HC groups announced

dromdrom

POOL 1: Cardiff Blues, Northampton Saints, Edinburgh, Castres Olympique

POOL 2: Leinster, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Saracens, Racing Metro 92

POOL 3: Munster, Ospreys, London Irish, RC Toulon

POOL 4: Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque, Bath Rugby, Ulster, Aironi Rugby

POOL 5: Leicester Tigers, Scarlets, Perpignan, Benetton Treviso

POOL 6: Toulouse, London Wasps, Glasgow Warriors, Newport Gwent Dragons

Ouch!

Ian_K

:eek: Ulster have the best chance of the three irish sides. Leinsters group is crazy hard

profitius

Thought the draw didn't take place yet? Seriously though are they the groups?

LFC5Times

Munster have a tough group as well seeing as they are not as strong as they used to be.

Raedwald

Not the best group draws for the big two Irish teams.

Ulster will surely fancy their chances of getting a best runner up spot from their group. Think Biarritz will have far too much for the teams in that group.

Tim Robbins

Raedwald wrote: »

Not the best group draws for the big two Irish teams.

Ulster will surely fancy their chances of getting a best runner up spot from their group. Think Biarritz will have far too much for the teams in that group.

It will depend in the French play their A or B teams. Clermont or Toulon could be bonus point home games.

Hippo

Horrific for Leinster. Not much better for Munster.

d'Oracle

That is a tough, tough group.

castie

Biarritz with the handy group again but I did say in the other thread.

"So they get one english team one welsh and one italian"

Just got Ulster instead of the Welsh team.

Its grand, we have Joe Schmidt now, he'll tell us all their secrets

molloyjh

Yikes, 2 tough groups there for Leinster and Munster. Particularly Leinster. Should make for an interesting season anyway. Those Clermont fans are more than welcome back in the RDS after the QF. Great bunch. Just as long as Brock leaves his kicking boots behind him again.

buck65

Delighted to see Toulon, L Irish coming to Thomond. Big games.

anonymous_joe

Ah shíte.

Tim Robbins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ah shíte.

Some good info on Racing Metro here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_M%C3%A9tro_92_Paris#Modern_eccentricity

JustinDee

castie wrote: »

Biarritz with the handy group again but I did say in the other thread.

"So they get one english team one welsh and one italian"
Just got Ulster instead of the Welsh team.

Was the draw not performed live? You're seeing conspiracy when all in fact you saw was live bingo.

bleg

Nah it's always behind closed doors.

JustinDee

bleg wrote: »

Nah it's always behind closed doors.

So what was live today then?
I watched it live last year.

BoarHunter

there will be some great matches at the autumn ! The finale will be Ospreys vs Toulouse - The Ospreys to win it on home ground.

If you add some money i can give you all tjkhe quarter finals

anonymous_joe

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Some good info on Racing Metro here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_M%C3%A9tro_92_Paris#Modern_eccentricity

Aye. They've history of a certain kind. :pac:

Depends on who they sign between now and next season really.

BoarHunter

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Aye. They've history of a certain kind. :pac:

Depends on who they sign between now and next season really.

watch the french Café ki have posted about this : amongst others Juan Martin Hernandez, Benjamin Fall and Durand ( perpignan SH ) will make their way to Racing Metro next year. this will be a very tough team to beat.

with Clermont now french Champions i would think they dedicate the HCup more focus so it will be very tough for Leinster i reckon

ScrubsfanChris

This is the 3rd thread about H-Cup pools today.

Go here:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055919295&page=4

Or mabey the Mods can can add these two together.

Poster King

Anyone know when they announce the actual fixtures? Want to book Clerment trip.

Draw was live on the ERC website this morning. I missed it myself.
Tough group alright for Leinster, but if you want to win the HC then you have to beat good teams.

anonymous_joe

BoarHunter wrote: »

watch the french Café ki have posted about this : amongst others Juan Martin Hernandez, Benjamin Fall and Durand ( perpignan SH ) will make their way to Racing Metro next year. this will be a very tough team to beat.

with Clermont now french Champions i would think they dedicate the HCup more focus so it will be very tough for Leinster i reckon

Hmmm. Balls.

profitius

JustinDee wrote: »

Was the draw not performed live? You're seeing conspiracy when all in fact you saw was live bingo.

It doesn't matter how it took place. Using the laws of mathematics tells us that the chances of Biarritz getting all these easy draws is slim... but its still happening.

ScrubsfanChris

YOUR GUIDE TO THE HEINEKEN CUP DRAW

The draw for the 2010/11 Heineken Cup took place on Tuesday morning - here's our guide to who'll be playing who in the continent's premier competition next season.


POOL 1

Cardiff Blues, Northampton Saints, Edinburgh, Castres Olympique

Cardiff Blues and Northampton Saints have walked away with the Amlin Challenge Cup in the past two seasons.
The Blues have never met Edinburgh or Castres Olympique before in the Heineken Cup, but know all about Saints.
The Anglo-Welsh rivals have met four times in the past, with Saints winning three of the matches. Saints have also played Edinburgh four times in Europe, winning two and losing two
They have never met Castres before, although the French club have played Edinburgh twice before. The Scottish side did the double over them in 2008/09.


POOL 2

Leinster, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Saracens, Racing-Metro 92

Leinster met newly crowned French champions ASM Clermont Auvergne in the quarter-finals last season, pipping them in Dublin to reach the last four. The new Leinster coach Joe Schmidt will face up to his former club, Clermont, having been their backs coach for the past two years.
Leinster have a 100% record against Clermont from three meetings, but have never met Saracens or Heineken Cup new boys Racing-Metro.
Clermont beat Racing-Metro in the first round of play-off matches in the Top 14 last season and have only ever met Saracens in the Challenge Cup.


POOL 3

Munster, Ospreys, London Irish, RC Toulon

Two times champions Munster will be eyeing a fourth final at the Millennium Stadium having lost to Leicester Tigers there in 2002 and beaten Biarritz Olympique and Toulouse in 2006 and 2008. They met the newly crowned Magners League Grand Final winners the Ospreys in the quarter-finals in 2009 and also did the double over them in 2004/05.
Munster have never met London Irish, who were drawn with Leinster last season, or Toulon before in the tournament. The Ospreys and Toulon will also be new opposition for London Irish.


POOL 4

Biarritz Olympique, Bath, Ulster, Aironi

2010 Heineken Cup runners-up Biarritz Olympique know all about Bath and Ulster having met them before – they lost both Pool games to Bath in 2001/02, but beat them in the 2006 semi-final, and have three wins from four Pool clashes with Ulster – but will be meeting the new Italian franchise, Aironi, for the first time.
Ulster met Bath for the first time in last season’s Pools and did the double over them.


POOL 5

Leicester Tigers, Scarlets, Perpignan, Benetton Treviso

Double champions Leicester Tigers have the edge over the Scarlets having beaten them four times in five previous Heineken Cup clashes, two of them in the semi-finals. The Scarlets have also lost three of their four meetings with Perpignan and lost once in two outings against Benetton Treviso.
Tigers also have very recent knowledge of both Perpignan and Benetton Treviso. The three teams were in the same Pool in 2008/09, when the Tigers went on to reach their fifth final.
Perpignan won their home battle in 2008, but are 3-1 down overall to Tigers. It is the third season in a row that Benetton Treviso have been drawn in a Pool with Perpignan.
They famously beat them 9-8 in the opening round last season, but are trailing 7-1 overall.


POOL 6

Toulouse, London Wasps, Glasgow Warriors, Newport Gwent Dragons

Reigning champions Toulouse will have to do something they have never done before in 110 Heineken Cup matches if they are to stay on track in their defence of the title – beat London Wasps in London.
The teams have met four times before in the tournament with Wasps winning 77-17 at Loftus Road in 1996, 27-20 at Twickenham in the 2004 final and then drawing 15-15 at Adams Park in 2005.
Toulouse did the double over the Dragons in 2008/09, when they also found themselves in the same Pool as Glasgow Warriors. The Warriors won 33-26 in France in their last meeting, but are 3-1 down overall.
It will be the third season in a row that the Dragons and Warriors, who are Magners League rivals domestically, have clashed in the Heineken Cup. It is an even split between the two teams at present, with each winning two games at home.
Neither the Dragons nor warriors have met London Wasps before.

Source: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/5019_15804.php

Ciaran-Irl

Just realised....

What must Joe Schmidt be thinking!?

He must be delighted to have to play Clermont IMMEDIATELY after leaving them.

outwest

he will not be happy with going to clermont,

clermont to top the group, they focus on hcup from the start

JustinDee

profitius wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it took place. Using the laws of mathematics tells us that the chances of Biarritz getting all these easy draws is slim... but its still happening.

The laws of mathematics don't decree that 2+2=5 however. The only relevance it has is that it is either a song by Radiohead or an example of contorted logical supposition.

greendom

Pool 2 is a monster of a group - whoever comes 2nd deserves a quarter final place, even if 2nd place teams in other groups have better records

profitius

JustinDee wrote: »

The laws of mathematics don't decree that 2+2=5 however. The only relevance it has is that it is either a song by Radiohead or an example of contorted logical supposition.

No but it can tell us the chances of things happening.

[Jackass]

Very tough groups.

Leinster have probably the best team in Europe (give or take, with Toulouse), one of the best English sides around, and Toulon #2, also T14 play-off placed.

That's the second most rediculos group i've ever seen. The funniest / worse being Leicester, Toulouse, Leinster & Edinburgh. Good old Leinster luck in the draws. :mad:

Munster v Leinster Amlin Cup final? :pac:

I think both can make it out, but my god it'll be tough!! If Munster get their act together their group isn't actually THAT bad, but I think if Munster continue to decline, this could be the end of the Munster era if they go out in the groups.

Ulster should fancy winning that group, but even at that, they can go for a best runner up spot. This will be Ulster's break through season imo.

Can't wait! You gotta beat the best teams to win it, and every single year Leinster play at least 2 or 3 ofr the very best teams in Europe, so nothing is different.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

No but it can tell us the chances of things happening.

I have no particular interest in doing the calculations, but considering the permutations of the possible teams they can draw I don't imagine the chances of them constantly getting "easy" groups are astronomically low. Besides, as long as they're not zero there is still a chance that it could happen perfectly legitimately...

Podge_irl

Also, ****

andrewdcs

That's a very unlucky draw for Leinster. Munsters isn't much beyond it.
Vicarage road is a 2hr slog across town, but at least I'll get one 'home away from home' match in.

Toulouse picking up glasgow, newport and a wasps team in serious decline is pure cake walk.... Roll on to Toulouse crashing out before the playoffs:D!

anonymous_joe

profitius wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it took place. Using the laws of mathematics tells us that the chances of Biarritz getting all these easy draws is slim... but its still happening.

It does happen though. A slim chance means that it can happen after all. Sure look how often Stade get Ulster, etc.

andrewdcs wrote: »

That's a very unlucky draw for Leinster. Munsters isn't much beyond it.
Vicarage road is a 2hr slog across town, but at least I'll get one 'home away from home' match in.

Toulouse picking up glasgow, newport and a wasps team in serious decline is pure cake walk.... Roll on to Toulouse crashing out before the playoffs:D!

I'd argue we've an easier group than Munster. Neither is exactly easy though.

I love the Heineken Cup actually. Fcuk me, but there's some rugby to be played now.

Sangre

Very tough group for Leinster and Munster. The Leinster/Clermont QF this year should add some extra spice to the group next year. Both teams will know that they can beat the other. Home wins and no losing BP will be vital in this group.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd argue we've an easier group than Munster.

I wouldn't!

Clearly the two toughest groups though. It will be a real test of both teams and give us a great indication of where they stand.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

I wouldn't!

Clearly the two toughest groups though. It will be a real test of both teams and give us a great indication of where they stand.

Heh, it's much of a muchness either way. Going to be fun.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Heh, it's much of a muchness either way. Going to be fun.

Considering how they approached the Amlin, I can only assume Toulon will take the HEC very seriously. If Racing don't then it will certainly mean Munster have the tougher group but it's hard to know what they'll do.

Whatever about the difficulty, we're in for some amazing games.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

Considering how they approached the Amlin, I can only assume Toulon will take the HEC very seriously. If Racing don't then it will certainly mean Munster have the tougher group but it's hard to know what they'll do.

Whatever about the difficulty, we're in for some amazing games.

I'd have Toulon as favourites for that group in my mind.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd have Toulon as favourites for that group in my mind.

I have a feeling the order of the games could become quite important. For all my reservations about Munster next season I feel uneasy betting against them in such a scenario. I can't see a second qualifier from the group (or from ours) so that would mean Munster missing out on the knock-out stages - unthinkable surely?

sock puppet

profitius wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it took place. Using the laws of mathematics tells us that the chances of Biarritz getting all these easy draws is slim... but its still happening.

This is the third year in a row Glasgow and the Dragons have been drawn together. These things happen.

buck65

Munster will win home and away to Irish, beat Toulon and Ospreys at home and pick up losing BPs away, probably enough to clinch qualification.
Leinster will beat Clermont at home lose away with no BP, beat Racing at home lose away with BP, and same with Saracens. #
Both to qualify. Ulster as usual will make a balls of an easy group and not qualify.

jv2000

buck65 wrote: »

Munster will win home and away to Irish, beat Toulon and Ospreys at home and pick up losing BPs away, probably enough to clinch qualification.
Leinster will beat Clermont at home lose away with no BP, beat Racing at home lose away with BP, and same with Saracens. #
Both to qualify. Ulster as usual will make a balls of an easy group and not qualify.

I really like this prediction and it seems the most likely way either Leinster or Munster will Qualify. But with such quality in both groups I would expect teams to drop points all over the place and losing BPs will be crucial. Surely there wont be a best runner up spot in these groups.

But honestly I believe Munster are good enough to beat Ospreys and Irish home and away. Leinster should have the ability to do the same for saracens and Metro. The Clermont/Toulon games could be huge.

Despite the disgust I felt at seeing the draw I have now accepted it somewhat. Munster always seem to get a tough group. Can't wait for all these great matched ahead.

Redsock

buck65 wrote: »

Munster will win home and away to Irish, beat Toulon and Ospreys at home and pick up losing BPs away, probably enough to clinch qualification.
Leinster will beat Clermont at home lose away with no BP, beat Racing at home lose away with BP, and same with Saracens. #
Both to qualify. Ulster as usual will make a balls of an easy group and not qualify.

You don't rate Ulster Rugby do you?

thomond2006

Biarritz (Pool 4) and Toulouse (Pool 6) should definitely go through.

I can see both Leicester and Perpignan qualifying from Pool 5, although USAP's Heineken Cup record is very poor. Scarlets and Treviso could be five pointers for the Tigers and the Catalans.

Pool 1 is a really tough group to call. Saints and the Blues would be favourites though. All the teams will take points off one another. I'd go for Saints.

Pool 3 is a lottery. As Toomy said, LI have gone awol and are the weakest of the sides. Ospreys may have finally come good and with Hook and Biggar have big game players. Toulon will be really strong. They will have a backrow of Lobbe, Smith and Van Niekerk next season. :eek: Don't think there could be better combination in club rugby. Gotta believe that Munster will do it though.

Like Pools 1 & 3, hard to call Pool 2. Leinster will bank on their home record to get through. After finally winning the Bouclier, the pressure is off Clermont a bit, which will make them more dangerous. I can see them both qualifying.

So I'd go for:

Pool 1: Northampton
Pool 2: Leinster, Clermont
Pool 3: Munster
Pool 4: Biarritz
Pool 5: Leicester, Perpignan
Pool 6: Toulouse

buck65

Redsock wrote: »

You don't rate Ulster Rugby do you?

No I don't tbh. Fantastic squad on paper and tough to beat in Ravenhill but are the epitome of underachievement. Keeping Connacht out of the HCup was the height of their ambitions this year. A top 4 place in the ML should have been well within their grasp considering the amount of players Leinster, Munster, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Ospreys contribute to their national teams.
Massive potential and I know their are issues there with management but Ulster have seriously underperformed for the past couple of seasons. Would love to see them take Biarritz but can't see it.

anonymous_joe

Redsock wrote: »

You don't rate Ulster Rugby do you?

Few if any do outside of Ravenhill.

Ulster have a squad that on paper is, as Buck pointed out, almost the equal of Munster and Leinster. They've also got similar fiscal power. However, they've underachieved spectacularly in recent seasons.

06/07 was the last ML win for Ulster wasn't it?

BoarHunter

buck65 wrote: »

Munster will win home and away to Irish, beat Toulon and Ospreys at home and pick up losing BPs away, probably enough to clinch qualification.
Leinster will beat Clermont at home lose away with no BP, beat Racing at home lose away with BP, and same with Saracens. #
Both to qualify. Ulster as usual will make a balls of an easy group and not qualify.

I really fancy a Clermont win in Dublin but they might lose in Paris. I think you are understimating Racing in that group. The players are really Hcup experienced and will have the depht next season to give it 80 minutes. For me it is Clermont and 50/50 between Racing and Leinster. This will be up to bonus points i reckon.
Munster should make it if they keep Thomond as a fortress as they always do, however they won't do what they did to Perpignan at home every year . If they start the competition at home they might be up for a shoker as they almost did against Montauban . Munster take longer and longer to warm up in the competition as they get older.

Edit : i forgot Ospreys were in Munster group .... I really fancy them to go all the way to the millenium ... Tough for both big Irish provinces.

This will always be tough groups when Munster and Leinster draw a french team ....

redmca2

Some trivial stats over the history of the HC:

On 18 occasions (out of 23) Italian teams have been in a pool where the winner got a home QF



On 11 occasions (out of 23) Italian teams have been in a pool where the runner-up qualified.

Biarritz are blessed .... again. Who the **** are Aironi. The only website I can find for them is on Facebook !!

David900

Fairly sure they are only forming this summer, bringing together a number of clubs to enter the Magners.