National Firearms Awareness Day

Sparks

NATIONAL FIREARMS LICENSING AWARENESS DAY

Wednesday 16th June 2010.

Issued by Sgt. Paul Green, Garda Firearms Policy Unit

As you are all aware, the final extended one year firearm certificates will expire on 30th June 2010. As of today 2nd June 2010 we have over 130,000 new applications on the system, the majority of which have been fully processed and certificates issued. We have also had significant numbers of unwanted, old or obsolete firearms handed in to Garda Stations for destruction. However, this still leaves large numbers of firearms owners who have still not yet re applied for their new 3 year firearm certificates.

With this in mind, the Commissioner has now designated Wednesday 16th June 2010 as ‘National Firearms Awareness Day'. On this date every Garda Station in the country will have personnel available between the hours of 10am and 6pm to assist firearm owners in filling out application form FCA1 and offer general assistance re the new firearms processes. The objective of this initiative is to ensure that as many people as possible will avail of this opportunity to get their applications in prior to 30th June 2010.

A national newspaper campaign aimed at publicising the day will be launched in the next week or so and national as well as local radio stations will also be utilised. Additionally, The Garda Press and Public Relations Office will assist in briefing the media prior to the awareness day. The Commissioner is anxious that every firearm owner is afforded every opportunity to have their application processed. With only 4 weeks remaining of the extension period, this is obviously the final push re encouraging outstanding applications.

A comprehensive audit of all firearm owners will be conducted in early July by every Superintendent in their respective districts. Failure to apply for their new 3 year firearm certificates by 30th June 2010 may result in firearm owners finding themselves in possession of unlicensed firearms and could result in their firearms being seized or may even render them liable to prosecution. This is obviously a situation we do not want to see happen. I would ask all of the representatives of the various shooting organisations to assist in promoting the 16th June and making it a success. For further assistance or information you can contact myself or Tim here at Firearms Policy.

Paul Greene Sgt.
Firearms Policy Unit.
01.6661911 or 01.6661916

Rovi

Good to see the Gardai being proactive on this before a bunch of people end up unlicensed when their extensions run out.

Is this something we can print off and put on display in our clubs and ranges, or are the FPU looking after that?

I suspect that the 'clubs and ranges' people aren't really the target of this, and that it'll be the newspaper and radio campaign that'll reach the intended audience: the 'single gun' people who got the longest extensions, most of whom aren't members of clubs or ranges and aren't part of the sport shooting community, but are people who happen to have a gun for farm pest control and the like.

Tackleberrywho

Rovi wrote: »

Good to see the Gardai being proactive on this before a bunch of people end up unlicensed when their extensions run out.

Is this something we can print off and put on display in our clubs and ranges, or are the FPU looking after that?

I suspect that the 'clubs and ranges' people aren't really the target of this, and that it'll be the newspaper and radio campaign that'll reach the intended audience: the 'single gun' people who got the longest extensions, most of whom aren't members of clubs or ranges and aren't part of the sport shooting community, but are people who happen to have a gun for farm pest control and the like.

My younger briother being one of them.
He being a true Farmer never uses D'internet Laser or credit cards.

His is up in July I believe. He just shoots the odd pest around the farm with it, and sometimes breaks a clay or two.

It will be interesting if local radio stations run it, most farmers listen to it when out in the massey

Mr Mole

Maybe the Garda Firearms Policy Unit will be also kind enough to run an Awareness Day in respect of sporting firearms for their Supers and Chiefs.:D

Sparks

I think that's their entire raison d'etre...

Mr Mole

Not exactly Sparks! The Garda initiative is aimed at the public.
My comment, cynical as it was, refers to the lack of knowledge regarding sporting firearms that is apparent among the Garda members who have the statutary responsibility for the granting of firearms certificates for sporting purposes. (Cynical again, as its really nothing to smile about)!

Sparks

The firearms awareness day is aimed at the general public; but we've been told the FPU's goal is to ensure consistent policy and levels of knowledge amongst Supers and Chief Supers...

jwshooter

how many sergeants and supers will be aware of it ? .

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

My younger briother being one of them.
He being a true Farmer never uses D'internet Laser or credit cards.

His is up in July I believe.

Id check that extension again Tack. AFAIK i got the longest extention and its up in June. Also see 1st post;

the final extended one year firearm certificates will expire on 30th June 2010

.

Double check for his sake.

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

Id check that extension again Tack. AFAIK i got the longest extention and its up in June. Also see 1st post;

.

Double check for his sake.

I'll say it to him this evening.
i know my fathers shot and rifle were renewed last month

Mr Mole

Sparks, are you being cynical now?:D

ayapatrick

Dusty87 wrote: »

Id check that extension again Tack. AFAIK i got the longest extention and its up in June. Also see 1st post;

.

Double check for his sake.

Ya its june im nearly sure.
I seen a notice up in the station when i was in with mine 2 months ago that all firearms apps were overdue.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

The firearms awareness day is aimed at the general public; but we've been told the FPU's goal is to ensure consistent policy and levels of knowledge amongst Supers and Chief Supers...

I know another story like that it begins like this

Once upon a time in a far, far away land ....................

In our current reality some Supers and Chief Supers are reported to be totally ignoring the FPU and are not even obliged not to mention legally bound to take 'advice' from them !!!

jwshooter

i got a e mail off CA to day ,fair tempted to e mail it to my Sargent .

bunny shooter

Now that is unfair you just leave us hanging now

Sparks

Mr Mole wrote: »

Sparks, are you being cynical now?:D

I said it was their job, I didn't say they'd been successful...

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

I said it was their job, I didn't say they'd been successful...

To which I refer you to post #13 on this thread

Sparks

You should write a letter of complaint to the Commissioner Bunny!

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

You should write a letter of complaint to the Commissioner Bunny!

Ya :rolleyes: great idea :rolleyes: set up an FCP thingy :rolleyes: convince shooters that everything will be grand :rolleyes: any more of them great ideas

Sparks

Just the same one I've had for the last decade - do things with a degree of intelligence and pragmatism, instead of this stupid romantic idea of the great Irish Romantic Failure which we've been pursuing since 1999 or thereabouts, with lots of shouting and expensive ineffectual court cases and the like.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Just the same one I've had for the last decade - do things with a degree of intelligence and pragmatism, instead of this stupid romantic idea of the great Irish Romantic Failure which we've been pursuing since 1999 or thereabouts, with lots of shouting and expensive ineffectual court cases and the like.

"we've" some of us you mean

Sparks

Some of the 2% of us, I'd say Bunny.
Unfortunately, it just takes one shouty eejit to do enormous damage to the rest of us with ill-advised lawsuits or stupid media statements or the like.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Some of the 2% of us, I'd say Bunny.

Agreed but if some of the other 98% were even consulted things might be different

Sparks wrote: »

Unfortunately, it just takes one shouty eejit to do enormous damage to the rest of us with ill-advised lawsuits or stupid media statements or the like.

I wonder who you mean

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Just the same one I've had for the last decade - do things with a degree of intelligence and pragmatism, instead of this stupid romantic idea of the great Irish Romantic Failure which we've been pursuing since 1999 or thereabouts, with lots of shouting and expensive ineffectual court cases and the like.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Some of the 2% of us, I'd say Bunny.
Unfortunately, it just takes one shouty eejit to do enormous damage to the rest of us with ill-advised lawsuits or stupid media statements or the like.

while the 2 % sit with there heads so far up there own ass holes they would have google earth to find it .

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

while the 2 % sit with there heads so far up there own ass holes they would have google earth to find it .

Now that is good !!!!!! and unfortunately true

pat58

jwshooter wrote: »

while the 2 % sit with there heads so far up there own ass holes they would have google earth to find it .

At least you say it the way it is;)

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

while the 2 % sit with there heads so far up there own ass holes they would have google earth to find it .

Somehow jw, I don't think you'd know what the 2% are up to if we sat down and spent our entire bank holiday weekend writing it up.

Suffice to say, the vast majority of that 2% are doing the scut work that the other 98% don't bother doing, but without which, 100% of shooting would probably never happen. They do it as unpaid volunteer labour and frankly, don't get enough thanks for it.

But one or two individuals have a habit of undermining all their work in their ongoing quest to fight da powa, and the next thing you know the other 98% are suddenly crapped on from a great height, and then those one or two individuals point to the 2% and blame them, and people just lap it up. It's very frustrating the first time you see it happen, but by the time you're seeing it happen for the third or fourth time, it's worse - and that's why a lot of people just give up on the whole affair, with the end result that those one or two loudmouthed nitwits can destroy an entire sport for hundreds of people at a cost of thousands of euro apiece and then go on to paint themselves as the heroes of that sport.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Somehow jw, I don't think you'd know what the 2% are up to if we sat down and spent our entire bank holiday weekend writing it up.

I think that may be most of the problem. The 2% keep it all secret :rolleyes:

Sparks wrote: »

Suffice to say, the vast majority of that 2% are doing the scut work that the other 98% don't bother doing, but without which, 100% of shooting would probably never happen. They do it as unpaid volunteer labour and frankly, don't get enough thanks for it.

But one or two individuals have a habit of undermining all their work in their ongoing quest to fight da powa, and the next thing you know the other 98% are suddenly crapped on from a great height, and then those one or two individuals point to the 2% and blame them, and people just lap it up. It's very frustrating the first time you see it happen, but by the time you're seeing it happen for the third or fourth time, it's worse - and that's why a lot of people just give up on the whole affair, with the end result that those one or two loudmouthed nitwits can destroy an entire sport for hundreds of people at a cost of thousands of euro apiece and then go on to paint themselves as the heroes of that sport.

Name & shame

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

I think that may be most of the problem. The 2% keep it all secret :rolleyes:

And you think I'm a fan of that?
Doesn't mean they're utterly unsuited, it just means they need to improve.
And as I understand it, several have become far more open in the last few years...

Name & shame

Ever hear of a SLAPP case?
Besides, anyone who's read this forum or it's archives, will be able to guess at at least one name.

John 52

Sparks wrote: »

And you think I'm a fan of that?
Doesn't mean they're utterly unsuited, it just means they need to improve.
And as I understand it, several have become far more open in the last few years...Ever hear of a SLAPP case?
Besides, anyone who's read this forum or it's archives, will be able to guess at at least one name.

What is a slapp case?

jwshooter

i know a lot of MF that want a slap

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

And you think I'm a fan of that?
Doesn't mean they're utterly unsuited, it just means they need to improve.
And as I understand it, several have become far more open in the last few years...Ever hear of a SLAPP case?
Besides, anyone who's read this forum or it's archives, will be able to guess at at least one name.

OK, OK, your blogg from FCP conference comes to mind .....

Never heard of that BUT know of it happeneing and know who did it and the amazing thing is they got away with it :rolleyes: :mad:

Sparks

John 52 wrote: »

What is a slapp case?

Click on the link, it has a reasonably good explanation - but to paraphrase, it's sueing someone while knowing you'd lose in court, but counting on the cost of the court case to shut them up from saying something you want kept out of the public eye.

bunny shooter wrote: »

Never heard of that BUT know of it happeneing and know who did it and the amazing thing is they got away with it :rolleyes: :mad:

Yup. The cost of court cases in Ireland does have that effect. It's the main reason we didn't find out all of what Haughey was up to until he was well out of harm's way.

bunny shooter

I don't mean Haughey :eek:

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

I don't mean Haughey :eek:

I don't either, but the principle's the same.

SAKO_FTR

The cost of court cases in Ireland does have that effect.

IMHO it seams that seniors officers in An Garda Siochana can refuse licences that where previously granted knowing the only recourse for the applicant is to go to the District Court.
The applicant my not having the money to take the case to the District Court so the license is lost.

Participants in various disciplines of the shooting sports who no longer have licenses for their firearms are now looking at golf on the telly!

A great line is "You can have anything you like as long as it's not something I don't like!!"

Rovi

Here's the notice as scanned from the Irish Farmers Journal, Saturday 12 June 2010:

daveob007

Just heard for m a dealer that 2 weeks sfter that date an audit will be done on all firearms whos owners were refused licences for and who did not appeal,they will be forced to sell by the end of june or surrender to the gardai for destruction.
anyone else hear this

Sparks

Seems to be correct. From the Sunday Business Post:

Gardai order audit of country’s gun owners
13 June 2010 By John Burke Public Affairs Correspondent

Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy has ordered an audit of the country’s gun owners, amid concerns over the ‘‘large number’’ of unregistered firearms across the country.

Firearms groups were informed about the audit on June 2, the same day that 12 people were shot dead in Cumbria by taxi driver Derrick Bird. The audit will be conducted in ‘‘early July’’, according to correspondence seen by The Sunday Business Post.

It will be carried out by garda superintendents in each district nationwide, under legislation originally devised to tackle organised crime gangs.

The nationwide audit is aimed at people who own licensed guns, but may have lapsed in re-licensing some or all of their firearms.

Anyone found in possession of an unlicensed gun faces the prospect of their ‘‘firearms being seized or may even render them liable to prosecution’’, according to the correspondence.

The audit will follow National Firearms Awareness Day, which is designated for this Wednesday, when gardaí will be making themselves available at garda stations nationwide to advise on how to obtain permits under the new three-year licensing system.

Prior to the new licence system being launched, there were more than 230,000 firearms licensed in the state, of which more than 177,000 were shotguns.

‘‘Large numbers of firearms owners have still not yet re-applied for their new three year firearm certificates," according to the letter from the gardaí to gun groups. All old gun licences expire at the end of this month.

The government is engaged in a dispute with gun groups over the new licensing regime, as well as recent garda decisions over the issue of permits for certain handguns.

The state last week said it would oppose a High Court application by a pistol shooter, Patrick Herlihy, who has challenged a District Court judge’s refusal to grant him firearms certificates for six pistols - the judge refused to grant certificates for the guns on the grounds of their lethal nature.

daveob007

That sounds worrying alright,looks like the state is doing everything to rid the country of as many firearms as possible regardless of the costs incurred to us or the losses we face.
The dealer who tols me this is a member of the fcp and the group who represents the dealers and is on the ball when it comes to information.
We should all start bombarding our tds on this one and demand compensation.
I spoke to Niall Collins last week about my own case and he agrees that compensation should be part of the package,but then we have Ahern who does not give a toss about our losses so not expecting much to come from that.
My own gun for which I did not appeal will fetch around 200 euros and I paid 800 for it,but might just have to let it go for that if the state are going to sieze it for 0 euros.
Very bad form from the state .
Where next?????

guns4fun

The state last week said it would oppose a High Court application by a pistol shooter, Patrick Herlihy, who has challenged a District Court judge’s refusal to grant him firearms certificates for six pistols - the judge refused to grant certificates for the guns on the grounds of their lethal nature.

This case is deeply worrying,it shows the governments determination to get rid of all handguns.
This bunch have about 2 years left in power and with the help of the gormless greens they might just see it through.
They can still do a lot of damage in that time because they know that they won't be getting in again for a long time hopefully.
If the case above is anything to go by then the state could regard anything lethal and so go about the demise of many more types of guns.
The future does look bleak indeed for law abiding shooters while the criminals carry on unhindered.

Grizzly 45

Nothing like being an optimistit eh???I wish Pat every sucess in his case,after being down there and thru it.Pats isnt the only case in front of the HC.There are dozens more on many points of "bad law" to be dealt with.This is a different story from a DC and a judge with no clue on the matter,and a anti gun biased CS.

daveob007

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nothing like being an optimistit eh???I wish Pat every sucess in his case,after being down there and thru it.Pats isnt the only case in front of the HC.There are dozens more on many points of "bad law" to be dealt with.This is a different story from a DC and a judge with no clue on the matter,and a anti gun biased CS.

I wish him and the rest every success too,but it's an awful shame that sportsmen/women have to go to those lengths to keep their sport hense the lack of optimism.
who can blame us for feeling like that but chin up and hopefully all will be well

Bananaman

daveob007 wrote: »

My own gun for which I did not appeal will fetch around 200 euros and I paid 800 for it

Is it a restricted handgun?

If so then you have no choice but to ship it out of the state to sell it anyway as nobody here can get a license for it and you have accepted the refusal (by virtue of not appealing) so you may as well ship it out now.

If it is not then advertise it here on boards and see does anyone want it.

I would not see the state putting a best before date on stock in dealers after which point it must be destroyed. They could not do it in a hardware shop so why do it in a firearms dealers?

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

If so then you have no choice but to ship it out of the state to sell it anyway as nobody here can get a license for it and you have accepted the refusal (by virtue of not appealing) so you may as well ship it out now.

OR, he can store it with an RFD and apply again later on when all the current mess is sorted out in a positive manner. Or have it stored outside the state, in NI (I imagine that NI firearms dealers wouldn't object to the business of providing secure storage for a reasonable fee).

The law says that noone else can apply for a certificate for that pistol other than the OP; it says nothing about the OP himself, who held a licence for the pistol before Nov 19 2009, not being able to ever apply again in the future if the licence lapses.

daveob007

mine is a restricted item 9mm glock17.
dont have the funds to appeal or replace it with something else.
will try advertise it here and see,someone who is licenced might like a change

Rovi

daveob007 wrote: »

mine is a restricted item 9mm glock17.
dont have the funds to appeal or replace it with something else.
will try advertise it here and see,someone who is licenced might like a change

Unfortunately, you, personally, are the only citizen of this country who can licence that particular firearm, having had it licenced before the cut-off date.
There is no provision in the legislation for fullbore pistol licence holders to change firearms, even on a like-for-like basis.

Chiparus

So much for every garda station having personnel available - my local station was closed.:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Chiparus wrote: »

So much for every garda station having personnel available - my local station was closed.:rolleyes:

I used to ring them on the half hour for hours.
In the end I cut out the middle man and went to the main station.

ivanthehunter

There was a nice piece on the 9pm RTE1 news tonight that criticized the licencing procedure and in particular the nation wide discrepancies that we have all experienced. The chap being interviewed stated that a centralized licencing body was required:)