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BVD
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03-06-2010 11:06am#1
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if you buy in an animal that has already been vaccinated, then test it, that animal is going to show up positive isn't it?
No, the animal will only show up as positive if it is a PI. Just because you vaccinate does not mean that the animal has BVD. As far as i can understand, if you vaccinate a PI cow, then she will not pass on the disease to her calf.0 -
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I'm not debating with you at all.
I know a lot of people who do not vaccinate and get on just fine, like you do. My point was that I found that when I did spend €3 per head on the vaccine, my vet bills for scours and pnumonia went down and the fertility rate in my cows went up.
However, there are a lot of farms with high mortality rates in calves and poor fertility rates. I have an inlaw who lost 11 calves out of 72 this year from pnumonia and scour. There are a lot more farmers out there with similar mortality rates out there. They need to get to the source of the problem. One of these dead calves, if it could be saved, would have paid for the vaccine for the whole herd.
Again, as i said, I'm no expert on BVD, in fact, I haven't really got a clue about it. I'm just passing on the information that i heard.snowman707 wrote: »UM that's interesting , about 90%of herds are claimed to carry the bvd virus, as i said we had our first case well over 20 years ago, since then we had another case in a bought in animal and we had a newborn calf which may have been infected. we may have had a couple of cows which lost embryos but who is to say for certain it was caused by bvd
take over 20 years and over 1500 animals born the above record
as long as there is money to be made from selling vaccines ,vets and drug companies will push for sales.
I am NOT advising you NOT to vaccinate your animals, I am just telling you of my experience of bvd.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 8797
Both herd incidence and PI incidence are one-eleventh of what they were starting out. I'll see if I can find a recent summary later.
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert
The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.
Adam Grant
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Join Date:Posts: 8797
Buford T. Justice V wrote: »Yeah, it was supposed to run for 3 years, ideally.
Firstly, it's nice to be, more or less, on the outside of this scheme and able to comment on it as relatively unaffected by it.
But they made an absolute hames of explaining to farmers the importance of removing PIs from breeding herds and were unwilling to restrict herds with PIs after the first 3 years were over and were unwilling to compensate farmers for the removal of those PIs as well.
Who is 'they'?
On the front line its AHI. They are basically working for the 20, or so, groups that back and fund them. That's the farming organisations, the CoOps, AI companies, Dept and Veterinary Ireland.
When it started Ireland was deep in financial strife. There was no government money and the private companies etc, weren't going to pony up.
As regards explaining the importance of removing PIs, I don't see what more could have been done. I was at two meetings, one vet and one farmer, where it was all explained. There was a large body of farmers that didn't go, and couldn't be persuaded, even ones I'd diagnosed the related and fatal Mucosal Disease in. There were articles in the farming press and online. If anyone was bothered the information was there to be found.
From the get-go the IFA were adamant there be no vet involvement in a cattle disease eradication scheme. However illogical that may appear, the scheme as set up is a good one, technologically and scientifically. And it's great to be on the sidelines and without any blame when its duration is discussed.And, tbh, it is looking like a cash injection from farmers into tags companies and An Post, I definitely won't argue with you on that.
Those culpable have already been identified in a previous post. Essentially, it's human nature.I would hope that lessons have been learned for the Johnes scheme but I doubt it:(
AHI were well aware where the Achilles heal was.
Despite the way it had dragged on there are benefits. They are hard to appreciate because they are what didn't happen rather than things you can see. There are ways to calculate it and it has been done. For the industry as a whole its a large amount and can be researched by those interested enough.
At farmer level, some may appreciate less calf scour and pneumonia losses. A decreased level of infertility, abortion and SCCs is harder to see. That will mainly apply to those whose herds were infected. Weanling buyers should be seeing less losses from pneumonia.The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert
The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.
Adam Grant
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Firstly, it's nice to be, more or less, on the outside of this scheme and able to comment on it as relatively unaffected by it.
Who is 'they'?
On the front line its AHI. They are basically working for the 20, or so, groups that back and fund them. That's the farming organisations, the CoOps, AI companies, Dept and Veterinary Ireland.
When it started Ireland was deep in financial strife. There was no government money and the private companies etc, weren't going to pony up.
As regards explaining the importance of removing PIs, I don't see what more could have been done. I was at two meetings, one vet and one farmer, where it was all explained. There was a large body of farmers that didn't go, and couldn't be persuaded, even ones I'd diagnosed the related and fatal Mucosal Disease in. There were articles in the farming press and online. If anyone was bothered the information was there to be found.
From the get-go the IFA were adamant there be no vet involvement in a cattle disease eradication scheme. However illogical that may appear, the scheme as set up is a good one, technologically and scientifically. And it's great to be on the sidelines and without any blame when its duration is discussed.
Those culpable have already been identified in a previous post. Essentially, it's human nature.
AHI were well aware where the Achilles heal was.
Despite the way it had dragged on there are benefits. They are hard to appreciate because they are what didn't happen rather than things you can see. There are ways to calculate it and it has been done. For the industry as a whole its a large amount and can be researched by those interested enough.
At farmer level, some may appreciate less calf scour and pneumonia losses. A decreased level of infertility, abortion and SCCs is harder to see. That will mainly apply to those whose herds were infected. Weanling buyers should be seeing less losses from pneumonia.
Good and true post and has improved the national herd and again the ifa have a lot to answer for. The vet is more important than politics.0 -
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Firstly, it's nice to be, more or less, on the outside of this scheme and able to comment on it as relatively unaffected by it.
Who is 'they'?
On the front line its AHI. They are basically working for the 20, or so, groups that back and fund them. That's the farming organisations, the CoOps, AI companies, Dept and Veterinary Ireland.
When it started Ireland was deep in financial strife. There was no government money and the private companies etc, weren't going to pony up.
As regards explaining the importance of removing PIs, I don't see what more could have been done. I was at two meetings, one vet and one farmer, where it was all explained. There was a large body of farmers that didn't go, and couldn't be persuaded, even ones I'd diagnosed the related and fatal Mucosal Disease in. There were articles in the farming press and online. If anyone was bothered the information was there to be found.
From the get-go the IFA were adamant there be no vet involvement in a cattle disease eradication scheme. However illogical that may appear, the scheme as set up is a good one, technologically and scientifically. And it's great to be on the sidelines and without any blame when its duration is discussed.
Those culpable have already been identified in a previous post. Essentially, it's human nature.
AHI were well aware where the Achilles heal was.
Despite the way it had dragged on there are benefits. They are hard to appreciate because they are what didn't happen rather than things you can see. There are ways to calculate it and it has been done. For the industry as a whole its a large amount and can be researched by those interested enough.
At farmer level, some may appreciate less calf scour and pneumonia losses. A decreased level of infertility, abortion and SCCs is harder to see. That will mainly apply to those whose herds were infected. Weanling buyers should be seeing less losses from pneumonia.
What's the point of the vets involvement, isn't the whinge rant now that there's too many bodies/quangos living out of farmers0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 8797
2.3 million cows at a fiver a cow is 11.5 million
16000 pi calves at a notional value 200e is 3.2 million-you have to value at todays value and thats rough and smooth as regards calf value.add in ahi cost of the scheme and its looking very dodegy econmically especially if this drags on.bvd is one of maybe20 deseases that are affecting calf health so it would only reduce associated morbidity by 5%.
You are viewing the PI calves as a loss due to the scheme. I would look at that the opposite way around. 70% of PIs don't see their first birthday, the majority left don't see their second.
The cost to rear, cost to try to cure, cost to dispose of, and all the time trying their best to bring others with them. I see them as literally, a dead loss.
The difference between the starting incidence and current incidence is lives saved and costs not incurred. A little under 15,000 extra calves alive at their first birthday.
The scheme was costed out before it started and it can be found on the AHI site. Here's an abstract...
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert
The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.
Adam Grant
0 -
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Facing into year 9 of a 6 year programme, I'm a little less then convinced it's going to finish any time soon:pFirstly, it's nice to be, more or less, on the outside of this scheme and able to comment on it as relatively unaffected by it.
Who is 'they'?
On the front line its AHI. They are basically working for the 20, or so, groups that back and fund them. That's the farming organisations, the CoOps, AI companies, Dept and Veterinary Ireland.
When it started Ireland was deep in financial strife. There was no government money and the private companies etc, weren't going to pony up.
As regards explaining the importance of removing PIs, I don't see what more could have been done. I was at two meetings, one vet and one farmer, where it was all explained. There was a large body of farmers that didn't go, and couldn't be persuaded, even ones I'd diagnosed the related and fatal Mucosal Disease in. There were articles in the farming press and online. If anyone was bothered the information was there to be found.
From the get-go the IFA were adamant there be no vet involvement in a cattle disease eradication scheme. However illogical that may appear, the scheme as set up is a good one, technologically and scientifically. And it's great to be on the sidelines and without any blame when its duration is discussed.
Those culpable have already been identified in a previous post. Essentially, it's human nature.
AHI were well aware where the Achilles heal was.
Despite the way it had dragged on there are benefits. They are hard to appreciate because they are what didn't happen rather than things you can see. There are ways to calculate it and it has been done. For the industry as a whole its a large amount and can be researched by those interested enough.
At farmer level, some may appreciate less calf scour and pneumonia losses. A decreased level of infertility, abortion and SCCs is harder to see. That will mainly apply to those whose herds were infected. Weanling buyers should be seeing less losses from pneumonia.0 -
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