Series 5, Episode 10 - "Vincent and the Doctor"

pixelburp

I guess for the next 2 weeks we get the filler / monster-of-the-week episodes until the big finale.
However, I didn't know that Bill friggin' Nighy was in it. Damnit he should have been the 11th doctor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RsrDV38jh8

Doctor DooM

I suppose drawing a parelell between Bill Nighy and John Cleese's role in City of Death would probably be a little fanboy-ey?

Daemos

Oh my God, he was in the season trailer as well and I didn't recognise him, awesome stuff

Doctor DooM wrote:

I suppose drawing a parelell between Bill Nighy and John Cleese's role in City of Death would probably be a little fanboy-ey?

Since City of Death is one of the few classic episodes I've seen, I'm going to say no

K-9

Just read a review from the Blogtor Who site and he is saying it is very good.

No real spoilers but don't read if you don't want any info on it:

Goghtor Who

BBC Wales trailer:

Goghtor Who

Pittens

This episode is getting rave reviews in previews.


spoiler-free preview from den-of-geek

K-9

Pittens wrote: »

This episode is getting rave reviews in previews.


spoiler-free preview from den-of-geek

Ah, that was it, what annoyed me about Cold Blood but I couldn't quite put my finger on it:

Gone are the awkward, fey, foppish eccentricities of the Doctor-Diplomat seen in parts of Cold Blood.

I'd be glad of a change of tact in this one.

Stark

I'm still put off by all the verbal fellatio when it comes to Van Gogh. I cringe every time a character says "greatest artist who ever lived". Reminds me of a bad episode of "Glee". At least they had the excuse of having to brown nose in order to avoid royalties.

Raphael

What time is it on this week?

pixelburp

Raphael wrote: »

What time is it on this week?

18.40, or 6.40 pm if you will

Nice reviews, I forgot that Richard Curtis was behind this story so it should be interesting (even if I'm of the opinion that he's vastly overrated - Blackadder was more Ben Elton's success than Curtis').

Raphael

Cool, thanks. Have an alarm set on my phone for it, else I'll just play Red Dead Redemption straight through it.

monkeyfudge

The trailer last week made this episode look horrible.

But I can't see Richard Curtis handing in a dud script. There's a huge amount of scope to play around with in an Episode about VanGogh (Although I can't help but notice they're going with the common mispronunciation of his name.)

Hope the atrocious CGI that we glimpsed in the trailer doesn't let things down too much.

Killer_banana

Surprised to see the name of this season's finale. Didn't think we'd be seeing

River again so soon.

This ep looks okay. I just wish they would have one set anywhere but Earth. This season's been fantastic but I would have liked to see way more non-earth adventures. After all the TARDIS can travel in space as well as time. /rant

iUseVi

I approve of this episode. I actually cried during the end bit and I'm a dude. Good stuff.

Killer_banana

Well that was better than expected. A few hiccups here and there and felt like there was something missing but very, very good for a Monster of the week in my opinion. Some pretty adult themes, was very surprised by how deep into them they went.

Next week looks interesting.

I'm such an art nerd...part of me lit up with joy recognising all those shots of the Museé d'Orsay.

Very good I thought!

Pittens

I reckon that one will improve with more than one viewing. The monster was almost incidental.

Ginny

I really really liked it,Vincent and his story was handled very nicely, the episode was very adult in parts in its tone, and was a nice change.

BuffyBot

Good episode and I agree the monster was absolutely incidental. The end of it was a little much

Bringing VanGogh into the TARDIS and giving him a spin

didn't work for me at all.

sceptre

That was marvellous. A few small blips but the in-jokes were excellently done.

The one part that niggled me was the obviously (for anyone who's visited) fake Orsay inside gallery, including paintings that just aren't there (notably Wheatfield with Crows, which is in Amsterdam, it's one of my favourite paintings and Starry Night, which is in MOMA-NY). Then again that's just me being particular, pointless going to all that trouble to recreate a real location and there are certain paintings that people would expect to see. AT least outside the little gallery, they used the real Gare d'Orsay, which was worth something (picky I am about real locations where people would be familiar with them).

Very nicely done episode, manages to exhibit Van Gogh's mania and depression in what at 45 minutes is a very short timeframe with monsters to be dealt with as well. As Pittens said, the monster was almost incidental to the plot, though it managed to easily exhibit Van Gogh's ability to see things as others didn't.

Got an oops fear towards the end when

they brought him to the Orsay to see his stuff, I was half-afraid that they'd somehow make him a happy camper after that and imply that his depression would have been cured knowing future reverence but happily they didn't

.

The

monster in the window of the church at Auvers

reminded me of an old Sapphire and Steel episode as soon as I saw it. Might just be coincidental, doesn't matter either way.

Nice that even though there isn't really anything there on the ongoing season arc, they made reference to Rory and what the Doctor can remember that she can't. Little implication there that there's sadness for her even though she doesn't know why, which tied into the theme of the episode as well.

I felt teary, thumbs-up. Definitely worth a second viewing.

iguana

sceptre wrote: »

The one part that niggled me was the obviously (for anyone who's visited) fake Orsay inside gallery, including paintings that just aren't there (notably Wheatfield with Crows, which is in Amsterdam, it's one of my favourite paintings and Starry Night, which is in MOMA-NY).

But this was clearly a special exhibition which Amy had been very eager to go to. Museums and galleries often loan each other certain items for particular exhibitions. I saw many of Edvard Munch's paintings in the Art Institute in Chicago even though they are normally in Oslo. (And this must have been a very special exhibition in order for someone with access to all of time and space to make the trip to.)

Harmsden

Dull episode with no ideas and little to remember.

There's touching. Then there's groping. That was groping.

The Recliner

I did like the reference to Amy and Vincent having the same accent and the concurrent nod to them all speaking English even though that wouldn't be likely

And the reference to only using the screwdriver for screws in future and the nod to the previous doctors again

As filler episodes and monster of the week go it wasn't bad at all

iguana

Harmsden wrote: »

There's touching. Then there's groping. That was groping.

That sums up just about everything by Richard Curtis this century.

Daemos

The Recliner wrote: »

and the concurrent nod to them all speaking English even though that wouldn't be likely

That's because of the translation circuit in the Tardis

iUseVi

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

That's because of the translation circuit in the Tardis

Yesh and this is why they had Dutch accents also.

The Recliner

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

That's because of the translation circuit in the Tardis

iUseVi wrote: »

Yesh and this is why they had Dutch accents also.

Aye I just thought it was a nice touch for newcomers who might question such things

sceptre

iguana wrote: »

(And this must have been a very special exhibition in order for someone with access to all of time and space to make the trip to.)

Ha, fair point, perfectly logical as well.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I enjoyed it a lot and I didn't think I would because I thought it'd just be dull filler, though while it was filler, it was fantastic filler...

Pittens

Curtis does ladle the sentimentality on. Like Love Actually.
And clearly Van Gogh is his favourite painter ( I dont think him the best ever).

I liked that Amy thought that Van Gogh would survive and paint more, that that would be the new timeline. There was no reason why he couldn't - Van Gogh's death, or life was not set in stone in that timey wimey wibbly wobbly way - but he didnt.

Very adult on depression. Part of me feels they could have lost the monster, and just visited Van Gogh as a vacation, the rest of the story would have been largely the same.

Daemos

Pittens wrote: »

Very adult on depression. Part of me feels they could have lost the monster, and just visited Van Gogh as a vacation, the rest of the story would have been largely the same.

True but having said that it is a story that's trying to reach a large target audience, so that the more mature fans can appreciate the seriousness of the depression storyline, while younger audiences will like the invisible monster that you can only see of you look at it with a mirror.

pixelburp

Massively sentimental episode, but still very enjoyable all the same. Sure it didn't advanced any arc or reveal anything amazing, but if you have to have the 1-shot filler episodes, it's good that they're at least diverting and entertaining.

It handled van Gogh's depression quite well & decided not to ignore or pretend it didn't exist. Nor did the episode patronise by implying it could have been cured by a quick visit to the future; it was a tearful ending all told & props should go to the guy who played Vincent. His self-awareness of his insanity was a bit heavy-handed, but that wasn't his fault of course.

The monster itself was quite well done - the CGI was ok to be fair, perhaps the Venice episode was just an aberration - and although was probably surplus to requirements, at least it wasn't your standard "take over the world" affair. A blind monster that no one could see eh, how hellish.

As for the usuals; we only got little hints of the Doctor / Amy arc, so I guess that just confirms the episode's "filler" status, but clearly we're not done with Rory just yet.

PS. more props must go to the SFX of the night sky turning to a painting, that was really nicely done.

PPS. if this episode left one mark on me, it was the maintained desire to see Bill Nighy as the Doctor. All those little facial ticks and mannerisms, he practically was the Doctor in those scenes.

PPPS. Next week's looks VERY low-budget hehehe.

Harmsden

I was initially surprised at the positive feedback this episode received, but reviewing it now I can accept it. The monster isn't incidental to the plot. It reflects the episode's main focus, one man's struggle with an invisible monster: depression.

The BBC production, as usual with period stuff, was faultless. It was great. The CG was on par with American SF and the night sky morphing into starry night was lovely.

However 'Blink' set the bar for filler episodes. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling no matter the scheduling and the budget.

The scenes dealing with Van Gogh's passion and mania feel shoehorned in, as though someone is ticking off a checklist with half an ass. The episode feels unfinished. It feels like Curtis had two ideas: jizz over Van Gogh and have Van Gogh fight a big monster. We got the jizz. We got the monster but there was very little flesh to be found. What exactly is the chemistry between Van Gogh and Amy? Red hair? Why was the monster left behind? What did it actually eat? Why could Van Gogh see it when no one else could? On one level it's a manifestation of his mental illness, but on another level it's a vague scavenging alien that feeds on... I'm sorry, what exactly did it feed on again?

I could go on, but I won't. In the right mood, maybe I'd enjoy having someone fumble around my emotions, furiously stabbing for my g-spot. I wasn't in the right mood. I wanted a meal first. I wanted meat.

Banjo Fella

I absolutely loved this episode! I thought it dealt with depression and friendship in a very sensitive way, and was by far one of the most emotionally adventurous episodes of the revived series. Fantastic stuff.

I loved the actor playing Van Gogh, very well suited to the role! The scene where the night sky transformed into The Starry Night was brilliantly realised, and I chuckled at the nod to Bedroom in Arles when the Doctor wakes Vincent. The implication that Vincent's synaesthesia allowed him to see the beast was great, too, tied in nicely with the allegory for depression.

monkeyfudge

I enjoyed it a lot as well.

Excellent performance from Tony Curran. I also liked how the BBC put up a depression help line number at the end as well.

The definitely could have done something more interesting with the monster though. I was hoping for something along the lines of the Id monster from Forbidden Planet.

iguana

pixelburp wrote: »

It handled van Gogh's depression quite well & decided not to ignore or pretend it didn't exist. Nor did the episode patronise by implying it could have been cured by a quick visit to the future;

Richard Curtis' sister, who had severe depression, committed suicide recently. So I'm sure in many ways the episode was about her and what she suffered.

Fysh

Had it been less drowned by sentimentality, I would have enjoyed this more, because the bones of a very good standalone episode were there. The incessant "ZOMG! BEST ARTIST EVARR!" stuff (particularly at the beginning with the Doctor and Amy mugging at each other) was frustrating. It made it feel a bit too much like an "educational" show, rather than just a well-written and entertaining show that also educates along the way.

Amy's horror at the idea that her new pal would still end up killing himself, and her belief that one trip into the future to see that future masses would appreciate his work, seemed overly simplistic and contrived. Especially given the way that death and high-bodycount adventures are usually handled in the show.

There were some very nice moments too - Matt Smith's Doctor continuing to be slightly weird and generally unconcerned with being cool (except when it comes to bow ties), the ridiculous gadget he pulled out so that he could see the monster (which was basically a box with a couple of lights and a wingmirror attached - excellent!), and the sequence at the end showing the transition from "reality" to the night sky painting.

exaisle

Compart and contrast....around the 23/24 minute mark....I cant help thinking that for the scenes shot outside the church, she may, in fact, have gone commando....her legs look suspiciously...uhm...white...

bigar

Not the worst episode but I would have like it they would have thought of something else than a monster from a Chinese New Year parade.
Just hated they kept on saying van Goff.

Bill Nighy, althogh a small part, was just amazing in this and not just because he pronounced van Gogh almost as a native Dutchman

Pittens

Just hated they kept on saying van Goff.

Actually they were pronouncing it properly in Dutch. Bablefish error.

monkeyfudge

Pittens wrote: »

Actually they were pronouncing it properly in Dutch. Bablefish error.

Bill Nighy was the only one to really pronounce it right though.

K-9

iguana wrote: »

Richard Curtis' sister, who had severe depression, committed suicide recently. So I'm sure in many ways the episode was about her and what she suffered.

Ah, that makes sense. I thought originally bringing him back to 2010 was typical Curtis OTT sentimentality but, then I wondered, why would he? Maybe a nod to family and friends wondering about "what if I did this?"

The scene was a bit OTT but was saved by excellent acting all round. Thought this episode had the best acting so far in the series.

Overall, barring the Weeping Angels, the best episode so far.

Actually worried about the CGI budget when they had an invisible monster! Thought "are things that bad in the Beeb?"

Only reference to the future episodes I seen was the burning door on the Tardis. Don't think I missed anything else.

Oh and Amy just gets better. She was even more delightful in this episode and looked even more stunning than I thought possible in the Sunflower scene. I believed her thinking everything would change when they went back. She's still very innocent and childlike which makes sense, after all, Rory is forgotten.

monkeyfudge

K-9 wrote: »

Only reference to the future episodes I seen was the burning door on the Tardis. Don't think I missed anything else.

That was the posters that had been plastered all over the box having being burned off in the vortex.

doctorwhogirl

I loved this episode. It has to be said. Thought it handled the subject matter skillfully and all actors were superb.

Great episode for me as a Whovian art lover with a soft spot for Bill Nighy!

I loves James Corden but he is just everywhere! Looks like it could either be ok, or another "Fear Her" style episode. *shudder* I'll reserve judgement.

Nearly fcuked the remote at the tv when it came to the Adventure Game ad. Damn BBC. I could totally go on an unnecessary republican rant over it....

Jessibelle

I liked it alot. I really didn't want to, as most shows deal with depression in a really mawkish awkward way, and while this did tip towards it at times, overall I felt it dealt with it quite sensitively. Also as a somewhat personal aside, a friend who lost a family member to suicide from depression was watching this with me, and she was gratified that time wasn't changed to let Vincent live, aside form historical accuracy, she felt it showed that sometimes unfortunately there's nothing that can be done to prevent suicide from happening.
Also loved the scene where the sky transformed into the Starry Night. That was fantastic! Also, Bill Nighy for Dr!!!

K-9

monkeyfudge wrote: »

That was the posters that had been plastered all over the box having being burned off in the vortex.

Doh! Thought it was linked to the sign in last weeks episode.

pixelburp

Jessibelle wrote: »

Also, Bill Nighy for Dr!!!

Face it people, Matt Smith has been stellar 'n all, but the above needs to happen. I propose travelling back in time, kidnapping Stephen Moffat, taking his place and hiring Nighy. Who's with me? And who can do a good Scotish accent?

K-9

Jessibelle wrote: »

I liked it alot. I really didn't want to, as most shows deal with depression in a really mawkish awkward way, and while this did tip towards it at times, overall I felt it dealt with it quite sensitively. Also as a somewhat personal aside, a friend who lost a family member to suicide from depression was watching this with me, and she was gratified that time wasn't changed to let Vincent live, aside form historical accuracy, she felt it showed that sometimes unfortunately there's nothing that can be done to prevent suicide from happening.
Also loved the scene where the sky transformed into the Starry Night. That was fantastic! Also, Bill Nighy for Dr!!!

Exactly and if his sister died because of it recently, makes sense. The episode was quite dark over all and probably needed a lift. The idea of bringing him back to 2010 was brilliant and the acting was brilliantly handled and I include Matt and Karen in that.

As for Nighy as the Dr. I just can't see him. Brilliant actor, but guilty of over acting every so often, including this episode. Matt handled this one perfectly, played it perfectly at the right times.

monkeyfudge

Well Romana got to regenerate into someone she liked the look of. So I guess it's possible for the Docotor to take the form of someone who he admired, such as Dr. Black in this episode.

Daemos

Proof (as if you needed any) that Bill Nighy is a living legend that can do anything

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v4od_bill-nighy-christmas-is-all-around_music

K-9

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Proof (as if you needed any) that Bill Nighy is a living legend that can do anything

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v4od_bill-nighy-christmas-is-all-around_music

Hamming it up is not acting! He hammed this one up, though very well.

K-9

Gorgeous outfits but Robert Palmer still wins!