Ireland vs. New Zealand June 12. **Mod Warning, Read OP**

Podge_irl

Mod Warning;
Folks, watch the player abuse and keep things civil. I've got no problems with people legitimately criticising a players performance today, just do it in an intelligent way and from a rugby perspective. No personalised attacks. Also don't abuse each other. This is the one and only warning I'm issuing on this thread.

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 - John Hayes (Buff/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)*
17 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
18 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)*
19 - Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)


You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

Podge_irl

1. Ben Franks *
2. Keven Mealamu (71)
3. Owen Franks (9)
4. Brad Thorn (37)
5. Anthony Boric (13)
6. Jerome Kaino (25)
7. Richie McCaw – captain (80)
8. Kieran Read (16)
9. Jimmy Cowan (33)
10. Daniel Carter (66)
11. Josevata Rokocoko (60)
12. Benson Stanley *
13. Conrad Smith (33)
14. Cory Jane (12)
15. Israel Dagg *


Reserves:

16. Aled de Malmanche (2)
17. Neemia Tialata (41)
18. Sam Whitelock *
19. Victor Vito *
20. Piri Weepu (35)
21. Aaron Cruden *
22. Zac Guildford (2)

Arrogance

One of the worst decisions I have ever seen made by Irish management in all my time watching rugby. O'Gara is going to be ran over by the All Blacks as we see every time we play them.

I am in complete shock at Kidney's selection, between this and leaving Fionn Carr at home I really dont know anymore. Our biggest chance to beat New Zealand has just gone down the toilet.

Podge_irl

Arrogance wrote: »

One of the worst decisions I have ever seen made by Irish management in all my time watching rugby. O'Gara is going to be ran over by the All Blacks as we see every time we play them.

I'm unhappy with the O'Gara decision, though can at least see some rationalization for it if Sexton isn't 100% fit. Selecting Hayes is just taking the piss though.

Arrogance

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm unhappy with the O'Gara decision, though can at least see some rationalization for it if Sexton isn't 100% fit. Selecting Hayes is just taking the piss though.

There hasnt been any reports stating Sexton isn't fully fit. One would assume he is considering hes been taking part in full contact training. O'Gara will be steam rolled again and again. I've lost count of the amount of times O'Gara missing tackles against NZ has swung the game in their favour, they love facing him.

The less said about the Hayes decision the better. Kidney definitely has every intention of having Hayes start the World Cup. Scary prospect.

Teg Veece

Arrogance wrote: »

There hasnt been any reports stating Sexton isn't fully fit.

According to the RTE website, he missed last week's match against the Baa-Baa's because of an infection.
I guess that just counted against him.

I think that's the weakest looking Irish team I've seen in awhile but with the current injuries, there aren't a whole lot of options, tbh.

dromdrom

Podge_irl wrote: »

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 - John Hayes (Buff/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)*
17 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
18 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)*
19 - Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)


You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

Don't really see the alternative, Sexton suffering from infection and Buckley getting his arse handed to him last week again, pretty much what would have been expected TBH.

subfreq

Congrats to Muldoon. Totally deserved. What a great day for him.

Feel for Sexton and the coaches TBH. He gets injuries at the worst time preventing him from playing the key games in Ireland's development.

outwest

im a fan of tol, but stringer, sexton wallace would give bowe and bod speedy ball to attack the lineout,

buckley there instear of court is a bad call, i wonder how many chances does he need.

Stev_o

We have a slight chance in this game, operation get Carter. He's been out of form for the past 2 years and doesn't look arsed at the moment, all attention with ball carrying should be focused on him and hope that he just bottles it. However if we don't give him enough attention no doubt he ll produce 10 mins of pure brilliance and we ll be gone.

We are screwed if we kick just beyond screwed.

If Cruden comes on god love us.

danthefan

Really disappointed in the team selection.

dromdrom

outwest wrote: »

im a fan of tol, but stringer, sexton wallace would give bowe and bod speedy ball to attack the lineout,

buckley there instear of court is a bad call, i wonder how many chances does he need.

Court a LH primarily, Buckley is a TH primarily who can cover (and I use that word loosely) LH, seeing as how Hayes is most likely to be replaced Buckley was the right call

vkid

the RTE report says

"Although passed fit earlier in the week, the Leinster man has lost out to the more experienced O'Gara for the match in New Plymouth and has had to settle for a spot on the bench."

Think Sextons perfromance in the Magners final also went against him so don't think its all down to the infection last week. Thought he was poor in that game.
Will be interesting to see how this team pans out. Not as pessimistic about it as most people here. We're up against it anyway regardless of Sexton/O'Gara..

cson

Stev_o wrote: »

We have a slight chance in this game, operation get Carter. He's been out of form for the past 2 years and doesn't look arsed at the moment, all attention with ball carrying should be focused on him and hope that he just bottles it. However if we don't give him enough attention no doubt he ll produce 10 mins of pure brilliance and we ll be gone.

We are screwed if we kick just beyond screwed.

If Cruden comes on god love us.

Out of form for 2 years? His performance v France last Autumn was one of the best OH performances I've ever seen.

dromdrom

cson wrote: »

Out of form for 2 years? His performance v France last Autumn was one of the best OH performances I've ever seen.

That one was an outlier, has been pretty poor for crusaders and middling for the all blacks as well, France game does show what he is capable of though.

buck65

Interesting selection there at 10. Who do ye think is the better outhalf? :eek::D;)

That front row is going to get creamed.

Podge_irl

dromdrom wrote: »

Buckley getting his arse handed to him last week again

Good thing Hayes is so solid in the scrum then eh?

Hayes shouldn't even be starting for Munster at this point, never mind Ireland. I don't care who the alternative is, be it Buckley, Court or Ross. Hayes is bloody useless at this point and I find it staggering that Kidney doesn't seem to notice that.

outwest

i think ogara is there because of the new fullback for new zealand, i exoect alot of ball kicked and trimble and bowe chasing it down.

hayes is too old for the wc, it a joke, at this stage, he is only getting worse, its a shame, he was a great survent to irish rugby

Funkstard

Had a dream last night Ireland won 0-7 with a try in the dying moments, so fear not folks! Have to put a tenner on after that.

funky penguin

Looking at the positives......

Congratulations to Muldoon and Cronin!

jayteecork

Funkstard wrote: »

Had a dream last night Ireland won 0-7 with a try in the dying moments, so fear not folks! Have to put a tenner on after that.

Tenner on Ireland to win or a tenner on Ireland to win 7-0? You think Ireland will keep NZ scoreless at home?

Don't see what the problem with this team is though.

Kidney obviously wants to beat the kiwis and has named his strongest, most experienced team. No point sticking Buckley or Fionn Carr or whoever in there in the cauldron.

That's the best back line I've seen in a while(obviously better with Luke in there instead of Trimble, or I'd even have Geordan in there. You're always sailing very close to the wind with Trimble).

Not sure about Ostrich O'Driscoll in the second row but what do i know?

smurphy29

It's the weakest Irish team we've seen in a while, and while most of it is forced by injuries, I don't think Kidney has covered himself in glory either.

Obviously, Ferris and O'Connell are huge misses, and to make matters worse they are compounded by Cullen and Locky also being out. Nuldoon and MOD are as honest as the day is long, but they are hardly international class.

But the selection isn't great - the back row lacks balance; it's basically three number 8's. It's crying out for Jennings, who has shown much better form than Wally over the last few months. I would have gone with Sexton at 10, purely because we have never beaten the ABs with Rog at 10, and need to give their defence more to think about, but accept that it's a marginal call - both hav been patchy enough of late. As for John Hayes... this is becoming a nightmare. For him too I suspect. People are crying out for Buckle and Ross, but neither is putting much of a case together for selction. We'l know more about Ross by next year's Six Nations I suspect.

NZ by 25.

Foxtrol

Picking your strongest team is fine if they have a high likelihood of beating NZ but, barring a massive amount of luck, these lads wont. This is the time to blood a few "younger" players, when there is no home crowd pressure while also giving the older, more battle weary players a rest. Nearly every bit of new players getting experience at this stage is solely down to injury.

Kidney is actually making EOS team selections look practically radical.

buck65

jayteecork wrote: »

Not sure about Ostrich O'Driscoll in the second row but what do i know?

Obviously not alot if you're from Cork and don't know about Micko in the 2nd row.

outwest

lockey wasnt exactlry international class against italy, muldoon had a great game against a stronger team then italy, i think muldoon will be solid, cullen is a huge loss, i would of loved to see doc cullen partnership,

muldoon is a 6 not an 8, with all the injuries wallace had to start,

ross wont get into the team until he start getting gametime,

Foxtrol

buck65 wrote: »

Obviously not alot if you're from Cork and don't know about Micko in the 2nd row.

MOD being selected hardly inspires confidence that it is a team to turn over NZ at home. He is an example of mediocrity at its best.

d'Oracle

outwest wrote: »

i think ogara is there because of the new fullback for new zealand, i exoect alot of ball kicked and trimble and bowe chasing it down.

Sounds sensible, except if Dagg takes well to the pressure, it could be a bad day. He has a lot of potential and loves to run the ball.

Lot of power in the AB front row.
I am worried about this.

Chaos

anyone know what channel its on? cant see anything on entertainment...or else its on sky sports

B0X

Well these choices are dire to be fair. I'm starting to really dislike Kidney.

EDIT: Happy for the Connacht lads though.

d'Oracle

Chaos wrote: »

anyone know what channel its on? cant see anything on entertainment...or else its on sky sports

Sky Sports 1 Coverage at 8am.

dromdrom

B0X wrote: »

Well these choices are dire to be fair. I'm starting to really dislike Kidney.

EDIT: Happy for the Connacht lads though.

If I remember correctly a lot of this sort of crap was spouted after the Argentina game in his first November Tests, guy has been a top class coach for a long time and has achieved far far more than any other Irish Coach, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he has a plan.

Ciaran-Irl

Like a lot of people, I think Sexton should have started this game. But I did expect this somewhat...

I'm delighted Paddy Wallace isn't starting. Stanley would have destroyed him. He just isn't physical enough for a Nonu or a Stanley or a Jamie Roberts.

B0X

dromdrom wrote: »

If I remember correctly a lot of this sort of crap was spouted after the Argentina game in his first November Tests, guy has been a top class coach for a long time and has achieved far far more than any other Irish Coach, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he has a plan.

Things like continually starting Hayes is just plain wrong. I don't care if people think he's a top class coach that is just the wrong decision. The WC is next year, we only have this tour and the autumn tour to give guys like Buckley and court the experience they need against the best of the southern hemisphere. He is sqaundering these chances. (Unless he has somehow replaced the bull with an actual bull and is hoping nobody notices)

The O'Gara point i'm less concerned about because that can deffinitely be put down to a gameplan where both outhalves will be used, but again, Sexton needs all the experience he can get, not just the last 20 mins of a match.

Foxtrol

dromdrom wrote: »

If I remember correctly a lot of this sort of crap was spouted after the Argentina game in his first November Tests, guy has been a top class coach for a long time and has achieved far far more than any other Irish Coach, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he has a plan.

Yes but Kidney is also renowned for being extremely conservative and brought very very little youth through at Munster during his time there. Its not like club rugby where you can sign in a NIQ player when an amazing youth prospect doesnt force your hand with selection. If he keeps going at this rate the Irish team is going to end up in the same state as Munster where a good chunk of the team is getting to retirement age and there no youngsters behind who have been blooded to take their place.

danthefan

Seems there's a clear intention to bring Hayes to the RWC. He's no longer able to play international rugby as it is, what's he going to be like in 12 months time.

Wheeker

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I'm delighted Paddy Wallace isn't starting. Stanley would have destroyed him. He just isn't physical enough for a Nonu or a Stanley or a Jamie Roberts.

:rolleyes: You obviously didn't watch the NZ v Irl match in June 2008 then? Paddy totally had the measure of Nonu in that match & scored a try himself. D'Arcy isn't THAT much better defensively. I thought Paddy played pretty well v BaaBaa's last Fri & I'm disappointed to see he's not even on the bench for this Sat.

EDIT: Nonu is injured & not even playing on Sat anyhow!

anonymous_joe

So is anyone actually looking forward to this?

I've got absolutely no confidence in the side we're sending down. Injuries, etc, have just fcuked us.

corny

Its going to be embarrassing come scrum time for us. I'd rather see Buckley go backwards, at least it might occur to him the game actually goes on beyond the set piece. Hayes at this stage, no joking matter, will be starting at the WC next year.

No great optimism but its certainly not the best NZ side we've ever faced. Pleased for Sean Cronin and Muldoon too.

d'Oracle

anonymous_joe wrote: »

So is anyone actually looking forward to this?

I've got absolutely no confidence in the side we're sending down. Injuries, etc, have just fcuked us.

I wouldn't go that far.
But we are sort of relying on Debutant & Inexperienced AB players not stepping up to the plate.

maxxie

hopefully the Irish play like they did in 2006!!

Jemo

Rog was the right call on form, Sexton's been up and down since injury, not bossing the play as he had before it. It's unfortunate, I'm a big fan of his and hope he comes back well next season once he puts on some of the weight he has lost and confidence. Rog will come off at about the 50 60 min mark unless injuries dictate sexton must come on elsewhere, which I hope doesn't happen as neither he nor rog are viable 3/4 cover.

Hayes will be our rwc prop unless ross causes some miracles next season at Leinster, hayes doesn't need more experience though and adds very little. We could win it... but it would have to be an enormous upset, we are outclassed in so many key areas other than number 8 where Heaslip is probably the best player on the park on current form.

I'm looking forward to Trimble, he attacks differently to all other irish players and tends to make breaks and break tackles he has no right to. Carter will pressurise him heavily with the boot though, I hope Kidney sends him kearney and bowe out with a license to cut loose, its our best hope of winning (or losing by a large margin but we'll ignore that!).

It all comes down to what the coach wants, does Kidney want a tight match with a respectable losing margin or a real chance to take down the all blacks. If its the latter we need to be as aggressive as possible in every facet of play. France have shown time and time again that the only way to beat the abs is to run at them, keeping it tight and kicking gets you nowhere, because whilst you are kicking 3 pointers, they will be running it back at you and scoring 7 each time.

handsomecake

Stev_o wrote: »

We have a slight chance in this game, operation get Carter. He's been out of form for the past 2 years and doesn't look arsed at the moment, all attention with ball carrying should be focused on him and hope that he just bottles it. However if we don't give him enough attention no doubt he ll produce 10 mins of pure brilliance and we ll be gone.

We are screwed if we kick just beyond screwed.

If Cruden comes on god love us.

he will be awsome this week.mark my words

outwest

darcey is the only disapointing call i can see,

wallace is the better attacker, that is were ireland can target new zealand, bowe, kearney need to attack that backline

dromdrom

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yes but Kidney is also renowned for being extremely conservative and brought very very little youth through at Munster during his time there. Its not like club rugby where you can sign in a NIQ player when an amazing youth prospect doesnt force your hand with selection. If he keeps going at this rate the Irish team is going to end up in the same state as Munster where a good chunk of the team is getting to retirement age and there no youngsters behind who have been blooded to take their place.

Gas really, guy wins two H Cups and he gets slammed as conservative (anyone remember introducing Hurley for the Gloucester Game?) , just happens to be the first coach in Irish history to win a major trophy (he has won 3 now 2 H Cups and a Grand Slam) various calls may be questioned (i.e I think player x should start instead of player y) but to come out and vilify him as some posters on this forum have is ridiculous, I would love to dig up some of the old threads after we won the Grand Slam to pull out some of the quotes that were made then, I can well imagine that some of the people who are having a go now were declaring his genius back then, as Babs Keating says there's only a week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday

Arrogance

dromdrom wrote: »

Gas really, guy wins two H Cups and he gets slammed as conservative (anyone remember introducing Hurley for the Gloucester Game?) , just happens to be the first coach in Irish history to win a major trophy (he has won 3 now 2 H Cups and a Grand Slam) various calls may be questioned (i.e I think player x should start instead of player y) but to come out and vilify him as some posters on this forum have is ridiculous, I would love to dig up some of the old threads after we won the Grand Slam to pull out some of the quotes that were made then, I can well imagine that some of the people who are having a go now were declaring his genius back then, as Babs Keating says there's only a week between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday

Just on last years GS win. I was happy but at the same time I was aware that (1) It was the weakest 6N in years (2) We were EXTREMELY fortunate to win it and (3) the rugby we played was dire and would of had us destroyed by any SH team in good form.

Gracelessly Tom

Anyone know if this is available to view online on Sat? Will be out of the country but (despite the hiding we could be about to get) would like to catch it if at all possible.

If we can somehow hold parity (or close to) in the scrums we'll keep the score down and it will be a tight finish, less than 10 points in it. If the scrum goes backwards we're in for a pasting!

Historically we don't fare too badly in these tour games in NZ.

jayteecork

You'll find it on www.justin.tv

Just do a search right before kickoff.

Podge_irl

Jemo wrote: »

Rog was the right call on form, Sexton's been up and down since injury

Whereas ROG's for the most part has just been down. I think, and hope, the decision was based upon fitness concerns as Sexton is clearly the better player at this point.

Hayes will be our rwc prop

No he won't. He simply can't be and I refuse to believe it's a possibility. At his current rate of decline he'd be the worst bloody player in the RWC. It's horrible to see and not what the man deserves.

Gracelessly Tom

jayteecork wrote: »

You'll find it on www.justin.tv

Just do a search right before kickoff.

Many thanks, will do!

Jemo

Arrogance wrote: »

Just on last years GS win. I was happy but at the same time I was aware that (1) It was the weakest 6N in years (2) We were EXTREMELY fortunate to win it and (3) the rugby we played was dire and would of had us destroyed by any SH team in good form.

True enough, the standard of rugby was dire, but then Kidneys never been a flashy coach, and Gaffneys really a first phase backs coach, I'm glad to see some fresh backline coaching arriving in leinster next season, its badly needed. In Ireland in rob, luke, bowe, murphy, earls, trimble, carr, we arguably have some of the finest attacking outside backs in world rugby but don't use them in that way. The entire leinster back division will learn a lot next year which could have a positive effect on the national side's style of play.

We quite simply need to learn to coordinate the backs further than first phase ball, France and the big 3 all do it and it sets them apart from the rest. We have the players, they just need to get used to playhing that way and then impose their will on Kidney. The pack is evolving, Healy, cronin, o'brien, ferris, heaslip, have all come in and upped the pace, they all have the skills to play an attacking aggressive style of rugby and in my opinion the time has come to use that. Rolling with the punches and relying on moves off line outs will only get us so far...

Hippo

outwest wrote: »

darcey is the only disapointing call i can see,

wallace is the better attacker,

You are joking, aren't you?