changing my son's name to a double barrelled surname

aoifej86

my son currently has his dad's surname. his father and i are separated and i want to change his surname to include mine also. i've checked the citizen's information website but just got confused with whether its by deed poll or not!! any info on how to proceed would really help:D

username123

Hi,
You can have a childs name changed on the birth certificate only if you are unmarried when the child is born (since 2005) and you subsequently marry and want to change to the fathers surname, this doesnt work backwards for seperation - so in this case, you wont be changing the birth cert.

Your other options are to change it by deed poll, but you will need the consent of the father and you will need to present the deed poll with the birth certificate whenever the birth certificate is required as it reflects the legal status of the name change.

You CAN just change it by common usage, so in other words you can just start using the new name and call your son by it and over time it becomes his name - if he wants to reflect that legally later on he could change it by deed poll himself.

However - before doing any of the above, ask yourself, why do you want to change it? You are seperated from his father, but the nature of the relationship between father and son has not changed so if you were happy for him to have his fathers surname before, why not now?

I just say the above because its quite possible a name change will only add extra resentment to a seperation, and that your son may decide to go back to his birth cert name later anyway.

Also - how old is the child, is this something he will be aware of and possibly attach a negative connotation to as well?

moonpurple

from citizens information

Changing the surname of a child

"The surname of a child can be changed in the Register of Births but only in certain circumstances. However, the surname of a child can also be changed by deed poll or common usage. Children aged between 14 and 17 years can execute the Deed Poll themselves but need the consent of both parents. Where a child is under the age of 14 years, one of the child's parents must execute the Deed Poll with the consent of the other parent."

you need agreement from the other parent..
you will probably witness most of the child's childhood - maybe leave
the surname as it is:)

up for anything

My daughter decided to double-barrel hers when she started secondary school. She is registered at the school with the double surname and she has asked the doctor and the library so far to change it in their records. Common usage is probably the easiest way and you don't have to ask anyone's permission to do that.

When I got married I kept my own name as well as taking his and just changed it at the bank etc. Never got asked for any official proof. Even when I applied for my passport, prior to getting married, all I had to do was fill in the new surname. Now I'm separated I am doing it all in reverse.

purplepug

just a query on this topic.. am unmarried and separated from childs father. When we registered i gave 1st name, middle name, then used my surname as a middle name, then the fathers surname..NOT double barrelled. It was pointed out by family member that my surname will not be carried down as I have 1 brother, but he will not be having any children. I really want to start using my surname, not just because we separated, but for keeping the name going also. I reckon common usage is the way to go, but has anybody any insights on to the fact that my surname is already there, but as a middle name... (hope this makes sense)

wolfpawnat

Please do not take this the wrong way OP, but are you doing this as a control thing for you or for the betterment of your child. My mother did it out of spite, and tbh, I have no idea what name is on half my stuff now.

My household bills - Her surname because there is not enough room for both on the paper.

My passport - both names as a double-barrel.

My birth cert - My fathers name.

It is a pain is the arse that parents don't seem to realise when they do these things. Please think of the convenience to your child too. I do not mean this in any harsh way please do not think that. But just as someone who has had to grow up with the awkwardness of it.

I have split from my sons father. He had his father's name then and he still does now. It is his name and at the age of 18 if he wants to change it to Philip MaGee then off with him, but I would not do it to him out of anger/resentment/annoyance of his father.

Rubberlegs

I'm not married and my first child was born in 93 when the child's surname was not put on the birth cert. She went by my surname. In '00, when our second child was born, and children's surnames were being entered on the birth cert, we decided to give no. 2 the double barrelled surname. To have the two the same we had already started to call our eldest by the double barrelled name. We asked could this be now entered on the birth cert, and were told no by the registrar, and what we were doing was essentially illegal. She said since we were not married, it was assumed the child had my surname, and it was illegal to call her by both names. I went to my local Citizen's Advice and was told that this was madness, that your name is by reputation and a child can go by any surname, and that there was no need to change the eldest by deed poll, as those were the days when the surname wasn't on the birth cert anyway.

ted1

Not a fan of double barrel names, I think its selfish. Do do.you expect their kids to have treble barrel. Or even quadruple barrel names

LegacyUser

I included the two names on the birth cert and it turns out the fathers side never uses the paternal name when addressing the child in the post anyhow. Im the only one who uses it on official documents. Am going to change it too since no one seems to be bothered about it.

You can do it by deed poll but if the dad has guardianship you will need to get him on board.

Lola92

73Cat wrote: »

I'm not married and my first child was born in 93 when the child's surname was not put on the birth cert. She went by my surname. In '00, when our second child was born, and children's surnames were being entered on the birth cert, we decided to give no. 2 the double barrelled surname. To have the two the same we had already started to call our eldest by the double barrelled name. We asked could this be now entered on the birth cert, and were told no by the registrar, and what we were doing was essentially illegal. She said since we were not married, it was assumed the child had my surname, and it was illegal to call her by both names. I went to my local Citizen's Advice and was told that this was madness, that your name is by reputation and a child can go by any surname, and that there was no need to change the eldest by deed poll, as those were the days when the surname wasn't on the birth cert anyway.

As someone born in 1992 and with a brother born in 1993, I can assure you that we both have our surname on our Birth Certificates. I can not imagine why it wouldn't be there, the whole point of a birth certificate is to register the birth and family details of the child!!!

January

Lola92 wrote: »

As someone born in 1992 and with a brother born in 1993, I can assure you that we both have our surname on our Birth Certificates. I can not imagine why it wouldn't be there, the whole point of a birth certificate is to register the birth and family details of the child!!!

I was born in 1987 and my surname is not on my birth cert?? Just my First and Middle name...

purplepug

ted1 I think that the choice is up to the individual.. I certainly am not a fan of double barrelled names but in hindsight i really wish I had gone for it with my son, so being he could be known by either one, the other, or both.
@wolfpawnat i think ur reply is very individualistic to ur own circumstance and does not really help when you state "but are you doing this as a control thing for you or for the betterment of your child" . I am not sure who this statement is aimed at but I for one disagree with it being a control "thing", It doesn't, at the end of the day, change whom the father is. Parentally, the mother gets guardianship so surely the child will feel more comfortable carrying the surname of the person that they spend the most time with, still "belonging" to the family unit as it were. I also have older twins whom lost their father when they were two, they carry his surname and are comfortable with it as they have lots of family from his side with the same name that stay in touch. My son will not have that, and so will feel somewhat different, I think. All comments welcome

Lola92

January wrote: »

I was born in 1987 and my surname is not on my birth cert?? Just my First and Middle name...

That is interesting January, I have seen my parents birth certs (late 1950s/early 60's) and their surnames are listed aswell. I didn't know that they were ever done without a surname, seems very strange to me!

Back OT, as far as I know you can just change your sons name through common usage in school, among family and friends etc.

StillWaters

I dont think there was ever a time when surname was not listed on birth cert, I have family birth certs from 1930s, 50s, 70s and 00s, just checked and they all have surnames.

Delancey

OP I have to agree with those who are questioning your motives for this name change - it could be perceived as a controlling act.

My own memory of childhood was that schoolmates with double-barrelled names got an unmerciful slagging for it , yes I know children can be cruel but its a fact of life.

metrovelvet

Delancey wrote: »

OP I have to agree with those who are questioning your motives for this name change - it could be perceived as a controlling act.

My own memory of childhood was that schoolmates with double-barrelled names got an unmerciful slagging for it , yes I know children can be cruel but its a fact of life.

Is that true Delancey? What is there to make fun of in that?

Saying that, you can rergister the child in school with one of the names and keep both on the birthcert, that way during roll call only one name gets established as general use.

Also on Irish passports you can use one name rather than what is on the birthcert.

Im not too fond of them myself personally, but how and ever....

January

metrovelvet wrote: »

Is that true Delancey? What is there to make fun of in that?

Saying that, you can rergister the child in school with one of the names and keep both on the birthcert, that way during roll call only one name gets established as general use.

Also on Irish passports you can use one name rather than what is on the birthcert.

Im not too fond of them myself personally, but how and ever....

My understanding is that if you use a hyphen to separate the names then both have to be used, but if you just put the two surnames with no hyphen you can choose which one to use...

So Adam Burke-Ryan would have to be used all the time, whereas Adam Burke Ryan, you could use either Burke or Ryan.

metrovelvet

January wrote: »

My understanding is that if you use a hyphen to separate the names then both have to be used, but if you just put the two surnames with no hyphen you can choose which one to use...

So Adam Burke-Ryan would have to be used all the time, whereas Adam Burke Ryan, you could use either Burke or Ryan.

Ah ok. All the difference a hyphen makes- wow.

I think a nice and tidy solution to this is to make one of the last names a middle name.

ash23

I think the fact that the mother wants the child to have her name isn't controlling. My daughter has my surname and as a result if I marry and have more children, they and I will probably have a double barrell surname and they can decide which to use but I don't feel comfortable with my first child having one name and the rest of the family another. That's just my personal preference.
When my ex and I discussed having children, I suggested double barrelling our childrens names (for my daughters benefit) and he refused saying child would be teased as they were both long names. I said fair enough, we'll give them my name. No way, he went ape, he didn't want his kids to have a different name to him. I suggested he take my name also. Seeing as two out of three of us had the same name. That was a no-no too.

Women are expected to give their children the fathers name, even if they keep their maiden name. Why wouldn't a woman feel as strongly about her child carrying her name as a father would.

If a woman, after separation, wants to revert to her maiden name, and wants her child to share that name, and the child has no problem with it (basing that on an older child) then so be it.
I would think it's quite normal to want your child to have the same name as you. And with so many children born outside of marriage, and so many marital breakdowns, I think it makes sense to use both. Not with a hyphen though, for the reason listed above.

metrovelvet

^ It's a hangover from pre-dna testing, a way to mark the lines of patrilinear descent.

Its also so the 'public' can identify the father.

I dont really feel that strongly about my name being used. Its used not for sentimental or ideological reasons, but practical. A few gifts at Christmas were sent back because the other surname was used on the box and it wasnt on our mailbox [this was in the US]. Deep down it doesnt sit well with me really, but what can you do.

When my parents divorced my mother wanted to have the same name as her kids so she kept her married name rather than changing ours. My aunt never took my uncles name and she doesnt mind having a different name to her kids who do take his name... so it's personal preference really.

wolfpawnat

For centuries people were addressed by their surname, it told you more about a person's lineage than anything they themselves would be able to tell you. In all census' up to about 1990, the vast majority of people (I would say about 95%) were traceable completely through their paternal lineage. In modern years it really has become a case of "who the daddy?" Fathers are being left off birth certs and without even a surname to give them recognition, in years to come people will have no idea what their heritage is.

I know this seems like a stupid reason to some, but fathers don't really have much they can bond with their child with for the first few months and since we have our hormones to help us to do so, why not give him the name. If he is good enough to get support off, he is surely good enough to give a name to. In New York people have to submit a DNA sample now if they wish to get married, to ensure they are not biologically related, if people cannot even guess if they are related, we will soon have the same problem here!

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

For centuries people were addressed by their surname, it told you more about a person's lineage than anything they themselves would be able to tell you. In all census' up to about 1990, the vast majority of people (I would say about 95%) were traceable completely through their paternal lineage. In modern years it really has become a case of "who the daddy?" Fathers are being left off birth certs and without even a surname to give them recognition, in years to come people will have no idea what their heritage is.

I know this seems like a stupid reason to some, but fathers don't really have much they can bond with their child with for the first few months and since we have our hormones to help us to do so, why not give him the name. If he is good enough to get support off, he is surely good enough to give a name to. In New York people have to submit a DNA sample now if they wish to get married, to ensure they are not biologically related, if people cannot even guess if they are related, we will soon have the same problem here!

Yes I agree with you about this 100%, ok the bonding thing doesnt apply in some cases where the dad doesnt want to bond, but aside from that, legacy, identity, who else has the same father as you [ok I know with very common names this is not going to tell you anything] how you trace your ancestors, who you are, where you come from, it labels the identity of the father.

I think its in a lot of states and has been for a long time that you have to submit blood tests before you get your marriage license and that is in a big country with a big population. With the way families are going in Ireland, with a population of 4 million I think they should do the same here or have a public registry of parentage so people know who the are realted to. May sound a little Brave New World, but that is where it's going.

ash23

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I know this seems like a stupid reason to some, but fathers don't really have much they can bond with their child with for the first few months and since we have our hormones to help us to do so, why not give him the name. If he is good enough to get support off, he is surely good enough to give a name to. In New York people have to submit a DNA sample now if they wish to get married, to ensure they are not biologically related, if people cannot even guess if they are related, we will soon have the same problem here!

Why not give both names? That's what is being discussed here. Not an either/or scenario. A lot of my daughters friends have double barrell surnames and it's easy going enough, especially as they get older. The dads family usually use their name and the mothers side use theirs. The child uses both easily. No teasing as it's far more common now and generally for school, they use one surname.

Sleepy

Double-Barrel surnames scream "Pretentious Parents" to me tbh. I'd be very surprised if this attitude doesn't prevail throughout most of the country.

I'd have liked my daughter to have my surname but since her brother has his mother's surname, it seemed something that could cause problems for them in the playground in the future so we went with the sensible option of giving Rory her mother's surname.

If she wants to take my name when she's older, great, until then it's just easier for me to be the "odd one out" in our family.

wolfpawnat

ash23 wrote: »

Why not give both names? That's what is being discussed here. Not an either/or scenario. A lot of my daughters friends have double barrell surnames and it's easy going enough, especially as they get older. The dads family usually use their name and the mothers side use theirs. The child uses both easily. No teasing as it's far more common now and generally for school, they use one surname.

Because as I said to the OP in an earlier post, it is awkward and can lead to some annoying situations when filling out forms when there is not enough space for the full name and can lead to it being shortened to one rather than both too.

Not too mention as the previous post states, it is pretentious sounding and has caused people to openly admit that they are a bit stand-offish to me at first thinking that I will be full of myself and filled with airs and graces!

ash23

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Because as I said to the OP in an earlier post, it is awkward and can lead to some annoying situations when filling out forms when there is not enough space for the full name and can lead to it being shortened to one rather than both too.

Not too mention as the previous post states, it is pretentious sounding and has caused people to openly admit that they are a bit stand-offish to me at first thinking that I will be full of myself and filled with airs and graces!

Well, it's personal preference and I think it's becoming more and more common. I personally intend to give any future kids I have, both names on the birthcert and let them use one while keeping both on official documents etc.
Unless my future husband wants to take my name

PingPing

aoifej86 wrote: »

my son currently has his dad's surname. his father and i are separated and i want to change his surname to include mine also. i've checked the citizen's information website but just got confused with whether its by deed poll or not!! any info on how to proceed would really help:D

You simply change it by common usage.
You're his mother, and you'll be putting his name down for things- so simply start referring to him by the name you want him to use. Over time, everyone will just call him by that name, and it will become accepted as his legal identity by common usage.

You don't NEED to change anything on birtcerts or deedpoll or whatever.
Ordinary usage will change his name to what you call him, and how he introduces himself.

Delancey

metrovelvet wrote: »

Is that true Delancey? What is there to make fun of in that?

Saying that, you can rergister the child in school with one of the names and keep both on the birthcert, that way during roll call only one name gets established as general use.

Also on Irish passports you can use one name rather than what is on the birthcert.

Im not too fond of them myself personally, but how and ever....

I'm probably showing my age here but when I was a schoolchild the comics we read ( yes I'm old enough to have been a comic reader ) frequently had the ' baddies ' with double barrelled names like Cedric Ponsonby-Smythe or Mariella Fortescue-Owens , these were in addition to the usual ' Basher ' Briggs and ' Bully ' Bates :rolleyes:
The perception that existed was that double barrelled names were the preserve of upper class 'toffs' who spoke with whiny accents , although we did not know the word then the fact is we saw these names as ''pretentious'' and it's a view I have not changed , I can't stand double barrelled names and would never saddle a child of mine with one.

byhookorbycrook

tough on children with dyslexia, not being smart,likewise children who find hand-writing tough.

implausible

I just want to interject here with a teacher's perspective. In secondary schools, double-barrelled names are not unusual, neither is students having a different name to their parents. However, it does 99% of the time denote that the parents are no longer together, which on one hand saves the student being asked awkward questions but on the other hand, it kind of labels them. Bullying wouldn't be an issue. When it comes to roll call, most teachers would call out the first part of the double barrel, not the whole thing.

Common usage is the way to go. When he's older, he can decide himself.

metrovelvet

deemark wrote: »

I just want to interject here with a teacher's perspective. In secondary schools, double-barrelled names are not unusual, neither is students having a different name to their parents. However, it does 99% of the time denote that the parents are no longer together, which on one hand saves the student being asked awkward questions but on the other hand, it kind of labels them. Bullying wouldn't be an issue. When it comes to roll call, most teachers would call out the first part of the double barrel, not the whole thing.

Common usage is the way to go. When he's older, he can decide himself.

I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

Delancey

metrovelvet wrote: »

I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

+ 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.

metrovelvet

Delancey wrote: »

+ 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.

My motive for doing it was practicality [raising a child alone], but I cant stand it.

Imhof Tank

deemark wrote: »

I just want to interject here with a teacher's perspective. In secondary schools, double-barrelled names are not unusual, neither is students having a different name to their parents. However, it does 99% of the time denote that the parents are no longer together, which on one hand saves the student being asked awkward questions but on the other hand, it kind of labels them. Bullying wouldn't be an issue. When it comes to roll call, most teachers would call out the first part of the double barrel, not the whole thing.

Common usage is the way to go. When he's older, he can decide himself.

This could not possibly reflect the attitudes of teachers generally, could it?

Firstly, making lazy assumptions about the parents' living situation based on the kid's surnames; Secondly, based on those lazy assumptions, making decisions on which questions should be put to which kids supposedly to avoid "awkwardness"; Thirdly, what possible reason -other than absolute sheer disinterest/ laziness - would a teacher have for not call a kid's full surname at roll time? A teacher who would do that is showing total disrespect for the pupil and parents.

Other posts equating double barrell surnames = pretentiousness - why are people so worried about about the perceptions of others?

Imhof Tank

metrovelvet wrote: »

I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

You're right, its not fair. But if uninformed people want to jump to conclusions based on a child's surname, what can you do - give in to groupthink?

Imhof Tank

Delancey wrote: »

+ 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.

Says more about those applying the labels tbh.

Jesus Wept

Double barrelled names are ridic.

ash23

Well, double barrell surnames solve the problem of blended families no?

For eg, lets say my surname is Smith and so is my daughters.

I marry Mr. Jones and change my name to Jones. And we have kids and call them Jones. Poor child Number 1 is blatantly singled out as not being Mr. Jones child.

Whereas if I call all the kids Smith Jones and use that name myself, then child Smith isn't quite so singled out as not being of that family.

At least then there won't be confusion in school as to who her siblings are.
What do you mean you're Xs sister? He's Jones, you're Smith......


If i'd done things the traditional route and gotten married, had a baby then it wouldn't have entered my mind to keep my maiden name or double barrell my kids names. But I didn't and so it'd be the best option for my situation I think.

Can't believe people would assume it meant anything. The few kids in my class with double barrell names were from happily married families where the mothers kept their maiden names. No biggie.

Sleepy

I'm Mr. Jones in that scenario ash23 (though we're not married). The best solution to the issue of naming in this situation is for Mr Jones to swallow his pride / reign in his ego and ask Ms. Smith to keep her maiden name and call their children Smith's in order for them to have the same name as their older sibling.

Your solution still leads to eldest daughter being the "odd-one-out" in the family unit. Not a fair burden to put on any child imho.

Double-barrel names, to me, indicate egotistical parents who are both too stubborn to relent on an argument over which name to give their offspring and as "a compromise" give the child a ridiculous sounding name in order for the adults to save face. Where both actively like double-barrel names and think of them as an ideal tells me that they'd fetch bouquets of water from a well

metrovelvet

I totally agree with you Sleepy although, as you know I am from the US and in the US the double barrell is reserved for the married woman.It has nothing to do with fancy families or anything like that, its a sign you are married but you dont want to give up your maiden name. Kids never do this for as long as I can remember. You take your dads name and that's it except if you are Angelina Jolie or Emilio Estevez. Its an abberration to use your mother;s name and in the state Im from, the father has rights to petition for his name to be used EXCLUSIVELY, that is how steep the tradition is.

If you remarry and your kids have different names, that is ok too. Sometimes a child as they get older might want to change the name to the step dads, and that is a big step and usually done in specific circumstances but wouldnt be the norm.

Sleepy, that is a noble gesture you did, but you do realise that your grandkids etc will also carry your girlfriend's name, and I suppose you are confident enough that you wont break up and have another child down the line with another woman.

implausible

Imhof Tank wrote: »

This could not possibly reflect the attitudes of teachers generally, could it?

Firstly, making lazy assumptions about the parents' living situation based on the kid's surnames; Secondly, based on those lazy assumptions, making decisions on which questions should be put to which kids supposedly to avoid "awkwardness"; Thirdly, what possible reason -other than absolute sheer disinterest/ laziness - would a teacher have for not call a kid's full surname at roll time? A teacher who would do that is showing total disrespect for the pupil and parents.

I did not indicate ANY attitude, I was merely offering the perspective from another point of view.

I am quite offended by your post to be honest; you're implying that teachers make lazy assumptions based on a kid's name. I, for one, make a point of being aware of any issues in a kid's background (but I'm sure someone is going to post saying that it's none of my business) and was pointing out that the double-barrelled name in my school usually denotes separated parents. Now, if making a mental note of something and checking up on it is making lazy assumptions.....

As for awkward questions, since when is taking a kid's circumstances and feelings into consideration a bad thing for a teacher to do? It's been a long time since I could use the words 'mother' or 'father' in class, even asking some of my students to get a note signed by 'a parent' is dodgy territory. I usually go with 'whoever is at home'. Have you ever tried to teach "mo chlann" (my family) in Irish in a minefield like that?

And as for your third point, you go with common usage. Many students have their second name on the roll, but never use it. Likewise, the full double-barrelled name usually doesn't appear on the student's copy or work.

Now, my school is a DEIS school with a lot of family problems e.g. half of our students would come from one parent families and other teachers may have different experiences. This is my two cents' worth; didn't expect to be attacked for it.

ash23

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm Mr. Jones in that scenario ash23 (though we're not married). The best solution to the issue of naming in this situation is for Mr Jones to swallow his pride / reign in his ego and ask Ms. Smith to keep her maiden name and call their children Smith's in order for them to have the same name as their older sibling.

Your solution still leads to eldest daughter being the "odd-one-out" in the family unit. Not a fair burden to put on any child imho.

Double-barrel names, to me, indicate egotistical parents who are both too stubborn to relent on an argument over which name to give their offspring and as "a compromise" give the child a ridiculous sounding name in order for the adults to save face. Where both actively like double-barrel names and think of them as an ideal tells me that they'd fetch bouquets of water from a well

The situation you've described has been met with resistance in the past and I'd imagine would be again.I'm not sure most men are open to the idea of taking their wifes name. I'd love for a future partner to take my name and my daughters name but I don't think there are many men who would so it's a second best case scenario.

My solution at least gives her some part of the "family" name as opposed to be totally outside the loop when it comes to the surname.

Edited to add, I know many women who's children have their maiden name and the fathers name and where the mother has remarried, they changed the name by common usage to the mothers married name and fathers name so they would have a similar tie to the "new" family. The kids were given a choice as they are older but all wanted to have the married name as that was now their mothers name and would be their siblings name too.

Imhof Tank

deemark wrote: »

I did not indicate ANY attitude, I was merely offering the perspective from another point of view.

I am quite offended by your post to be honest; you're implying that teachers make lazy assumptions based on a kid's name. I, for one, make a point of being aware of any issues in a kid's background (but I'm sure someone is going to post saying that it's none of my business) and was pointing out that the double-barrelled name in my school usually denotes separated parents. Now, if making a mental note of something and checking up on it is making lazy assumptions.....

As for awkward questions, since when is taking a kid's circumstances and feelings into consideration a bad thing for a teacher to do? It's been a long time since I could use the words 'mother' or 'father' in class, even asking some of my students to get a note signed by 'a parent' is dodgy territory. I usually go with 'whoever is at home'. Have you ever tried to teach "mo chlann" (my family) in Irish in a minefield like that?

And as for your third point, you go with common usage. Many students have their second name on the roll, but never use it. Likewise, the full double-barrelled name usually doesn't appear on the student's copy or work.

Now, my school is a DEIS school with a lot of family problems e.g. half of our students would come from one parent families and other teachers may have different experiences. This is my two cents' worth; didn't expect to be attacked for it.

I was offended - and alarmed - by your post.

You originally posted that 99% of kids with double barrelled names denotes parents are not together, and teachers base their approach to asking "awkward" questions on this premise (even your use of "awkward" suggests a stigma of some sort which I dont understand either). That is a lazy and exclusionary approach and I would have a major problem if any teacher of my kids did this.

The roll call - if the kids dont use their full names, thats different; but if they do and their parents do, are you saying that teachers think they know better and disregard this and leave out half the kid's name


If you had made clear in your earlier post that the kids in the school you teach in have "a lot of family problems" (a statement of fact presumably based on something more than the 99% generalisation in your first post) then that might have provided some context. You didnt however mention this and made various statements in relation to secondary schools as a whole.

As you say other teachers may have different experiences. I certainly hope so.

implausible

Imhof Tank wrote: »

You originally posted that 99% of kids with double barrelled names denotes parents are not together, and teachers base their approach to asking "awkward" questions on this premise (even your use of "awkward" suggests a stigma of some sort which I dont understand either). That is a lazy and exclusionary approach and I would have a major problem if any teacher of my kids did this.

The roll call - if the kids dont use their full names, thats different; but if they do and their parents do, are you saying that teachers think they know better and disregard this and leave out half the kid's name

If you had made clear in your earlier post that the kids in the school you teach in have "a lot of family problems" (a statement of fact presumably based on something more than the 99% generalisation in your first post) then that might have provided some context. You didnt however mention this and made various statements in relation to secondary schools as a whole.

As you say other teachers may have different experiences. I certainly hope so.

Well, I don't have the figures to hand funnily enough, but you'll have to take my word for it. Being a DEIS school often speaks for itself. I have been teaching there a while and care and know about my students. That is precisely why I would worry about the OP giving her child a double-barrelled name. It often denotes separated parents and for the teachers who don't have the time to look up the files of every one of the 200 students they might be teaching, it could be an indication for them to do so. This is fine if the parent wants to flag it with the school.

Let me explain "awkward" - I don't mean to imply stigma, I am referring to problems arising in class e.g. a student bursting into tears when quizzed about where his homework is and why it isn't in the house he usually lives in; a student threatening a teacher when she refused to hand back a mobile phone that had gone off in class because his dad who he hadn't seen in a year was trying to ring him or a student not writing anything for "mé féin agus mo mhuintir" (my family and I). Now, that's awkward.

My point is - it can and does label a student (in my school, as having separated parents, in other schools as being posh).

metrovelvet

deemark- Is it possible, even if your child has a double barrell formally to register them soley with ONE name, so that this doesnt happen or would you have to change the name formally too. I really do not want what you are describing to happen and I have another year before school starts to sort this out.

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

It's no more indicative of the parents marital status than when the child has the mothers maiden surname.
My daughter has my name. Anyone who knows me knows I'm single. Her having my name would indicate her father isn't on the scene, which he isn't. If she had a double barrelled name at least it would indicate he was in her life in some form.

metrovelvet

ash23 wrote: »

It's no more indicative of the parents marital status and when the child has the mothers maiden surname.
My daughter has my name. Anyone who knows me knows I'm single. Her having my name would indicate her father isn't on the scene, which he isn't. If she had a double barrelled name at least it would indicate he was in her life in some form.

Im very torn about it myself. My one does have a double barrell. And one of the barrells is MIA. I cant stand it Im tempted to even drop my name but ds has already shown a preference. Corrects people who call him by the full double barrell.

implausible

metrovelvet wrote: »

deemark- Is it possible, even if your child has a double barrell formally to register them soley with ONE name, so that this doesnt happen or would you have to change the name formally too. I really do not want what you are describing to happen and I have another year before school starts to sort this out.

There would be no need to change it formally, just put down the name you want used in school. There is room on the system we use for "known as" e.g. Bernard, known as Bernie. State exam results and official documents will probably match the birth cert, but for common usage, you could just drop the extra name. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of kids in the class with double-barrells.

Really didn't mean to cause a row, freak anyone out or make anyone in my profession sound judgemental; I was just posting what was common experience in schools I have taught in.

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

Im very torn about it myself. My one does have a double barrell. And one of the barrells is MIA. I cant stand it Im tempted to even drop my name but ds has already shown a preference. Corrects people who call him by the full double barrell.

That's personal preference though. You personally might not like double barrell. But others don't mind it. Some prefer to do it and use both until the child decides.....it's a very personal choice, much the same as the first name someone gives a child. There are names I wouldn't dream of calling my child but others love them and vice versa.

metrovelvet

ash23 wrote: »

That's personal preference though. You personally might not like double barrell. But others don't mind it. Some prefer to do it and use both until the child decides.....it's a very personal choice, much the same as the first name someone gives a child. There are names I wouldn't dream of calling my child but others love them and vice versa.

If I move back to the US I'd have to drop one, it just wouldnt work. There is no gap between official and unofficial but I'll cross that bridge I guess when I come to it.

ceegee

metrovelvet wrote: »

I totally agree with you Sleepy although, as you know I am from the US and in the US the double barrell is reserved for the married woman.It has nothing to do with fancy families or anything like that, its a sign you are married but you dont want to give up your maiden name. Kids never do this for as long as I can remember. You take your dads name and that's it except if you are Angelina Jolie or Emilio Estevez. Its an abberration to use your mother;s name and in the state Im from, the father has rights to petition for his name to be used EXCLUSIVELY, that is how steep the tradition is.

If you remarry and your kids have different names, that is ok too. Sometimes a child as they get older might want to change the name to the step dads, and that is a big step and usually done in specific circumstances but wouldnt be the norm.

Sleepy, that is a noble gesture you did, but you do realise that your grandkids etc will also carry your girlfriend's name, and I suppose you are confident enough that you wont break up and have another child down the line with another woman.

Apologies for the offtopic post but Emilio did take his dads name, while his brother uses his dads stage name. If we think double barrell names create problems imagine being in hollywood where you could have two parents with screen names added in for confusion