How to recognise a proper M?

Paparazzo

OK, can someone tell me how to recognise a proper M series BMW? I always thought (on modern ones anyway) the 4 exhausts were a giveaway, also the M tag on vent beside the side indicator.
What about the older ones? 6-7 year old ones. It seems about half of them have single exhausts but an M badge? Surely that amount of people couldn't have stuck an M badge on their car? Or is there some older models with a single (or even twin) exhaust?

Alanstrainor

M is also a spec level, better equipment, harder suspension things like that. Not every 3'er with an M badge is trying to be an M3

Paparazzo

Alanstrainor wrote: »

M is also a spec level, better equipment, harder suspension things like that. Not every 3'er with an M badge is trying to be an M3

Ah right, so for instance a 320 M is just one with a few extras as standard, but the M3 is the daddy?
That makes sense!

Heroditas

Paparazzo wrote: »

OK, can someone tell me how to recognise a proper M series BMW?

On a newer M5, look for the grills on the front wings

_rebelkid

Alot of the time, if there is an m badge on the wheel it is a proper m car, if its only on the outside though it probably isnt an m car. Also, if the exhausts( however many) have been modified, it isnt an m car

Gumbo

as above theres a difference between an M Car and an M-sport Car.

MSport is a trim level with stiffer suspension, different wheels and different interier including alcantarra seats, thicker steering wheel (Multi Function) and different gear knobs and gaiters.

you cannot confuse a proper M Car as nearly every panel is different than the standard car. but one or 2 of the tale tails are as you/ve mentioned the 4 exhausts and the grills in the front wings although ive seen a few E60 5 series with the grills in the front wings and a 2.9 diesel engine under the bonnet :eek:

_rebelkid wrote: »

Alot of the time, if there is an m badge on the wheel it is a proper m car, if its only on the outside though it probably isnt an m car. Also, if the exhausts( however many) have been modified, it isnt an m car

the M badge is standard on the M-Sport wheels also, not just on the M powered cars. and alot of genuine M powered car owners could also upgrade their exhausts to Eisenmann or super sprint or similar exhaust systems.

_rebelkid

Heroditas wrote: »

On a newer M5, look for the grills on the front wings

Technically speaking, thats the old m5 cause the M5 F10 hasnt been released, but it will have a 4.4l Twin-Turbo V8:D

_rebelkid

kceire wrote: »

you cannot confuse a proper M Car as nearly every panel is different than the standard car. but one or 2 of the tale tails are as you/ve mentioned the 4 exhausts and the grills in the front wings although ive seen a few E60 5 series with the grills in the front wings and a 2.9 diesel engine under the bonnet :eek:

Those wings, front grill and splitter are a m-sport options pack you can get, so it is confusing:D

Mr Benevolent

I usually look for flared wheel arches, front wing grilles and 4 exhausts. Not always a definitive indicator though.

_rebelkid

Confab wrote: »

I usually look for flared wheel arches, front wing grilles and 4 exhausts. Not always a definitive indicator though.

thats a good point

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

Those wings, front grill and splitter are a m-sport options pack you can get, so it is confusing:D

are you sure?
i have never ever seen it as an option for any of the BMW's i have had, my family have bought or in any of the option list i have ever looked at.

_rebelkid

kceire wrote: »

are you sure?
i have never ever seen it as an option for any of the BMW's i have had, my family have bought or in any of the option list i have ever looked at.

They were on the car configurator on the website ( www.bmw.ie ) but since they have a new gen, i dont know the options list;)

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

They were on the car configurator on the website ( www.bmw.ie ) but since they have a new gen, i dont know the options list;)

ive never seen that option on the config site. its not there for the 3 series and the current 3 series is the same body as the current M3.

_rebelkid

kceire wrote: »

ive never seen that option on the config site. its not there for the 3 series and the current 3 series is the same body as the current M3.

well it was there for the 5 cause if done it loads of times!:D

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

well it was there for the 5 cause if done it loads of times!:D

well we'll have to agree to disagree because i spec'd up up a 5 series M-Sport early last year on the website and it wasnt there, and when we collected the car (before the F10 Model) it still wasnt on it.

the only cars ive seen it done on are cars that had a smack and the panels were not genuine BMW panels but panels that a body shop has cut into and made work and the rest of the car was kinda done on an M5 theme with 4 exhausts etc etc but it still never looks like the genuine car, it was easily spotted.


to make the genuine M5 panels fit the typical 5 series SE or M-Sport would require new bonnet, fron bumper and front wings.

kdevitt

The side grilles were not an option on any other cars, they're standard fit on the E60 M5 and E46/E92 M3's. Thats not to say you can't fit them.

The brakes are generally a good place to start looking if you're confused.

_rebelkid

kceire wrote: »

well we'll have to agree to disagree because i spec'd up up a 5 series M-Sport early last year on the website and it wasnt there, and when we collected the car (before the F10 Model) it still wasnt on it.

the only cars ive seen it done on are cars that had a smack and the panels were not genuine BMW panels but panels that a body shop has cut into and made work and the rest of the car was kinda done on an M5 theme with 4 exhausts etc etc but it still never looks like the genuine car, it was easily spotted.


to make the genuine M5 panels fit the typical 5 series SE or M-Sport would require new bonnet, fron bumper and front wings.

a year is a long time in the car industry. 3 months ago, before the F10 i specced up a 525d SE, I added the multi-function wheel, leather heated and ventilated seats, Xenon headlights, BMW Business system, M-sport styling pack, and the the bluetooth system. It was all there!!

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

a year is a long time in the car industry. 3 months ago, before the F10 i specced up a 525d SE, I added the multi-function wheel, leather heated and ventilated seats, Xenon headlights, BMW Business system, M-sport styling pack, and the the bluetooth system. It was all there!!

and thus where the confusion begins, the M-Sport stying pack is NOT the M5 kit. its the M-Sport kit.

this is an SE 5 series - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520-D-SE/201012197326622/advert?channel=CARS

this is an M-sport Stying kit - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/M-SPORT-/200928194588542/advert?channel=CARS albeit with the optional upgraded 172 alloys.

this is a genuine M5 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M5/M5-NB92-/201020198037130/advert?channel=CARS

Matt Simis

_rebelkid wrote: »

a year is a long time in the car industry. 3 months ago, before the F10 i specced up a 525d SE, I added the multi-function wheel, leather heated and ventilated seats, Xenon headlights, BMW Business system, M-sport styling pack, and the the bluetooth system. It was all there!!

M-Sport Styling pack isnt M-Car body panels...

To the OP, tax disc has the CC listed..

PrettyBoy

The four exhaust pipes, side grilles and mirrors are all indicators. These are not OEM options, though there are countless aftermarket replica products available.

_rebelkid

Matt Simis wrote: »

M-Sport Styling pack isnt M-Car body panels...

well thats what the description was....

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

well thats what the description was....

yes but the M-Sport styling kit is an M-Sport styling kit, it is not an M5 kit or genuine M-Powered car kit. have a look at my llinks to show the differences. trust me, genuine M5 or M3 panals were never an option on SE or M-Sport cars.

tossy

So many faking the funk right now i look for Brakes (most fakers won't go that far) and listen for sound something you can't buy on eBay.

Gumbo

tossy wrote: »

So many faking the funk right now i look for Brakes (most fakers won't go that far) and listen for sound something you can't buy on eBay.

theres just something about them, when you see one you can tell after 2 seconds wether its real or not! its even the same with the replica RS4 cars, you can tell straight away without looking for tax discs etc etc

when i park my S3 beside an A3 its like chawlk and chees, but i do admit it can get confusing for the non car lovers among us.

_rebelkid

This confusion is actually BMW Fault. People wanted an M5 looking car, but didnt want an M5. so a styling pack was made. Then, with modification rife, it got out of hand. Then this discussion ensued!!:D:D

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

This confusion is actually BMW Fault. People wanted an M5 looking car, but didnt want an M5. so a styling pack was made. Then, with modification rife, it got out of hand. Then this discussion ensued!!:D:D

not really, the M-Sport kit just beefs up the SE, better wheels, better interiers, better handling etc etc they never looked like an M5/M3 in the slightist, you can always tell the difference, its when you see a car with fake parts and fake badges that throw people.

_rebelkid

tossy wrote: »

So many faking the funk right now i look for Brakes (most fakers won't go that far) and listen for sound something you can't buy on eBay.

even if you do listen for sound, you can change anything to sound like anything else, except for diesels. With audis, the bodykits on fake rs4's are quite extravagant, the real one isnt as.

off topic, how is your S3 going?

_rebelkid

kceire wrote: »

not really, the M-Sport kit just beefs up the SE, better wheels, better interiers, better handling etc etc they never looked like an M5/M3 in the slightist, you can always tell the difference, its when you see a car with fake parts and fake badges that throw people.

1. Wheels are a separate accessory
2. Interiors is also a separate add-on after you choose trim level
3. Handling is done by the i-drive and theActive suspension upgrade

PrettyBoy

_rebelkid wrote: »

This confusion is actually BMW Fault. People wanted an M5 looking car, but didnt want an M5. so a styling pack was made. Then, with modification rife, it got out of hand. Then this discussion ensued!!:D:D

In all fairness the 5 series looks ****e without the 'M' Styling pack.

CaraFawn

The only way to tell if a car is a M or not is by the VIN number: The first 3 digits are WBS instead of the usual WBA for BMW.

A badge, a wheel or even a 318i with a M-Tech body kit is not a M, period!

MetzgerMeister

Here's how I spot a real E46/E90 M3:

Four centered exhausts
Air vents over the front wheel arches
Power bulge in the bonnet
Air vents in the bonnet
Carbon fibre roof (Only on the E90 and the E46 CSL)

It's very easy to have an M-Sport car with the uprated suspension, M-tech body kit, boot lip spoiler and M-tech alloys (a lot of which can be replicas).

It might just be my imagination but the OEM bodykit on a real E46 M3 is different to one that's bought and put on a normal 3'er. Also the headlights are different and I think the edges of the front grille are wider.

Stick-on air vents for the wheel arches are available but not the ones for the bonnet or even the power bulge in the bonnet.

Also if you can, check the tax disc. If it's and E46 and it says 3.2, that's an M3. On an E92, if it says 4.0 that's an M3.

If it's going very very fast, that's also a sign

I'm not too sure about the older ones (pre 1999)

tossy

_rebelkid wrote: »

even if you do listen for sound, you can change anything to sound like anything else, except for diesels. With audis, the bodykits on fake rs4's are quite extravagant, the real one isnt as.

off topic, how is your S3 going?

I don't have an S3 (joking)

As for sound you can't change anything to sound like anything lol,there is no way you can get that V10 sound out of a 520,530 or 535 petrol or diesel :D

Matt Simis

kceire wrote: »

and thus where the confusion begins, the M-Sport stying pack is NOT the M5 kit. its the M-Sport kit.

this is an SE 5 series - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520-D-SE/201012197326622/advert?channel=CARS

this is an M-sport Stying kit - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/M-SPORT-/200928194588542/advert?channel=CARS albeit with the optional upgraded 172 alloys.

this is a genuine M5 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M5/M5-NB92-/201020198037130/advert?channel=CARS

Snap!
Though those links dont work for me.

CaraFawn wrote: »

The only way to tell if a car is a M or not is by the VIN number: The first 3 digits are WBS instead of the usual WBA for BMW.
A badge, a wheel or even a 318i with a M-Tech body kit is not a M, period!

Yup, WBS is the M-Car VIN, just like my 850CSi has, an M-Car in all but branding. They also list the manufacturer as "BMW Motorsport" instead of just BMW on the Chassis plate.

Anan1

_rebelkid wrote: »

This confusion is actually BMW Fault. People wanted an M5 looking car, but didnt want an M5. so a styling pack was made. Then, with modification rife, it got out of hand. Then this discussion ensued!!:D:D

If you ask me, it's the customers' fault. Here's an original, handbuilt M5 - fast, discreet, and elegant. Debadge it and nobody need ever know that it's not a 518i.

RobertM

I also think that the proper M3/M5 have the M badges on the steering wheel and in the dashboard

CaraFawn

RobertM wrote: »

I also think that the proper M3/M5 have the M badges on the steering wheel and in the dashboard

No
This is an option even on a 316i

RobertM

CaraFawn wrote: »

No
This is an option even on a 316i

Well, I stand corrected then. I just read somewhere that the M cars come with M badges there. Must have been someone just giving an opinion

Anan1

AFAIK the real Motorsport cars have always had red instrument needles instead of white. Although doubtless they can and will also be fitted to a 520d these days.

CaraFawn

RobertM wrote: »

Well, I stand corrected then. I just read somewhere that the M cars come with M badges there. Must have been someone just giving an opinion

Yeah the wheel can be bought from the dealer or even eBay or whatever.

This is a 330i here, not a M obviously.

CaraFawn

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK the real Motorsport cars have always had red instrument needles instead of white. Although doubtless they can and will also be fitted to a 520d these days.

It can be fitted alright, but a few things won't work right, like oil temp, engine RPM...
But you are right, red niddles are usually the sign of a M.
Black liners too.

Anyway, people who know BMW will be able to tell if this is a M or not, without having to look for the VIN number.

Gumbo

_rebelkid wrote: »

1. Wheels are a separate accessory
2. Interiors is also a separate add-on after you choose trim level
3. Handling is done by the i-drive and theActive suspension upgrade

M-Sport wheels come standard on the M-Sport Trim level car. on the E90 they are 17" wheels and have the M badge on them, but this is M-Sport styling, not M-Powered wheels that look like the M3 etc
the M-Sport interier again is standard on the M-Sport trim level, you dont need to add any extra interier buts at all, this includes Alcantarra bucket seats, M-Sport Gear knob and gaitor, M-Sport multi function steering wheel.
handling on theM-sport contains a differnt set of springs as it site 20mm iirc lower than the SE model. i-drive doesnt come into it as thats whole differnce kettle of fish (what about cars that didnt spec the i-drive?)

i think your getting very confused on the differences between the M-Sport (styling) and the genune M cars such as M3, M5 etc.

CaraFawn wrote: »

Yeah the wheel can be bought from the dealer or even eBay or whatever.

This is a 330i here, not a M obviously.

that steering wheel is standard in the M-Sport trim level on all cars including 3 series, 5 series etc.
its not trying to copy an M3 or M5 or similar its the standard M-Sport kit.

Marlow

Paparazzo wrote: »

OK, can someone tell me how to recognise a proper M series BMW? I always thought (on modern ones anyway) the 4 exhausts were a giveaway, also the M tag on vent beside the side indicator.
What about the older ones? 6-7 year old ones. It seems about half of them have single exhausts but an M badge? Surely that amount of people couldn't have stuck an M badge on their car? Or is there some older models with a single (or even twin) exhaust?

There's a lot of giveaways, but often you've got to know your cars.

Example E39 M5: the oval center-mirror instead of a rectangular one and the folding mirrors. Most Msport cars don't have the folding mirrors and I've never seen the oval center-mirror in non-M cars.

At the end of the day, you'll have to look under the bonnet

_rebelkid wrote: »

Alot of the time, if there is an m badge on the wheel it is a proper m car, if its only on the outside though it probably isnt an m car. Also, if the exhausts( however many) have been modified, it isnt an m car

Well, none of this is really valid. I was sitting besides an E60 520d with M-wheels yesterday, that had the M markings AND my M5 has AC Schnitzer exhausts, which look completely different from the standard 4 tailpipes. So you can't go by any of what you stated.

/M

Tea 1000

Matt Simis wrote: »

To the OP, tax disc has the CC listed..

Not anymore unfortunately.

Gumbo

Marlow wrote: »

There's a lot of giveaways, but often you've got to know your cars.

Example E39 M5: the oval center-mirror instead of a rectangular one and the folding mirrors. Most Msport cars don't have the folding mirrors and I've never seen the oval center-mirror in non-M cars.

the oval mirror was a popular upgrade on the X5 by alot of the Uk lads. it couldnt be spec'd from the factory but the lads had to buy the mirror as a part from the dealers afterwords and retrofit.

nice little touch it made.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not anymore unfortunately.

wouldnt say theres too many M cars registered since 2008 with the CO2 system, puts M3 and M5 cars into the €2100 motor tax bracket.

Marlow

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not anymore unfortunately.

Would you go in depth with that ? Do you mean for cars after July 2008 ??

Because I renewed tax 2 months ago and it clearly says "4941" in the second line, which is the cc in my case.

/M

Zubeneschamali

If I owned an M car I'd have as much of that M branding as possible off it.

Marlow

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If I owned an M car I'd have as much of that M branding as possible off it.

Well, because there's so many Msports around and it's not easy to differ between msport and m cars, it doesn't really matter

Lots of people don't believe it's an M, when they see a real one.

/M

Gumbo

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If I owned an M car I'd have as much of that M branding as possible off it.

the only branding you can realistically take off is the M3/M5 badge from the rear bootlid. the genuine wheels have the branding set into them, the steering wheek, gear knob, speedo and kick plates are all branded and even the floor mats on some of the E46 M3's were branded.

Gumbo

Marlow wrote: »

Well, because there's so many Msports around and it's not easy to differ between msport and m cars, it doesn't really matter

Lots of people don't believe it's an M, when they see a real one.

/M

genuine car heads will know a proper one

Marlow

kceire wrote: »

genuine car heads will know a proper one

Yes. And that's exactly the point. Others don't need to know.

/M

Anan1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If I owned an M car I'd have as much of that M branding as possible off it.

Me too. I wonder would BMW Individual build a Motorsport car that looked standard? I remember seeing an old E12 for sale years ago that had been handbuilt at the factory with CSL running gear in a 518i shell, still kind of wish i'd bought it.