Parking Summons

Stealthirl

got a summons for the parking in liffey valley

car was parked where trafic sign number RUS 018 [restricted parking] was provided during a period when such parking was prohibited in contravention of artical 37[2][a] of the RTA 97.contrary to section 35[5] of the RTA 94 and section 102 of the RTA 61[as amended by section 18 of the RTA06]

i looked up artical 37[2][a] of the RTA 97

37. (1) A vehicle shall not be parked during a period which may be indicated on an information plate, on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 007 [single yellow line] has been provided.


(2) ( a ) Subject to paragraph (b), where traffic sign number RUS 018 [Restricted Parking] is provided a vehicle may only be parked for the length of time and, where appropriate, during the period, indicated on the information plate accompanying the sign.


( b ) Subject to article 43(3), where a vehicle is removed from a place in respect of which paragraph (a) applies it may not be parked again in that place within one hour of its removal during the period when the restriction is in force.


(3) ( a ) Subject to paragraphs (b) and (c), a vehicle, other than a large public service vehicle, shall not be parked where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking] accompanied by an information plate containing the words "Except Buses - Ach Amháin Busanna" is provided.

( b ) (i) The restriction referred to in paragraph (a) may be applied for a specific period which shall be indicated on an information plate.


(ii) A large public service vehicle parked in accordance with paragraph (a) shall not be parked for a period exceeding one hour from the commencement of such parking.


( c ) Where a large public service vehicle, having been parked in that portion of a roadway where the restriction as provided for in paragraph (b) applies, leaves, it shall not be parked again in that portion of the roadway within one hour of leaving while the restriction applies.


(4) Where a vehicle is parked in a parking place which is the subject of a provision contained in bye-laws made under section 36 of the Act of 1994 it shall only be parked in accordance with such a provision.


(5) Where traffic sign number RRM 011, RRM 012, RRM 013 or RRM 014 [Parking Bays] is provided, a vehicle must be parked within the limits of the parking bay.
Restrictions on Parking Heavy Goods Vehicles

i was parked where bikes are ment to park but never do.its here for those that know it



heres the bay


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

the sigh



and the 1 on the way in


now i parked there alot of times and never ever have i been told i cant or got a sticker in the window.never mind been clamped.also why send me a summions and not just give me an ot the spot fine or clamp me ?


Any one got any help or advice ?

corktina

if you werent on a bike, Id say you were done bang to rights...

Possedion

strange straight to summons and not a fine, maybe it was the Garda?
I think the security there get pi$$ed with people parking in wrong places.
e.g. Handicapped parking spots a regular thing, not to mention the tools parking in parent parking areas.

Abelloid

Maybe they let you off with it a few times but then decided you were taking the piss.

Stealthirl

corktina wrote: »

if you werent on a bike, Id say you were done bang to rights...

so wheres the restricted parking sigh RUS 018 ? or the info sigh that should accompany it ?
shurely the fact it is privet property means the clamers are responsabell not the gaurds ?

Stealthirl

Possedion wrote: »

strange straight to summons and not a fine, maybe it was the Garda?
I think the security there get pi$$ed with people parking in wrong places.
e.g. Handicapped parking spots a regular thing, not to mention the tools parking in parent parking areas.

i agree with u there along with cars parked on the footpath.but those bike bays are NEVER used by bikes t hey park right up at the door.

enda1

Seems a bit mad OP alright.

Is it not private property?

Abelloid

...but yeah, you should have been fined first, seems odd to go straight to summons.

Possedion

betafrog wrote: »

Well the sign says parking in marked bays only, you parked in a bay that wasn't marked for "Car" parking. I would imagine you're pretty screwed.

*Puts on asshole hat*
And to be honest I hope you do get done, ****ing hate people that can't be arsed parking properly.

yeah how lazy are some people...this country has really bad mannerisms when it comes to public car parks. dicks.

Stealthirl

betafrog wrote: »

Well the sign says parking in marked bays only, you parked in a bay that wasn't marked for "Car" parking. I would imagine you're pretty screwed.

*Puts on asshole hat*
And to be honest I hope you do get done, ****ing hate people that can't be arsed parking properly.

so the fact it was a real busy day there and i have a medical condition doseant matter ?
for the record i could get a disability permit but i rather some one who needed it got it and used those spaces so i just park as close as i can to where im going

Stealthirl

enda1 wrote: »

Seems a bit mad OP alright.

Is it not private property?

yup i think it is as they can lock the carpark and also the spaces are there to entice customers into the shop

Possedion

Stealthirl wrote: »

i agree with u there along with cars parked on the footpath.but those bike bays are NEVER used by bikes t hey park right up at the door.

ok fair enough, but its up to them to do the bikers as well.
I hate tools parking in disabled spots, really annoying.

Abelloid

Stealthirl wrote: »

so the fact it was a real busy day there and i have a medical condition doseant matter ?
for the record i could get a disability permit but i rather some one who needed it got it and used those spaces so i just park as close as i can to where im going

If you qualify why wouldn't you get a badge? I bet there was an empty space that day.

Eoin

I had no idea you could get a summons for a parking issue in a private car park

Stealthirl

Possedion wrote: »

ok fair enough, but its up to them to do the bikers as well.
I hate tools parking in disabled spots, really annoying.

same here hence why i never got a permit.parking is a joke in liffey valley.cars still park where i was[i have since started geting a lift over] in trolly bays ect only recently with the new yellow lines have cars stoped parking on the foothpath

Stealthirl

JustinOval wrote: »

If you qualify why wouldn't you get a badge? I bet there was an empty space that day.

as i said id rather see someone the realy needed the space use it.i can still walk others cant.i only damaged my hip and back when i was younger and walking distance can cause me pain.

Possedion

Stealthirl wrote: »

as i said id rather see someone the realy needed the space use it.i can still walk others cant.i only damaged my hip and back when i was younger and walking distance can cause me pain.

u should get a permit, u could always try that line with them if they pursue you.
however I am surprised they were able to straight issue a summons.
not sure if the judge would be impressed with that course of action.

Stealthirl

Possedion wrote: »

u should get a permit, u could always try that line with them if they pursue you.
however I am surprised they were able to straight issue a summons.
not sure if the judge would be impressed with that course of action.

i may well after this.just get me how some people have them and they can move about with out issue.i have seen some people even use permits with out the disabeled person even in the car :mad:

so am i,i thought a parking tickit or a clamp on the day woild have been enought not a summons

MarkR

Does the summons actually say the car park? Never heard of a summons for parking on private property.

Shame they don't do it more often to be honest. Parking is shocking around many retail parks.

Eoin

Again - is this not a private car park? How can you get a summons for this?

This is from citizensinformation.ie

Private car parks

Private car parks are not regulated by the Government in any way. That is to say, they are privately owned and revenue earned from parking in these car parks goes directly to the owners and not your local authority. The prices charged in private car parks vary from place to place, ranging from about 80 cent to 2.50 euro per hour. Prices are determined by the car park owner. Prices charged by a local authority in its car parks will be decided by the authority itself.

Stealthirl

MarkR wrote: »

Does the summons actually say the car park? Never heard of a summons for parking on private property.

Shame they don't do it more often to be honest. Parking is shocking around many retail parks.

yup it has liffey valley shopping center on it.

Possedion

perhaps they did send a fine and it was lost...

Stealthirl

eoin wrote: »

Again - is this not a private car park? How can you get a summons for this?

exactly what i was thinking as the car park can be locked,is partoled by there security staff,is controled by a clamping company and the spaces are there to entice customs in to the center.

or dose anyone know how it could be described as a public carpark ?


i was going to go to the station and ask to speak to the sargent ?

Digipass

it seems to be Private property.
What does the summons say in regards to location.....it should read something like ...."you did park contrary to section..........at..............a public place."

Stealthirl

Digipass wrote: »

it seems to be Private property.
What does the summons say in regards to location.....it should read something like ...."you did park contrary to section..........at..............a public place."

word for word

on 17/1/2010 at liffey valley shopping center clondalkin dublin 22 a public place in the said district court area of dublin metropolitan district,where the registered owener of vehical registration number ******** whitch was parked where trafic sign number RUS 018 [restricted parking] was provided during a period when such parking was prohibited in contravention of artical 37[2][a] of the RTA 97.contrary to section 35[5] of the RTA 94 and section 102 of the RTA 61[as amended by section 18 of the RTA06]

Max Power1

Possedion wrote: »

not to mention the tools parking in parent parking areas.

Can they do anything about that though? There are permits for the disabled spaces alright but how does one identify who is a "tool" from a parent?

Stealthirl

Max Power1 wrote: »

Can they do anything about that though? There are permits for the disabled spaces alright but how does one identify who is a "tool" from a parent?

they could just look for ppl that have kids with them ?

Possedion

Max Power1 wrote: »

Can they do anything about that though? There are permits for the disabled spaces alright but how does one identify who is a "tool" from a parent?

child seats are a big give away as well...you can also see the tools when they park, with ah no children, but its ok I am a TOOL

ArphaRima

I cant say I have much sympathy. You were parked in a spot clearly marked for motorbikes. You did not park a motorbike.
I'm not sure what your argument is.

As for a summons. That seems excessive. It should only be a fine/clamp release fee from the operator of that carpark. Perhaps a passing Garda decided to get you, possibly incorrectly.

As for parent and child parking spots. I always park in those. I will not be discriminated against for not having a kid. Disabled spots, yes. Parent spots, no. I dont agree with them. So I dont abide by them.
As far as I have seen they have no basis in law. Controversial perhaps, but the day I do have kids I will still be braving the carpark like everybody else.

Zubeneschamali

fluffer wrote: »

As for parent and child parking spots. I always park in those.

Please do post again when you get clamped, so that we can have a good laugh.

lynchie

Stealthirl wrote: »

word for word

on 17/1/2010 at liffey valley shopping center clondalkin dublin 22 a public place in the said district court area of dublin metropolitan district,where the registered owener of vehical registration number ******** whitch was parked where trafic sign number RUS 018 [restricted parking] was provided during a period when such parking was prohibited in contravention of artical 37[2][a] of the RTA 97.contrary to section 35[5] of the RTA 94 and section 102 of the RTA 61[as amended by section 18 of the RTA06]

My understanding of it is as follows:
Section 35 is
The Minister may make regulations for the general regulation and control of traffic (including the parking of vehicles) and pedestrians in public places.

RTA 61 defines public places as

"public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Liffey valley management provide you with a right to use their car parks therefore the public have access to them and are hence covered under the public places interpretation under the RTA. Therefore the gardai can enforce parking in spots that are restrcited to bikes or even can enforce parking on doulbe yellows inside the car park should they wish.

Guy:Incognito

fluffer wrote: »

As for parent and child parking spots. I always park in those. I will not be discriminated against for not having a kid. Disabled spots, yes. Parent spots, no. I dont agree with them. So I dont abide by them.
As far as I have seen they have no basis in law. Controversial perhaps, but the day I do have kids I will still be braving the carpark like everybody else.

We're not talking about anything having a basis in law. The people who own the land own the car park, they make the rules. If you drive a Golf and they put up a sign saying all Golfs have to prk in the furthest section from the door then tough, their car park. You want to use a private car park, you obey their rules.
It's like you inviting me to your house and me swanning in and doing whatever I like, regardless of what you want.


Plus, people whinging about havign their car doors hit by kids swinging doors open in their parents cars can't have it both ways.

ardmacha

Therefore the gardai can enforce parking in spots that are restrcited to bikes or even can enforce parking on doulbe yellows inside the car park should they wish.

This would presuppose that appropriate signage was used, which is not always the case in private car parks.

Plus, people whinging about havign their car doors hit by kids swinging doors open in their parents cars can't have it both ways.

People do not have the right to vandalise your car or behave without due care, even if you are a tool.

Guy:Incognito

ardmacha wrote: »

People do not have the right to vandalise your car or behave without due care, even if you are a tool.

Who said anything about people vandalising cars

Theres been loads of people on here givign out abotu people with kids parkign beside them and knocking against their cars when taking out kids or kids openign doors in to their cars. Shopping centres give them their own spaces then people whinge about that too.


People really need to get something important to occupy their lives with.

jimmycrackcorm

I've seen the guards doing cars parked in disabled basis in Liffey valley. I was surprised as I had thought it would have been classed as private parking.

dynamick

Stealthirl wrote: »

word for word

on 17/1/2010 at liffey valley shopping center clondalkin dublin 22 a public place in the said district court area of dublin metropolitan district,where the registered owener of vehical registration number ******** whitch was parked where trafic sign number RUS 018 [restricted parking] was provided during a period when such parking was prohibited in contravention of artical 37[2][a] of the RTA 97.contrary to section 35[5] of the RTA 94 and section 102 of the RTA 61[as amended by section 18 of the RTA06]

RUS 018 is a parking sign as follows:

You don't have a photo of this sign. Does it exist? If the sign is not there then you haven't broken that law and can't be fined.

Also, it has to be accompanied by some text saying the times when parking is forbidden.

Stealthirl

dynamick wrote: »

RUS 018 is a parking sign as follows:

You don't have a photo of this sign. Does it exist? If the sign is not there then you haven't broken that law and can't be fined.

Also, it has to be accompanied by some text saying the times when parking is forbidden.

nope there was none
the yellow sign is the only one near the area

dynamick

I would go to court and show the photos.

Anan1

dynamick wrote: »

I would go to court and show the photos.

I'd be quite interested to hear how that worked out.

CreepingDeath

Stealthirl wrote: »

nope there was none
the yellow sign is the only one near the area

You're trying to defeat the spirit of the law with the letter of the law.
You know you're in the wrong.

Yes, you should've been clamped rather than receive a summons, but maybe they ran out of clamps that day.

Eoin

I'd be interested to know exactly who issued the summons. This might be a car park that's publicly accessible, but it's still operated privately. I don't like the idea of them being able to issue a summons.

mgbgt1978

have to agree with Eoin here. Who actually issued this summons ?
Is there a guard's name on the summons ?
As pointed out earlier ther are very specific signs which local authorities must use to indicate the current rules in a particular place.
By the way IF a guard can issue a parking ticket on privately owned land then then by definition that means it is treated the same as public land and therefore the private clampers cannot operate there.

Our man in Havana

It is a case of Liffey Valley having their cake and eating it too.

There is no RUS 018 visible so no offence is committed. Fight them all the way.

Stealthirl

eoin wrote: »

I'd be interested to know exactly who issued the summons. This might be a car park that's publicly accessible, but it's still operated privately. I don't like the idea of them being able to issue a summons.

it was a Guard that gave it.
even the Guard that delivered it said it was ridiculis [sp] and the its Guards like him that give the rest of us a bad name.

to be ob the safe side im geting a solicitor anyway.

Johnny Utah

lynchie wrote: »

My understanding of it is as follows:
Section 35 is
The Minister may make regulations for the general regulation and control of traffic (including the parking of vehicles) and pedestrians in public places.

RTA 61 defines public places as

"public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Liffey valley management provide you with a right to use their car parks therefore the public have access to them and are hence covered under the public places interpretation under the RTA. Therefore the gardai can enforce parking in spots that are restrcited to bikes or even can enforce parking on doulbe yellows inside the car park should they wish.

I also agree with Eoin above. From the op's photos, it is clear that there is no trafic sign number RUS 018 in the vicinty where he parked. Therefore, no law was broken.

Michael 09

Possedion wrote: »

not to mention the tools parking in parent parking areas.

Those parent parking areas are my pet hate.

Why do parents need to park closer to the door? Any one with a baby has a buggy.

whats the age limit on it?

If i drive over with my mother can i park there?

Do i need a 'baby on board' sticker to park there?

I make a point of parking there regularly because it's a load of b****x so you're not a tool if you park there, you're a tool if you don't!!

-Chris-

Michael 09 wrote: »

Those parent parking areas are my pet hate.

Why do parents need to park closer to the door? Any one with a baby has a buggy.

whats the age limit on it?

If i drive over with my mother can i park there?

Do i need a 'baby on board' sticker to park there?

I make a point of parking there regularly because it's a load of b****x so you're not a tool if you park there, you're a tool if you don't!!

This line of discussion is going to drag the thread off-topic. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this further please.

Cabaal

Stealthirl wrote: »

so the fact it was a real busy day there and i have a medical condition doseant matter ?
for the record i could get a disability permit but i rather some one who needed it got it and used those spaces so i just park as close as i can to where im going

Clearly you think your are in some way "different" and as such entitled to be treated different so I would suggest you get a disability permit instead of complaining when people don't allow you to be different and get special treatment.

Until then however you have no right to park in bike bays, wheelchair bays or anywhere you want.

Even if you have a disability permit that doesn't give you any right to just throw your car anywhere you want such as in bike bays...motorbike or cycle bikes.

Its not your call to decided that parking in those bays is ok, its not your property and those bays are very clearly labeled for something else.

Abelloid

Michael 09 wrote: »

Those parent parking areas are my pet hate.

Why do parents need to park closer to the door? Any one with a baby has a buggy.

whats the age limit on it?

If i drive over with my mother can i park there?

Do i need a 'baby on board' sticker to park there?

I make a point of parking there regularly because it's a load of b****x so you're not a tool if you park there, you're a tool if you don't!!

Parents with children aren't keen on walking through busy car parks with a couple of toddlers in tow and maybe a trolley full of shopping for (what I thought were) obvious reasons. It really is pretty simple.

-Chris-

OK, you obviously want to discuss this further. New thread started here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055932020

This thread is discussing the legalities of parking, signage, issuing summons for parking on private land etc. Rants about inconsiderate parking can go in the inconsiderate parking thread and rants/opinions about the use of "parent & child" spaces can go in the thread above.

SgtBob

Stealth had the case dismissed.

Apparently the garda in question, who issued the summons, came into court and couldn't give any definite answers to any of the questions.

So when the issue on the Parking sign in the summons came up, he was stumped; so case dismissed.