Sf2 / Sf3: Which is better/ more acclaimed/ more HYPE?

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

for anyone that doesnt wanna watch the full thing, i would recommend around 6:50 i think?

where chunli has no health and risking a chip lose, so he RED parrys the super into a full parry and follows it on with his super, this is why SF3 will always be more competitive, more intense and probably will stay the most acclaimed sf game of all time.
red parry: where you can parry when stuck in a block string, its very hard, i think its 3 frames [cant recall] you have to let go off block and slam forward, making sure joystick is at neutral stage at some point.

I would like to see 3rd strikes review scores compared to world warriors, kthnkbai.

Placebo

WW was ground breaking, but its not as competitive as sf3.
Just like super mario on NES, then super mario brothers on SNES. analogy complete.

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

WW was ground breaking, but its not as competitive as sf3.
Just like super mario on NES, then super mario brothers on SNES. analogy complete.

Ooooh I so got to teach you lads how to argue.

When did competition come into it?

You said acclaimed.

WW is easily a more acclaimed game than 3S.

I am warming to 3S but in no reality will 3S ever be remembered the way WW already is.

3S is liked by people who really, really, really know their fighting games. WW is remembered by a generation.


This is OT but I might split it as actually it's an interesting twist on the "what's best" theme.

Placebo

i couldnt think of a more suitable word. I guess i meant more
UMPH !!!!!!!
HYPE !!!!!!!

ejaculation [no homo] etc

chopperbyrne

The SFII series is far more acclaimed, popular and better than the SFIII series.

Placebo

its hardly better, or else we would be all playing it now.

chopperbyrne

We've played AE in most Saturday casuals over the last month or so and people play ST on GGPO quite a bit. I'd say more often than 3S in this community.

3S isn't even a main event at Evo this year, but HDR is.

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

its hardly better, or else we would be all playing it now.

I'd rather play ST or HDR over 3S anyday, tbh.

There was more cheering for ST at Day of Champions than either of the 3S tournaments i've played in (2nd and 3rd, thank you very much)

animaX

chopperbyrne wrote: »

3S isn't even a main event at Evo this year, but HDR is.

But imagine if third strike was re-released on psn/live with updated sprites!

I'd play third strike before i'd play street fighter 2. Its all down to preference really

Placebo

chopperbyrne wrote: »

We've played AE in most Saturday casuals over the last month or so and people play ST on GGPO quite a bit. I'd say more often than 3S in this community.

3S isn't even a main event at Evo this year, but HDR is.

I'm pretty sure there are SOLE SF2 players, that migrated to HDR, which is why community is alive. I remember seeing lots of pics from evo, the winners, being random people i had'nt heard of in other sf games

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are SOLE SF2 players, that migrated to HDR, which is why community is alive. I remember seeing lots of pics from evo, the winners, being random people i had'nt heard of in other sf games

Does this invalidate their opinions?

Does it matter why they are playing, or is the important thing simply that they ARE playing?

Is there a spoon?

Placebo

wtf? im just arguing choppers point of EVO having HDR over SF3
not to mention that HDR is a newer release. 1999-2008
9 years to be precise.

Ken B

The Beatles first few albums 'A hard day's night' and 'Help!' etc. were the records that brought the band huge popular acclaim and media attention.
And made them the bigggest band in the world(of all time).

But nobody, absolutely nobody who is sane, would claim that these albums were greater than 'Sgt Pepper's lonely heart's band' or 'The Beatles(White Album)'.

I loved everything about SFII when it came out, but would be foolish to claim that it is a better game experience than SFIII.

A-Trak

animaX wrote: »

But imagine if third strike was re-released on psn/live with updated sprites!

I'd put money on a HDR of 3S happening.

Once super sales start to taper off, and now that original xbox online support has been shut down (& Anniversary collection with it,) , a HD remix of 3rd strike would be a definite seller.

Doctor DooM

Ken B wrote: »

The Beatles first few albums 'A hard day's night' and 'Help!' etc. were the records that brought the band huge popular acclaim and media attention.
And made them the bigggest band in the world(of all time).

But nobody, absolutely nobody who is sane, would claim that these albums were greater than 'Sgt Pepper's lonely heart's band' or 'The Beatles(White Album)'.

I loved everything about SFII when it came out, but would be foolish to claim that it is a better game experience than SFIII.

I would say ST is different rather than worse than 3S.

For me ST has a more well rounded dynamic. Parrying is great for teh HYPE but it leaves 3S with a very restricted zoning game (although still possible).

But some people like this, it's not wrong, it's just different.

Sisko

3rd strike and ST etc are totally different street fighter games, both excellent.

But its all down to personal preference here , there is no point in arguing about them like we're comparing world warrior to hyper fighting, or sf4 to ssf4, cause sf2 and 3 are not similar enough for that kind of talk, they play very different and thus its more down to personal opinion on what kinda gameplay people like.

A-Trak wrote: »

I'd put money on a HDR of 3S happening.

Once super sales start to taper off, and now that original xbox online support has been shut down (& Anniversary collection with it,) , a HD remix of 3rd strike would be a definite seller.

As much as I'd love to see this, I actually can't see that happening due to how much of a pain in the hole it'd be to redraw every frame of animation in that game.

It'd take years. HDR had a longer development time than sf4 did.

I mean yeah maybe if capcom dedicate a team as large as the sf4 team to it it would be faster but I don't see them being arsed.

It is however only a matter of time before 3s is released on PSN and live one way or another. Maybe with some kinda filtering/stretching system that makes it a little better looking at higher resolutions but I really can't see them redrawing everything.

Ken B

I'd be happy enough if they smoothed it.....redrawing every frame to thet standard would be nigh on impossible. I'm not sure it would improve it that much, either...

A-Trak

Sisko wrote: »

As much as I'd love to see this, I actually can't see that happening due to how much of a pain in the hole it'd be to redraw every frame of animation in that game.

Completely agree with ya, redrawing all sprites in HD wasn't what I was alluding to, more a reskinned/smoother version with HD backgrounds similar to MvC2 on Live/PSN

Sisko

Ah right cool yeah, well in that case that's a pretty safe bet so.

Placebo

they can apply a filter on it to smooth it out.
They mentioned they wont do it because SF3 is 60fps, so theres too many frames involved and hand drawing them takes forever and costs them loads but however saying that, as Paul mentioned, once the money flow gets static, they will hit that hard.

Ramza

SFIII most acclaimed? Don't know about that, I'd be on par with Chopper/Doom on that point

As you guys all know I love SF2 just as much as I love Alpha just as much as I love 33 just as much as I love SF4

But in terms of which is really better I don't know if I could say, to me 33 is the game I played the most and took most seriously (that's not to say lesser for the other games)

And 33 has the best hype, I'd agree with that anyday. 3s is a hype machine, you can't deny that

chopperbyrne wrote: »

We've played AE in most Saturday casuals over the last month or so and people play ST on GGPO quite a bit. I'd say more often than 3S in this community

Well given I had no idea anyone really played 3s (bar kneecaps, sisko and farz)until Tin came, you could say we've been playing 3s since January in XGC. And the people who play the game regularly (me, dreddybajs and kiki) still play at casuals

Owwmykneecap

chopperbyrne wrote: »

We've played AE in most Saturday casuals over the last month or so and people play ST on GGPO quite a bit. I'd say more often than 3S in this community.

This commuity thought SFIV was the best SF game ever. Says it all.

Azza

owwmykneecap wrote:

This commuity thought SFIV was the best SF game ever. Says it all.

I don't think the community (or the majority of the community) ever said that, although people keep saying they did?

Orim

Yeah, Ken B said it once but later clarified that he meant the most successful street fighter.

All the community is settled on is that we're all willing to play to play 4 because it's the only damn game we can agree on.

Owwmykneecap

Short memories guys.

Did you forget the bitching about super when that was announced too?

Azza

I can't remember anyone complaining about SSF IV when it was annouced.

Everyone was expecting another addition to the series.

Ramza

Well people are going to play games they like, so I don't know if agreement is a factor. People like Super so they play it, people like 33 so they play it etc, regardless of numbers

Sisko

kneecaps think your putting words random irregular posters may have said on here into the mouths of us regular peeps

Evilsbane

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

This commuity thought SFIV was the best SF game ever. Says it all.

Well I'm gonna get called a "scrub" or "n00b" or whatever, but I think it is... well, WAS, until SSF4. Admittedly you can get away with more mashing than in a game with parries like 3S... but it just seems more balanced. Plus FADC is pretty damn technical, so it's not like the skill has gone from the game... it's just harder to get totally pwned (unless there's a large skill gap... I can hold my own with most but for some reason, whenever I come up against Dhalsim it's clear the player has REALLY practiced with him and I get thrashed).

K.O.Kiki

SFIV was more balanced than 3rd Strike, true.

But there's also a much smaller possible skill gap between top players; e.g. top SFIV players are maybe 10 levels above average. In 3S, it's closer to 100 levels.

Hence why Daigo can get beaten by players from any region in SFIV, whereas the Japanese were nigh-on untouchable -for YEARS - in 3S.

Evilsbane

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

SFIV was more balanced than 3rd Strike, true.

But there's also a much smaller possible skill gap between top players; e.g. top SFIV players are maybe 10 levels above average. In 3S, it's closer to 100 levels.

Hence why Daigo can get beaten by players from any region in SFIV, whereas the Japanese were nigh-on untouchable -for YEARS - in 3S.

Why is that a good thing? If there's TOO much of a skill gap, then the match won't be fun for either player. It's nice that one can become elite, but one can go too far with elitism.

Placebo

It wasnt to do with balance, it was more to do with the technical aspects and execution of the game. E.g: when usa team first went to SBO with justin wong, 3 vs 3 , ohnuki's chun alone eliminates the whole team.

Dreddybajs

Evilsbane wrote: »

Why is that a good thing? If there's TOO much of a skill gap, then the match won't be fun for either player. It's nice that one can become elite, but one can go too far with elitism.

If you can have more levels of skill in the game, the game is almost by definition deeper. elitism has nothing to do with it

Azza

Being deeper does not make a game better.

ST is clearly less deep than SF 3 or SF 4.

There is more gameplay mechanics to master in both of those games than ST. Yet many people prefer it over 3 and 4.

Some people like it simply becauses its faster and requires a higher level of dexterity than its successors. Matches are over much quicker, single attacks do much more damage. There is a tactical/mind games aspect to the game as well but its not as deep as its sucessors. Still people who like the game take the package as a whole.

Dreddybajs

I didn't say it made it better, ST is better than SF4 for reasons other than that :pac:

Azza

Care to elborate on them?

Dreddybajs

Faster, rewards aggression more than SF4, meaties are more viable, no comeback mechanic, a more comprehensive poking/footsie game (sf4 footsies are imo limited by the focus system), 0 frame throws and throw softening rather than full teching (providing more incentive to play aggressively and go for a throw), and probably a lot more but that's just off the top of my head.

Pretty much the only things I don't like about it are the huge strength of the mixup characters' mixups (ST claw primarily), the execution barrier with regard to reversals etc. (though honestly this is something that you can learn with time), and the silliness of some supers whether because they're too strong (Boxer), or useless (plenty of characters I'm sure, though the grapplers come to mind).

Ramza

There's just as much stuff if not more to master in ST than there is in SF4/SFIII. I don't want this thread to go OT but yeah. I wouldn't agree at all that SFIV is as deep as ST (don't know about SFIII, maybe same)

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

Faster, rewards aggression more than SF4, meaties are more viable, no comeback mechanic, a more comprehensive poking/footsie game (sf4 footsies are imo limited by the focus system), 0 frame throws and throw softening rather than full teching (providing more incentive to play aggressively and go for a throw), and probably a lot more but that's just off the top of my head.

Agreed with the first 2 points. However they are just personal preferences, some prefer the slower pace of SF IV.

Disagree on meaties. I think they are viable, yes reversals are easier but after you punish a few whiffed block reversals, your opponents will stop doing them ever time. Good players won't reversal every time as they know how risky it is. I use meaties alot.

Agree with third point, but as you know not all Ultra's are created equal, so depending on match ups some are almost never used and thus create no comeback mechanic. However this is probably my biggest gripe about SF IV.

Totally disagree with your opinion on the footsies/poking game. FA are just another variable to deal with in the ground game. If you have a focus spaming opponent, then empty jumps and dash throws are great for dealing with them. There is so many other factors like some characters having useless focus attacks. Others have great armour breakers. The range and speed of a poke versus the range of the focus attack etc etc. IMO footsies are fine in SF 4 series.

As for throws. I prefer the system in 3 and 4. I like teching throws. Takes more skill than the throw softens in ST. Learning delayed teching, and the correct frame traps to deal with delayed or mash teching is something I much prefer over the simple mash throw and throw soften approach of ST.

Dreddybajs

Azza wrote: »

Agreed with the first 2 points. However they are just personal preferences, some prefer the slower pace of SF IV.

Well yeah, it's all personal preferences, I'm not claiming that any opinion I hold is objective.

Disagree on meaties. I think they are viable, yes reversals are easier but after you punish a few whiffed block reversals, your opponents will stop doing them ever time. Good players won't reversal every time as they know how risky it is. I use meaties alot.

Backdash invunerablility contributes as much as the reversals, anyway I think meaties are much stronger in ST especially when you can make reversals safe in sf4.

empty jumps and dash throws, great armour breakers....IMO footsies are fine in SF 4 series.

What do these have to do with footsies?

As for throws. I prefer the system in 3 and 4. I like teching throws. Takes more skill than the throw softens in ST. Learning delayed teching, and the correct frame traps to deal with delayed or mash teching is something I much prefer over the simple mash throw and throw soften approach of ST.

Fair enough, just a matter of preference

Ramza

Mash throws are very hard to mash/escape properly, regardless of how stupid that sounds :pac:

But yeah like said before I just prefer other games to SFIV(reasons which we are debating now and others), still doesn't take away from it at all being a good/enjoyable game

Sisko

the throw system in 2 was vastly inferior to the later games imo. I'm actually surprised to hear people prefer it.

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

Backdash invunerablility contributes as much as the reversals, anyway I think meaties are much stronger in ST especially when you can make reversals safe.

Backdash can't be dealt with by option selects. I know I'm stating the obvious but cornered trap players won't back dash if they know whats good for them.

As you said you can FADC reversals to make them safe. But this comes at the considerable price of normally 3 bars of super meter. Again its match up dependant the shoto's have very strong reversals that lead to big damage, while other characeters have allow them to escape while other characters have nothing. Its just the most widely used characters are the ones with good reversals. Mind tactics come to play with baiting reversals. A player needs to know his opponents wake up options and what level of meter he has and weigh up the risks.

Dreddybajs wrote:

What do these have to do with footsies?

Stating the obvious again but if someone is hurting your footsies game with FA then mix things up, you don't just continue doing something thats getting you killed, yes going airborne isn't footsies but if makes your opponent stop using focus attacks then you can go back to footsies. Some speicals are used in footsie wars and break armour or hit twice and dash throwing is a part of footsies.

Ramza

I liked the throw system in two, two button throws lead to a somewhat controversial matter in FGs ; the kara throw(I know alpha 3 used two button throws but kara throw wasn't until 3s). Not to go off topic but some people frown on kara throws, as far as my opinion goes, I'm fine with them I guess, given I played Ken in Vanilla, but still they're pretty stupid. Even though SFIII introduced throw teching I still think throws should be guaranteed damage, but still should be allowed to be softened

As far as focus goes I'm not a fan of it. FADC only benefits a few characters and it's pretty useless as far as the rest of the cast go. My dislike of FADC ties in with that of the meter system in SFIV. Also, footsies being being based on reaction (i.e ; playing footsies is using your pokes to counter or bait your opponents), the focus system seems to sit somewhere uneven in that regard. Giving someone an option to cop out of footsies is stupid imo. Jumping and dash-in throwing shouldn't really need to have anything to do with it as footsies should be all based on the ground and your limbs and reaction speed. I'm middle of the fence as far as focus goes, and then you also have character who have bad focus attacks in that regard, so it seems like a double negative really

Yreval

Another fan of SF2's throws here - I think SF4 would be improved quite a bit if ST's throw system (or even HF's, since backdashes might even remove the necessity of teching/softening IMO) was transplanted directly into the game. Strong throws encourage attacking play and improve character balance.