What happened to the Pub??

Colonel Sanders

Have only read the first few pages of this thread so a lot of my post may well be covered already

I live in Dublin but am from Wexford so can give an 'urban superpub' perspective and a more rural one

DUBLIN experience: I rarely go out in town in Dublin. There's a real locals type pub around the corner from me and I love heading for one or two pints of great guinness. The staff are friendly, always remember a round and the pints aren't too expensive. Problem is a lot of my friends are scattered across DUblin so rarely go there to socialise as anyone coming out will either have to get a taxi home or stay in my gaff (and if they stay in my gaff we often get some bottles from the off licence!!).

Dublin city center. Nightmare for me. No selection of decent beers, extortionate prices, loud music etc etc (pretty much been covered). There is also a problem, IMO, with my friends! I find a decent comfortable pub and am enjoying myself and someone gets the bright idea to go somewhere 'a bit livlier'. That's the end of my night, as they usually pick the super pub type places with crap beer/music/staff etc

Wexford Experience: Love heading to pub in Wexford town called Michael Kelly's. Best guninness in town IMO and the staff are as good as it gets. Again pints not too pricey and very comfortable surroundings. My family home is within walking distance too so no hassle re lifts/taxis

I feel sorry for the likes of Gaunty, a publican who seems to do his best to offer a good experience at a reasonable price yet is ignored by a lot of the local patrons (and would be ignored by a lot of my friends too unfortunately).

My idea pub is as follows:

1. wide selection of beers aside from the usual Heineken/Carlsberg etc (although I do take note of what publicans have posted re. space and people set in their ways not trying new stuff)
2. leading on from 2 a few people have suggested promotions to raise awareness of the new beers. Great idea. A beer of the week/month or something at a slightly discounted price. The ones that sell - keep them stocked. The ones that don't - don't
3. decent food at decent prices
4. music is fine as long as its at a reasonable discreet level
5. No problem with sporting events, its when you have sky news/sky sports news on with no sound that annoys me
6. prices are a big sticking point. I love Polish/German beer. Mostly available from off licences for under €2 a bottle. The last time I got a similar beer in Dublin it cost me €6.50 :eek: Sorry but I can't justify that

johnnyskeleton

Interesting thread. I would say that my drinking habits have changed as I've gotten older. In my yoof I'd be happy to go out on a friday or saturday and drink a rake of pints (or sometimes stay completely sober, one or the other).

Now if anything I go to the pub a lot more - maybe even 4/5 times a week - but I'm drinking a lot less, usually one or two pints per night mixed with soft drink nights. I can't remember the last time I went to one of those big bars that play rubbish pop music and don't serve any bottled beers other than weddings and the like.

I usually go to a few of the same pubs, each with a different draw - the old reliable which is quiet, has erdinger dunkel and a good whiskey selection and kinda looks like a Dublin inner city version of the bar at the titanic.

On a sunny day, it is often worth the drop in quality to sit in the sun - we get so few of those days you gotta capitalise on them.

When I get to chose where to go it's somewhere with good beer, good food and good music.

On service, it's something that I don't overtly notice but there is a massive difference between pub where if youre waiting for someone the barman will have a bit of chat with you and somewhere they will ignore you. It's the little touches as well, such as making sure you don't forget anything as you leave or suggesting different beers etc. The service I hate worse than when they are rude to you is when they ignore you in preference to other regulars. Even in the pub I go to most where they know me by name, they would never serve me over someone who has never been there before but got to the bar first. If they did I would tell them to serve the other person, and possibly never come back. There's one pub which I go to sometimes like that with people from work and I hate it.

The World Cup was an obvious one to bring in the crowds but also are particular nights such as Irish night, table quizzes etc.

I doubt any of the good pubs in dublin have seen any major drop off - I was in the porterhouse last thursday and at 5pm I was lucky to get a seat.

And as other posters have said, I'm more than happy to pay extra for a good drink. Of course it shouldn't really be that way - in normal countries the locally produced house wine is always cheaper (and often better) than the more expensive bottles. But I accept that smaller beers are competing with the big boys and therefore have to have higher margins per drink and that's fine with me. The fact that B&C often sell their beers for €4 is also alright with me.

One thing I should point out which is something that could go a bit wrong for the likes of the porterhouse etc is that a good beer selection usually means variety. In B&C they will usually have a new bottled beer for the tasting while other pubs, although having non mainstream beers, don't change up very often/at all.

BeerNut wrote: »

I don't believe for a second that the smoking ban has kept people out of the pubs. I've yet to see any evidence of it and, anecdotally, I know far more people who are encouraged to go and stay longer in the pub because of it. I well believe that the drink driving laws have affected rural pubs, but I think this is a good thing: road safety is more important than rural small business, harsh and all as that may sound; lives over livelihoods.

I would add that I'm very suspicious of the publicans' lobby using the smoking ban and drink driving laws, and the liberal availability of alcohol, as a reason for pubs failing. Pubs fail because they're not offering the customers what they want and I think some publicans have not noticed that a licence isn't the automatic cash cow it once once, and that they have to actually invest in their product if they want it to thrive.

This is an interesting point. I wonder is it possible that the recession has not meant that people go to the pub less, but rather now that your nose doesn't instantly switch off when you go inside a pub people are starting to demand better service and hence good pubs are doing a roaring trade while bad ones are going under. Bull and Castle is only what, 4 years open now, O'Neills made the switch 2/3 years ago, porterhouse opened a few new branches in the last 5 years, not sure about dice bar think that only recently decided to sell craft beers.

BeerNut wrote: »

Remove the ridiculous archaic licensing system we have in this country and I think the overall quality of pubs will improve

Has to be a serious violation of EU competition law. But whatever happened to McDowell's cafe bar licence idea? Scrapped, and instead off licence hours were restricted for some dubious reasons.

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Has to be a serious violation of EU competition law.

You think? I'd have thought as long as there's an open trade in the transfer of licences, it's above board. Unfortunately.

Saruman

On the smoking ban argument, I avoided pubs like the plague until the smoking ban. In fact I did not even drink until the smoking ban. Probably I am a rarity in latter part but not in the first.
Lots of people loath smoking and can not stand being in an environment that is full of smokers. With the smoking ban even a lot of smokers are happier going out from what I hear.

the beer revolu

Saruman wrote: »

On the smoking ban argument, I avoided pubs like the plague until the smoking ban. In fact I did not even drink until the smoking ban. Probably I am a rarity in latter part but not in the first.
Lots of people loath smoking and can not stand being in an environment that is full of smokers. With the smoking ban even a lot of smokers are happier going out from what I hear.

Oh yes, I smoke and I think that the smoking ban was the best thing to happen to pubs.
The smell from you clothes after being in a pub somewhere you can still smoke is horrendous!

Mimikyu

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spacetweek

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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Have seen plenty of them doing that. Just out of interest, are you sure a pitcher is 3+ pints? I was sure they were only 2 1/2.

Smoking ban? Best thing to happen in years. When I'm abroad and they still allow smoking, I don't go to bars. At all.

For every smoker in Ireland that doesn't go to the pub anymore since smoking was removed (even though I've never actually heard of someone doing this), there's probably a load of non-smokers that go to the pub more often now than before.

Noise and TVs are annoying, but it's probaby just because I'm old now (thirties). For me the two biggest bugbears are rude staff (which is rare but sometimes happens), and high prices (which are ubiquitous).

I gotta say, some of the "special offers" available in Dublin in particular are having a laugh. I was in the Foggy Dew 6 months ago and it said, "Special Offer: Vodka and Coke €6.50". This is a joke! When you consider that in Glasgow (fair enough, it's a poorer city than Dublin), a V+Coke is £1.90. One bleedin pound ninety! That's a proper special offer.

the beer revolu

2 pint mass of Grolsch or Warsteiner = €6
2 pint mass of Friarweiss or Grizzly Beard (actually Barrelhead IPA) = €7
Gin & Tonic (Cork Dry Gin, Schwepps Tonic) €3
Pint of draught Guinness = €Not for love nor money (although Foreign extra in fridge)

The joy that is The Abbot's Ale House, Cork.

questionmark?

spacetweek wrote: »

Have seen plenty of them doing that. Just out of interest, are you sure a pitcher is 3+ pints? I was sure they were only 2 1/2.

One of my locals have started doing pitchers and they are 4 pint pitchers for €15. So €3.75 a pint people are taking it as lager is usually 4.50 a pint and cider €4.70. So saving a bit by buying in bulk.

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

Foreign extra in fridge

:eek: Fair forkin' play. More of this, please.

Saruman

You know, I am back from Northern California and the average price of a glass of beer there (about 330ml) is between $6 and $7 and you can add an extra $1 for each drink due to tip.

Prices in Ireland are high but not that high.
Oh and don't mention exchange rate, that is not the point as I am working on the point of view of living there and having to pay that much.

JHMEG

Was in England recently with a few mates, one of whom drinks Guinness. He was paying £2.50 a pint. We came back to Dublin where it was €5 a pint.

The Dublin publican pays €140 for a 50 litre keg, showing the very nice mark-up. But to make ends meet he should be working on his overheads rather than gouging his customers.

Beer is too dear here. (Lack of choice is a different, valid, argument too)

oblivious

JHMEG wrote: »

Beer is too dear here. (Lack of choice is a different, valid, argument too)

Especially when you a drinking Guinness in England!

JHMEG

oblivious wrote: »

Especially when you a drinking Guinness in England!

Not a Guinness drinker myself. I had a selection of real ales which were all cheaper than Guinness.

Mimikyu

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Herbal Deity

I don't think a "pitcher" is a standardised measure, so it depends on the size of the jug the pub has, but they're never less than 3, and are usually 3.5 pints worth IME.

And loads of places do them. It most definitely has caught on. Usually is about €9/10 for one or two beers and €12/13 for any others.

rubadub

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I don't think a "pitcher" is a standardised measure, so it depends on the size of the jug the pub has

Exactly, I remember getting them in some place a good 15years ago here, I still have one which *ahem* fell into my bag. I think it is only 2.5pints to the line.

I think eddie rockets do them, and captain americas and a few others, it comes up in bargain alerts.

Saruman

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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The Czech inn does pitchers. Best to get their own special brew as it is cheap and actually quite enjoyable.

uberwolf

sorry to hop in, having skipped 14 pages.

Drinks choices for the designate are terrible generally.

I cannot stomach more than a glass of coke or most soft drinks. Turns my stomach. I've seen some places make an effort with their alcohol free mocktails and so on - a bit of variety.

And prices on the alcohol free beer should reflect the lack of duty, etc on it. I've been apologised to by bar staff, when buying 0% beer, for the shafting.

OP, if you're still reading, I'd take what you read in this forum with a pinch of salt. This seems to me to be a hangout for beer enthusiasts, rather than drinking enthusiasts. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted with some variety behind the bar and love my ales. But I'm not convinced that catering to the tastes in this forum will grant you success in a small town context

matrim

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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The Longstone on Townsend St does pitchers. I think it's 12 for Staropramen and 10 for Murray's.

maninasia

uberwolf wrote: »

sorry to hop in, having skipped 14 pages.

Drinks choices for the designate are terrible generally.

I cannot stomach more than a glass of coke or most soft drinks. Turns my stomach. I've seen some places make an effort with their alcohol free mocktails and so on - a bit of variety.

And prices on the alcohol free beer should reflect the lack of duty, etc on it. I've been apologised to by bar staff, when buying 0% beer, for the shafting.

OP, if you're still reading, I'd take what you read in this forum with a pinch of salt. This seems to me to be a hangout for beer enthusiasts, rather than drinking enthusiasts. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted with some variety behind the bar and love my ales. But I'm not convinced that catering to the tastes in this forum will grant you success in a small town context

Also boards has more than it's fair share of IT types. It may not be representative of the general population.

Saruman

uberwolf wrote: »

OP, if you're still reading, I'd take what you read in this forum with a pinch of salt. This seems to me to be a hangout for beer enthusiasts, rather than drinking enthusiasts. Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted with some variety behind the bar and love my ales. But I'm not convinced that catering to the tastes in this forum will grant you success in a small town context

I actually agree, in a small town context then it will not help. You need a good size town and preferably one with a young population like a college town.
Athlone would be a good example of somewhere that a good Beer Bar or brew pub might work out very well.

My own town of Rochfortbridge I would not even dream of opening a pub let alone investing in "funny beers" as people would see them as it is too small a town (1600 people or so)

nifheorais

Changing the subject slightly as I dont know where else to ask dis question- Need a pub in VIAS/Bezier, in Langudoc/Rouissillon region ,France to watch gaa match.Does anyone out there know one?
Thanks

CK75

ardinn wrote: »

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

I used to go to the pubs a lot. Unfortunately so many of my friends no longer frequent the establishments. Reasons are 1 - beer is so expensive in the pubs. 2 - babysitters, transport etc. 3 - its so convienent to drink at home! Once the pub habit is broken its hard to go back! strange but true!

Now to get the punters back what should the local pub do....?
1 - provide transport - should be free for regulars
2 - get in a good band occasionally not just some fool with a guitar who only sings ****e!
3 - reduce the prices a bit!
4 - advertise
5 - stop charging E2 for a bag of crisps dammit!!!
6 - quizzes, bingo, talent competions etc usually draw a crowd

The local pub used to be the hub of the community but alas no more.... the vintners need to seriously overhaul their stance on drink prices - thats crucial!

CK75

Table Top Joe wrote: »

This is reason numero uno for me not going out as much anymore,i go out with several different groups of friends,the main ones though always goes to these pubs,drives me spare,they seem to think it makes for a better atmosphere or something and think im just being grumpy,they think "quieter" pubs are for old people i think,ive gone home many times if im in a pub and i cant hear what someone is saying whos standing right next to me,its ridiculous,a pub near me has a timer set on their music from 9pm every Fri and Sat night to make it very,very loud,its incredibly frustrating

Agree! its either thump thump thump music or oul fellas pubs - there isnt much provision for people in their thirties and forties - the groups who should be targeted by the pubs!!

CK75

Nobody can blame people for drinking at home - the prices are keeping people out of the pubs. Young people will drink blue WKD, fat frog etc at home before heading out to the pubs and clubs and its all to do with price! There doesn't seem to be any solution to this. Part of me is sympathetic to pub owners but they are living in a time warp price wise!!!

CK75

Des wrote: »

Two bottles of my favourite beer costs €4 in Tesco.

Two pints of Smithwicks in a pub costs between €9 and €10

That's 150% more expensive.

Also, what cans cost a fiver each?

Would love to know what can costs a fiver.... can of brandy anyone;)

CK75

Steodonn wrote: »

But this makes going out more hassle. Why should I go out when there is a chance I might not get in ? . I can go to a friends house knowing I will have a great time less hassle and cheaper

True - its almost as if these places are trying to repel good paying customers!!!:(

CK75

Come on pubs - do something - you are losing all your customers - period!!!!

johnnyskeleton

BeerNut wrote: »

You think? I'd have thought as long as there's an open trade in the transfer of licences, it's above board. Unfortunately.

The fact that you have to extinguish one licence in order to obtain a new one is a barrier to entry to the market. It is for the government to regulate the terms of use of licences, not to artificially distort the number of licences available.

On a practical level it means that there are less and less speciality off licences and a smaller range of pubs.

IMO, if you comply with terms of use set by the government and don't cause any trouble, if you want a new licence you should be able to get one for a nominal fee.