Teva, a bit of positive news hopefully

Aquos76

http://www.wlrfm.ie/tabId/269/itemId/2132/Teva-agreement-hammered-out-at-LRC.aspx

Now lads and lassies, I am prepared to leave this thread progress for a few days, however if it ends up like the previous one I will close it just as quick

Now behave:)

dayshah

Aquos76 wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.ie/tabId/269/itemId/2132/Teva-agreement-hammered-out-at-LRC.aspx

Now lads and lassies, I am prepared to leave this thread progress for a few days, however if it ends up like the previous one I will close it just as quick

Now behave:)

I'd expect it will have to be put to a vote now (with the recommendation of the committee).

urhavinalaugh

At last it looks like they are coming to there senses ,fair dues to the all concerned ,there is no point in making this a personal battle between personalities on both sides ,hats off to the mediator .

After its been a stressful time for the workers since September 09 ,on the day the people were told that the tablet plant was closing for good ,and that Teva would remain in Waterford in the Inhalation manufacture side of the business.

Now that the company have agreed to increase the number of roles that can be filled by the people entitled to move from Solid dose to Inhalations it should allow the people who are not transferring to avail of the 8 week redundancy package , which is the least they deserve after serving the company well and making it the profitable company that they are today.

Hopefully this deal will now be excepted and people can move on with there lives with or without Teva .

d_j

Well said.

Blaaface

Great news and will be voted in on the next vote. The Union did their job and got extra people to avail of this very good redundancy package and also created more jobs for people who need to stay in work.
I wonder if those people who created the hysteria and namecalling on the last thread will now see the Union were correct to look for the extra jobs as the Labour court finally got the company to sit down and compromise with the Union which is what they were after all along.

Creamsoda

Blaaface wrote: »

Great news and will be voted in on the next vote. The Union did their job and got extra people to avail of this very good redundancy package and also created more jobs for people who need to stay in work.
I wonder if those people who created the hysteria and namecalling on the last thread will now see the Union were correct to look for the extra jobs as the Labour court finally got the company to sit down and compromise with the Union which is what they were after all along.

Ah, I'm pretty sure they didnt create any extra jobs. Its just different people will be getting left go now...

Aquos76

That's my understanding of it too.

dayshah

Creamsoda wrote: »

Ah, I'm pretty sure they didnt create any extra jobs. Its just different people will be getting left go now...

True. Maybe you could say 'saved' jobs in the sense that some people who don't want to be let go wont, and others who want to go, can.

I don't work there, but I think people should bear this in mind. It is an Israeli company, and regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation over there, the mood is shifting against them. If there is some sort of boycott it could affect their ability to produce in Ireland.

Solely based on this I'm not too confident of their long term prospects, though maybe they would sell off the plant.

Blaaface

Creamsoda wrote: »

Ah, I'm pretty sure they didnt create any extra jobs. Its just different people will be getting left go now...

Ah fair enough, what i meant by creating extra jobs was the people who wanted to go through Seniority from Inhalations can go and the people who wanted to stay through Seniority can stay which is the right thing to do.

Blaaface

dayshah wrote: »

Solely based on this I'm not too confident of their long term prospects, though maybe they would sell off the plant.

It's pretty known that when the licence has expired in the Inhalations factory that they are going to shut up shop and head somewhere where they can make it cheaper, in fact they're building these factories at the moment.

dayshah

Blaaface wrote: »

It's pretty known that when the licence has expired in the Inhalations factory that they are going to shut up shop and head somewhere where they can make it cheaper, in fact they're building these factories at the moment.

Is the machinery in the inhalations plant worth much.

At the moment the union has bargaining leverage because they can disrupt the plant TEVA wants to keep going for the moment. If they decide to close everything the union will have less power and it would be hard to negotiate 8 weeks again in a few years time. Of course TEVA might consider using the plant for something else, or sell it on as a functioning factory.

Creamsoda

dayshah wrote: »

Is the machinery in the inhalations plant worth much.

At the moment the union has bargaining leverage because they can disrupt the plant TEVA wants to keep going for the moment. If they decide to close everything the union will have less power and it would be hard to negotiate 8 weeks again in a few years time. Of course TEVA might consider using the plant for something else, or sell it on as a functioning factory.

The machinery in the inhalation plant is worth a good bit. There are about 10 lines there and they all cost millions, and there is currently plans for 2 new lines to go in in the next year. I couldn't see them selling it as a functioning plant since it is their only inhalations plant owned by Teva (except the ones they are building at the moment) and it would be huge competition for them (currently able to produce approx 1.5million a week) . Hopefully the plant wont close once the licence runs out in 2014, the fact that they are still putting money into the plant might be a good sign but you never know since they still putting money into the tablet plant even after annoucing the closure of the plant. We can only hope as it would be a shame for another 400 people to loose there jobs.

Yes Boss

dayshah wrote: »

Is the machinery in the inhalations plant worth much.

At the moment the union has bargaining leverage because they can disrupt the plant TEVA wants to keep going for the moment. If they decide to close everything the union will have less power and it would be hard to negotiate 8 weeks again in a few years time. Of course TEVA might consider using the plant for something else, or sell it on as a functioning factory.

And you wonder why Waterford has been left behind

d_j

Love all the 'expert' opinions, especially from all those peeps who don't even work there!

urhavinalaugh

d_j wrote: »

Love all the 'expert' opinions, especially from all those peeps who don't even work there!

Yes ,there are so many experts here ,i wonder can they tell me is there any overtime the weekend,and whats on the Canteen menu on Monday !;)

freewheeler

Yes Boss wrote: »

And you wonder why Waterford has been left behind

The only reason that Waterford has been left behind is that we don't have the clout at the top level in government actually which led to a scandalous lack of investment in infrastructure. We had to wait until this year for a decent road to our capital city in fact!! To blame this on our unions is a very narrow minded attitude i think, as they have been merely doing what we pay them to do..to ensure that our rights are respected!

urhavinalaugh

freewheeler wrote: »

The only reason that Waterford has been left behind is that we don't have the clout at the top level in government actually which led to a scandalous lack of investment in infrastructure. We had to wait until this year for a decent road to our capital city in fact!! To blame this on our unions is a very narrow minded attitude i think, as they have been merely doing what we pay them to do..to ensure that our rights are respected!

Well said ,totally agree !

Yes Boss

freewheeler wrote: »

The only reason that Waterford has been left behind is that we don't have the clout at the top level in government actually which led to a scandalous lack of investment in infrastructure. We had to wait until this year for a decent road to our capital city in fact!! To blame this on our unions is a very narrow minded attitude i think, as they have been merely doing what we pay them to do..to ensure that our rights are respected!

"At the moment the union has bargaining leverage because they can disrupt the plant TEVA wants to keep going for the moment." (dayshah, 2010).

Is this what you pay them to do??

dayshah

I should have said extra bargaining leverage. How is bargaining meant to happen without leverage?

Yes Boss

dayshah wrote: »

I should have said extra bargaining leverage. How is bargaining meant to happen without leverage?

Contemporary human resource practices are collaborative in nature (win-win situation). The outdated conflict approach seems to be still strong in Waterford!

freewheeler

Yes Boss wrote: »

"At the moment the union has bargaining leverage because they can disrupt the plant TEVA wants to keep going for the moment." (dayshah, 2010).

Is this what you pay them to do??

As i stated..their role is protection of workers rights. Nobody here wanted to engage in industrial action, but the managements lack of respect for our elected representatives left us with no choice but to vote for industrial action if necessary..simply as a last resort!

freewheeler

Yes Boss wrote: »

Contemporary human resource practices are collaborative in nature (win-win situation). The outdated conflict approach seems to be still strong in Waterford!

From the employers side yes apparently...

justbored

This post has been deleted.

freewheeler

justbored wrote: »

freewheeler wrote: »

elected representatives


Aren't they are self elected, I never voted for any union reps!

I hope the 5 extra transfers are worth it, all the hassel it has caused!

Firstly our rep. on the union committee was elected by us yes..and secondly i'm sure the extra people who are now likely to be transferred (however many it eventually is) will think it WAS worth it as well as the other concessions which were achieved. and its also worth mentioning that it didn't actually cause any 'hassle' as i don't remember anybody having to take industrial action to achieve this!!!

Blaaface

justbored wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

It's pretty known that when the licence has expired in the Inhalations factory that they are going to shut up shop and head somewhere where they can make it cheaper, in fact they're building these factories at the moment.

What licence?? There is no licence to expire.

Bduffman

freewheeler wrote: »

justbored wrote: »

Firstly our rep. on the union committee was elected by us yes..and secondly i'm sure the extra people who are now likely to be transferred (however many it eventually is) will think it WAS worth it as well as the other concessions which were achieved. and its also worth mentioning that it didn't actually cause any 'hassle' as i don't remember anybody having to take industrial action to achieve this!!!

What about the people who are losing their jobs in Inhalations because of those transfers? The same amount of people are losing their jobs - they ae just different people. And those now osing their jobs are not the ones who wanted to go as they are the least senior & therefore won't benefit as much from the redundancy package.

And please share with us what these 'other concessions' are.

freewheeler

Bduffman wrote: »

freewheeler wrote: »

What about the people who are losing their jobs in Inhalations because of those transfers? The same amount of people are losing their jobs - they ae just different people. And those now osing their jobs are not the ones who wanted to go as they are the least senior & therefore won't benefit as much from the redundancy package.

And please share with us what these 'other concessions' are.

That is the principle of seniority..last in first out..its the fairest system and one which has always applied in these situations. When you are less senior in a job you have to accept that your position is less secure than those with longer service. As regards the other concessions i was referring to the commitment of the company to re-hire those who may have to leave if and when there are vacancies in the future..its by no means a perfect proposal but certainly better than the original.

Yes Boss

Wow...there's a turn. The original argument was that the unionised long-termers would only replace people who were in favor of going...Not nice or fair really if they are forcing others out - a little bit disingenuous!!

Bduffman

freewheeler wrote: »

That is the principle of seniority..last in first out..its the fairest system and one which has always applied in these situations. When you are less senior in a job you have to accept that your position is less secure than those with longer service.

No, the principle of seniority is fine EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL. SD & Inhalations are like chalk & cheese.

freewheeler wrote: »

As regards the other concessions i was referring to the commitment of the company to re-hire those who may have to leave if and when there are vacancies in the future..its by no means a perfect proposal but certainly better than the original.

So only ONE other concession then? And thats a BS one as it is not enforceble - the company isn't under any obligation to employ anyone who was crap at their job in the first place.
Lats face it - theres sod all diference between the original & current agreements. The union just wanted their little victory & as a result have saddled Waterford with a reputation that could ultimately affect Waterford adversely.

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

What licence?? There is no licence to expire.

The licence given by the FDA to make the dry powder inhaler in the inhalations factory in Waterford which will expire in 4 years time.

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

No, the principle of seniority is fine EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL. SD & Inhalations are like chalk & cheese.

So only ONE other concession then? And thats a BS one as it is not enforceble - the company isn't under any obligation to employ anyone who was crap at their job in the first place.
Lats face it - theres sod all diference between the original & current agreements. The union just wanted their little victory & as a result have saddled Waterford with a reputation that could ultimately affect Waterford adversely.

Hysteria Hysteria!!!!!!

You were wrong on the first vote, get over it.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

The licence given by the FDA to make the dry powder inhaler in the inhalations factory in Waterford which will expire in 4 years time.

OK - so you've just proved you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
1. There are currently no dry powder inhalers being made for the market in inhalations.
2. The FDA never had anything to do with licencing the inhalations plant for dry powder inhalers as they were never made in Waterford for the supply to the US (in case you didn't know, the FDA is only for the US).
3. Even if there was such a licence, it wouldn't just expire - a plant is routinely audited & the licence renewed each time. Inhalations has never lost an FDA licence to manufacture any inhalations products.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

Hysteria Hysteria!!!!!!

You were wrong on the first vote, get over it.

So there are other differences then? Please tell.

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

So there are other differences then? Please tell.

Try reading them. I think you'll notice them.

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on Sunday.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

Try reading them. I think you'll notice them.

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on Sunday.

You won't be hearing anything from me - I don't have a vote. So do me a favour & summarise the differences.

So do you want to come back on my other post? Do you want to tell us where you got your incorrect information from? Seeing as you are keen n spreading untruths why should anyone believe anything you have to say?

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

You won't be hearing anything from me - I don't have a vote. So do me a favour & summarise the differences.

So do you want to come back on my other post? Do you want to tell us where you got your incorrect information from? Seeing as you are keen n spreading untruths why should anyone believe anything you have to say?

Oh behave you big blouse, fair enough i got the exact info on the inhaler factory wrong but can you tell me what the 4 year expiry is because i'm pretty sure there is one.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

Oh behave you big blouse, fair enough i got the exact info on the inhaler factory wrong but can you tell me what the 4 year expiry is because i'm pretty sure there is one.

The EXACT information? You basically made people think that the inhalations plant will be closed down in 4 years time. Thats seriously misleading to say the least. All I'm asking is that you get your facts right before posting. Its peoples livelihoods at stake so theres no point in spreading unfounded rumours.

At a guess the 'licence' you are talking about is a patent in the US on ONE inhalations product. This means that other companies will be able to enter the market when that patent expires. This does not mean the product disappears - only that (maybe) the market share might reduce. In the meantime there will be other products launched with a view to replace that product.

If Inhalations closes it more likely to be caused by our (new) poor industrial relations record due to recent events than anything to do with licences & patents.

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

The EXACT information? You basically made people think that the inhalations plant will be closed down in 4 years time. Thats seriously misleading to say the least. All I'm asking is that you get your facts right before posting. Its peoples livelihoods at stake so theres no point in spreading unfounded rumours.

At a guess the 'licence' you are talking about is a patent in the US on ONE inhalations product. This means that other companies will be able to enter the market when that patent expires. This does not mean the product disappears - only that (maybe) the market share might reduce. In the meantime there will be other products launched with a view to replace that product.

If Inhalations closes it more likely to be caused by our (new) poor industrial relations record due to recent events than anything to do with licences & patents.

You honestly think TEVA will give a ****e about Union relations when they can make product cheaper somewhere else, that product is only being made in Waterford is it not and when that patent expires it's up for grabs.
TEVA will make it wherever it's cheaper and move it there. I sure as hell hope the Inhalor factory stays open in 4 years but you need to be a bit realistic and understand they could move it somewhere cheaper and it won't be down to the Union, it's just ruthless businessmen.

Oh and by the way we're on a bloody internet site, people don't take everything as Gospel just because the internet says so.

and i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, damn you internet, fooled again!

Creamsoda

Bduffman wrote: »

The EXACT information? You basically made people think that the inhalations plant will be closed down in 4 years time. Thats seriously misleading to say the least. All I'm asking is that you get your facts right before posting. Its peoples livelihoods at stake so theres no point in spreading unfounded rumours.

At a guess the 'licence' you are talking about is a patent in the US on ONE inhalations product. This means that other companies will be able to enter the market when that patent expires. This does not mean the product disappears - only that (maybe) the market share might reduce. In the meantime there will be other products launched with a view to replace that product.

If Inhalations closes it more likely to be caused by our (new) poor industrial relations record due to recent events than anything to do with licences & patents.

You fail to mention that the ONE product just so happens to be the main product made in inhalations. So it is quite a big deal especially when you take into account the inhalations plant currently being built in Miami and America being the main market for it.

Money Tree

Pray tell where are you getting the information that there is an inhalations plant being built in Miami from. This is absolute nonsense

Creamsoda

Money Tree wrote: »

Pray tell where are you getting the information that there is an inhalations plant being built in Miami from. This is absolute nonsense

Ah sure you know how it is in there, lots of bs being spread. Hard to tell what's fact and what's fiction! I stand corrected.

Blaaface

Money Tree wrote: »

Pray tell where are you getting the information that there is an inhalations plant being built in Miami from. This is absolute nonsense

They're buliding one in Isreal and i think India or Hungary.
I do know they're adding extra machines in Inhalations which is good news but they invested into tablets a year before they closed that down as well.
I just wouldn't like people to think the jobs in Inhalations are safe going forward as no doubt there is a danger that factory could close in a few years and i think everyone realises that who works on the floor. This company is pretty ruthless when it comes to closing places, they've already closed a good few around the World, it seems they're buying places so the get their name on the product that the original company (in this case IVAX) had and then moved it to places where they can make it cheaper.
I remember Managing director and the Union being worried about this when TEVA bought the place, they knew they had to get the price down where it came to making a tablet but it just couldn't compare to somewhere like India where the workers are paid peanuts.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

You honestly think TEVA will give a ****e about Union relations when they can make product cheaper somewhere else, that product is only being made in Waterford is it not and when that patent expires it's up for grabs.
TEVA will make it wherever it's cheaper and move it there. I sure as hell hope the Inhalor factory stays open in 4 years but you need to be a bit realistic and understand they could move it somewhere cheaper and it won't be down to the Union, it's just ruthless businessmen.

Oh and by the way we're on a bloody internet site, people don't take everything as Gospel just because the internet says so.

and i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, damn you internet, fooled again!

You still don't understand what a patent expiring actually means. When it expires (& that is not necessarily 2014 but could be extended) it means that other companies can make a generic version of it. It has nothing to do with Teva moving manufacture somewhere else. In theory they could do that any time patent or no patent.
If there was a toss up between Waterford & another Teva site, you can be damn sure that industrial relations could be a deciding factor - believe it or not there not that much difference in costs between sites.
And we may be on an internet site, but when posting about a sensitive subject, I believe people have a duty to get their facts right.

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

They're buliding one in Isreal and i think India or Hungary.
I do know they're adding extra machines in Inhalations which is good news but they invested into tablets a year before they closed that down as well.
I just wouldn't like people to think the jobs in Inhalations are safe going forward as no doubt there is a danger that factory could close in a few years and i think everyone realises that who works on the floor. This company is pretty ruthless when it comes to closing places, they've already closed a good few around the World, it seems they're buying places so the get their name on the product that the original company (in this case IVAX) had and then moved it to places where they can make it cheaper.
I remember Managing director and the Union being worried about this when TEVA bought the place, they knew they had to get the price down where it came to making a tablet but it just couldn't compare to somewhere like India where the workers are paid peanuts.

There is only a dry powder plant in Israel. They are NOT building an aerosol plant.
There is no inhalations plant being built anywhere else in the world.
And regarding anyone in Inhalations thinking their jobs are safe. Who would these people be exactly? Does anyone in any company think there jobs are safe at the moment?
Inhalations jobs are no safer or vulnerable than any other job in private industry. But again, it doen't help spreading unfounded rumours. Teva could close next year, in 10 years or 20 years time. You don't know any more than anyone else so unless you have facts........

freewheeler

Bduffman wrote: »

The EXACT information? You basically made people think that the inhalations plant will be closed down in 4 years time. Thats seriously misleading to say the least. All I'm asking is that you get your facts right before posting. Its peoples livelihoods at stake so theres no point in spreading unfounded rumours.

At a guess the 'licence' you are talking about is a patent in the US on ONE inhalations product. This means that other companies will be able to enter the market when that patent expires. This does not mean the product disappears - only that (maybe) the market share might reduce. In the meantime there will be other products launched with a view to replace that product.

If Inhalations closes it more likely to be caused by our (new) poor industrial relations record due to recent events than anything to do with licences & patents.

Well if 'good' industrial relations means rolling over for employers and letting them do as they wish..i'd rather have 'poor' industrial relations. Let them sod back to Israel or wherever..as everyone is starting to realise you are dealing with ruthless business people whose sole objective in life is to make more profit..good luck to them! If (as it seems) money is their God, I'm sure they'll find some other workers to exploit elsewhere..

Blaaface

Bduffman wrote: »

There is only a dry powder plant in Israel. They are NOT building an aerosol plant.
There is no inhalations plant being built anywhere else in the world.
And regarding anyone in Inhalations thinking their jobs are safe. Who would these people be exactly? Does anyone in any company think there jobs are safe at the moment?
Inhalations jobs are no safer or vulnerable than any other job in private industry. But again, it doen't help spreading unfounded rumours. Teva could close next year, in 10 years or 20 years time. You don't know any more than anyone else so unless you have facts........

Unfounded rumours? I mixed up the details but i was right on the patent (i called it a licence) expiry, being the major product in Inhalations and the fact they could go somewhere else with it after the 4 years.
I didn't see you being the big Internet warrior when there was unfounded rumours being spread on the last thread, oh right they must have been on your side.
Union got the vote, helped the senior people in Inhalations take their redundancy so in turn made space for people who wanted to stay take their places, got those who are being left go onto a list to be the first to be called back when there could be a vacancy and also got everyone the 8 weeks when the company only wanted to give 4+2.
It's over now and both sides shook on it now MOVE ON!

Bduffman

Blaaface wrote: »

Unfounded rumours? I mixed up the details but i was right on the patent (i called it a licence) expiry, being the major product in Inhalations and the fact they could go somewhere else with it after the 4 years.

A licence & a patent are two COMPLETELY different things. Teva could make that product anywhere they want right now - regardless of licence or patent. In 2014 the most that could happen is that Teva get a smaller market share for that product - resulting in lower volumes for Waterford & perhaps fewer jobs. Or perhaps it won't make any difference. We don't know. But the patent running out makes no difference to where the product is made - understand?

Blaaface wrote: »

I didn't see you being the big Internet warrior when there was unfounded rumours being spread on the last thread, oh right they must have been on your side.

Well you obviously you didn't read the full thread - I made several posts on it.

Blaaface wrote: »

Union got the vote, helped the senior people in Inhalations take their redundancy so in turn made space for people who wanted to stay take their places, got those who are being left go onto a list to be the first to be called back when there could be a vacancy and also got everyone the 8 weeks when the company only wanted to give 4+2.
It's over now and both sides shook on it now MOVE ON!

And made sure that SD people kept their jobs at the expense of Inhalations people. Question - how many of the (majority SD) committe are losing their job involuntarily? One for you to suss out.

Aquos76

Right lads,unless ye want this thread closed too, I would stop with this argument,it getting ye no where. I would prefer to leave the thread continue until the new vote has been taken but I will close it if people continue to spread unfounded rumours, its no good for anyone to be honest, its merely speculation.

Blaaface

Aquos76 wrote: »

Right lads,unless ye want this thread closed too, I would stop with this argument,it getting ye no where. I would prefer to leave the thread continue until the new vote has been taken but I will close it if people continue to spread unfounded rumours, its no good for anyone to be honest, its merely speculation.

You're right, it's actually getting pretty boring going around in circles especially when they whole thing will be sorted come Sunday.

Chief Wigam

Any update on how today's union vote went?