Heysel disaster 25th anniversary

Mr. Presentable

Yup, 25 years ago today 39 Juventus supporters died when a wall collapsed as they tried to escape rampaging opposition fans.

Belgium pays tribute

Juventus remembers

Liverpool also

#15

A tragedy and a disgrace.

Hard to read through the list of names - an 11 year old boy was among the dead.

Shocking that those Liverpool fans received such little punishment for their cowardly and despicable actions that day.

Mr Alan

absolute tragedy

hitman79

#15 wrote: »

A tragedy and a disgrace.

Hard to read through the list of names - an 11 year old boy was among the dead.

Shocking that those Liverpool fans received such little punishment for their cowardly and despicable actions that day.

RIP 39 Juventus fans.

Dempsey

All I want to know is. who was the fúcking idiot that decided the match should be played that day?

RIP 39 Juventus fans

Le King

#15 wrote: »

A tragedy and a disgrace.

Hard to read through the list of names - an 11 year old boy was among the dead.

Shocking that those Liverpool fans received such little punishment for their cowardly and despicable actions that day.

100%.

Cowardly and such a disgrace those Liverpool fans were to the world of football.

RIP 39 Juve fans.

It makes my skin boil at the scum from Liverpool that were in Brussels on that day. No other word but absolute scum.

DazMarz

A proper case of "there but for the grace of God go I"... Those 39 football fans went out for a day to watch their beloved team playing in a European Cup Final... those 39 never came home. They died a violent and horrible death, in a country miles away from their own home. It could have happened to anyone who followed/follows football and those poor souls should never be forgotten.

R.I.P.

citytillidie

#15 wrote: »

A tragedy and a disgrace.

Hard to read through the list of names - an 11 year old boy was among the dead.

Shocking that those Liverpool fans received such little punishment for their cowardly and despicable actions that day.

Fans were sent to prision for their part in what happened that day

Osu wrote: »

100%.

Cowardly and such a disgrace those Liverpool fans were to the world of football.

RIP 39 Juve fans.

It makes my skin boil at the scum from Liverpool that were in Brussels on that day. No other word but absolute scum.

I know this does not excuse it but have you researched what set this up from the year before. Liverpool fans being attacked in Rome after beating Roma in the European Cup final?

One 13 year old needing 200 stitches in his fave alone.

Typical United fans can't let anything go with out getting their digs in.

Even though they are not whiter than white ask the Family of Crystal Palace fan Paul Nixon

Heysel Stadium Disaster (The beginning of the end for British Hooligans)


Taken at their most simple level, the events of Wednesday, 29 May, 1985, are as stark as they are horrifying: at the European Cup Final, the most prestigious occasion in the European football calendar, Liverpool supporters charged Juventus supporters, causing 39 deaths.
The circumstances under which this dreadful event occurred - while nonetheless horrifying - reveal a far more complex set of causes, and an insight into terrace culture at the height of the football hooligan phenomenon.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]1984 - Liverpool v AS Roma, Rome[/FONT]
It can be argued that the Heysel Stadium Tragedy really began the year before. Liverpool, perhaps the greatest club side England has ever produced, had reached the European Cup Final for the fourth time in their history. Unusually, they were to start the match as underdogs, as by a strange quirk, the Final was to be held on the home ground of their opponents, AS Roma.


Roma were confident of victory. However, after a dour, tense game, Liverpool won in a penalty shoot-out. The next day, the English press carried page after page of pictures of the winning side, and dozens of pictures of delirious 'Scousers' ('Scouser' being a slang term for a native of Liverpool) dancing in the Trevi fountain. What received rather less coverage was the roaming scooter gangs hunting down Liverpool supporters, stabbing and slashing dozens, many of whom were family groups returning to hotels in the area. One 13-year-old boy was almost ripped apart, needing 200 stitches in his face alone. Many hoteliers refused to let their English guests in, either out of spite or for fear of subsequent attacks on their premises. There was little protection from the Police, who routinely attacked and robbed English supporters in revenge for the defeat of the local team. Before the match, stewards and gate attendants had taken hundreds of watches, cameras and items of jewellery from visiting supporters. That night, many desperate English fans, deserted by Italian coach drivers booked to drive them to Rome airport, sought sanctuary at the British Embassy.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Scores To Settle - Terrace Culture In The 1980s[/FONT]
There have been countless attempts to rationalise football hooliganism. Many cite what is seen as the inherent violence of the English working class. Others argue that somehow fighting is in the gene pool - a nation that has sent almost every generation of its men folk to war throughout antiquity has produced a social stratum naturally predisposed to violent disorder. It could simply be that if 40,000 people are crammed into one place and given even the slenderest reason to confront each other, there will be a small proportion that will do so, and a greater proportion that will allow themselves to be drawn in.


Whatever the reasons, by the mid-1980s violence was endemic in and around football grounds throughout England. With little closed-circuit television and largely indifferent policing, hooligan 'firms' had carte blanche to set about each other wherever they met. Indeed, terrace violence had attained a certain glamour with the screening of a famous documentary - Hooligan - which followed the exploits of West Ham's Inter City Firm. At Upton Park, the home of West Ham, a brisk trade in t-shirts bearing the legend 'You've Seen The Film - Now Meet The Stars' sprung up. West Ham were also responsible for the introduction of 'calling cards'. These cheery items, bearing the legend 'Congratulations. You Have Just Met The ICF - Inter City Firm, West Ham' were pinned to the clothes of unconscious and occasionally lifeless victims. Enterprising Cockney hooligans eventually patented the name 'ICF' and made a small fortune from its use.
Although the major London firms of West Ham, Millwall and Chelsea attracted the most media attention, almost any club was capable of attracting hundreds if not thousands of willing combatants. Leeds United were particularly notorious, as were Newcastle United, Cardiff City, Swansea City, and the Sheffield and Manchester clubs. Violence between Cardiff and Swansea was so bad that for a while it seemed likely that the fixture would be deleted from the season's programme altogether, and the result decided by the Pools panel. In Cambridge, city councillors attempted to ban visiting supporters after Millwall wrecked the city centre. Luton Town went one step further and actually did ban opposing supporters, simultaneously introducing an identity card scheme for home fans after Millwall fans rioted through their town. Every level of the game was affected: there were widespread disturbances when Leyton Orient played Slough. These were not random events, either. There was a recognised pecking order running from 'Generals' at the top to 'Under 5's' or 'Youth Firms' of junior thugs at the bottom. 'Spotters' were employed to report on the movements of opposing supporters. Indeed, a journalist commenting on Arsenal's Gooners at the time wrote 'They looked like an army - and after the game went into action like one'. The banning of alcohol from grounds did little to stem the violence. Injecting oranges with vodka was one imaginative solution. Others simply drank outside the ground or took drugs. Most were happy enough to 'mix it' while completely sober.
Despite the prevailing terrace culture, Liverpool supporters had no particular reputation for violence, outside of an intense rivalry with Manchester United (during the 1985 FA Cup semi-final between the teams, supporters had hurled golf balls with eight inch nails driven through them at each other). However, news of what had happened in Rome spread quickly. It became clear that some sort of reprisal was considered to be in order. The perfect opportunity presented itself the following year, when Liverpool again reached the European Cup Final and again faced an Italian team - Juventus of Turin. Even the most placid terrace fan knew that there was going to be unfinished business to attend to at the Heysel Stadium.


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]'The Day That Football Died' - Newspaper Headline.[/FONT]
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Built in the 1920s, the Heysel Stadium was quite simply the worst venue in the world to host such a volatile encounter. The game was due to be the last match ever played at the ground, as it had been condemned many years previously for failing to meet modern standards of safety and design. As a result, little money had been spent upon it, and large parts of the stadium were crumbling.


There was little segregation of supporters, a factor exacerbated by the indiscriminate selling of black market tickets by touts. Many fans found that it was possible to enter the ground by simply lifting a section of the flimsy fencing that surrounded the terraces. There had been skirmishes around Brussels all day, and local police responded by getting fans into the stadium as quickly as possible, rather than arresting and detaining offenders. This haphazard stewarding of rival fans proved to be crucial as the tragedy unfolded: as there was no way of knowing who was in the ground and where they were, it was impossible for police to weed out known troublemakers, and easy for pockets of hard core hooligans to assemble wherever they wished. As a result, two hours before kick off, perhaps the most malevolent assembly of football supporters ever seen in one place had gathered, and as far as they were concerned, it was payback time. It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army. After the events in Rome, club rivalries had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite.


Violence was immediate. Italian fascists, who were present in force among the Juventus contingent, goaded supporters into making incursions into the main body of Liverpool fans, at the Western end of an enormous shared terrace. What were initially scuffles quickly escalated into a series of serious terrace battles. Then, 20:45 local time, something dreadful happened. The Liverpool fans charged into a solid mass of Juventus support, which was hemmed in on three sides by crumbling concrete walls. Unstoppable force had met immovable object.


The Juventus supporters attempted to fall back. However, with no avenue of retreat, they simply piled on top of each other. Panic set in among the Italians, some of whom were now starting to be crushed at the rear of the terrace as the Liverpool supporters continued to charge against the front. At this moment, with police and stewards too stunned to react, a wall at the Eastern end of the terrace gave way. Dozens of Juventus supporters were now trapped against what remained of the wall, and were trampled underfoot as thousands of people stampeded over them. It was at this point that the majority of the deaths occurred.


Meanwhile, there was mayhem in the ground itself. Italian supporters invaded the pitch in an effort to get at the English. All over the stadium violence erupted. It appeared that one Italian fan was firing a gun into the Liverpool fans: this later turned out to be a starting pistol. In desperation, several Liverpool players spoke across the public address system in an attempt to calm the supporters. Eventually, with the arrival of police reinforcements and elements of the Belgian army, enough order was restored for the match to take place. Neither set of players wanted to play. However, it was felt that even more carnage might ensure if rival supporters were allowed to rampage through Brussels. In one of the most meaningless matches ever played, Juventus won 1-0 with a goal by French genius Michel Platini.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The Aftermath[/FONT]
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The next morning, flowers were left on the doorsteps of Italian restaurants all over Liverpool. Bemused fans arriving home seemed unable to grasp what they had witnessed. In Brussels, dozens of supporters were quizzed by police, although relatively few custodial sentences were passed. The supporters were described as 'fighting mad' by the Belgian police. One had to be injected with six times the amount of tranquilliser required to knock out a horse in order to calm down enough to be interviewed.


The stadium itself was frightening to behold. Steel crush barriers at the Italian end of the terrace were bent and buckled entirely out of shape, in a grisly testament to the force of the Liverpool charge. It was in many respects fortunate that the wall had collapsed, as it is estimated that had it not done so the death toll could have been many times higher. In an unpleasant twist of fate, Liverpool supporters themselves experienced exactly what happens when force is unable to dissipate four years later, when 96 of their own number were crushed to death as a result of overcrowding at the 1989 FA Cup Semi Final at Hillsborough, England.
Official reaction was swift: English teams were banned from European competition for six years. This damaged the English game as top players, deprived of competing at European level, chose to play on the Continent instead. Also, several smaller clubs, whose domestic performances would otherwise have qualified them for the various European tournaments, missed their chance. Margaret Thatcher and the Queen issued formal apologies to the people of Belgium and Italy. A series of sweeping police anti-hooligan offensives saw several known 'Generals' jailed, although many hooligans simply decided that they had seen enough, and abandoned terrace violence altogether.


As we have seen, there were many reasons why the circumstances surrounding the events of the 1985 European Cup Final arose. Had it not done so at the Heysel Stadium, something similar was bound to have happened somewhere, such was the level of antagonism surrounding English football at the time. Until the Heysel Stadium, the terraces of English football grounds were little more than filthy concrete expanses where tens of thousands of people were literally locked in and left to their own devices for a couple of hours every Saturday afternoon. After Heysel, the authorities were no longer able to dismiss terrace violence as little more than working class lads letting off steam.


Anyway RIP the 39 people who went to a football game never to return home

scudzilla

citytillidie wrote: »

Fans were sent to prision for their part in what happened that day



I know this does not excuse it but have you researched what set this up from the year before. Liverpool fans being attacked in Rome after beating Roma in the European Cup final?

One 13 year old needing 200 stitches in his fave alone.

Typical United fans can't let anything go with out getting their digs in.

Even though they are not whiter than white ask the Family of Crystal Palace fan Paul Nixon

Cool, that makes it all fine then, so what you're saying is that 39 innocent people died because of revenge? Also, if that was the case then it must have been pre-meditated??

RasTa

Let's just respect the ones who died.

citytillidie

scudzilla wrote: »

Cool, that makes it all fine then, so what you're saying is that 39 innocent people died because of revenge? Also, if that was the case then it must have been pre-meditated??

Where did i say it made it fine?

Peyton Manning

This thread could get out of hand, but let's be sensible here. We're a wise group of people here for the most part, and I doubt there's a single person in this forum who would condone what happened that night. Citytillidie just shed some light on the background of this incident (which I was unaware of might I add, so cheers for the information), albeit with a very unnecessary dig at United fans - but that's hardly exclusive to this thread. Let's leave rivalry out of this and direct our anger and hatred towards the cowards who ruin the sport we love by having intentions other than having a good time when they head to a game. No one should ever lose their life at a football match. May they RIP.

oconnon9

RasTa wrote: »

Let's just respect the ones who died.

Agreed. Leave petty club rivalries aside

#15

citytillidie wrote: »

Fans were sent to prision for their part in what happened that day

I don't wish to derail this thread but seeing as you quoted me, I have a comment to add:

Those 'fans' were sent to prison for 3 years for manslaughter, most of them had part of their sentences suspended so its likely that a majority saw less than 24 months behind bars for their roles in killing 39 innocent people.

I have no interest in reading any articles about other events, this thread is about Heysel. I have no interest in getting into a Utd-Liverpool argument either, it's irrelevant.
Those Liverpool fans should still be in prison IMO, there is nothing else to say.

This is bigger than football allegiances, this was a tragedy on a mass scale.

Your dig at Utd fans is pathetic, it's not a point scoring exercise. All football-related deaths are unacceptable.

Reganio 2

#15 wrote: »

I don't wish to derail this thread

You should have stopped there.

#15

Reganio 2 wrote: »

You should have stopped there.

Yes, I should have just agreed that less than 2 years jail time is punishment enough for murder:rolleyes:

I'm withdrawing from this thread before I have to listen to ny more justification for the actions of some fans at Heysel.

My final comment:
All right thinking fans should be able to condemn what took place at Heysel, without any qualification whatsoever. Liverpool fans especially - as it was the reputation of their great club that was sullied by the actions of a few idiots.

Reganio 2

#15 wrote: »

Yes, I should have just agreed that less than 2 years jail time is punishment enough for murder:rolleyes:

I'm withdrawing from this thread before I have to listen to ny more justification for the actions of some fans at Heysel.

My final comment:
All right thinking fans should be able to condemn what took place at Heysel, without any qualification whatsoever. Liverpool fans especially - as it was the reputation of their great club that was sullied by the actions of a few idiots.

Who justified it? No one! Stop looking for a row. Their are millions of other threads for you to go winding people up and looking for a row. Not one Liverpool fan has ever said what they did was right in anyway people want you to stop being such a muppet about it.

Handsome Bob

Osu wrote: »

It makes my skin boil at the scum from Liverpool that were in Brussels on that day. No other word but absolute scum.

Where they are from is irrelevant, scum is scum.

Horrific stuff all together, from the decision to have the final in such a decrepid and dangerous stadium to the sheer recklessness of many supporters. It won't ever be forgotten.

LuckyLloyd

The decision to play the game on the night remains the single worst administrative call in the history of sport.

Anyway, this should be posted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnCz4CbSMII

therecklessone

citytillidie wrote: »

I know this does not excuse it but have you researched what set this up from the year before. Liverpool fans being attacked in Rome after beating Roma in the European Cup final?

Thanks for that post, it gave an excellent insight into the events leading up to that terrible night and challenges a lot of the orthodoxies established about football hooliganism. Of course, nothing excuses the behaviour witnessed that night, and while the actions (or lack thereof) of UEFA and the Belgian authorities contributed, the majority of blame must lie with those who went that night for any reason other than to watch a football match.

No person should have to worry about their safety at a football match, may those poor innocents who died that night rest in peace.

Dub13

This is a good article and every football fan should read it,this is a insiders view of what happened.

The Times (5 years ago)

Our day of shame

A Liverpool fan recalls how events spiralled out of control

By Tony Evans


“Thirty-nine Italians can’t be wrong.”

NEVER forgive, never forget. Never understand. On Merseyside, the feelings about the Heysel disaster are as deep as they are confused. The chant above was sung at the derby match last month by Everton fans, many of whom feel that in some way they are the real victims of that dreadful day because their title-winning team could not play in the European Cup the next season. It taunted Liverpool supporters, some of whom still feel that they had nothing to do with the deaths of 39 people on that May night nearly 20 years ago.

“A wall collapsed, that was all.”

I have said it and heard it countless times. Except it is a lie.

There was a moment that day that, more than anything that would happen over the ensuing 24 hours, has haunted me. Our train had just arrived at Jette station and a long column of Liverpool supporters set off downhill towards the centre of Brussels. I lingered and watched them, chequered flags flying, and thought it looked like a medieval army on the move. Above the narrow street, the locals hung out of open windows and watched, half-grinning but nervous. As I set off for the Grand Place, I thought: “We can do what we like today. No one can stop us.”

IT WAS warm and sunny, but there was a dark side to the general mood. It did not need the chequered flags, bought in Rome, to remind anyone about the events in the Italian capital a year before. Then, playing AS Roma in the European Cup final in their own stadium, Liverpool had won the cup but it was not a day remembered with affection. Before the match, scooter gangs has stalked the travelling fans. After the game, Rome erupted in rage, and the bloody events around the Olympic Stadium left everyone who was there — and those who had only heard talk of what happened — determined not to suffer again at the hands of Italian ultras.

“The Italians won’t do that to us again,” was a refrain repeated in the weeks since the semi-final. It was not a matter of revenge. It was a wariness, a fear that built itself up to an enormous rage that would spill out at the slightest perceived provocation.

The anger was palpable, and not just toward Italians. The British media, we felt, had barely reported one of the worst outbreaks of violence in the game’s history. Had it happened to supporters from any other city, there would have been outrage. But Liverpool was out of step with the mood of the country, marginalised and despised. Well, we could fight our own battles.

Turning into a narrow street in the centre of town, my brother and I saw about six Juventus fans in their twenties, lounging outside a café, trying to look cool and hard at the same time. When one looked me straight in the eye, I snarled: “Go on gob****e, say something.” They did not take up the offer. But the tone was set. And the drinking had not even started.

WE WERE used to confrontation, though not necessarily at football matches. The first half of the 1980s was perhaps the city’s lowest point, philosophically and economically. Scousers were labelled as thieves in the press, the city’s working class moved ever leftwards as Margaret Thatcher was fêted and the culture gap between Liverpool and the rest of England was stretched to breaking point.

Many of Liverpool’s travelling fans were politicised, even if only in a loose way. Quite a few of us had battled with police outside at Eddie Shah’s printing plant in Warrington and gravitated towards Militant Tendency. On the ordinary trains the tales were as likely to be about picket lines and Troops Out marches as incidents at football grounds. This was not hooligan culture as popularly imagined.

Where other clubs’ supporters gave themselves butch names and built a myth of organisation and generals, Liverpool and Everton fans mocked the hooligan ethos relentlessly. Read copies of The End, the seminal fanzine of the period, and the picture is clear. Service Crews, Headhunters and their ilk were laughable. The Inter City Firm drew guffaws and was seen not as a force to be admired and feared but as something from a Thatcherite Ealing Comedy. None of those people were present in Brussels, no matter what was said at the time. Hooligans from the far right would not have been welcome.

Of course, this did not mean there was no trouble at our games, just that it evolved in a different manner. When groups of young, aggressive, predominantly working-class men are put in confrontational situations, then there will be confrontation. There was.

THE GRAND PLACE was less tense than might have been expected. Liverpool fans were here in numbers and small groups who had travelled independently met up, felt safe and relaxed into an afternoon of drinking. Clustered around the bars, we sang, bare-chested in the sun. It was almost idyllic. Then the atmosphere started to turn as the drink kicked in.

The common belief was that Belgian beer was weaker than the booze at home. In the heat, young men used to drinking a gallon of weak mild were quaffing strong lagers as if they were lemonade. Small incidents started to mushroom and suddenly the mood changed and the bars began to shut down.By now, there were four of us in our little group. We were reluctant to leave the square because other friends may still be heading for the rendezvous. I went to find some beer, taking a red and white cap to give some protection from the sun. Walking down a narrow street, I saw a group of boys laughing almost hysterically. Seeing my quizzical look, they pointed at a shop. It was a jewellers with no protective grating over the window. All you could do was laugh.

Farther on, I saw a group of Juventus supporters, and one was wearing a black and white sun hat. It would give me more cover in the heat, so I swapped with him. Only he clearly did not want to part with his hat. He had no choice. Sensing danger, he let me have it and looked in disgust at the flimsy thing I’d given him. This was not cultural exchange: this was bullying, an assertion of dominance. I remember strutting away, slowly, the body language letting them know how I felt.

There was a supermarket by the bourse and, at the entrance, there was a Liverpool fan. “You’re Scouse?” he said. There was no need for an answer and he knew what I was there for. “It’s free to us today,” he said, handing me a tray of beer. Things were spinning out of control.

On the way back to the square, the group of Liverpool fans by the jewellers had been replaced by riot police. Glass was scattered all over the street. There was hysteria — and pride — in my laughter. This was turning into an excellent day.

We set off for the ground and there seemed to be more and more small confrontations. On other days the little cultural misunderstandings would end in hugs. Here, with the hair-trigger tempers, it was tears, and we were determined they would not be ours.

AT THE ground there was madness. People were staggering, collapsing, throwing up. A large proportion of Liverpool fans seemed to have lost control. We met a group of mates who had come by coach. A fellow passenger we all knew had leapt off as soon as they arrived and attacked two people, one an Italian, with an iron bar.

Even in a drunk and deranged state, the stadium appalled us. The outer wall was breeze block, and some of the ticketless were kicking holes in its base and attempting to crawl through. Most were getting savage beatings from the riot police, finally making their presence felt. It was easier to walk into the ground and ignore the ticket collector, some of whom were seated at tables — I went home with a complete ticket. Four years later, on another dreadful day, I would enter another ground without needing to show my ticket. It is not just the Belgians whose inefficiency had deadly consequences. Section Y grew more and more crowded and, in front of us, a crush barrier buckled and collapsed.

The rough treatment by the police drew a response and they disappeared from the back of the section after skirmishes. Seeing a policeman beating a young lad who was attempting to climb over the wall and was caught in the barbed wire, I pushed the Belgian away. He turned to hit me and I punched him — not hard — through his open visor. He ran away.

With the police gone, groups of youths swarmed over a snack stand and looted it. I climbed onto the roof, and was passed up cans of soft drinks. It felt like being on top of the world up there.

Back on the terraces there was an exchange of missiles — nothing serious by the standards of the day. We looked enviously at the space in section Z, though. There were too many people in our section. I went to the toilet and, by the time I came back, the fence was down and people were climbing over. Unable to locate my group, I joined the swarm. In section Z I wandered around for a while. There seemed to be very little trouble. People backed away but there were no charges, just a minor scuffle or two.

I climbed back into section Y, oblivious that 39 people were in the process of dying. It was clear that a huge commotion was going on at the front, and we began to get tetchy about the delayed kick-off.

Then there seemed to be a long tirade in Italian over the public address system — someone suggested it was a list of names — and all hell broke loose. Juventus fans came out of their end and came around the pitch and attacked the corner where the Liverpool supporters were standing. My mother, brother and sister were in there. Everyone went crazy. Men tore at the fences to get at the Italians and, at last, the police did an effective job of holding Liverpool fans back. The brother with me said: “If those fences go, football will be finished. There’ll be hundreds dead. It will be over.” Finally, the police drove the Italians back.

The game? I remember nothing. Afterwards? A deep disappointment, a nervousness about Italian knives, and a Belgian policeman whose parting shot at the stadium was to open the doors of a bus, throw in a canister of tear gas, and shut everyone in.

At Ostend it was a passive, depressive struggle through overcrowded departure rooms. No one mentioned deaths and shock ran through the ferry when we heard the news.

AND SO WE limped home, quickly throwing off any shame, repeating the mantra that it was a construction problem, just a wall collapsing, hiding from the scale of what had happened. The disaster has a long causal chain — stabbings and beatings in Rome, hair-trigger tempers, aggression on both sides, excessive drinking, poor policing and a stadium ripe for disaster. Remove any one link and the game may have passed off peacefully. But it didn’t.

So, Evertonians sing, with pathetic self-pity, “Thirty-nine Italians can’t be wrong.” Well they weren’t. We were. I was.

The Muppet

Dub13 wrote: »

This is a good article and every football fan should read it,this is a insiders view of what happened.

The Times (5 years ago)

Sorry can you tell me what makes that a good article as I stopped reading it as the justification for the violence that night started to appear.

There is no justification just as there is no blame to either of the clubs involved, A goup of Holligans (most clubs have them) from both clubs went on the rampage culminating in the death of 39 people at a football game, there is no logical explanaition for that and any attempt to justify it is wrong IMO.

Le King

citytillidie wrote: »

I know this does not excuse it but have you researched what set this up from the year before. Liverpool fans being attacked in Rome after beating Roma in the European Cup final?

One 13 year old needing 200 stitches in his fave alone.

Typical United fans can't let anything go with out getting their digs in.

Even though they are not whiter than white ask the Family of Crystal Palace fan Paul Nixon

So that makes it ok then? Because Roma fans did it the year before. Your a disgrace if you think that.

That's just disgusting.

Collie D

The Muppet wrote: »

Sorry can you tell me what makes that a good article as I stopped reading it as the justification for the violence that night started to appear.

Couldn't agree more. A more disgusting, self-serving piece of filth I have never read.

Regardless of the teams involved, 39 people died that evening as the result of holiganism. I find it quite sad that anyone could use those deaths as reason to have a go at opposing teams in this thread.

Shankly was wrong. Football is noweher near as important as life or death

Dub13

The Muppet wrote: »

Sorry can you tell me what makes that a good article as I stopped reading it as the justification for the violence that night started to appear.

There is no justification just as there is no blame to either of the clubs involved, A goup of Holligans (most clubs have them) from both clubs went on the rampage culminating in the death of 39 people at a football game, there is no logical explanaition for that and any attempt to justify it is wrong IMO.

Read the whole thing,here is the last line in it....

So, Evertonians sing, with pathetic self-pity, “Thirty-nine Italians can’t be wrong.” Well they weren’t. We were. I was.

citytillidie

Osu wrote: »

So that makes it ok then? Because Roma fans did it the year before. Your a disgrace if you think that.

That's just disgusting.

Again Where did I say I agreed with what happened that day?

therecklessone

Can be hard to read anything carefully from way up on those high horses...

Handsome Bob

The Muppet wrote: »

Sorry can you tell me what makes that a good article as I stopped reading it as the justification for the violence that night started to appear.

There is no justification just as there is no blame to either of the clubs involved, A goup of Holligans (most clubs have them) from both clubs went on the rampage culminating in the death of 39 people at a football game, there is no logical explanaition for that and any attempt to justify it is wrong IMO.

What article did you read? Because in the one I read there was no attempt to justify what happened, and if anything it's a brutally honest illustration of the reckless behaviour that he and other Liverpool fans took part in that day in Brussels.

LuckyLloyd

What a strange topic to try and score Liverpool / Utd points off.

Le King

citytillidie wrote: »

Again Where did I say I agreed with what happened that day?

It's a sad attempt at justification. In fact, a pathetic one. It doesn't matter what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans. Supporters of Liverpool FC killed 39 Italian Juventus fans. Those involved on the day were scumbags. No other words for it.

A pathetic attempt at justification starts when you said let's look at what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans the year before.
try and give that explanation to the families of the 39 that were killed. It doesn't matter what happened before... 39 Juve fans were killed...

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

Dub13

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What article did you read? Because in the one I read there was no attempt to justify what happened, and if anything it's a brutally honest illustration of the reckless behaviour that he and other Liverpool fans took part in that day in Brussels.

Thats it,but some people seem to think things are just black and white they do not want to inform themselves about the whole episode.This is a complex issue.

Le King

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What a strange topic to try and score Liverpool / Utd points off.

It's strange that you try fond it off as that. When there isn't an ounce of truth in it. If it was Manchester United fans I would be equally as disgusted.

It's actually sad that you try and make it out to be that.

Mr Alan

this thread is a ****in car crash, its actually horrible to read. no one is trying to justify anything, no one.

smallerthanyou

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The decision to play the game on the night remains the single worst administrative call in the history of sport.

The worst admin decision was the one to play it in the crumbling stadium to start with. I think they had to go ahead with the game. If it was replayed a week or two weeks later the retaliations could have been intense and more than likely ended up in more deaths.

Crazy though the light sentences that the "fans" got away with in the end.

LuckyLloyd

Osu wrote: »

It's a sad attempt at justification. In fact, a pathetic one. It doesn't matter what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans. Supporters of Liverpool FC killed 39 Italian Juventus fans. Those involved on the day were scumbags. No other words for it.

A pathetic attempt at justification starts when you said let's look at what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans the year before.
try and give that explanation to the families of the 39 that were killed. It doesn't matter what happened before... 39 Juve fans were killed...

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

Osu wrote: »

It's strange that you try fond it off as that. When there isn't an ounce of truth in it. If it was Manchester United fans I would be equally as disgusted.

It's actually sad that you try and make it out to be that.

Not putting Heysel within the wider context of what was wrong with football (and the culture of football supporting) at the time actually does the people who died that day a grave disservice. And understand that by doing so one is not excusing or justifying the actions of those involved on the day in question.

Shade a little gray into your worldview brother. For discussions of tragedies like this to be worthwhile it is necessary for us to move beyond moral righteousness. For example, the inability of American public opinion to move past anger in the aftermath of 9 / 11 caused a process that resulted in many more deaths in other parts of the globe (and there are countless other examples in human history). At some point, one has to discuss incidents like this in a full and nuanced manner - it is the only way we learn anything. As such, an attempt to censor articles or broader pieces on the issue in this thread is beyond ridiculous.

Collie D

smallerthanyou wrote: »

I think they had to go ahead with the game. If it was replayed a week or two weeks later the retaliations could have been intense and more than likely ended up in more deaths.

Crazy though the light sentences that the "fans" got away with in the end.

I was reading today an interview with Trappatoni (who was managing Juve that night) that that was the reason they were given at the time. That if those fans were let out of the stadium that night there would have been carnage. Of course at the time, nobody knew the full scale of what had happened.

LuckyLloyd

smallerthanyou wrote: »

The worst admin decision was the one to play it in the crumbling stadium to start with. I think they had to go ahead with the game. If it was replayed a week or two weeks later the retaliations could have been intense and more than likely ended up in more deaths.

Crazy though the light sentences that the "fans" got away with in the end.

Don't necessarily disagree. The correct decision was then either to play it later behind closed doors or just not play it. To play it on the night produced a garish and bizarre spectacle.

citytillidie

Osu wrote: »

It's a sad attempt at justification. In fact, a pathetic one. It doesn't matter what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans. Supporters of Liverpool FC killed 39 Italian Juventus fans. Those involved on the day were scumbags. No other words for it.

A pathetic attempt at justification starts when you said let's look at what happened between the Roma and Liverpool fans the year before.
try and give that explanation to the families of the 39 that were killed. It doesn't matter what happened before... 39 Juve fans were killed...

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

I am not making any excuses.

There is no justification to what happened that day

therecklessone

http://www.gatfield.org.uk/WMU%20paper.htm

That diagram is a visual representation of what is referred to as the Swiss Cheese Model of Accident Causation.

The safety of the system, or organisation, is considered as a series of barriers or “defences in depth” against the potential for failure. These barriers may take a variety of forms, including hardware, software, and the human element (the live ware). Normally, the presence of one or more of the barriers will prevent accidents from happening, sometimes only the final barrier will hold (a “near-miss”), but very occasionally, all the “holes” in the system will align, the safety barriers are penetrated and an accident occurs.

Adapted for the events of that night in Brussels, the failure of multiple safety barriers (stadium design and state of repair, ticket sales, lack of segregation, poor or inadequate policing) allowed the pre-existing conditions caused by the previous year's final, coupled with behaviour on the night fuelled by excessive drinking, to take a terrible toll. If even one of those barriers had functioned effectively, we might have nothing to talk about today.

Failure to recognise and negate causal factors dooms us to repeat our mistakes.

Nobody is trying to excuse what happened, my reading of the extract posted by Dub13 is of a confession followed by a statement of honest regret. Perhaps if some people took a step back and read posts with a little more care they would see the same as the rest of us?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I can't see how the article posted by Dub13 could be contrued as someone trying to make excuses.

He's filled with regret at the end of it and he didn't know what was happening when the wall collapsed.

eZe^

Some amazing articles lads, I didn't know much about the incident, but it's crazy to see how all the events unfolded over the space of a year. Dreadfully sad incident, and let's hope stuff like this never happens again. RIP



Also : Mod warning. The next person who makes this thread into a vehicle for criticizing liverpool and it's fans will get an automatic ban. It was a horrendous incident, but getting in a cheap and calling Liverpool fans 'scum' is just pathetic. Let's keep this thread as a dedication to the fans that lost their lives, and how lucky we are that football has seemingly moved on from such turbulent times.

Kess73

Osu wrote: »

100%.

Cowardly and such a disgrace those Liverpool fans were to the world of football.

RIP 39 Juve fans.

It makes my skin boil at the scum from Liverpool that were in Brussels on that day. No other word but absolute scum.

Those who were involved were scum, and deserve to be condemned for the rest of their lives for it, but please don't paint every person who was there that day supporting Liverpool as scum. Let's not turn the tragedy into points scoring between fans here.

Those that were in any way, little or large, involved in anything that led to the 39 deaths or any other harm that day deserve the vitriol that gets spoken about them, and in my eyes those that were caught did not get punished enough.


It is a mark of shame that will forever hang over the club, and one that red half of Liverpool learned to understand even more four years later.

Three years ago I got punched in the face by an Italian bloke that I had never seen in my life. Why? He had come into my place of work and heard me speak. Upon asking a then work colleague about my accent, he was told where my accent was from.

As he was being held by security as we waited for the Gardai to arrive, the reason came out. He had no idea who I was, and had never met me. But he lost his son in Brussels and never got to meet the man who murdered his son, so in his eyes anyone from Liverpool was to blame. The fact I was six inches taller than him, probably outweighed the poor man by five stone meant nothing to guy as all he heard was an accent that may have been like what his son heard.

All I could do was stare at the man and say sorry to him over and over, despite only being a kid when it happened and having nothing to do with it. I pressed no charges, I couldn't after what that man had been carrying around all these years. I lost an uncle at Hillsborough and that stung, so the gods only know what a man who lost a son in such a senseless way must have gone through.

To this day I am very self-conscious when I meet anyone from Italy, not because somebody might hit me again, but because of the memories that my accent or hearing where I am from might bring back if the person had links to that terrible night.

We, those of us from the red half of the city, have no comeback for any harsh words from anyone from Turin. They paid dearly for the right to say what they will, and all we can do is take those words on the chin and offer empathy back in return.

Sorry for going on a bit. I did not want to post in this thread, but the post I quoted was on my mind since I read it.

Le King

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not putting Heysel within the wider context of what was wrong with football (and the culture of football supporting) at the time actually does the people who died that day a grave disservice. And understand that by doing so one is not excusing or justifying the actions of those involved on the day in question.

Shade a little gray into your worldview brother. For discussions of tragedies like this to be worthwhile it is necessary for us to move beyond moral righteousness. For example, the inability of American public opinion to move past anger in the aftermath of 9 / 11 caused a process that resulted in many more deaths in other parts of the globe (and there are countless other examples in human history). At some point, one has to discuss incidents like this in a full and nuanced manner - it is the only way we learn anything. As such, an attempt to censor articles or broader pieces on the issue in this thread is beyond ridiculous.

Good point and I understand your point in it's entirety. However, from my point of view, citytilidie was trying to justify it. However, he has clarified that he wasn't below.

Obviously for football, the situation both past and in the present, at the time, had to be taken into account in order for football as a game to move on from these incidents and to make sure they never happen again.

But you give these points to the families of the 39 that died and they will tell you where to go.

Football has moved on now, review processes have been done and adjustments to the way games are organised have been made according to the findings of the review process.

However, we have learned from Heysel. Right now, all that is remembered is the 39 that died. There is no excuse for what happened that day. It was an absolute tragedy that was caused directly by the actions by a portion of the Liverpool fans on that day.

Anybody trying to argue against that needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

citytillidie wrote: »

I am not making any excuses.

There is no justification to what happened that day

Fair enough.

And btw I'm not criticizing Liverpool fans in general at all. Just the ones involved in the day. I think even the fans harbouring the most biased agenda against Liverpool can't argue that the vast majority of Liverpool fans of now behave exemplary. But every club has it's idiots.

Osu

Osu wrote: »

But every club has it's idiots.

Very true.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Sorry can you tell me what makes that a good article as I stopped reading it as the justification for the violence that night started to appear.

There is no justification just as there is no blame to either of the clubs involved, A goup of Holligans (most clubs have them) from both clubs went on the rampage culminating in the death of 39 people at a football game, there is no logical explanaition for that and any attempt to justify it is wrong IMO.

The problem was you stopped reading it. Its a good description of what happened and why and he actually is saying what you are saying.

This could have happened anywhere during the 70's and 80's.

Pinturicchio

Alessandro Del Piero and Juventus President Andrea Agnelli look back over the Heysel tragedy. “We must never forget.”

Today marks the 25th anniversary of that European Cup Final match when Liverpool fans attacked the Bianconeri supporters by knocking down a wall, prompting 39 deaths.


“I was 11 years old, but I remember that day well,” explained current Juventus captain Del Piero.


“My favourite team was set to win the European Cup. It couldn’t escape this time, as we were the best. There was school the day after, but I knew my parents would let me stay up late. It’s not as if I could sleep anyway.


“We watched it at the house of my Dad’s colleague and dear friend, an Inter fan and today certainly not a ‘rival.’ That was a great opportunity to enjoy all that is great about football.


“What happened next exemplified all that was bad, the most dramatic events that you could imagine. I was playing outside with the other kids before kick-off and the game never seemed to start.


“Only later my parents would explain and I started to realise the potential insanity, bestial behaviour and even irresponsibility of mankind. We went home at half-time. The game had started, but it no longer mattered.


“We won the Cup, but at Heysel 39 people dies, including 32 Italians, the Juventini like us who just wanted to celebrate. We could’ve been among them.


“Now I am the captain of Juventus. 25 years have passed and I remember the victims as both a player and a fan, an 11-year-old boy who dreamed of playing in that Final. We must never forget, especially those of us who have had the honour of wearing this shirt even for just a minute.


“We must hold a thought for that game that never started and those who lost their lives simply because they wanted to be there cheering on Juventus.”


New President Agnelli also spoke about his memories of May 29 1985 in Brussels.


“That night changed the history of sport. I was nine years old and as a passionate supporter I approached it with trepidation. I talked it over with Del Piero and we had similar experiences. We were children and didn’t entirely understand what was happening.


“We Juventini have always struggled to feel that trophy was truly ours. In the new stadium there will be an area to commemorate the events of Heysel, so the fans who lost their lives there can always have a place in our hearts.”

Jazzy

Osu wrote: »

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

and you win Jazzy's patented DERP of the day

Kenny's thoughts on that tragic day

Kenny Dalglish's recollections on Heysel

What became known as the Horror of Heysel arose partly from events that occurred in Rome. Before and after the triumphant European Cup Final, Liverpool fans suffered horrendous abuse at the hands of Italian fans. Our supporters were attacked in alleys. People I had left tickets for at Rome's Olympic Stadium said they had been hammered with stones. Coaches were ambushed by Roma fans tossing bricks at them. The police were escorting buses but they still didn't get much protection. A year later, the seeds of chaos bore fruit. Some of those Liverpool fans in Brussels would have been in Rome the year before. When Italian fans started throwing rocks and stones again at the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, the Liverpool supporters would have remembered Rome.

We learned afterwards that some Juventus fans at the unsegregated send had been throwing stones at Liverpool supporters, which was why some of our fans ran at them on that terrace in Heysel. Liverpool fans were blamed for killing the Italians but people forget the circumstances. On previous away trips, Liverpool fans had behaved themselves as well as anyone. So why was Heysel different? The stadium, the organisation and the attacks on Liverpool fans in Rome were factors in the Heysel disaster.

Peter Robinson (Liverpool Chairman) went over before the final to see the stadium. He was concerned about many things to do with Heysel Stadium, which was clearly unsuited to holding two sets of supporters who were bound to be emotionally charged for such a big game. Peter told the Belgium authorities and UEFA that he was very apprehensive about ticket allocation.
Peter was also worried that they had kept a section of the ground for the use of Belgian people. He suggested that only Liverpool and Juventus should receive tickets. Allowing a third party access to tickets would inevitably mean a dangerous mixed area, with English and Italian supporters having got tickets off any Belgian wanting to make a few bob for himself. It was a very frustrating situation. Liverpool seemed to be the only ones fearful about what could happen.

Liverpool made it public that they were concerned about the condition of the stadium, but UEFA said they must continue, so the ill-fated final went ahead and unfortunately everybody knows the consequences. Liverpool were so concerned that they put up information booths outside the ground in an attempt to keep our fans out of the unsegregated area. Liverpool did that, not UEFA. It angers me that Liverpool did all the warning, Liverpool made every effort to prevent trouble and when the worst happened Liverpool received all the blame.

There was no hint of trouble when we entered Heysel. As normal, we walked out on to the pitch, still wearing our civvies, about an hour and half before kick-off. We strolled behind one of the goals. The terrace there was split in two, but the only thing dividing the sections was a flimsy barrier of what looked like chicken wire. The half supposedly kept for Belgians keen to see a final on their doorstep was where the ticket allocation had gone terribly wrong. Most of the people in that neutral Belgian section were Juventus fans. The other section behind the goal contained our people. As we walked behind the goal, one of the Liverpool fans threw us a ball. The players just kicked it around and occasionally volleyed it back into the crowd. The Liverpool fans kicked it back and so it went on. Everything was amicable. There was no indication of any bother, but seemingly while all this was happening, Juventus fans were throwing stones at the Liverpool fans. Remembering the dreadful treatment they had encountered in Rome, our supporters inevitably acted angrily.

I can't condone the action of some Liverpool fans but it is difficult not to react when the opposing supporters are throwing missiles at you. The fact that fatalities might result wouldn't have occurred to the Liverpool fans when they ran across. If you have been pelted with stones the year before, and suffered badly, you are not going to accept it again. That's how the trouble started. UEFA must shoulder much of the blame.

The choice of Heysel was so obviously wrong. The Belgians had no idea how to stage a match of this magnitude. There wasn't a great deal of security; thousands of people got into the ground with the stub still on their ticket. The worst mistake the Belgians and UEFA made was in allocating tickets to people not from the two clubs involved. That was a recipe for disaster. Of course it's sad when two sets of people cannot go and enjoy a game, cannot behave themselves, but you've got to be realistic. You've got to recognise the potential for trouble and do everything in your power to prevent any problems occurring. UEFA didn't do that.
Some people said Liverpool's players were hit by stones and that our fans reacted angrily to that. I don't recall anything being thrown at us. It's the type of thing you would remember. Besides, we were inside getting changed when the real trouble started. Someone in the dressing-room hinted there had been a bit of trouble but I never listen to unsubstantiated stories. I nearly missed Heysel because I was struggling with flu. I had taken Lemsip to try to get the bug out of my system and I just lay on the massage bench, preserving my strength until the call came to go out and play. In fact, I fell asleep, so I didn't know much about what was going on. Apparently there were various stories coming in and out of the dressing-room but nothing could be confirmed. Personally, I never saw any trouble.

We were all dressed and ready to go when a UEFA representative came in. 'You can't go,' he told Joe, 'there's been a bit of trouble.' When something like that happens, chaos takes over. No one really knew what was going on. In situations like these, the people who have least information are the players. We are cocooned from everything, just told to wait until someone decides something. Some of the lads were popping in and out, but nobody really knew what was going on. Chaos hid the truth. Even people watching did not appreciate what they were witnessing.

Friends of mine who were at Heysel told me afterwards they never knew that had been fatalities. They knew there had been trouble but not to what extent. When you are in a foreign country, it's difficult to find out what's going on. I don't even know how informative the PA system was. Confusion reigned.

We didn't know anybody had died, not officially. All we heard were rumours. Football's a game of huge gossip, which I just switch off from. When Phil Neal, our captain, went out to talk to the Liverpool supporters, I don't think he was informed of the severity of the situation. He was only asked to go out to speak to the, to calm them down. I don't think he, nor Scirea, Juventus's captain, were told there were any fatalities. Phil Neal wrote in his autobiography that I knew about the deaths before we played the game. I categorically did not. I had fallen asleep and didn't know that there had been fatalities. If UEFA had told the players that people had died, I don't think that the players would have wanted to go on.

But what did we know? I was never outside so I never knew the extent of the trouble. We knew something serious had happened, because the game had been delayed by an hour and a half, but it's very difficult to decide what's true and what's false. Probably the people watching on television in Britain and in Italy and around the world, and the media present, knew a lot more about it than we did. If the people who were running the show could not tell us what was happening, what chance had we got?

Eventually, when everything had been calmed down, UEFA decided to start the final. Amid all the confusion, the one thing that was right was the decision to play the game. If the final had not been played, there was the possibility of further trouble. Another match would not have been a very clever thought either, given the circumstances. That would have been set up for more trouble. Walking out on the pitch, both sets of players immediately became aware of the altered atmosphere. I honestly didn't notice the rubble piled up in one corner, where the supporters had died in that terrible crush. Most of the players surmised there was something seriously wrong because there were huge gaps at the end. It's easy to understand why so many people left. If I had been a supporter in that corner, and thought people had died, I would not have stayed on to watch a football match. Some people thought it would have been a mark of respect to those who died not to play the game. But UEFA decided it had to be played for fear of even greater trouble. The decision taken at the time was understandable.

If I had known about the fatalities, I would not have wanted to play. You go along to watch a game. You don't go along expecting that sort of ending, do you? Football's not that important. No game of football is worth that. Everything else pales into insignificance. Juventus fans should not have been throwing stones. Liverpool fans should not have reacted the way they did. Yet neither set of supporters could have anticipated the terrible outcome. If they had forseen the dreadful consequences, or thought what terrible things might unfold, I'm sure the stones would never have been thrown by the Italians and that the English retaliation would never have occurred. Every single one of them, both Italian and English, must have regretted it. I'm sure they still do now.
When we went for dinner after the match, some of the wives said they had seen bodies piled up under the stand. It must have been pretty harrowing for them. They were sitting in the directors' box while fans were running wild across the stand. They felt very threatened. For the players, we were still trying to piece together what had happened. I only really became aware the following morning, when we watched BBC television in the hotel. Then we saw the Italian fans crying, and they were banging on the side of our bus as we left the hotel. When we left Brussels, the Italians were angry, understandably so; 39 of their friends had died. We needed a lot of police to protect the bus. I remember well one Italian man, who had his face right up against the window where I was sitting. He was crying and screaming. You feel for anybody who loses someone in those circumstances.

These Juventus fans felt that Liverpool were responsible for the deaths of their friends. How could we be? We had been the ones warning IEFA and the Belgians. It was our supporters who had been attacked the previous year by Italians and were determined not to be ambushed again. I could understand Juventus' emotions because they felt the team represented those who had been involved in the trouble, but they could have directed some of their anger towards UEFA and the Belgian authorities. It was wrong that Liverpool took all the blame. Margaret Thatcher said Liverpool should be banned from Europe, and that our fans were hooligans. What did she know? She never knew many of the facts. Partly as a consequence of Margaret Thatcher not understanding the situation, and condemning Liverpool so quickly, English clubs were subsequently suspended for five years.

Within football, I don't think there was any resentment towards Liverpool because English clubs were banned from Europe. I think there was resentment towards Margaret Thatcher, who mouthed off before FIFA had made their decision. When the Prime Minister of a country is critical of a club, it is easy for the governing body of football to go along with it. A little bit more thought from Margaret Thatcher, and a little bit more time to get the real information, might have been more helpful. She certainly could have waited. Someone in her position should have known how much weight her words carried.

eZe^

That's pretty disappointing from Dalglish right there to be honest. Gone down alot in my estimation after that. He seems more concerned with the blame game (and doing his utmost to make Liverpool look the innocent party, which would be understandable in different circumstances) than remembering the tragic deaths of 39 innocent fans.


Otherwise though, I had never researched the incident in the past, it's horrific stuff. I watched Platini on some recent soccer show discuss how it was the day he was no longer a young man. And how now it's his responsibility as president to ensure stuff like that can never happen again. It's kinda funny to see how he's gone from a living legend to a constantly hated figure.

Collie D

I've read that Dalglish piece before somewhere. Did he say that again today? Had a lot of respect for that man before. Doesn't cover himself in glory at all there.

Peyton Manning

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny's thoughts on that tragic day

These Juventus fans felt that Liverpool were responsible for the deaths of their friends. How could we be? We had been the ones warning IEFA and the Belgians. It was our supporters who had been attacked the previous year by Italians and were determined not to be ambushed again. I could understand Juventus' emotions because they felt the team represented those who had been involved in the trouble, but they could have directed some of their anger towards UEFA and the Belgian authorities. It was wrong that Liverpool took all the blame. Margaret Thatcher said Liverpool should be banned from Europe, and that our fans were hooligans. What did she know? She never knew many of the facts. Partly as a consequence of Margaret Thatcher not understanding the situation, and condemning Liverpool so quickly, English clubs were subsequently suspended for five years.

That's fúcking dispicable.