 'paper.

here it is http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=mhcwsnkfgb&cat=news

TWO roundabouts are planned for the city’s quays one at the junction of Keizer Street and another at the junction of Gladstone Street.

The roundabouts are part of a comprehensive green route proposal, which is to go on public display in the next week, and barring major stumbling blocks the initial phase of work will commence in September.

From Rice Bridge to Colbeck Street, the face of the quay will be changed with new pedestrian areas, bus lanes, cycle lanes, coach parking and taxi ranks.

A line of trees will also be planted between the two road carriages as part of the overall new green look.

Current parking space will be totally eliminated from outside City Hall and from there up to the junction of Colbeck Street, which is now dedicated to coach parking facilitating tourists to the new Waterford Crystal Visitor Centre.

The new green route is radically changed from a plan previously proposed and to which a large number of submissions were made by members of the public.

Unveiling the plan, Senior Engineer, Frank Roche told members of the City Council last night (Monday) that they would now be writing to those people inviting them to make new submissions if they wish.

It is expected that the plan will go on public display within the week and people will then have six weeks to make their observations.

Frank Roche said that the idea behind the installation of small roundabouts on the Quay is to allow bus traffic to circulate in both directions. He also confirmed that they would require the acquisition of small pieces of the existing car parks on the quay.

Proposing the adoption of the plan, Cllr. Tom Cunningham said that following on from the Waterford Crystal development it would be seen as a further enhancement of the Mall and The Quay, and it would be a catalyst for the Viking Triangle.

He expressed the hope that once the infrastructure, such as bus lanes, were in place the public transport providers would provide a greatly enhanced service which would help encourage people leave their cars at home.

Similar sentiments were expressed by Cllr. Seamus Ryan who seconded the adoption of the plan to enable it go on public display.

Cllr. Ryan went on to express concern about the exit from the Railway Station, which he said was particularly dangerous. While that area does not form part of the green route, he was told that it would be looked at in the future.

Welcoming the proposal, Cllr. Mary Roche said it would transform the city and was part of the joined up thinking of the City Council to remove heavy traffic, in particular HGVs, from the Quay and the Mall.

She said she particularly liked the idea of the provision of trees. “The overall proposal will slow traffic down and will change the look and feel of Waterford city,” she said.

Cllr. Cha O’Neill said that while he was delighted that there was provision for trees, he did not want them to be of the same type planted outside the Tower Hotel.

“Whoever put them there, I could kill them,” he commented.

The councillor explained that the trees were so big that it was now difficult to see the hotel, adding, “there are overgrown branches everywhere.”

He concluded that he did not want a person walking off the footpath or traffic island and getting knocked down because they could not see traffic coming.

The elimination of parking outside City Hall was also universally welcomed. At night, however, the new coach parking bays can be used by motorists and those attending the area, for example shows at the Theatre Royal.

Odats

Cabaal wrote: »

What about a roundabout at the end of bridge street onto rice bridge?

Makes sense.

Cabaal

Odats wrote: »

Makes sense.

I figure it would solve that right turn ****e that goes on constantly at that junction, one person looking to turn right can hold up 20-30 cars...its a joke.

To ensure less madness you could have a traffic light controlled roundabout,

tonc76

Cabaal wrote: »

What about a roundabout at the end of bridge street onto rice bridge?

I don't think the space is available to build a roundabout (without reclaiming some land from the river = €€€). There are 2 lanes on 3 of the approaches to this junction - Bridge St., Quay and Rice Bridge. The central island would need to be of a sufficient size in order for it to work. The attached jpeg shows the area required for the roundabout on at Plunkett Station which has a similar footprint.

I think its a good idea though to construct 2 new roundabouts along the Quays as these will allow cars access to and egress from the car parks for both directions of travel.

Cabaal

Fair enough, so they'd need to claim land from the river which as you said would be expensive, shame really as it could have helped solve alot of traffic problems.

I think BEFORE they go about changing all the road layout on the quays they first should clamp down on illegal parking, double parking etc on the quays as this will allow people to use the left lane correctly.

This is an ongoing problem and no amount of roundabouts will fix this issue,

merlante

Cabaal wrote: »

Fair enough, so they'd need to claim land from the river which as you said would be expensive, shame really as it could have helped solve alot of traffic problems.

I think BEFORE they go about changing all the road layout on the quays they first should clamp down on illegal parking, double parking etc on the quays as this will allow people to use the left lane correctly.

This is an ongoing problem and no amount of roundabouts will fix this issue,

Indeed, they should make sure there is plenty of space for buses, loading/unloading, etc., so that the road is a road.

Bards

Cabaal wrote: »

Fair enough, so they'd need to claim land from the river which as you said would be expensive, shame really as it could have helped solve alot of traffic problems.

I think BEFORE they go about changing all the road layout on the quays they first should clamp down on illegal parking, double parking etc on the quays as this will allow people to use the left lane correctly.

This is an ongoing problem and no amount of roundabouts will fix this issue,

AFAIK they intend to only have one driving lane in each direction - the exisinting dualler was fine when the N25 ran through there - but is not now required since the bypass opened

JohnC.

Bards wrote: »

AFAIK they intend to only have one driving lane in each direction - the exisinting dualler was fine when the N25 ran through there - but is not now required since the bypass opened

So now the entire westbound direction will be held up with traffic waiting to go up to City Square? Surely the roundabout should be at Exchange St. instead of Keizer St? Unless they are also planning on changing the whole system of streets around there and have City Square traffic go in via Keizer instead.

Max Powers

2 questions:

A line of trees on road central reservation is planned, will that not take from the view of the quays/river which is what they are trying to attract down there?

Will it be a traffic nightmare with cars backed up along the Mall, parnell st, lombard st, dunmore road, cork road, bridge street etc.

dayshah

Max Powers wrote: »

2 questions:

A line of trees on road central reservation is planned, will that not take from the view of the quays/river which is what they are trying to attract down there?

Will it be a traffic nightmare with cars backed up along the Mall, parnell st, lombard st, dunmore road, cork road, bridge street etc.

Regarding the trees it would be nice to see a 3-D model or artists impression first.

For the traffic, the new bridge should have reduced traffic flows.

mike65

Only if enough people use it

tonc76

Kahless wrote: »

So now the entire westbound direction will be held up with traffic waiting to go up to City Square? Surely the roundabout should be at Exchange St. instead of Keizer St? Unless they are also planning on changing the whole system of streets around there and have City Square traffic go in via Keizer instead.

The top map appears to show the start of a dedicated left turn lane for Exchane Street but it would make sense for city square to be accessed from the roundabout via Keizer Street and to revsrse the one way system on High Street. There is a gap between the 2 maps which leaves out Exchange Street, Conduit Lane and Barronstrand Street though.

hellfireie

they should lose 50% of the carparks and add some nice green areas a few picnic tables + and seating maybe a open air concert area ( i know the plaza is there buts it not ideal). make it a place where you could go for a stroll rather then a place you hurry past

bullpost

hellfireie wrote: »

they should lose 50% of the carparks and add some nice green areas a few picnic tables + and seating maybe a open air concert area ( i know the plaza is there buts it not ideal). make it a place where you could go for a stroll rather then a place you hurry past

+1

dayshah

hellfireie wrote: »

they should lose 50% of the carparks and add some nice green areas a few picnic tables + and seating maybe a open air concert area ( i know the plaza is there buts it not ideal). make it a place where you could go for a stroll rather then a place you hurry past

A seating area would go well with the marina.

ToxicPaddy

The only issue I'd have with losing some of the carparks is around times like Xmas, when the town in crazy and there is no parking to be had anywhere even with all the carparks.. so imagine what it will be like if they get rid of a few hundred car parking spaces on the quays.. chaos..

Apart from that, I like the idea.. it will make the place look a lot more like a more appealing river front that nearly every other city in Europe who has one is making the most of..

I think they should also forget about developing the north quays for the time being until the economic outlook improves, demolish those bloody storage towers and turn it into a park area for the time being.. somewhere that can actually be used..

dayshah

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

The only issue I'd have with losing some of the carparks is around times like Xmas, when the town in crazy and there is no parking to be had anywhere even with all the carparks.. so imagine what it will be like if they get rid of a few hundred car parking spaces on the quays.. chaos..

Perhaps that could be solved with some sort of park and ride setup. Also maybe at Christmas the council could have some sort of half price bus fares or something, so people don't use the car, or special arrangements with taxi drivers.

JohnC.

Or if they ever got around to building that footbridge that keeps getting proposed to bring people across from the North Quays. Would a footbridge cost that much, in the grand scheme of things?

dayshah

In fairness though, the Suir (or Quay river to show my Waterfordness) is far far wider than the Liffey or Laoi. I'd imagine it would be pricey (especially as ships have to pass too.

Trick of the Tail

Let's wait to see what a hames they make of it, and how many times they have to re-do it to get it right.

The planners there don't have a good record of designing road layouts in Waterford.

A.

tonc76

alinton wrote: »

Let's wait to see what a hames they make of it, and how many times they have to re-do it to get it right.

The planners there don't have a good record of designing road layouts in Waterford.

A.

FFS

Have you read the article? The proposal is going "on public display in the next week" so why not go and have a look at it, raise any issues that you have and have some input into the project rather than "wait to see what a hames they make of it, and how many times they have to re-do it to get it right".

And just so you know planners don't design road layouts :rolleyes:

mike65

alinton proably remembers the Folly of a "roundabout" at the bottom of the Folly

Joe Gt

what's the fascination with round abouts in ireland ? do the road planners or councils think they are magic and solve all there problems , was in Belfast during the week and got around the city with ease and not a round about in sight , a good one way system with upto 4 lanes in one direction .

tonc76

mike65 wrote: »

alinton proably remembers the Folly of a "roundabout" at the bottom of the Folly

I think the technical name is "eggabout" :pac:

Joey leBlanc

Judging by the superb job the City Council made of the newly revamped Newtown Rd./Dunmore Rd. I'm sure their plans for the Quay will be a great success! Their seems to be constant tailbacks & queue's in all directions since the traffic lights have been switched on. Madness & a complete waste of money in these recessionary times.
The Quay is one the City's great assets & moves to upgrade it are most welcome. The sight of cruise ships dropping anchor across on the North Wharf is surely not the most inviting introduction to Waterford; however if they were to dock on The Quayside it would provide easy access to the city, reg's tower, city hall, wfd crystal etc.
Something that really should be sorted out it the number of traffic lights pedestrian crossings on the Quay. From the Bridge to the Tower Hotel there are 5 sets of lights! Just when u negotiate one set another turns red. A better solution would be to construct undergound walkways underneath the road; you see these all over the world & would prevent the constant starting & stopping that currently exists. As for car parks instead of building multi storey eyesores again go undergound!

Kxiii

tonc76 wrote: »

I think the technical name is "eggabout" :pac:

Or Oblongabout.

That really needs to be re done, I don't how many times I've had to slam on the brakes when trying to go right from the Folly to Ballytruckle when someone going straight through to the inner ring road cuts me up.

Anyone else think one place a roundabout is needed is going from Poleberry onto Ballytruckle. It might do something to alleviate the Q in Poleberry in the evenings.

dayshah

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

The Quay is one the City's great assets & moves to upgrade it are most welcome. The sight of cruise ships dropping anchor across on the North Wharf is surely not the most inviting introduction to Waterford; however if they were to dock on The Quayside it would provide easy access to the city, reg's tower, city hall, wfd crystal etc.

I think that might need significant investment, the south quays aren't suitable at the moment. It's probably cheaper just to make the north quays look decent.

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Something that really should be sorted out it the number of traffic lights pedestrian crossings on the Quay. From the Bridge to the Tower Hotel there are 5 sets of lights! Just when u negotiate one set another turns red. A better solution would be to construct undergound walkways underneath the road; you see these all over the world & would prevent the constant starting & stopping that currently exists. As for car parks instead of building multi storey eyesores again go undergound!

Underground walkways by the quay might be prone to flooding. I suppose pumps could help. An underground car-park (somewhere elevated like the Glen or Ballybricken) would be a really good idea. They do it in other cities to great effect.

thomasm

Can see the benefit of these roundabouts after passing emergency services who looked like they were cutting someone out of a car down by the turn onto the Quay from O'Connell St closest to the Bridge at lunchtime. Looks like someone pulled out and got a right whack of a car\truck (big roadstone tipper truck right beside car that got the belt).

fricatus

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

The Quay is one the City's great assets & moves to upgrade it are most welcome. The sight of cruise ships dropping anchor across on the North Wharf is surely not the most inviting introduction to Waterford; however if they were to dock on The Quayside it would provide easy access to the city, reg's tower, city hall, wfd crystal etc.

Very true...

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Something that really should be sorted out it the number of traffic lights pedestrian crossings on the Quay. From the Bridge to the Tower Hotel there are 5 sets of lights! Just when u negotiate one set another turns red.

The Quay is a whole kilometre long, and runs through the heart of the city. Remember that your number of five crossings includes both ends, so it's really only three. If anything, it needs more pedestrian lights, not fewer. The evidence for this is the large number of people you see daily waiting in the middle, running the gauntlet of huge trucks, crossing near places like Gladstone St, Keizer St and Conduit Lane.

You can make the argument that those are just silly people who should jolly well walk to the nearest pedestrian crossing, but I think that's a flawed argument when it's the city centre that you're talking about. Pedestrians, not vehicles, need to be given priority in the centre of town, especially given the volume of parking and the number of bus stops on the river side.

In my view, what's needed is a loading/short-term parking "lane" on the city side. The next lane out should be a single westbound lane. The next out from that should be a combination of trees, a pedestrian refuge, and right-turn slips for traffic. The next lane out then can serve eastbound traffic.

In addition to this, there should be flashing-amber crossings at the end of every street, giving priority to pedestrians. This would reduce the speed of traffic, as drivers would have to watch for every crossing, but it would also allow a reasonable degree of traffic flow.

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

A better solution would be to construct undergound walkways underneath the road; you see these all over the world & would prevent the constant starting & stopping that currently exists.

No, definitely not. Yes, they work in big cities, where there's a reasonable number of pedestrians day and night. In somewhere like Waterford though, they'd just be a magnet for trouble. You do see them all over the world (e.g. Milton Keynes or Coventry), but that doesn't make them a good idea. Even in somewhere like Madrid, the crossing under calle Alcalá is full of drug addicts. Putting this in place would be turning the Quay into even more of a motorway, which is precisely the direction we don't want to go in.

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

As for car parks instead of building multi storey eyesores again go undergound!

That's definitely a good idea though.

mike65

Underpasses are the devils work. Every watch the movies? only bad stuff happens in them! Even if its only severe claustrophobia.

junkster12345

instead of an underpass , make a foot bridge over the road somewhere near the bus depot , im sure thats where most of the pedestrian traffic would need to cross

dayshah

junkster12345 wrote: »

instead of an underpass , make a foot bridge over the road somewhere near the bus depot , im sure thats where most of the pedestrian traffic would need to cross

They said they are going to put some sort of 3 metre wide island in the middle. If traffic is reduced to one lane in either direction that should make it easy enough to cross. You'd only need to clear one lane at a time, whereas now you have to clear 4 lanes.

Hoffmans

the dutch owners of the new bypass continue to put pressure on the powers that be to force more traffic over their loss making toll bridge....

this is all another mad idea like the dunmore road mess lanes on lanes
bus lanes?? theres only 4 buses an hour passing along:rolleyes: its not dublin ffs...

so with all other routes for hgvs blocked off with bye laws (which is good)
the remanining route is to be reduced to a cowpath........

Bards

Hoffmans wrote: »

the dutch owners of the new bypass continue to put pressure on the powers that be to force more traffic over their loss making toll bridge.... ....

CRG is made up of

NTR - Irish 33.33%
Dragados - Spanish 33.33%
Royal BAM - Dutch 33.33%

I don't see why only one of the 3 consortia would try to put pressure on the City Council when the COmpany that controls the toll is Southlink which is a subsidary of CRG and surely it is this company that would be in discussion with the City Council

Beeker

Bards wrote: »

CRG is made up of

NTR - Irish 33.33%
Dragados - Spanish 33.33%
Royal BAM - Dutch 33.33%

I don't see why only one of the 3 consortia would try to put pressure on the City Council when the COmpany that controls the toll is Southlink which is a subsidary of CRG and surely it is this company that would be in discussion with the City Council

Off topic I know but can anyone tell me who is responsible for the road signs on the new bypass, NRA or Waterford City Council? I am specifically interested in the signs on the double roundabout joining the bypass just after the new WIT campus.

tonc76

Beeker wrote: »

Off topic I know but can anyone tell me who is responsible for the road signs on the new bypass, NRA or Waterford City Council? I am specifically interested in the signs on the double roundabout joining the bypass just after the new WIT campus.

NRA would have initially produced specimen design for the scheme to be included in tender package. Contractor's (Dragados) designer would have produced sign design for constuction which required NRA sign-off before being erected. Waterford City Council's input (regarding signs) would have been during contract document preparation.

Beeker

tonc76 wrote: »

NRA would have initially produced specimen design for the scheme to be included in tender package. Contractor's (Dragados) designer would have produced sign design for constuction which required NRA sign-off before being erected. Waterford City Council's input (regarding signs) would have been during contract document preparation.

Thanks for that but wondering who is now responsible for them, removing or adding to them?

tonc76

Beeker wrote: »

Thanks for that but wondering who is now responsible for them, removing or adding to them?

Depends on where you are talking about. Signs on the scheme itself are dealt with by Southlink/CRG (the operators). Signs outside the scheme are under the control of the Local Authorities. All signs outside the scheme should have been upsated to reflect teh change of route numbers i.e. from N25 to R680 etc

Beeker

tonc76 wrote: »

Depends on where you are talking about. Signs on the scheme itself are dealt with by Southlink/CRG (the operators). Signs outside the scheme are under the control of the Local Authorities. All signs outside the scheme should have been upsated to reflect teh change of route numbers i.e. from N25 to R680 etc

The one's I am interested it are on the two small roundabouts at the junction of the bypass and the road leading to Waterford {South} just before the roundabout at the new WIT campus.

Joey leBlanc

How about no road signage on any of our roads & let's have one big magical mystery tour eh? Who knows where one could end up of a Sunday afternoon? Another solution would be to let them settle it between themselves old style;
The N25 -vs- R680 Cage Match - Fight to the Death # 1!

tonc76

Beeker wrote: »

The one's I am interested it are on the two small roundabouts at the junction of the bypass and the road leading to Waterford {South} just before the roundabout at the new WIT campus.

What's wrong there/what do you want to see/what do you think needs to be done?

Beeker

tonc76 wrote: »

What's wrong there/what do you want to see/what do you think needs to be done?

I will start a new thread on this called the Tale of two Signs.:)

Daysha

Anyone know what's the story with this then? The article said work would begin in September.

Psychedelic

Daysha wrote: »

Anyone know what's the story with this then? The article said work would begin in September.

Some work was supposed to start before Christmas, with the majority of the work to be started in January. All the work should be finished by Easter time I think.

Chris P. Bacon

Can't wait to see what the quays are going to be like around Christmas time,if they do start that work.