"Poland castration law takes effect"

iptba

If society is going down this route, I think there needs to be good protection for people (nearly always men) charged with rape, etc. (i.e. with regard how trials are conducted) and also reasonably severe penalties for false accusations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10269055.stm

Poland castration law takes effect

Page last updated at 16:49 GMT, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 17:49 UK

A Polish law that can force some rapists and paedophiles to undergo chemical castration has come into effect.

The legislation, passed by Polish MPs last September, applies to men who rape children or immediate family members.

The procedure has been tried elsewhere, but usually on a voluntary basis.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk proposed the measures after a series of high-profile paedophilia cases last year.

Under the law, prisoners would be forced on their release to take drugs to reduce their sex drive, but courts are required to consider the opinions of psychiatrists before ordering it.

According to Polish politicians, the country now has the toughest legislation towards paedophiles in Europe.

Giselle

According to Wikipedia, it would appear to be reversible, even desireable in the case (for example) of paedophiles..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

When used by men, these drugs can reduce sex drive, compulsive sexual fantasies, and capacity for sexual arousal. Life-threatening side effects are rare,

However, it just feels barbaric. And its not without side effects.

but some users show increases in body fat and reduced bone density, which increase long-term risk of cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. They may also experience other "feminising" effects such as gynecomastia[5][6], reduced body hair,[7] and loss of muscle mass

It is, given the risk of false accusation, much more palateable than the death penalty - the most irreversible sentence of all.

The Polish law is enforceable in limited circumstances, but I have serious issues with a persons physical integrity being violated.

Snowie

Giselle wrote: »

However, it just feels barbaric. And its not without side effects.

I see where your coming from. But sexual abuse be it rape or pedophiles are just as barbaric. I personally beleave that type of behavour, is barbric, Knowing some one who was sexually abused as a child.

It cause them so much pain through out life. Takes awy part of their life.
I think rape and pedofiles get of far to lightly. They diserve that kinda, thing should happen.

I think they deserve it tho for people wrongly accused tho that would be/is a huge concern because it does happen...

Mrmoe

I think this is a good idea but it will have to be controlled properly and probably used as a final resort. Rapists and child abusers get far too lenient sentences in my view. Will it work though? Is there any evidence that by using this chemical treatment that reoffending will be reduced?

Giselle

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I see where your coming from. But sexual abuse be it rape or pedophiles are just as barbaric. I personally beleave that type of behavour, is barbric, Knowing some one who was sexually abused as a child.

It cause them so much pain through out life. Takes awy part of their life.
I think rape and pedofiles get of far to lightly. They diserve that kinda, thing should happen.

I think they deserve it tho for people wrongly accused tho that would be/is a huge concern because it does happen...

All crimes carry a risk of wrongful conviction, and I'm against this like I'm against the death penalty for that reason, and because I don't think the state should be killing/castrating people. Certainly not on 'my' behalf.

amacachi

If they're always going to be a danger they should never be let out of prison, simples.

The Corinthian

glenjamin wrote: »

They should just cut it off. Dirty bastards.

I weep for the gene pool... I assume that were you falsely accused and convicted of such a crime, you would happily sacrifice your balls to your convictions? After all, you can look forward to your name likely being cleared in the future.

As to the Polish 'castration' law itself, my understanding is that it is:

• Applicable only in cases involving repeat offenders.
• Not actually castration, but chemical suppression of sexuality - reversible if necessary, albeit with severe side effects.

As such, I do not think this is a bad idea as the chances of the innocent being subjected to permanent damage is extremely unlikely and the benefits could be significant.

Of course, this does not address female sexual offenders, but that is another debate.

enda1

glenjamin wrote: »

They should just cut it off. Dirty bastards.

And here I was thinking we were in "The Gentleman's Club"...

After Hours comments aside, the establishment of laws such as this just goes to show how socially and societally retarded Poland is. They are achieving massive economic growth at the moment, helped no end by their inclusion in the EU and the opening of their labour market - fuelled by their high levels of education.

But you can't buy class or decency.

Emme

enda1 wrote: »

And here I was thinking we were in "The Gentleman's Club"...

After Hours comments aside, the establishment of laws such as this just goes to show how socially and societally retarded Poland is. They are achieving massive economic growth at the moment, helped no end by their inclusion in the EU and the opening of their labour market - fuelled by their high levels of education.

But you can't buy class or decency.

Aren't we Irish lucky that we had industrial schools and the like to beat class and decency into us? :rolleyes:

Who are we to call the Poles socially and societally retarded when we spent the boom years drunk/drugged out of our heads and got carried away buying houses for 10 times what they were worth. Any Poles I knew in this country worked their backsides off.

Fair play to the Poles for being tough on sex offenders, it's better than covering it up and sweeping it under the carpet for decades like they do in some *cough* countries!

Greyfox

enda1 wrote: »

And here I was thinking we were in "The Gentleman's Club"... goes to show how socially and societally retarded Poland is.
But you can't buy class or decency.

Speak for youself, loads of people like me think it's a brilliant idea and I'm delighted with it, fair play to Poland for going tough of rapists, Ireland in comparison should be ashamed with how lenient it is with rapists. I'd absolutely love to see this law in Ireland

The Corinthian

enda1 wrote: »

But you can't buy class or decency.

I actually pointed out a number of reasons why such a law is not actually a bad idea; you might rebut those arguments or those made by others in favour of this law (although most, I'll admit were knee-jerk cliches), rather than responding in such a trite manner.

Emme wrote: »

Who are we to call the Poles socially and societally retarded when we spent the boom years drunk/drugged out of our heads and got carried away buying houses for 10 times what they were worth. Any Poles I knew in this country worked their backsides off.

The Poles are not terribly different to us though. They often "worked their backsides off" so that they could buy houses back in Poland, leading to a similar (although nowhere near as disastrous) price inflation. However, unlike the Irish, many Poles decided to get their morgages from banks in Switzerland, to take advantage of the much lower interest rates.

This naturally was great for them until the Zloty devalued against the Swiss Franc by about a third and then their pain began.

Fair play to the Poles for being tough on sex offenders, it's better than covering it up and sweeping it under the carpet for decades like they do in some *cough* countries!

The Roman Catholic Church in Poland has not gone unscathed where it comes to the clerical abuse scandals though and not only were these kept quiet there for many years, but given that the Church still maintains a considerable level of political influence, comparable to Ireland prior to the nineties, it is not unreasonable to assume that there is more to come in the future, while Ireland is ahead in 'cleaning house'.

All this is not to specifically put down Poland, but it is just as important to recognize faults of another country as it is to defend it.

The_Kew_Tour

I would be behind this in all countries but like few of you have said they want be 1000% sure that those found guilty are guilty, otherwise it could backfire.

But would make these sick people think twice thats for sure

The Corinthian

adrian280582 wrote: »

I would be behind this in all countries but like few of you have said they want be 1000% sure that those found guilty are guilty, otherwise it could backfire.

My understanding is that it is reversible - castration is a very misleading term.

But would make these sick people think twice thats for sure

I think most studies have shown that it is largely compulsive behavior, especially in the case of child abuse, so thinking twice or even punishment does not come into it.

The whole purpose of this is to dampen or eliminate this compulsion so that it does not reoccur, not as a deterrent. I remember reading an article on how former offenders had actually welcomed this drastic form of treatment.

El Siglo

My opinions on paedophiles are like that of an SS camp officer on Jews.;) Paedophiles never change and they're absolutely useless to society. They can't work because nobody wants to employ a paedophile, they're conditions are psychological disorders so they're rarely treated properly and in any case most of them don't think they've done wrong as it didn't feel wrong. And most of the time they show no remorse. Personally, I'd be for castration and longer prison sentences, and if the state decides to do more them then fair play. I'd rank a nematode higher than a paedophile.

iptba

El Siglo wrote: »

My opinions on paedophiles are like that of an SS camp officer on Jews.;) Paedophiles never change and they're absolutely useless to society. They can't work because nobody wants to employ a paedophile, they're conditions are psychological disorders so they're rarely treated properly and in any case most of them don't think they've done wrong as it didn't feel wrong. And most of the time they show no remorse. Personally, I'd be for castration and longer prison sentences, and if the state decides to do more them then fair play. I'd rank a nematode higher than a paedophile.

The law also covers people convicted of rape.

Emme

El Siglo wrote: »

My opinions on paedophiles are like that of an SS camp officer on Jews.;)

Ironic comparison seeing as so many Polish and Jewish people perished in Nazi concentration camps.

El Siglo wrote: »

Paedophiles never change and they're absolutely useless to society. They can't work because nobody wants to employ a paedophile, they're conditions are psychological disorders so they're rarely treated properly and in any case most of them don't think they've done wrong as it didn't feel wrong. And most of the time they show no remorse.

What has that to do with any particular ethnic group apart from the Poles who are enforcing this law? Paedophiles come from all backgrounds and walks of life.

El Siglo wrote: »

Personally, I'd be for castration and longer prison sentences, and if the state decides to do more them then fair play. I'd rank a nematode higher than a paedophile.

I agree with you there.

Galvasean

Anyone else think it's a bit like the treatment used in A Clockwork Orange? I mean, this way they arent really learning their lesson, just being made incapable of reoffending. I'm sure it would be very effective, but ethical? I'm not so sure. A bit like chopping off someone's hands to stop them from stealing again.

Ms.Odgeynist

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I see where your coming from. But sexual abuse be it rape or pedophiles are just as barbaric. I personally beleave that type of behavour, is barbric, Knowing some one who was sexually abused as a child.

It cause them so much pain through out life. Takes awy part of their life.
I think rape and pedofiles get of far to lightly. They diserve that kinda, thing should happen.

I think they deserve it tho for people wrongly accused tho that would be/is a huge concern because it does happen...

What about two thugs who kick a guy half to death on the street. Cut off their legs? Maybe inject them with a drug that paralyses them from the waist down?

This is insane

juleserino

Ms.Odgeynist wrote: »

What about two thugs who kick a guy half to death on the street. Cut off their legs? Maybe inject them with a drug that paralyses them from the waist down?

This is insane

Not insane. Tis an attempt to address an abhorrent category of crime and tackle the almost unbelievable rates of recidivism.

I note the law is designed to deal with repeat offenders.

How many chances do you feel these animals deserve?

El Siglo

Emme wrote: »

Ironic comparison seeing as so many Polish and Jewish people perished in Nazi concentration camps.

It's ironic that you don't get what means. I was merely gauging my distaste for paedophiles as much as Nazis hated Jews, I hate paedophiles on the same level.

What has that to do with any particular ethnic group apart from the Poles who are enforcing this law? Paedophiles come from all backgrounds and walks of life.

What the fuck are you talking about ethnic groups about? I was talking about how paedophiles don't see the wrong in their actions, they don't apologise, they're not remorseful, this isn't a generalisation of paedophiles it's a given and if they do show remorse, it's hollow and insincere. Also you didn't read what I said properly, paedophiles are useless to society, what possible benefit can they offer? Nothing.

I agree with you there.

Grand.

El Siglo

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone else think it's a bit like the treatment used in A Clockwork Orange? I mean, this way they arent really learning their lesson, just being made incapable of reoffending. I'm sure it would be very effective, but ethical? I'm not so sure. A bit like chopping off someone's hands to stop them from stealing again.

Well it's better than throwing them in prison for a few years only to have them coming out even more fucked up.

Ryan!

Ms.Odgeynist wrote: »

What about two thugs who kick a guy half to death on the street. Cut off their legs? Maybe inject them with a drug that paralyses them from the waist down?

This is insane

Are you really comparing rape and/or child abuse to assault?

Galvasean

El Siglo wrote: »

Well it's better than throwing them in prison for a few years only to have them coming out even more fucked up.

I'll be the first to agree that the excuses for sentencing against such criminals is laughable (well it woul be were it not so serious) there is something about altering human beings' physiology as a form of punishment that creeps meout.

El Siglo

Galvasean wrote: »

I'll be the first to agree that the excuses for sentencing against such criminals is laughable (well it woul be were it not so serious) there is something about altering human beings' physiology as a form of punishment that creeps meout.

Well we're already altering their mental state which is nearly or equally as bad, depending on how much importance you place on somebody's mental state, does it really matter if the state alters their physiology? Also, considering the damage, in physical terms that a paedophile inflicts on a victim (victims contracting STDs etc...), I think it might be fair to say that the punishment fits the crime.

juleserino

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone else think it's a bit like the treatment used in A Clockwork Orange? I mean, this way they arent really learning their lesson, just being made incapable of reoffending. I'm sure it would be very effective, but ethical? I'm not so sure. A bit like chopping off someone's hands to stop them from stealing again.

Thats some hairy ****in concept your peddling there fella...ethical considerations for rapists and paedophiles:mad: Yes Galvasean, lets all hold hands and consider the plight of recidivist sexual predators

Have you any similar, ethical like considerations for the future victims of these recidivists?

Galvasean

juleserino wrote: »

Thats some hairy ****in concept your peddling there fella...ethical considerations for rapists and paedophiles:mad: Yes Galvasean, lets all hold hands and consider the plight of recidivist sexual predators

Have you any similar, ethical like considerations for the future victims of these recidivists?

How you got all that from what I said I will never know...

juleserino

Galvasean wrote: »

How you got all that from what I said I will never know...

I dunno, just got to thinking that if someone re-offends in Poland they consciously run the risk of losing the right to their physical integrity. Their choice. The victim was given no choice about what was taken from them. Their physical integrity was simply taken, by the perpetrator, by choice.

Don't really understand why society should bear the risk of a sexual predator re-offending on the basis of an ethical consideration and/or a concern for their wellbeing.

Can't see that they deserve any such consideration.

amacachi

Galvasean wrote: »

How you got all that from what I said I will never know...

Don't bother, seriously.

Jarndyce

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone else think it's a bit like the treatment used in A Clockwork Orange? I mean, this way they arent really learning their lesson, just being made incapable of reoffending. I'm sure it would be very effective, but ethical? I'm not so sure. A bit like chopping off someone's hands to stop them from stealing again.

You presume that they are capable of 'learning their lesson'. In addition, I would be in favour of chopping off hands to prevent future theft.

opinion guy

I have one question

Is there any proof that chemically castrating a paedophile or a rapist prevents them from reoccurring ?

Jarndyce

opinion guy wrote: »

I have one question

Is there any proof that chemically castrating a paedophile or a rapist prevents them from reoccurring ?

It's pretty self-evident, don't you think?