Shooting in Cumbria [READ MOD NOTES IN POST #1 BEFORE POSTING OR READING]

Sparks

Mod Note:
This is the merged thread on the shootings in Cumbria and their aftermath, re-opened after a week or two, the moratorium being for the purposes of basic human decency.

We'd just like to remind everyone to take a re-read of the charter before posting here and to keep things civil. While we may face calls for legislative change as a result of this tragedy, many families have lost far more, and it would be appreciated if noone posted anything that they would never say face-to-face about this.

rowa

just seen the news from the uk, wait for the knee jerk reaction in the uk.

buckshotbrolan

rowa wrote: »

just seen the news from the uk, wait for the knee jerk reaction in the uk.

?

rowa

buckshotbrolan wrote: »

?

guy gone on the rampage with a shotgun.

jwshooter

it happened just after 10am ,looking at it on sky news ,shootings in cumbria . at least 3 dead ,he used a shot gun .

looks like he whacked himself in a wood.

Sparks

I think perhaps we should show a degree of good taste and not dive into speculation as to the long-term legislative effects in the UK before they've even notified the families of the casualties...

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

I think perhaps we should show a degree of good taste and not dive into speculation as to the long-term legislative effects in the UK before they've even notified the families of the casualties...

well they are already talking about firearms laws and dunblane and hungerford etc on the news so they aren't hanging around getting the poison in.

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

well they are already talking about firearms laws and dunblane and hungerford etc on the news so they aren't hanging around getting the poison in.

Yes, but wouldn't it be nice if we were better than that?

Jonty

may the victims RIP

jwshooter

for once i do agree with sparks

bunny shooter

A bad day for ALL shooting sports

Terrible tradegy

Vegeta

What a tragic loss of life

rowa

Vegeta wrote: »

What a tragic loss of life

yes and it appears there may be more fatalities. madness.

slippy wicket

What a tragedy, 12 people dead and 8 injured.

Sky talking about shotgun or "sniper" rifle being used and if legal or illegally held.

He must have been a very sick man.

tac foley

slippy wicket wrote: »

What a tragedy, 12 people dead and 8 injured.

Sky talking about shotgun or "sniper" rifle being used and if legal or illegally held.

He must have been a very sick man.

And sadly we'll never know why he did it, as he has put himself beyond OUR laws.

Was he another possible malcontent? A divorced man who was very quiet, kept to himself, did not socialise - what more will come out of the inquiry? Were the gun legally held? It is reported that they had been his father's, and left to him when he died. Hmmmmmmmmmm

One thing is for certain, things can only get more difficult for us over here.

More to come, no doubt of it.

Whether they be alive or dead, our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families on this terrible day.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Mears Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Grizzly 45

Looks like a shotgun and .22rifle is what was used.Seems he got them from his dad when he died.So it is possible he didnt have a FAC or SGC for them.

Just what the UK and the world shooting community needs.Another ASSH**LE who lets his dog off the leash,and causes mayhem and the rest of us gunowners have to suffer the consequences...Say Goodbye to any chance of the pistol ban being loosened now in the UK.Not to mind giving our shower more excuses to go on about public saftey and preventing such tragedies happening here,and watch the UK become even more paranoid about guns and shooting.As if it wasnt bad enough over there...
Hope that F*UKER ROTS IN HELL!:mad::mad::mad:

jwshooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Looks like a shotgun and .22rifle is what was used.Seems he got them from his dad when he died.So it is possible he didnt have a FAC or SGC for them.

Just what the UK and the world shooting community needs.Another ASSH**LE who lets his dog off the leash,and causes mayhem and the rest of us gunowners have to suffer the consequences...Say Goodbye to any chance of the pistol ban being loosened now in the UK.Not to mind giving our shower more excuses to go on about public saftey and preventing such tragedies happening here,and watch the UK become even more paranoid about guns and shooting.As if it wasnt bad enough over there...
Hope that F*UKER ROTS IN HELL!:mad::mad::mad:

HAVE A LOOK AT POST 5 PLEASE .

rowa

His neighbours and people who knew the shooter have said that he wasn't a loner or nutter (until now) and was popular and well liked , but had some sort of row with someone last night and flipped.

J.R.

At least 12 killed in Cumbria shooting
By James Boxell, Home Affairs Correspondent . The Financial Times Limited 2010.

Published: June 2 2010 16:59 | Last updated: June 2 2010 18:21

A Cumbrian taxi driver shot dead 12 people on Wednesday before turning his gun on himself in one of the worst mass shootings to take place in Britain.

Police said a body believed to be that of the suspect, Derrick Bird, 52, had been found in a wood in the Boot area of the picturesque Lake District in north-west England.

Terrified locals and tourists were told earlier in the day to stay indoors as police launched a county-wide manhunt after reports of shootings in several towns across western Cumbria.

The first fatality was in the coastal town of Whitehaven at 10.35am before the gunman drove south, apparently shooting people at random. At least 25 other people were injured, three critically, according to Nigel Calvert, associate director of public health from NHS Cumbria.

Witnesses said the suspect drove through the town with a gun hanging out of his car window, before heading south through Gosforth and Seascale.

Stuart Hyde, assistant chief constable of Cumbria police, said: “We are still at a very early stage in our investigation and we are not able to really understand the motivation behind it – or establish whether this was a premeditated or random attack.”

Officers are investigating Mr Bird’s history, his access to firearms and what kind of licences he held.

Previous mass shootings in Hungerford in 1987 and Dunblane in 1996 led to greater restrictions on firearms.

Mr Hyde said there were more than 30 crime scenes after the “horrific” attacks. “This has shocked the people of Cumbria,” he added.

David Cameron, the British prime minister, told parliament: “When lives and communities are suddenly shattered in this way, our thoughts should be with all those caught up with these tragic events.”

The police said every armed officer in Cumbria had been involved in the manhunt. Helicopters and officers from other forces were brought in to help in the search for the self-employed taxi driver.

Lorraine Rimmer, who works for Stirling Cabs in Whitehaven, said Mr Bird had shot three taxi drivers following a dispute, apparently killing two and leaving another in intensive care.

“He had a dispute with a taxi driver yesterday morning which carried on into today. He absolutely lost the plot,” she said.

Mass shootings remain rare in the UK, which has stricter gun controls than many other countries.

The worst incident took place in 1996 when 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and a teacher at a school in the Scottish town of Dunblane. He injured 13 other children and three teachers before killing himself.

In 1987, Michael Ryan shot and killed 16 people in the quiet Berkshire town of Hungerford. The 27-year-old seriously wounded another 15 people.

Bosco boy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Looks like a shotgun and .22rifle is what was used.Seems he got them from his dad when he died.So it is possible he didnt have a FAC or SGC for them.

Just what the UK and the world shooting community needs.Another ASSH**LE who lets his dog off the leash,and causes mayhem and the rest of us gunowners have to suffer the consequences...Say Goodbye to any chance of the pistol ban being loosened now in the UK.Not to mind giving our shower more excuses to go on about public saftey and preventing such tragedies happening here,and watch the UK become even more paranoid about guns and shooting.As if it wasnt bad enough over there...
Hope that F*UKER ROTS IN HELL!:mad::mad::mad:

I think the real people who are suffering are the injured and the families of the deceased and not gun owners!!!!!! I'm not against gun ownership but lessons need to be learned also. Maybe we're all benifiting from a stringint firearms application process in this country or do we need this to happen here for us to realise that not every tom dick or harry should have the gun of his/her choice.

Grizzly 45

:rolleyes:Well,well, the first flyby post of the night!! You are not against gunownership,BUT.... Same as I'm not racist,I have many colored friends...BUT
If you havent noticed Bosco,that the UK has stringent firearms laws and guess what?? THEY DONT WORK!! But of course it will be the gunowners who suffer.After all ,if you could be botherd reading the websites the Baaaaann them crowd are out in force already.
No doubt the usual Banit crowd will be out tomrrow calling for more stringent gun laws,and nothing will change ,due it being more easier to aquire here or in the UK an illegal gun than a legal one.
As Einstein once said.The sign of insanity is repeating the same failure,again again and again and expecting different results.
Now why dont you go troll somwhere else???

Bosco boy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

:rolleyes:Well,well, the first flyby post of the night!!
If you havent noticed Bosco,that the UK has stringent firearms laws and guess what?? THEY DONT WORK!! But of course it will be the gunowners who suffer.After all ,if you could be botherd reading the websites the Baaaaann them crowd are out in force alllready.As Einstein once said.The sign of insanity is repeating the same failure,again again and again and expecting different results.
Now why dont you go troll somwhere else???

Ya, your right its the gun owners who are suffering tonight!! I apologise, by the way i happen to hold a firearm certificate and I'm not trolling, There are 13 people dead!!!!! and 25 injured :mad:

Grizzly 45

Yes,it has happened!!What are we going to do about it FFS????WE CANT DO ANYTHING for them!!!Dont come on here whining and pussing when Dermo decides this is another "good reason to tighten up Irish gun laws".While we all sit in dignified silence and get run over like when Dunblane hit the UK.We have to be for once PRO active not RE active.For a Firearms cert holder you dont seem too worried that YOUR cert might be on the line soon..Remember whatever happens in the UK we must copy 100% with our slave mentality.

Tackleberrywho

Bosco boy wrote: »

I think the real people who are suffering are the injured and the families of the deceased and not gun owners!!!!!! I'm not against gun ownership but lessons need to be learned also. Maybe we're all benifiting from a stringint firearms application process in this country or do we need this to happen here for us to realise that not every tom dick or harry should have the gun of his/her choice.

Bosco boy, you appear to be a Garda or Reserve Garda
yes the people who are suffering currently are the poor individuals who received this cold and random act of violence.

As you should know if you are a Garda, in Ireland people wanting forearms have to get a sign off from their doctor.

have to have proved competent and be approved by gardai.

But politician's like to use issues like this as political footballs.

If a man is insane, danger to himself and others, why was he a public Taxi driver???
Who gave him the licence to DRIVE

jwshooter

Bosco boy wrote: »

I think the real people who are suffering are the injured and the families of the deceased and not gun owners!!!!!! I'm not against gun ownership but lessons need to be learned also. Maybe we're all benifiting from a stringint firearms application process in this country or do we need this to happen here for us to realise that not every tom dick or harry should have the gun of his/her choice.

its very sad what happened bosco .

possibly if you were familiar with the firearm legislation in ireland you might not have worded your disgust to what happened in a different way .

things happen in this world for what ever reasons we dont know at times . if the guy drove his taxi into a bunch of school children at a bus stop ,would we go on a witch hunt . possibly not .


so lets not start throwing stones in case one might land on your door step some time .

if your a religious person ,say a prayer for the departed .

jwshooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

:rolleyes:Well,well, the first flyby post of the night!! You are not against gunownership,BUT.... Same as I'm not racist,I have many colored friends...BUT
If you havent noticed Bosco,that the UK has stringent firearms laws and guess what?? THEY DONT WORK!! But of course it will be the gunowners who suffer.After all ,if you could be botherd reading the websites the Baaaaann them crowd are out in force already.
No doubt the usual Banit crowd will be out tomrrow calling for more stringent gun laws,and nothing will change ,due it being more easier to aquire here or in the UK an illegal gun than a legal one.
As Einstein once said.The sign of insanity is repeating the same failure,again again and again and expecting different results.
Now why dont you go troll somwhere else???

out of order ranting .

Grizzly 45

As you should know if you are a Garda, in Ireland people wanting forearms have to get a sign off from their doctor.

As they do in the UK,and we adapted this stupid intrusion into privacy from the UK after Abbylara.Fat lot of good it did in this case.

have to have proved competent and be approved by gardai.

As they do in the UK as well.As well as being signed off on the more stringent personal references.

If a man is insane, danger to himself and others, why was he a public Taxi driver???
Who gave him the licence to DRIVE

Dont think he was insane..It seems he was pushed to over the limit by life and people picking on him,and some sort of inheritance going pear shaped.
Not that thats an excuse.But maybe we should try walking a mile in his shoes??
Well, he would have been signed off by the local police force as well. for a taxi driver,but then again that has been effective too hasnt it ?How many rapist taxi drivers have there been as well in Ireland and the UK?This doesnt sort out the potential crime,just the known criminal.

Grizzly 45

STRIKE 2 JW!:rolleyes:

landkeeper

well mr Grizzly, as a firearms owner of 30 years and a father and husband i for one am glad that there are firearms controls in place that actually do inhibit the ownership of guns to some extent ,the fact that we have to jump through hoops to get what we want in my book is a good thing ,there are too many guns allready in this country and too many irresponsible idiots driving the roads and lamping where they have no right or reason .
on a sad and serious note there are families this evening who will not see their daughter son mother father again down to the actions of one unhappy soul for whatever reason he chose to do what he did ,whether they were his fathers guns or his they were i bet legally held , the fact that it was a .22 and a shotgun was maybe a blessing to some of the people who were around him , just imagine what might have happened if he had had one of the semi automatic see all kill all rifles you were lusting over the other day
it's time we all realise that gun ownership is a privelige not a right we live on a island where the biggest thing you can legally shoot is a red stag an annimal that is easily bested by a .270
no matter what you think it is down to percieved perception and a sporting rifle looks far less sinister than a ar15 lookalike to joe soap imho
i'll get my coat

It wasn't me!

This really isn't the time or circumstance. I'd like if we could all just display some respect and not bicker for tonight at least. There'll be plenty of time to discuss the ramifications later, but let's just be decorous on the very day of the tragedy.

Sparks

Closing this now before it goes completely off the rails and we have to do something less social about it.

Grizzly 45

from the usual suspects John Fitzgerald in todays Indo...
Any organisation or individual going to respond en masse for a change....Or will it be left to "the Few" of Boards.ieagain????:rolleyes:


Friday June 04 2010

In the wake of the tragic mass murders in Cumbria, I suggest we need to address our own growing gun culture in Ireland, where in excess of 220,000 firearms are legally held by citizens.
The problem, however, is that the vast majority of guns used in non-gangland murders, in suicides, in attempts to kill or injure a spouse or partner in domestic disputes, or in killings legally defined as manslaughter cases in Ireland, are legally held.
The weapons that Derrick Bird used to kill 12 people and injure scores of others were, according to media reports, a hunting rifle and a shotgun. Both types of guns are widely on sale and are easily accessible in Ireland.
A measure that would make guns safer in our country would be to have all of them micro-chipped or electronically tagged in such a way that the gardai or other statutory controlling authority could track the movement of each weapon at all times.
This would be a variation on the proposed micro-chipping of dogs contained in the draft Dog Breeding Establishments Bill -- the aim being simply to keep tabs on every gun in the country.
Otherwise we take our chances with those 220,000 guns out there and their 220,000 owners.
John Fitzgerald
Co Kilkenny

Irish Independent

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

from the usual suspects John Fitzgerald in todays Indo...
Any organisation or individual going to respond en masse for a change....Or will it be left to "the Few" of Boards.ieagain????:rolleyes:


Friday June 04 2010

In the wake of the tragic mass murders in Cumbria, I suggest we need to address our own growing gun culture in Ireland, where in excess of 220,000 firearms are legally held by citizens.
The problem, however, is that the vast majority of guns used in non-gangland murders, in suicides, in attempts to kill or injure a spouse or partner in domestic disputes, or in killings legally defined as manslaughter cases in Ireland, are legally held.
The weapons that Derrick Bird used to kill 12 people and injure scores of others were, according to media reports, a hunting rifle and a shotgun. Both types of guns are widely on sale and are easily accessible in Ireland.
A measure that would make guns safer in our country would be to have all of them micro-chipped or electronically tagged in such a way that the gardai or other statutory controlling authority could track the movement of each weapon at all times.
This would be a variation on the proposed micro-chipping of dogs contained in the draft Dog Breeding Establishments Bill -- the aim being simply to keep tabs on every gun in the country.
Otherwise we take our chances with those 220,000 guns out there and their 220,000 owners.
John Fitzgerald
Co Kilkenny

Irish Independent

One word For Fitz "Looder"

Sparks

Any NGB replying to a man with a criminal conviction writing in a pseudo-tabloid is only going to use that NGB's reputation to boost his. Frankly, anyone writing in response is risking the same, though the risk is somewhat lower.

One of these days, he'll make the mistake of identifying one individual (or a sufficiently small group) in one of his diatribes - or they'll change the law so that you can defame a large group - and then he can be sued for defamation and that should put a stop to this nonsense. Until then, all we could do is shout impotently at him or spend our time more productively.

Half-cocked

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A measure that would make guns safer in our country would be to have all of them micro-chipped or electronically tagged in such a way that the gardai or other statutory controlling authority could track the movement of each weapon at all times.
This would be a variation on the proposed micro-chipping of dogs contained in the draft Dog Breeding Establishments Bill -- the aim being simply to keep tabs on every gun in the country.
Otherwise we take our chances with those 220,000 guns out there and their 220,000 owners.
John Fitzgerald
Co Kilkenny

Irish Independent

Actually, this makes a lot of sense! Why not take his argument to its logical conclusion and chip every person in the country, either at birth, or upon entry into the State? That way the gardai or other statutory controlling authority could track the movement of each individual at all times.

Otherwise we take our chances with those 4,000,000+ people out there, any one of whom could commit a crime at any given moment!!!!

Sparks

Because we don't have to. We can already track everyone in the country to within a few dozen yards using their mobile phones.

Grizzly 45

Gardaí insist gun laws are as tough as they can be to stop mass killings





RONAN McGREEVY
THE STATE’S gun laws are as stringent as they can be to prevent a mass shooting similar to the one in Cumbria this week, according to a senior garda.
Supt John Gilligan said at Garda headquarters in Dublin yesterday that there was as much “legislation as you can have” to deal with such an eventuality.
The Garda announced yesterday a national firearms licensing awareness day for June 16th in advance of a deadline for people holding firearms to switch over to a new licensing system on July 1st.
There will also be advertisements in local newspapers aimed at the farming community.
The legislation was brought in to deal with gun crime. It includes a ban on handguns, a requirement for referees, background medical checks and standards for the keeping of all guns, with tightened licensing procedures for the renewal of currently licensed guns.
It also provides for a comprehensive audit of all firearm owners to be conducted by each superintendent in every Garda district.
Though the original provisions of the new laws were aimed at gangland criminals, the awareness campaign is for law-abiding gun owners.
Supt Gilligan said the campaign to regularise licences under the provision of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 was obviously decided before the actions of Derrick Bird, who killed himself and 11 people in a shooting spree in Cumbria on Wednesday afternoon.
He conceded the issue was now topical, although such an incident had never happened in Ireland.
“Even before this new legislation, local sergeants and superintendents have always had a role in deciding the suitability of anybody to hold a licence.
“People have had their firearms taken off them because they did something stupid by producing a shotgun at the gate to somebody. That happens on a regular basis anyway.”
Under the provisions of the Act, all gun owners must have a new three-year firearms certificate to replace the old one-year certificate. The new three-year licence costs €80 and the collection of fees has been outsourced to An Post.
Every new gun holder must also have a new firearm training certificate.
When the Government brought in the new Act last year, licensed gun holders were given a free extension of their existing licences to facilitate the change over from the old to the new.
The last batch of 25,000 licence holders will have to be renewed by June 30th. Those who fail to swap over may have their firearms seized and face prosecution.
Gardaí will be available on June 16th at Garda stations between 10am and 6pm to assist in filling out the application form to receive the new certificate.
“We’re trying to target people who live in a rural area who hold one shotgun,” said Supt Fergus Healy of the Garda crime policy and administration section. “They are the main category of people who have not come forward to licence their gun.
“We don’t want a situation where we find a lot of people in possession of firearms which have not been regularised or certified.”
He said applicants had to consent to allow a superintendent to make inquiries about their background if necessary. “Each case is judged on its own merits, but there is a provision in the legislation to allow for a superintendent to make whatever checks are necessary, and the person must show willingness to co-operate with the superintendent.”
Background checks into the man who carried out the Cumbrian shootings found that he had only a minor conviction and was not known to have any mental health problems.

thedragon

Ive been watching this since it all took place in Cumbria and for sure we're going to bare the brunt of the fallout.

The thruth is as the last poster said, this could happen here just as easy at any time and for no apparent reason.

Justice for sure will have to look into measures to inhibit this terrible possibility and in doing so they will probably find themselves up against a brick wall.

The Dept of justice are not fools and dont anyone ever think they are but they do need to make efforts in securing our general population.

They are also very aware that crimes commited with firearms are crimes that would be commited with or without firearms. I mean to say that had the criminal not had access to a gun he would use some other means to carry out his criminal activity. Justice know this and to be honest, would it not make us a safer place to be if we did have to go into a psychological evaluation in order to succeed in our firearms applications.

The thruth about this terrible atrocity in Cumria is that it was carried out with firearms which is a major blow for the shooting fraternity for sure.

If Mr Bird didnt have access to firearms at the time, I think he would have done something equally as devastating with some other means do so. Possibly he could have started a series of murders or drove his car into a playground full of kids or something. He just happened to use a gun. You dont need guns to kill you just need madmen with intention. The DOJ know
this and should take into account that we're not the criminals, the criminals are the ones they need to factor into any future legislation.

Grizzly 45

One of these days, he'll make the mistake of identifying one individual (or a sufficiently small group) in one of his diatribes - or they'll change the law so that you can defame a large group - and then he can be sued for defamation and that should put a stop to this nonsense. Until then, all we could do is shout impotently at him or spend our time more productively.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm,I would have thought Mrs Bernie Wrights comments this year at the coursing in Clonmel where she compared anyone at the meeting or who particapate in fieldsports as "no better than padeophiles".If not libellous than at least attackable under the incitement to hatred acts??

Half-cocked

Sparks wrote: »

Because we don't have to. We can already track everyone in the country to within a few dozen yards using their mobile phones.

So I leave my phone at home when I head out on a crime spree:D

But seriously, does this character really think chipping firearms will remove the risk of a gun owner breaking the law? If so, can we chip all motor vehicles please? They are killing 100's of people very year and injuring 1000's. The technology exists to fit data loggers to every vehicle in the State and prosecute every driver who's logger shows he/she speeded - a recognized major contributor to road deaths. Here's a real and current danger to the citizenry of the State. But that won't happen, it will be a breach of our civil liberties, and this character and his ilk will be the first to jump up and down about it in the media if it ever happened. But gun owners aren't entitled to civil liberties,are we? We signed those away when we signed that application form for a license!!!;)

Grizzly 45

Justice know this and to be honest, would it not make us a safer place to be if we did have to go into a psychological evaluation in order to succeed in our firearms applications.

Er Not really,as athe Germans are doing this with new shooters who are coming into the sport.There has already been uproar about it,as with anything medical professionals differ in their opinion.One lad was classed as borderline nutter by a state appointed shrink for gun saftey.He went away and got himself checked out,and was found by another to be 100% fit mentally.Now he is sueing the State.Look, it is bad enough having to deal with the Gardai/DoJ here about a relatively normal procedure of liscensing a gun without having to add the medical profession to this list of opponents.The thought of having to fight the medical council as well in the court for a mis diagnosis regarding your FAC,should send shivvers down anyones spine who shoots here.:eek:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hmmm,I would have thought Mrs Bernie Wrights comments this year at the coursing in Clonmel where she compared anyone at the meeting or who particapate in fieldsports as "no better than padeophiles".If not libellous than at least attackable under the incitement to hatred acts??

Nope, 'fraid not. You can't defame (it's not libel or slander anymore, they've replaced those two with a single new defamation act earlier this year) a large enough group of people. On the other hand, that also means we can't be sued for defamation when people here post that the Gardai are incompetent at firearms licencing or that the government are all crooks, so it's swings and roundabouts in that sense.

Half-cocked wrote: »

this character and his ilk will be the first to jump up and down about it in the media if it ever happened.

No, it won't be, it'll be us.
And we know that, because it's already happened when they changed the law so that 2nd provisional licence holders couldn't drive alone - the uproar from the general public was so bad that they delayed it for several months knowing that that would cost several lives.

And if they tried doing anything like chipping here - or more practically, installing hard speed limiters so you physically couldn't go past 120kph, which would save hundreds of lives a year - it'd be Joe Public who'd be first in line to complain that he shouldn't have to limit his car to the maximum legal speed he could drive it at, and to vote against whomever introduced the measure.

Look, people like Fitzgerald are the scum of the earth for doing things like this - the bodies aren't even buried by the families, and he's using their deaths as callously and cynically as he can to further his own personal agenda. I'd just rather we didn't prostitute ourselves the same way because then we're basicly him with a slightly different theme tune. Give the families at least a few days to bury their dead, and then we'll talk about how we respond to the tragedy and those who're using it like it was some sort of tool. But this Daily Mirror approach to it, sticking cameras in everyones face and competing for the largest amount of media exposure in tomorrow's chip wrappers, that's just obscene, and I don't think we should have any part in it.

WallysWorld

What exactly does he mean by a chip?? If its just to keep track of who owns what then surely that function is already served by the serial number?

Or those he mean something different?

meathstevie

And all this while one David Cameron who happens to be the prime minister of the United Kingdom speaks against an irrational reaction towards gun ownership.

Sparks

Didn't Cameron do some deerstalking? (Rather a lot of it in fact?)

Odysseus

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Er Not really,as athe Germans are doing this with new shooters who are coming into the sport.There has already been uproar about it,as with anything medical professionals differ in their opinion.One lad was classed as borderline nutter by a state appointed shrink for gun saftey.He went away and got himself checked out,and was found by another to be 100% fit mentally.Now he is sueing the State.Look, it is bad enough having to deal with the Gardai/DoJ here about a relatively normal procedure of liscensing a gun without having to add the medical profession to this list of opponents.The thought of having to fight the medical council as well in the court for a mis diagnosis regarding your FAC,should send shivvers down anyones spine who shoots here.:eek:

Your spot on here, I work in a psychological/mental health position. It's too hard to get a consensus on diagnoses. Too be honest I have difficulties with the current procedure with the GP. Though I wonder how often this happens, from speaking to GPs I work with they have been asked occasionally about an application, but it appears it not a frequent thing either. I know my own GP was not asked on my three applications in the past year.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Didn't Cameron do some deerstalking? (Rather a lot of it in fact?)

Yeah, I believe due to political pressure he's been keeping away from it for a while, but he's pretty big into his country sports.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, I believe due to political pressure he's been keeping away from it for a while, but he's pretty big into his country sports.

As a conservative he should in Theory be ion the side of hunters/shooters. As a PM new in the job, he has to play Polotics so you'd never know what might happen.

juice1304

WallysWorld wrote: »

What exactly does he mean by a chip?? If its just to keep track of who owns what then surely that function is already served by the serial number?

Or those he mean something different?

he means a RFID chip the same chip thats in your passport, or in a car remote, they also use them for pets.

what a stupid idea, lets also chip all of our kitchen knifes and bows while we are at it.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Nope, 'fraid not. You can't defame (it's not libel or slander anymore, they've replaced those two with a single new defamation act earlier this year) a large enough group of people. On the other hand, that also means we can't be sued for defamation when people here post that the Gardai are incompetent at firearms licencing or that the government are all crooks, so it's swings and roundabouts in that sense.

HmmmI wonder if our Muslim friends would agree with that Sparks...;):D
They seem to get riled at the slightest thing,and if Mr Fitz or Mrs Wright had said that about them.I would say by sundown tonight ,there would be a Fatwah issued from the Mosques in Ireland,and those two would be taking up residence with Salman Rushdie,wherever he is.:eek::eek::eek:
What I am saying is;if you dont make enough noiuse about somthing anymore,you get no press mediawhore coverage,no politicans say anything,nothing changes.It is unfortuneatly now who shouts first,longer and louder gets what they want these days.

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Look, people like Fitzgerald are the scum of the earth for doing things like this - the bodies aren't even buried by the families, and he's using their deaths as callously and cynically as he can to further his own personal agenda. I'd just rather we didn't prostitute ourselves the same way because then we're basicly him with a slightly different theme tune. Give the families at least a few days to bury their dead, and then we'll talk about how we respond to the tragedy and those who're using it like it was some sort of tool. But this Daily Mirror approach to it, sticking cameras in everyones face and competing for the largest amount of media exposure in tomorrow's chip wrappers, that's just obscene, and I don't think we should have any part in it.

I agree with you 100% on the moral aspect Sparks,but not on the practical aspect.We will be backfooted again like after Dunblane.:(

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I wonder if our Muslim friends would agree with that Sparks...;):D

Doesn't matter if they do or not Grizzly, they still can't sue for defamation. Blasphemy, maybe, but that's another show...

a Fatwah issued from the Mosques in Ireland

So your approach to preventing a PR backlash from a tragedy like this is to issue death threats? That's somewhat sub-optimal...

I agree with you 100% on the moral aspect Sparks,but not on the practical aspect.We will be backfooted again like after Dunblane.:(

No, we won't be. We weren't backfooted after Dunblane, the British shooters were, and that happened because there was a general election on at the time; at the moment, their latest election is now done and dusted, and their prime minister has been hunting deer for 20 years and they'd have to take on the farmers to ban the firearms used. It's highly unlikely that Labour could gather sufficient political momentum to get a ban brought in, especially with everyone so focussed on economic matters and trying to save their own jobs.