Metalwork teaching

10rooney10

alrighty - goin to ul next year... hopefully stayin in the so called classey plassey-its ment to be mighty craic :P ---would like to hear from somebody who did metalwork teaching?? pleaasse.. need to know what the course is like???

JimmyMoose

A close friend of mine did metalwork, but he's not on here. All I know is he loves it, they all do, hard enough like, good few hours and ya have to attend compulsory labs like to do the practical stuff!! 1st year I think woodwork and metalwork all do the same stuff, so you'll be doing woodwork too, but then ya move onto metalwork in 2nd year!!

And I have just moved out of Plassey, best year of my life!!!!

10rooney10

JimmyMoose wrote: »

A close friend of mine did metalwork, but he's not on here. All I know is he loves it, they all do, hard enough like, good few hours and ya have to attend compulsory labs like to do the practical stuff!! 1st year I think woodwork and metalwork all do the same stuff, so you'll be doing woodwork too, but then ya move onto metalwork in 2nd year!!

And I have just moved out of Plassey, best year of my life!!!!

thanks for the info jimmymoose! :P is it true dat the lectures start at 9am and go on until 6 in the evening? tink i heard that somewhere..? yea every1 seems to love plassey village! :pac:

JimmyMoose

Nope it's definitely not 9-6! I think ye have around 4 or 5 hours a day but I wouldn't be sure, something like 24 hours a week! It's long enough but it's grand, you'll soon know what you'll be able to afford to miss the odd time too

cson

You'll have around 20-30hrs per week for a teaching course I think based on a few of friends examples [woodie teachers]. Probably around 24ish I'd say. Your labs will most likely be compulsory though so you'll have to attend them. And it likely won't be an even spread either - you might have 6hrs on a Monday and then only 2hrs on Tuesday. The hours won't go in sequence either - you might have breaks of a few hours between lectures/tutes/labs. What that has to do with accommodation I don't know.... but yeah Kilmurry & Plassey ftw for firsties.

10rooney10

cson wrote: »

You'll have around 20-30hrs per week for a teaching course I think based on a few of friends examples [woodie teachers]. Probably around 24ish I'd say. Your labs will most likely be compulsory though so you'll have to attend them. And it likely won't be an even spread either - you might have 6hrs on a Monday and then only 2hrs on Tuesday. The hours won't go in sequence either - you might have breaks of a few hours between lectures/tutes/labs. What that has to do with accommodation I don't know.... but yeah Kilmurry & Plassey ftw for firsties.

thanks cson!! 24hrs isnt too bad anyway!

cson

You'll likely spent a lot of time in the Schrodinger and Engineering buildings both of which are around 15min walk from Plassey.

10rooney10

anybody knw wat time approx lectures finish on a friday for the metalwork teaching course?!! ..... :rolleyes: ?????????????

daithi_lacha

I was in til 6 every day this semester. 24 / 25 hours per week. most of your stuff will be in the schrodinger or the main building, with the odd education or maths lecture in the kemmy. better option would be kilmurray, tis closer than plassey to the schrodiner for all those late nights in the drawing office getting coursework done! During semester 1 I was in til 6 on a friday also with a woodwork lab... A great course but LOTS of work...

10rooney10

daithi_lacha wrote: »

I was in til 6 every day this semester. 24 / 25 hours per week. most of your stuff will be in the schrodinger or the main building, with the odd education or maths lecture in the kemmy. better option would be kilmurray, tis closer than plassey to the schrodiner for all those late nights in the drawing office getting coursework done! During semester 1 I was in til 6 on a friday also with a woodwork lab... A great course but LOTS of work...

thanks for the info daithi- ouch though! haha sounds like a tough course! ah suppose ud get used to it! i'll tell ya i wnt b in til 6 on a friday anyway (is that lectures til 6 on a friday or just your own work?) - i plan on been on a bus home back up the country at that time! a question for ya daithi - is there a high standard in technical graphics in 1st year or do they start of with basic stuff?... :rolleyes:;)

sceptre

Moved from the accommodation thread. As the accommodation thread is called "Where do you live - Reviews! (All Accommodation Qs go here!)", it'd be cool if you kept in mind in future that questions about metalwork or any other course aren't really designed to go there.

10rooney10

sceptre wrote: »

Moved from the accommodation thread. As the accommodation thread is called "Where do you live - Reviews! (All Accommodation Qs go here!)", it'd be cool if you kept in mind in future that questions about metalwork or any other course aren't really designed to go there.

soorrrry sceptre - i take it ur the creator of this thread!!!!! :P haha! yep i will keep it in mind it'll not happen again ( don't worry! ):eek:;);) lol

Mr Tickles

10rooney10 wrote: »

s there a high standard in technical graphics in 1st year or do they start of with basic stuff?... :rolleyes:;)

They go back to basics as they know not everyone went as far as Leaving Cert with Tech Drawing (now DCG). There are usually some support services on offer as well, generally set up by the students themselves were people get together and help each other out with portfolio work etc.

If your having trouble, you *WILL* need to get it sorted and really concentrate on drawing. It seriously is not a part of the course you can just wing. Each semester the classes get more difficult and workload generally increases, but its not like your thrown into the deep end.

As for heading home early on a Friday, it's not your lectures you have to worry about (although in 1st year, a few lecturers tend to take attendance) its your labs and tutorials which you really can't afford to miss.

But most lecturers always try and accommodate people that need to change lab/tutorial groups.

10rooney10

nioce! thanks for the info mr.tickles! :P u make it sound like - ( miss a lecture and im f**kd! ) ah no.. suppose just keep up wit work and i b sound ! i aint stayn weeknds so the lecturer will hav to accommodate me! bus home bout 3/4 every friday..?!!?!?!? is there alot of practical projects to complete aswell?

gazzacarroll

I would also love to know more about this course as well as I am 99% sure that I will be doing it next year. Its my number choice on my CAO and I reckon I wont be too far off 460-470 (not cocky just worked my hole off nd extra points from maths included in that too) , I just have a few questions that I love answered from somebody.

Whats the names of books I will be needing for the course as I would prefer to get them now while I have the money to spend on them?

I think I might have only got a C3/C2 in my LC DCG, I did very poorly in the actually drawing part, Is the Technical Drawing part of the course mostly CAD or manual drawing?

Are the projects difficult?

Should I keep any Leaving cert books that I have?

deise go deo

Mr Tickles wrote: »

If your having trouble, you *WILL* need to get it sorted and really concentrate on drawing. It seriously is not a part of the course you can just wing. Each semester the classes get more difficult and workload generally increases, but its not like your thrown into the deep end.

Well il be there. I have my place already.
As for drawing. Is it a big part of the course? I only did it Junior cert and I was bad at it then. I may have done some of the test in pen:o
I couldent tell an orthagrafic projection from a 2H pencil at this stage.

mayo_lad

deise go deo wrote: »

Well il be there. I have my place already.
As for drawing. Is it a big part of the course? I only did it Junior cert and I was bad at it then. I may have done some of the test in pen:o
I couldent tell an orthagrafic projection from a 2H pencil at this stage.

hi lad i've lived with woodwork teachers before and the drawing they do is above leaving cert standerd if i was you i'ed make sure to just go to all the labs becouse otherwise you'll spend hours doing drawings before you can hand up your portfolio .

as for your standerd of drawing just follow the rules(as boreing as they are ) and you'll be fine that's how i got through TG for the leaving cert anyway

deise go deo

mayo_lad wrote: »

hi lad i've lived with woodwork teachers before and the drawing they do is above leaving cert standerd if i was you i'ed make sure to just go to all the labs becouse otherwise you'll spend hours doing drawings before you can hand up your portfolio .

as for your standerd of drawing just follow the rules(as boreing as they are ) and you'll be fine that's how i got through TG for the leaving cert anyway

And How would one go about learning these?:o

mayo_lad

you should be able to find them out from the notes your lecture will give you

take your time with the drawing's it has always helped me when i was doing them

also attention to detail is a key factor

10rooney10

mayo_lad wrote: »

you should be able to find them out from the notes your lecture will give you

take your time with the drawing's it has always helped me when i was doing them

also attention to detail is a key factor

mayo lad.. what do ya mean bout rules in tg?

mayo_lad

10rooney10 wrote: »

mayo lad.. what do ya mean bout rules in tg?

there all set out in the britsh standerds for engineeering drawings


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Suk5jejL1p0J:engineering.dartmouth.edu/mshop/pdf/introdr.pdf+britsh+standerds+for+engineering+drawings&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjRVdN9xgTTQ18y4xgq_RhSD8qYl9xQlNWKALD8389Dj2xL2KdarZ7plId6jX2vOTqJ_R1AXxBUY6pkXns1TBCYZzuh0hGSbVnsMEEvcdXyvDMhQOt-OBtDuPf1XSsEERKzSAVI&sig=AHIEtbRMDTl0yGvSgytjuet3dKlySDTe6g

here are a few of them there are set out gide lines for every tipe of drawings you do

note the link brings you tho the americal version but the european and britsh standerds ones are very simeler

bigpink

mayo_lad wrote: »

there all set out in the britsh standerds for engineeering drawings


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Suk5jejL1p0J:engineering.dartmouth.edu/mshop/pdf/introdr.pdf+britsh+standerds+for+engineering+drawings&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjRVdN9xgTTQ18y4xgq_RhSD8qYl9xQlNWKALD8389Dj2xL2KdarZ7plId6jX2vOTqJ_R1AXxBUY6pkXns1TBCYZzuh0hGSbVnsMEEvcdXyvDMhQOt-OBtDuPf1XSsEERKzSAVI&sig=AHIEtbRMDTl0yGvSgytjuet3dKlySDTe6g

here are a few of them there are set out gide lines for every tipe of drawings you do

note the link brings you tho the americal version but the european and britsh standerds ones are very simeler

Thats bad spelling for future teachers:eek:

mayo_lad

bigpink wrote: »

Thats bad spelling for future teachers:eek:

note i am not a future teacher i am a future engineer and i don't need reminding that my spelling is crap I have my Dyslexia to remind me of that .:mad::mad::mad:

bigpink

I often make spelling mistakes so i just double check these days:)

10rooney10

if you fail education exam at end of semester 1......... is it true that you cannot go on teaching practice ????? also is anyone able to tell me what qca you would get for an A2 in an exam? ... cant find it.. or mayb its because i just dont understand it !!!!!

mayo_lad

10rooney10 wrote: »

if you fail education exam at end of semester 1......... is it true that you cannot go on teaching practice ????? also is anyone able to tell me what qca you would get for an A2 in an exam? ... cant find it.. or mayb its because i just dont understand it !!!!!

the best way to get a answer for this question is to ask Aoife in the education officers thread .

FerrisBueller

Hey, are you talking about the Primary School Experience? If you fail the exam, you can still do it as far as I know. If you miss it in Jan, you have to do it at the end of the semester I think.

10rooney10

hello again... just wondering what is the pass mark for the education exam which is worth 50 % of the total marks for the module (1st year)

daithi_lacha

10rooney10 wrote: »

if you fail education exam at end of semester 1......... is it true that you cannot go on teaching practice ????? also is anyone able to tell me what qca you would get for an A2 in an exam? ... cant find it.. or mayb its because i just dont understand it !!!!!

Teaching practice or the Primary School Placement? I would imaging failing education in semester 1 shouldn't affect your primary school placement, although results aren't out yet I'm sure you'll be grand!

With regard to 2nd year teaching placement (4th years are done so I'm assuming this is what you mean) - All the guidelines are laid out in the Teaching Practice Handbook which is available online somewhere, or in the teaching practice office. There was a few going around in lectures too. Off the top of my head your QCA must be above 2.0 from semester 1 to proceed to T.P. I think there's something about having 2 or more deficient grades also.

A number of people asked me about this mid last semester and I looked into it and there was a bit of a grey area surrounding I-grades etc, although don't quote me on that!

Your best bet if you have a fear of failing semester 1 education already, is to have a chat with your advisor or just go to Seamus Gordon or Tom Geary!

daithi_lacha

10rooney10 wrote: »

hello again... just wondering what is the pass mark for the education exam which is worth 50 % of the total marks for the module (1st year)

just saw this... 40% I think..... although stop worrying and enjoy your week in the primary school! The exact figure will be in the module outline on the portal in Laura Regans folder from what I remember?

10rooney10

daithi_lacha wrote: »

just saw this... 40% I think..... although stop worrying and enjoy your week in the primary school! The exact figure will be in the module outline on the portal in Laura Regans folder from what I remember?

ah not worried atall atall!! :P just trying to work out if i might have scrapped through is that 40 percent out of 50 % in the actual written exam (HARDLY :eek: ) im in bother if it is haha

i was hoping the written exam would be about 20%/50% which is the same as 40/100 therefore overall it would be 40/100 with all coursework and exam included..... ?
:pac:

daithi_lacha

your best bet is to check out the module outline, but it would be 40% of the written exam, which would be 20% of your whole module I'd imagine.... but double check it in the outline!

RHunce

Hows the drawing in the course lads?

hope to do woodwork teaching next year and hope to get an a1 in my DCG this June..

Is the course very practically orientated?

canned_ulkc

RHunce - I'm in 3rd year WW and I love it. Things have changed for the last 2 years and I believe there will be 5 modules in the future rather than 6. Also, we got no solidworks until this year but they start it right away now (which makes sense given all did DCG rather than the old syllabus)

Personally, I think there are a few frustrations within the course and the workload is significant. In terms of how things are done; it's not a case of woodwork modules teaching you how to do woodwork and the education module taking on the teaching bit - it's about appropriate project work, covering the skills and an approach to teaching the relevant skills.

Some modules felt like filler up to now but maybe the reduction in module numbers will cure that.....

10rooney10

well boys... whats the story with the first year materials labs -- if you miss one how much % do you lose and also how many can you miss altogether?

daithi_lacha

10rooney10 wrote: »

also how many can you miss altogether?

not the best attitude to take.... you're marked on the online tests - your answers for these will be based on the lab results. ive heard of people who never took an online test and still managed to pass the module but dont risk it! just show up!

RHunce

10rooney10 wrote: »

well boys... whats the story with the first year materials labs -- if you miss one how much % do you lose and also how many can you miss altogether?

from my reading of this thread you are seriously living acedemic life on the edge :eek:

Figerty

Can I give one piece of advice to all you lads doing Engieering Teaching..
During the summer or when Finished go out and get a job in an engineering works for a while. Go an visit an proper engineering workshop.
The Construction and Engineering courses in UL are not going to give you a proper grasp on workpracitices and methods used in the real world.

Take welding for example.. how much welding are you going to do in college. Can you MMA, MIG, TIG or GAS weld to a high standard when you are finishes... No,, but you can talk about it!

Can you align a milling machine head, adjust the backlash, or even use a rotary table when finished? Probably not if you have only taken the course modules.

Could you machine an left hand double or tripple start thread? Could you use a set of slip gauges properly when machining a slot?
Could you set up the offsets and tool librarys on a CNC machine to industrial standards?

Could you machine a component on a lathe or Mill to +-0.02mm and below (H7 standard) when you are finished?

Could you harden and temper a piece of steel to the required standard?
I am not knocking the course, just saying it can't cover it all, but you are expected to be an expert in the Engineering field.

canned_ulkc

I disagree.

While the teaching of any subject should not be limited by syllabus, and while it's been a long time since I was at Letterkenny Vocational School I'm pretty sure I don't remember any milling machines there....

Though I don't disagree completely; getting an Engineering or Construction job after these courses can only help to improve understanding and widden your vision but it's certainly not going to enhance your pedagogy significantly to spend a few years doing something that is essentially surplus to requirements.

If I were offering any similar advice it'd be to get a deeper understanding of special needs. That's what I intend doing.... especially seeing as the course is very much deficient in that area.

Figerty

The first thing anyone teaching any subject should be is fully competent in their subject area. This includes teaching pedagogies and your intention to deepen your knowledge of special needs is good.

However, how can you stand in front of a class and not be fully equiped with the technical and practical skills to teach this course to industrial standard (at level 5 on the Hetac scale). Unfortunatley this is not the case with the graduates of these courses.

Your point re Milling machines is fair. I am quite sure your reccollection is accurate about the lack of milling machines which in itself is an indiction that the school curriculum isn't up to scratch. Take a trip to any Engieering trade show and have a look at the range of metal cutting machines. You will find that Milling machines *(be they CNC or lathe with live tooling) are the mainstay of metal cutting still.

You could argue as why Leving cert constrution students are doing a woodwork practical day exam in a construction studies subject.

So I will restate my point, if you want to be regarded as an expert in your field (including teaching pedagogies),and be confident in your abilities by your students, then I honestly suggest that you go and do some addtional practical courses after grauation to bring your skills to requried levels.

canned_ulkc

Figerty wrote: »

You could argue as why Leving cert constrution students are doing a woodwork practical day exam in a construction studies subject.

Absolutely you could. You could also argue that the practical day exam should not be worth 25% of the marks.

But then the draft Architectural Technology syllabus is replacing the Construction Studies syllabus which will also remove the much opted for furniture element from the project work. Both good moves in my opinion.

The reason it hasn't been implemented it due to money - that's not likely to change for a while either so for now we're stuck with a syllabus that is outdated, and a draft syllabus not implemented - all while the exam evolves to something that is based considerably more on the still-not-in syllabus than the one which is offically there.

But that moves away from the point - I guess it depends on 2 things:
are you supposed to be an expert as an educator or in the field and
if it's the later then what's the point in third level engineering courses?

Personally, what I expect of myself is to know more than what the syllabus requires; but I don't think I need to actively pour every type of foundation possible to know how to progress with teaching the topic.

slickmcvic

Figerty wrote: »

Can I give one piece of advice to all you lads doing Engieering Teaching..
During the summer or when Finished go out and get a job in an engineering works for a while. Go an visit an proper engineering workshop.
The Construction and Engineering courses in UL are not going to give you a proper grasp on workpracitices and methods used in the real world.

Take welding for example.. how much welding are you going to do in college. Can you MMA, MIG, TIG or GAS weld to a high standard when you are finishes... No,, but you can talk about it!

Can you align a milling machine head, adjust the backlash, or even use a rotary table when finished? Probably not if you have only taken the course modules.

Could you machine an left hand double or tripple start thread? Could you use a set of slip gauges properly when machining a slot?
Could you set up the offsets and tool librarys on a CNC machine to industrial standards?

Could you machine a component on a lathe or Mill to +-0.02mm and below (H7 standard) when you are finished?

Could you harden and temper a piece of steel to the required standard?
I am not knocking the course, just saying it can't cover it all, but you are expected to be an expert in the Engineering field.

...your pretty spot on in what yir sayin,... graduated this course about 5 yrs ago and left reeling at the fact that only 1 practical welding session was covered in the whole 4 years(about 90 minutes)...ended up doing 3 FÁS welding courses and a car maintainence course to brush up for teaching LCA.
...I wouldn't be overly concerned with being able to machine pieces down to thousanths of a millimeter but the course didn't do much for going out into the real world.
...If less time was spent on the physics involved in the operation of the jet engine and a lot more on whats actually involved in teaching practical elements of the courses it would go a long way.
......found I learnt waay more in the FÁS evening courses than in the 4 yrs in UL.....(goood times though!)

Figerty

I agree regarding the day exam, however, in this country where it appears that corruption in endemic, the day exam is still valid as it is still a measure of the ability to cope and perform within a set of constraints; the content of the practical is questionable. I can give you examples of the benefit of this to the student in the real world if you like.

You aren't expected to be either an expert in your field or an expert as an educator... you are required to be both.

My point is this, coming out of this course, could you as perform all the tasks to the highest standard as a teacher/educator in the leaving certificate.

The answer is no.

canned_ulkc wrote: »

Absolutely you could. You could also argue that the practical day exam should not be worth 25% of the marks.

But then the draft Architectural Technology syllabus is replacing the Construction Studies syllabus which will also remove the much opted for furniture element from the project work. Both good moves in my opinion.

The reason it hasn't been implemented it due to money - that's not likely to change for a while either so for now we're stuck with a syllabus that is outdated, and a draft syllabus not implemented - all while the exam evolves to something that is based considerably more on the still-not-in syllabus than the one which is offically there.

But that moves away from the point - I guess it depends on 2 things:
are you supposed to be an expert as an educator or in the field and
if it's the later then what's the point in third level engineering courses?

Personally, what I expect of myself is to know more than what the syllabus requires; but I don't think I need to actively pour every type of foundation possible to know how to progress with teaching the topic.

canned_ulkc

I personally don't feel that technology educators are required to be both. I think that suggesting that points at engineering teachers needing a full blown engineering degree. Just my opinion now - I'm not attacking the idea!

I just think that we are expected to teach to a level, and that level is secondary, not university level. I guess it depends on what you interpret the curriculum and syllabus aims to be.

As I said before, I think there are bigger issues in schools than knowing what is above and beyond the syllabus. I feel a lot of those issues are considerably more pedagogy related than related to teacher's technical ability.

Have to say, I'm enjoying thinking about this.... I just had a thought too that your original point could be very much viewed as a combination of pedagogy and technical (which I hadn't considered before)

10rooney10

inscribe a triangle with sides in the ratio of 6:4:3 in a diameter 90 circle? how is this done?

Figerty

First, get a set square, pencil and compass and then get back to me.

10rooney10

Figerty wrote: »

First, get a set square, pencil and compass and then get back to me.

right figerty, hit me , hows it done?