Is there anyone here who has spoken in tongues? [Christian Only]

JimiTime

As the title says, is there anyone here who speaks in tongues. I would like to ask some questions about it, and I'm going to be upfront and honest about my direction. I call shenannigans. Not on its biblical basis, as there is biblical basis for such a thing. I however, call shenannigans on those who say they do it. Like Joe Coleman and his, 'She's indescribably, just beautiful' rubbish with his 'visions', this kind of ambiguity befalls any claims of tongues I see.

Here is my theory. Of all the gifts of spirit described by Paul, 'Tongues' is probably the easiest one to fake. Though the amount of fake 'healers' etc would probably beg to differ. Anyway, it seems quite easy to just babel away and call it a spriritual gift. One can even decieve oneself out of a desire to 'feel' like God is in you etc. So is there anyone who has experience with this gift, that is willing to put themselves up for scrutiny here? I shall NOT mock (Its something I don't find funny tbh), and I promise that I shall be honest, respectful, but also very direct. Maybe play a bit of Devils advocate at times. I was once alot more open to the possibility of the claims of tongues being true, but I've since slipped to the 'Its gibberish' side of the fence from the different forums I've visited refusal (or simply ignore) to take questions on it. It would be great if anyone here who experiences it could be open to a skeptics (A skeptic with faith, who is VERY open to the idea, and believes that there IS a biblical basis for it) questioning it.

StealthRolex

JimiTime wrote: »

As the title says, is there anyone here who speaks in tongues. I would like to ask some questions about it, and I'm going to be upfront and honest about my direction. I call shenannigans. Not on its biblical basis, as there is biblical basis for such a thing. I however, call shenannigans on those who say they do it. Like Joe Coleman and his, 'She's indescribably, just beautiful' rubbish with his 'visions', this kind of ambiguity befalls any claims of tongues I see.

Here is my theory. Of all the gifts of spirit described by Paul, 'Tongues' is probably the easiest one to fake. Though the amount of fake 'healers' etc would probably beg to differ. Anyway, it seems quite easy to just babel away and call it a spriritual gift. One can even decieve oneself out of a desire to 'feel' like God is in you etc. So is there anyone who has experience with this gift, that is willing to put themselves up for scrutiny here? I shall NOT mock (Its something I don't find funny tbh), and I promise that I shall be honest, respectful, but also very direct. Maybe play a bit of Devils advocate at times. I was once alot more open to the possibility of the claims of tongues being true, but I've since slipped to the 'Its gibberish' side of the fence from the different forums I've visited refusal (or simply ignore) to take questions on it. It would be great if anyone here who experiences it could be open to a skeptics (A skeptic with faith, who is VERY open to the idea, and believes that there IS a biblical basis for it) questioning it.

The New Testament gift of tongues was the ability to speak to people in their own language, the ability to spread the word quickly. If you will various Popes had the "gift" though I am sure it was learned rather than an overnight success. No doubt the Holy Spirit provided assistance and for some learning a foreign language comes easier than for others. Call it a talent.

Anyone I've heard "speaking in Tongues" speaks something I cannot understand and that immediately disqualifies it as anything divine.

The easiest test is to send someone who claims the ability into deepest Mongolia or darkest Guinea and see how many converts they gain

Acts 2
1 When Pentecost day came round, they had all met together,
2 when suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of a violent wind which filled the entire house in which they were sitting;
3 and there appeared to them tongues as of fire; these separated and came to rest on the head of each of them.
4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak different languages as the Spirit gave them power to express themselves.
5 Now there were devout men living in Jerusalem from every nation under heaven,
6 and at this sound they all assembled, and each one was bewildered to hear these men speaking his own language.
7 They were amazed and astonished. 'Surely,' they said, 'all these men speaking are Galileans?
8 How does it happen that each of us hears them in his own native language?

If you don't understand what is being said it is gibberish at best and maybe something worse :eek:

Soul Winner

Speaking in tongues i.e. the Glossolalia is something I believe we all do in our deep prayer life but are just not aware of it most of the time. Paul said that he was glad that he spoke in tongues more than they all (i.e. the Corinthian church) and that he would rather have them do it in private amongst themselves so that if a stranger comes into their gatherings that they should not think them mad because, as he says, it is better to speak one word understood than a thousand words in an unknown tongue

The Corinthian church were in the habit of showing off their spiritual gifts. What should have been used to displace sin in them became the vehicle of the most wicked type of sin namely spiritual pride. We still have people doing it today. The I have it and you haven't brigade. Spiritual gifts are exactly that, gifts, they are not to be used in spiritual oneupmanship competitions with other saints.

Paul also says that we don't know how to pray as we ought therefore the spirit makes intercession on our behalf with groanings that we cannot utter, this is, I believe, what the Glossolalia is all about, the spirit helping us make requests to God instead of babbling on with vain repetition like the heathen that Jesus told us not to do. When praying to God we must be specific and speak our minds and put to Him exactly what we request He do for us or whoever.

JimiTime

I appreciate the input guys, but I'd really like to scrutinise those who claim they do this. I understand the arguements for and against glossolalia, but what I'd really like is for someone who can show their honesty in answering questions about it. Someone who has experience of it. EVERY time I have sought answers on it from claiments, its been to either ignore the questions or do a bit of clever 'Do not put God to the test' flip floppery. It would be great, if there was a HONEST person about the place, who could simply answer some questions on their experience. You know what I mean?

Soul Winner

JimiTime wrote: »

I appreciate the input guys, but I'd really like to scrutinise those who claim they do this. I understand the arguements for and against glossolalia, but what I'd really like is for someone who can show their honesty in answering questions about it. Someone who has experience of it. EVERY time I have sought answers on it from claiments, its been to either ignore the questions or do a bit of clever 'Do not put God to the test' flip floppery. It would be great, if there was a HONEST person about the place, who could simply answer some questions on their experience. You know what I mean?

Like I said, I believe that we all do it to a certain degree when we are praying earnestly, we are just not aware of it when it happens. As for those who claim to do it as a means to show off, I too wait with bated breath to hear what they have to say about the experience. Is it that they speak other languages of mankind? Or is it what the Word says it is, i.e. an unknown tongue? Unknown to all except God. The Spirit's language if you will.

JimiTime

Soul Winner wrote: »

Like I said, I believe that we all do it to a certain degree when we are praying earnestly, we are just not aware of it when it happens. As for those who claim to do it as a means to show off, I too wait with bated breath to hear what they have to say about the experience. Is it that they speak other languages of mankind? Or is it what the Word says it is, i.e. an unknown tongue? Unknown to all except God. The Spirit's language if you will.

Or do they themselves know what they're saying. Can they do it at will, i.e. Simply decide to do it.

UB Dude

From what 've seen this looks to be the most spurious of spiritual gifts. I had read once that the 'gift of tongues' was in fact meant to be the ability to express yourself, whether that be through poetry, song, public speaking etc. but the nonsensical ramblings of an emotionally overwrought religious manic can hardly be said to be reflective of divinity. I met a dude once that spoke in tongues. he didn't do it as part of a public display, it usually overcame him during times of intense emotion - usually anger. But I have to say, when he did it, it sounded cool - like a real language. Every other instance i've seen online simply seems like chancers pulling one over on gullible Yanks - no offense intended.
St. Paul's point is good on this sort of thing, if you can't understand it what good is it?

JimiTime

UB Dude wrote: »

From what 've seen this looks to be the most spurious of spiritual gifts. I had read once that the 'gift of tongues' was in fact meant to be the ability to express yourself, whether that be through poetry, song, public speaking etc. but the nonsensical ramblings of an emotionally overwrought religious manic can hardly be said to be reflective of divinity. I met a dude once that spoke in tongues. he didn't do it as part of a public display, it usually overcame him during times of intense emotion - usually anger. But I have to say, when he did it, it sounded cool - like a real language. Every other instance i've seen online simply seems like chancers pulling one over on gullible Yanks - no offense intended.

Thats the thing, just because one persons 'tongues' are discredited does not discredit ALL claims. What I have never come accross though in my rather limited religious congregational exposure, is anything I could consider a 'gift'. I would simply like to go and question people who claim this gift, and see what I can discover.

St. Paul's point is good on this sort of thing, if you can't understand it what good is it?

Indeed. The thing with congregations losing the plot, running up and down and talking jibberish is a non-starter for me. I often hear in the 'language' of the jibberish, a certain phrase or sylabel that seems to always be present too. E.G. It goes like, 'SHAMANA jiberish, SHAMANA jibberish'. It reminds me of if I pretend to speak another language, I return to a certain syllabal.

Of course, Paul did say tongues were a personal thing unless someone was present to interpret a message. Prophecy is what he said was for the gathering.

Fanny Cradock

JimiTime wrote: »

As the title says, is there anyone here who speaks in tongues. I would like to ask some questions about it, and I'm going to be upfront and honest about my direction. I call shenannigans. Not on its biblical basis, as there is biblical basis for such a thing. I however, call shenannigans on those who say they do it. Like Joe Coleman and his, 'She's indescribably, just beautiful' rubbish with his 'visions', this kind of ambiguity befalls any claims of tongues I see.

Here is my theory. Of all the gifts of spirit described by Paul, 'Tongues' is probably the easiest one to fake. Though the amount of fake 'healers' etc would probably beg to differ. Anyway, it seems quite easy to just babel away and call it a spriritual gift. One can even decieve oneself out of a desire to 'feel' like God is in you etc. So is there anyone who has experience with this gift, that is willing to put themselves up for scrutiny here? I shall NOT mock (Its something I don't find funny tbh), and I promise that I shall be honest, respectful, but also very direct. Maybe play a bit of Devils advocate at times. I was once alot more open to the possibility of the claims of tongues being true, but I've since slipped to the 'Its gibberish' side of the fence from the different forums I've visited refusal (or simply ignore) to take questions on it. It would be great if anyone here who experiences it could be open to a skeptics (A skeptic with faith, who is VERY open to the idea, and believes that there IS a biblical basis for it) questioning it.

Perhaps you are getting confused between tongues and prophecy?

Anyway, the one experience I have had never resulted in blabbering and was rather more personal. Interestingly, I know of one person that the first time they spoke in tongues was in the privacy of their own home. So no New Wine influence. OTOH, I also know of somebody who was ultra-sceptical about the HS manifesting itself in a person in any overt manner - be it in the form of tongues or whatever - but during one event they found themselves bounding up and down the aisle braying like some farm-yard animal. I believe that the experience was, and remains, a source of joy to them.

Perhaps PDN will share some experiences from the Pentecostal church when he is back from his trip.

antiskeptic

JimiTime wrote: »

Indeed. The thing with congregations losing the plot, running up and down and talking jibberish is a non-starter for me...

You sound like Wicknight..

antiskeptic

Whatever about tongues spoken (of which I've heard much), has anyone ever heard tongues being translated (of which I've heard nowt)?

JimiTime

antiskeptic wrote: »

You sound like Wicknight..

How do you know, have you heard me talk?:p

antiskeptic wrote: »

Whatever about tongues spoken (of which I've heard much), has anyone ever heard tongues being translated (of which I've heard nowt)?

Even interpretation can be bogus though when you think of it.

Tongue: Shamana, heidl biggo got gum fahas shamana.
Interpreter: Ehh, Jesus is Lord, all power and glory are in him.
Congregation: Amen.

Its why I'd like to ask the questions of someone who actually claims to HAVE the gift. Sure, people can witness it. You can do that on Youtube. I want to work out if its horsesh!te or not, that is the key here. Is what we witness just nonsense, or is it genuine work of the spirit.

Soul Winner

JimiTime wrote: »

How do you know, have you heard me talk?:p



Even interpretation can be bogus though when you think of it.

Tongue: Shamana, heidl biggo got gum fahas shamana.
Interpreter: Ehh, Jesus is Lord, all power and glory are in him.
Congregation: Amen.

Its why I'd like to ask the questions of someone who actually claims to HAVE the gift. Sure, people can witness it. You can do that on Youtube. I want to work out if its horsesh!te or not, that is the key here. Is what we witness just nonsense, or is it genuine work of the spirit.

It is a genuine work of the Spirit when it happens for real but whether every claim that it happened is a genuine work of the Spirit is true or not is another thing. I doubt that every claim is, especially if the claimant is deliberately trying to it to show off. If it is a genuine work of the Spirit then it can't be turned on and off like a tap. It would be like a person looking back to see if he was being humble at some point, a truly humble person doesn't look back to see if they were. But in saying that, that does not mean that it doesn't actually happen to some people as a genuine experience some of the time.

JimiTime

Soul Winner wrote: »

It is a genuine work of the Spirit when it happens for real but whether every claim that it happened is a genuine work of the Spirit is true or not is another thing.

All I need is ONE case to scrutinise to satisfaction to convince me that it is happening today. 'Test the spirits'.

If it is a genuine work of the Spirit then it can't be turned on and off like a tap.

I think PDN said he prayed in tongues, and it sounded like he could choose to or not. I asked for clarification, but never got it. He probably just missed the post. That was some time ago.

Fanny Cradock

JimiTime wrote: »

I think PDN said he prayed in tongues, and it sounded like he could choose to or not. I asked for clarification, but never got it. He probably just missed the post. That was some time ago.

You might PM him. I would imagine that after he gets back he will have a stack of old threads to get through and he might miss this one too.

santing

I speak English, Dutch, German and a bit of French... Is that enough tongues?

JimiTime

santing wrote: »

I speak English, Dutch, German and a bit of French... Is that enough tongues?

If you never learned the languages and just start speaking the languages, then yes. It would then move onto someone who claims to be speaking the non-earthly 'spirit language'.

santing

JimiTime wrote: »

If you never learned the languages and just start speaking the languages, then yes. It would then move onto someone who claims to be speaking the non-earthly 'spirit language'.

That's an interesting observation? Since when can a spiritual gift / gift of the Spirit not been trained or learned? Does that mean that everyone with degree in Divinity or passing through a Bible COllege are "fake"?

The NT gives indeed examples of miraculously speaking in a language/dialect ... but it doesn't say that miraculously speaking a dialect is the only valid form!

BTW, as the NT talks about both the plural and the singular (speaking in a tongue/language/dialect) it can be assumed that one person can never speak in tongues, but always speaks a tongue...

JimiTime

santing wrote: »

That's an interesting observation? Since when can a spiritual gift / gift of the Spirit not been trained or learned? Does that mean that everyone with degree in Divinity or passing through a Bible COllege are "fake"?

Ey? You have seriously lost me.

The NT gives indeed examples of miraculously speaking in a language/dialect

Indeed it does.

... but it doesn't say that miraculously speaking a dialect is the only valid form!

form of what?

BTW, as the NT talks about both the plural and the singular (speaking in a tongue/language/dialect) it can be assumed that one person can never speak in tongues, but always speaks a tongue...

Its either here nor there to the question I'm asking. Namely, the claim of some people to a manifestation of the holy spirit in the form of speaking in a tongue unlearned.

Fanny Cradock

You might find this Ship of Fools thread of interest, Jimi.

ISAW

Here is some report i came across when looking up religious affiliations in the stalin pol pol atheistic regimes murders thread

http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-topline.pdf

page 64
Q.42e Please tell me how often you do each of the following. First, how often do you
e. speak or pray in tongues
At least once a week
Once or twice a month
Several times a year
Seldom Never
Don’t know/Refused
Total
Total Christian 9 2 2 6 77 4 100
Evangelical churches 11 3 2 6 77 3 100
Mainline churches 4 1 1 5 84 4 100
Historically Black churches 14 4 2 8 69 3 100
Catholic 9 2 2 6 75 5 100
Mormon 4 1 1 5 86 4 100
Orthodox 12 3 3 6 66 11 100
Jehovah’s Witness 4 1 1 2 88 4 100
Other Christian 4 1 0 2 63 31 100

given Orthodox may be less than one per cent in the US so rule them out as a statistical anomaly, you still have 14 per cent of black and 11 per cent of evangelicals saying they do it once a week!

The sample was about 35,000 people. That at the very least is hundreds of people. As the OP asked it should be possible to identify one of them and ask them what they mean by "speak in tongues"

PDN

I pray in tongues regularly, as do millions of other Christians. And, yes, I choose whether to do so or not. This is a form of private prayer that I find to be very satisying and beneficial.

There is also a form of speaking in tongues that occurs in public worship settings - something I've never done mysel but have often witnessed. In these cases the tongues is generally interpreted into English and acts as a type of prophecy, where God is speaking to Christians.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

PDN

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It is not "babble", nor do I understand it. There is no effort as such, but then I don't find much effort in speaking English.

The point of praying in tongues is that it is believed to be the Holy Spirit praying through you.

Teferi

PDN wrote: »

It is not "babble", nor do I understand it. There is no effort as such, but then I don't find much effort in speaking English.

The point of praying in tongues is that it is believed to be the Holy Spirit praying through you.

Any chance you could record some of it?

PDN

Teferi wrote: »

Any chance you could record some of it?

No.

Teferi

PDN wrote: »

No.

Why not?

Soul Winner

Teferi wrote: »

Why not?

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret..." Matthew 6:6

PDN

Teferi wrote: »

Why not?

For the same reason I would refuse to record me and my wife having sex for your curiosity.

My prayer is something intimate between me and God. Surely you, as a Christian, understand that?

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

I pray in tongues regularly, as do millions of other Christians. And, yes, I choose whether to do so or not. This is a form of private prayer that I find to be very satisying and beneficial.

Can you elaborate on the 'very satisfying' and 'beneficial'? Also, have you an opinion on why of all the gifts of spirit Paul talks about, tongues, arguably the lesser gift of them all, seems to be rife while healing, prophecy etc seems to be extremely rare?

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the 'very satisfying' and 'beneficial'? Also, have you an opinion on why of all the gifts of spirit Paul talks about, tongues, arguably the lesser gift of them all, seems to be rife while healing, prophecy etc seems to be extremely rare?

I don't believe the ministry gift of delivering a message from God in tongues is rife - I know that in our church healing and prophecy would be more common.

I find praying in tongues to be satisfying and beneficial in that it encourages people to spend more time in prayer, and leaves you feeling fulfilled in that you know your prayerts have 'hit the spot' since the Holy Spirit has been praying through you.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

I don't believe the ministry gift of delivering a message from God in tongues is rife

'Delivering a message'? Is it understandable then? The tongues being referred to have been prayers which you have said you don't understand no?

I see alot of folk in revivalist churches do this type of 'tongues', rather than the interpretted kind.

- I know that in our church healing and prophecy would be more common.

Could you give me examples of healings and prophecies experienced at your church? Just to assure you, I wish to scrutinise with the ambition of being convinced of the spirits work. I wholeheartedly believe that such things occurred back in Apostolic times, but I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas with regards to such claims these days. Mainly due to the amount of charlatans, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

I find praying in tongues to be satisfying and beneficial in that it encourages people to spend more time in prayer, and leaves you feeling fulfilled in that you know your prayerts have 'hit the spot' since the Holy Spirit has been praying through you.

Do you become overcome with joy or anything? Or is it the same as kneeling by your bedside praying in English, just in a different 'tongue'?

I appreciate your input.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

'Delivering a message'? Is it understandable then? The tongues being referred to have been prayers which you have said you don't understand no?

I see alot of folk in revivalist churches do this type of 'tongues', rather than the interpretted kind.

Jimi, you need to understand that spiritual gifts (which are only exercised by some Christians) also have an aspect that is available to all Christians. So, all Christians are expected to have faith and knowledge - but not all Christians have the spiritual gifts of faith and knowledge as described in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12.

So, the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues, as I understand it, is when a Christians speaks forth a message from God to the Church in an unknown tongue which someone else then interprets into English (exercising the gift of interpretation of tongues). This is quite distinct from someone praying to God in tongues in private (when no interpretation occurs).

Could you give me examples of healings and prophecies experienced at your church? Just to assure you, I wish to scrutinise with the ambition of being convinced of the spirits work. I wholeheartedly believe that such things occurred back in Apostolic times, but I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas with regards to such claims these days. Mainly due to the amount of charlatans, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

I've heard prophecies that were fairly general, including encouragement and sometimes warnings. I heard one guy, in 1983, prophecy the collapse of the Soviet Union in 7 years time. I've also heard very specific prophecies given to people in amazing detail - such as calling them by their full names and telling them their date of birth where the speaker had never met them before.

As for healings, we've seen some fairly dramatic incidences where people had been diagnosed with cancer, then got prayed for, then went back to the doctor who said they must have made a mistake because the x-rays are clear. Just three weeks ago I prayed with a former heroin addict who has had hepititis and HIV for a long time. He contacted me last week to say that his latest blood tests had come back totally negative for both diseases. Of course I must balance that by stressing that most people we pray for don't get healed. Miracles, by their very nature, are unusual events.

Do you become overcome with joy or anything? Or is it the same as kneeling by your bedside praying in English, just in a different 'tongue'?

I appreciate your input.

Actually I often get overcome with joy when I'm praying in English!

But when I pray in tongues I tend to get a feeling afterwards of quiet satisfaction - that the thing I prayed for has been sorted. And often I discover afterwards that is the case.