The DeFranco brand... damaged irreparably?

kevpants

Any one who has followed Joe DeFranco's story and watched him become the poster boy for good ole fashioned hard trianing will know who Brian Cushing is. A quick youtube search will show you him in action in Joe's gym as well as him breaking heads for USC in his college football days & the Houston Texans in the NFL where he was voted Rookie of the Year this year.

Well a few weeks back it emerged he tested positive for hCG, a protein usually found in pregnant women, cancer patients and people cycling off steroids. I wonder which one he falls under?



DeFranco basically put "Cush" forward as his prototype for what he can achieve. It's all takena big knock now. He's come out with a pretty aggressive rebutal of all the haters that smacks of someone who knows the jig is up.

It looks like his little cult could be in trouble, how many prospective NFL draft picks will now want to associate themselves with Joe if the franchises etc might see them as being at risk of testing positive in the first year? He could theoretically be costing these rookies millions in contract value by tainting them with steroid use before they even start.

Surely as a "world class coach" Joe would claim to know every single thing his athletes do so surely he was aware of Cushings steroid use.

I don't know if anyone else here cares us much about this kind of thing as I do but I thought it worthy of discussion...

d'Oracle

Wait a second....The NFL are testing for Drugs now?

What the **** is going on?

Also, from a totally neutral and uninformed point of view, given only the links posted, I would say that to come to this conclusion:

kevpants wrote: »

DeFranco basically put "Cush" forward as his prototype for what he can achieve. It's all takena big knock now. He's come out with a pretty aggressive rebutal of all the haters that smacks of someone who knows the jig is up.

would lead me to think that you are not looking at this objectively.

kevpants

d'Oracle wrote: »

You are not looking at this objectively.

How so?

itsallaboutheL

Cush has been rumoured to be on for years, he wzas tested at the combine wasn't he and came up negitive??


I still think he's produced some amazing results on Cushing regarless of what he was on!!

Michael 09

I don't know a whole lot about DeFranco's, only what I have seen on youtube of the training montages etc but it sucks to think that these guys are on roids..

The workouts they do is awesome but it's completely tainted if combined with steroid abuse IMO

cc87

I might be wrong but i have read that the before pic shown above was taken after shoulder surgery when he was out of training for a while.

Also, IMO DeFrancos is still a **** cool gym. Dont know if anyone else did but I watched the that documentary/long advertisement, "Strong" and the training they do is not easy!! Why the actions of one of his clients should impact upon his gym is just down to media sensationalism.

There also seems to be a lot of confusion among the NFLs experts as to what constitutes rasied levels of hCG in males.
Although i dont follow the sport much, there is a slight hint that they are using him as a way to look like they care about if the athletes take drugs or not.

d'Oracle

kevpants wrote: »

How so?

Careful there, you quoted part of a sentence and made it look like something different.

My thinking is that I looked at JDF's response and saw an angry guy who thinks his integrity is being called into question. Using language like "little cult" and "smacks of someone who knows the jig is up" suggests that you had already made up your mind that JDF is already involved in using.

itsallaboutheL

He's only a kid in the before pic to be fair.

Michael 09

He is montrous in the after pic...

Is it possible to get that big without steroids?

magotch07

interesting reading....wonder how it come out

dave80

he could be on something alright and just cycles before off before the combine etc and got caught doin pct, he's got some serious gyno in the first pic and its also possible he was on without his trainer (defranco) knowing he was on something?

kevpants

cc87 wrote: »

Why the actions of one of his clients should impact upon his gym is just down to media sensationalism.

Not really. DeFranco is a draft pick maker. That's his bread and butter. Look at it commercially, it doesn't matter that Joe's a cool bloke and his gym is a great place to train. DeFranco (rightly) commercially exploited Cushing's success and now he'll suffer as a result.

What you need to remember is that for DeFranco to maintain credibility he has to say he knew nothing of Cushing's use. But to be a viable coach he has to portray the image of knowing everything his athletes do.

I think this is going to be very damaging for Joe.

d'Oracle wrote: »

Careful there, you quoted part of a sentence and made it look like something different.

My thinking is that I looked at JDF's response and saw an angry guy who thinks his integrity is being called into question. Using language like "little cult" and "smacks of someone who knows the jig is up" suggests that you had already made up your mind that JDF is already involved in using.

I don't think I made it look like anything different I just didn't get what you meant.

I've been a fan of DeFranco for a long time, I'm a fan of Cushing's too. But I do believe they're all players in a big charade about strength coaches and young prodigous athletes.

I don't think DeFranco is angry, anyone who thinks he was unaware of the drug use is naive in my opinion. I think the aggressive language and bold highlighted text shows he's been backed into a corner here and is lashing out. It's pure strategy not emotion if you ask me.

Anyone who knows me knows I'm well into the acceptance stage of the "Steroids in sport" debate. I just think the way these scandals play out is fascinating if you look at them from the perspective of all the accusees being guilty and the accusers knowing it's rampant anyway.

EDIT: and by Joe's credibility I mean his ability to make money, not whether you or I subscribe to him on Youtube. He's going to be on a % of the signing on fee or contract value he gets his athlete. That figure is not going to be as high now since his athletes won't be picked as early etc.

TremblingTurnip

http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask-joe-test/48-off-topic/184-defrancos-gyms-stance-on-brian-cushings-nfl-suspension.html?start=20

I think it is worth reading Joe's reaction to the news to see it from his perspective. Whatever about Cush, I believe what Joe is saying in that him and his gym had no part to play in Cush's positive test.

kevpants

TremblingTurnip wrote: »

http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask-joe-test/48-off-topic/184-defrancos-gyms-stance-on-brian-cushings-nfl-suspension.html?start=20

I think it is worth reading Joe's reaction to the news to see it from his perspective. Whatever about Cush, I believe what Joe is saying in that him and his gym had no part to play in Cush's positive test.

I don't know how you could believe that. The guy is in charge of planning and testing every increase in performance as well as overseeing his nutrition and he just gives himself a pat on the back when a kid puts on 30lbs of lean muscle? He doesn't question it?

I don't think DeFranco could have not been aware. He's not an idiot. I've just watched Cushing on Youtube and I knew!

d'Oracle

Michael 09 wrote: »

He is montrous in the after pic...

Is it possible to get that big without steroids?

I would have thought so.
He doesn't look that big.

podge57

I don't think it will really do that much damage, because American don't care that much about steroid use in sports.

He only got a 4-match ban, and got to keep his rookie of the year award as well. For the majority of players, the potential benefits of using steroids are much greater than the punishment that comes with being caught

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would have thought so.
He doesn't look that big.

Of course it is,

What i find most poignant about that pic is the fact that he was clearly pissing sweat!! but someone will probably put that down to a side effect :pac:

d'Oracle

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Of course it is,

What i find most poignant about that pic is the fact that he was clearly pissing sweat!! but someone will probably put that down to a side effect :pac:

I'm not even sure he is that much bigger.

colman1212

Yeah it's going to be interesting to say what comes out of it.
I've watched "strong - the movie", and absolutley loved it.
I'd be gutted to think that all these lads are actually taking steroids
One of the main themes in the movie is how much joe and his dad are against the use of steroids and that fact that his dad physically threw people out of the gym who he thought were using, so it would basically go against everything they stand for if this turns out to be true.

colman1212

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm not even sure he is that much bigger.

He's a hell of a lot bigger...

Molly

podge57 wrote: »

I don't think it will really do that much damage, because American don't care that much about steroid use in sports.

He only got a 4-match ban, and got to keep his rookie of the year award as well. For the majority of players, the potential benefits of using steroids are much greater than the punishment that comes with being caught

10 years ago you would have been correct but they are actually starting to care quite a bit now and when it gets to contract negotiation time he'll more then likely suffer quite a bit over this unless he can prove he didn't need them (which is doubtful). A four match ban is equivalent to 25% of his season so it's actually a relatively large suspension and I'm not sure whether he's allowed to participate in team activities during that time either.

If JDF knew about Cushing's usage I think it was a ridiculous mistake to promote Cushing as much as he did. If he didn't notice I think he's not the coach he's made out to be (although still a ridiculously good one)

Khannie

Couple of things stand out for me....

1st pic the guy is obviously in terrible shape.
2nd pic the guy is obviously pissing sweat (and pumped)

Also, the statement by JDF on his web site reads like something I'd expect my coach to say if he felt one of his fighters had been accused of taking steroids in the wrong.

I take the point that JDF is supposed to know everything about the people he trains, but let's be honest here, that's just not possible. What goes on behind closed doors goes on behind closed doors. I'm not saying the guy was using steroids, only that if he was there's really no reason to assume his coach should know about it.

Inspector Coptoor

until his results became suspect though?

I completely agree JDF mightnt have known Cush was using, as in he wouldnt have been in the room while it was going on, but after a while, surely he would have to start questioning some of the results Cush was getting.
i.e. the 30 plus reps with 100kg, the 50 + inch box jump at about 250lbs

COH

The before shot was after surgery... anyone that has seen Bigger Faster Stronger knows how little faith you can put in before/after pics anyway!

I dont think the DeFranco brand will suffer too much from this really. Irrespective of what Cush was taking he still had to break his ass training for whatever results he got, and the use of steroids in the NFL is widely known anyway. Storm in a teacup? Plenty of NFL players have tested positive for steroids, there's more emphasis on it these days since the very public trials in the US media of various baseball players admitting to performance enhancing drugs

itsallaboutheL

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

until his results became suspect though?

I completely agree JDF mightnt have known Cush was using, as in he wouldnt have been in the room while it was going on, but after a while, surely he would have to start questioning some of the results Cush was getting.
i.e. the 30 plus reps with 100kg, the 50 + inch box jump at about 250lbs

They're not massive numbers for someone who has their training and nutrition in check.

Inspector Coptoor

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

They're not massive numbers for someone who has their training and nutrition in check.

really?
well, how come he got picked so highin the draft ater the combine if they arent massive numbers?

just curious

itsallaboutheL

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

really?
well, how come he got picked so highin the draft ater the combine if they arent massive numbers?

just curious

I'm not saying they're not hugely impressive.

Also he's fairly handy at the sport aswell :pac:

colman1212

Can't believe it's only a four game suspension for being caught using steroids!
Surely that only enthices professional athlethes in the states to use these drugs as it makes it almost worth the risk for them.
I'm sure it must be much more over here in the likes of professional rugby.

d'Oracle

colman1212 wrote: »

Can't believe it's only a four game suspension for being caught using steroids!
Surely that only enthices professional athlethes in the states to use these drugs as it makes it almost worth the risk for them.
I'm sure it must be much more over here in the likes of professional rugby.

Its football.
It is not the entirety of American Sports.

drdeadlift

kevpants wrote: »

Any one who has followed Joe DeFranco's story and watched him become the poster boy for good ole fashioned hard trianing will know who Brian Cushing is. A quick youtube search will show you him in action in Joe's gym as well as him breaking heads for USC in his college football days & the Houston Texans in the NFL where he was voted Rookie of the Year this year.

Well a few weeks back it emerged he tested positive for hCG, a protein usually found in pregnant women, cancer patients and people cycling off steroids. I wonder which one he falls under?



DeFranco basically put "Cush" forward as his prototype for what he can achieve. It's all takena big knock now. He's come out with a pretty aggressive rebutal of all the haters that smacks of someone who knows the jig is up.

It looks like his little cult could be in trouble, how many prospective NFL draft picks will now want to associate themselves with Joe if the franchises etc might see them as being at risk of testing positive in the first year? He could theoretically be costing these rookies millions in contract value by tainting them with steroid use before they even start.

Surely as a "world class coach" Joe would claim to know every single thing his athletes do so surely he was aware of Cushings steroid use.

I don't know if anyone else here cares us much about this kind of thing as I do but I thought it worthy of discussion...

So who gives a shiit,this wont effect joe at, all any publicity is good.At the NFL level a little bit of juice can help an athlete go along way.

Jesus he has poxy gyno in the first pic

kevpants

drdeadlift wrote: »

So who gives a shiit,this wont effect joe at, all any publicity is good.

If you're talking about Youtube hits or fanboys telling gim he's awesome then you're right.

However, players agents may tell them not to go near him if he's associated with steroids and that will hit him directly in his pocket.

brianthebard

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

really?
well, how come he got picked so highin the draft ater the combine if they arent massive numbers?

just curious

Agree with L. Plus those numbers are great, but what are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc guys putting up? I don't think there's a difference of more than 10 reps or 15in or basically whatever you would consider to be a massive gap between two players. What I'm badly saying is if he's using steroids then everyone else is using steroids and there is little or no damage to DeFranco's or even Cush's rep. If he is on and everyone else isn't on then there should be massive differences in strength but there aren't afaik. Also while Kev is suggesting that DeFranco is responsible for all aspects of Cushings' training and nutrition, they live at opposite ends of the states and its just not possible for him to be watching over Cushing every day, if he ever could.

Inspector Coptoor

brianthebard wrote: »

Also while Kev is suggesting that DeFranco is responsible for all aspects of Cushings' training and nutrition, they live at opposite ends of the states and its just not possible for him to be watching over Cushing every day, if he ever could.

I agree with this 100%

BUT again, wouldnt JDF think "jaysis, he's making unreal progress"

and begin to wonder about the unreal bit.

Dazd_N_Confusd

I don't think it will have too much of a negative impact, unless it turns out all the other unreal athletes who train there are on drugs too! Miles Austin, David Diehl, Deon Anderson and other NFL players are still gonna train there.

brianthebard

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I agree with this 100%

BUT again, wouldnt JDF think "jaysis, he's making unreal progress"

and begin to wonder about the unreal bit.

Lol probably,although I imagine any steroid/ped use by Cushing was for recovery and whatnot rather than straight mass gaining wouldn't you say?If that is what was happening then there might not have been out of the ordinary progress made.



(reading that post, I have no idea how I'm an English phd. fml).