Fox cub

Sapsorrow

Not sure if this is the right forum or whether it should be in animal welfare? My parents have rescued a fox cub from some /snip/ farmer who killed the mother and the other cubs and then for some reason decided to keep the last one trapped in a metal barrel for the last week. It's in good nick a bit traumatized and it's hair is a bit scruffy but alert and interested. They're not sure whether it still needs milk or not, it's about the size of a 5 week old cat my mum reckons. Does anyone know anything about feeding it, would lactose free cat milk do? Thet're giving it wet cat food, duck eggs and water at the moment.
They're going to mind it for now and then I'm going to take it up here and look after it until it's ready to go it's own way again as there's no sheep farmers around here who're likely to shoot and there's a nature reserve right behind my house that's protected so it should be safe when it's old enough. Any advice would be very much appreciated. We have had some experience of minding orphaned/injured wild animals (a badger cub and a hare, a few birds etc) but never a fox! I have 5 cats which I know foxes have been known to kill but I was thinking seeing as it's a baby it will learn to see them as part of the family with time?

***Mod edit***
Mod edit--Farmers post in this forum so be careful with your choice of words.

Sapsorrow

This might help give an indication of it's age...



Should have mentioned when they have it a bit fattened up and less stressed they plan of de-worming and de-fleaing it too.

mymo

I believe fox cubs are born between late february and May, and not able to fend for themselves until 4 or 5 months. They're brown all over and adult markings develop after about 6 - 8 weeks I think, someone else may know better. Think the feed from mum until around 3 months, and since they're related to dogs I'd imagine that the replacement milk you get from the vet for pups would be ok, along with cat or dog food, maybe some raw meat, chicken wings etc as it gets bigger.
Worming and a flea drops would be good idea, and little contact unless feeding if you're hoping to release it, although not sure how you'd do that, you would have to keep feeding until it got better at hunting.
Someone may have better advice, this is only what I've gotten from watching nature programs and reading, so might be wrong.

lrushe

It looks about 4-5 months old so it should be ok on soilds, mince meat, chicken, turkey and a small bit of good puppy food will help fatten it up. If you are planning on releasing it please use a 'hands off' approach to raising it otherwise it won't fear humans when its out on its own and end up in trouble. When you do go to release it you will need to continue to feed it for awhile as it won't have any hunting skills to begin with and gradually reduce its food as it becomes more aclimatised to the wild.

Sapsorrow

Oop sorry about the farmer comment I just get fed up with this sort of thing happening all the time where I grew up and just find it very upsetting and hard to understand and get a big angry about it.
Thanks for the advice, I'll let them know about the pup milk I didn't know such a thing existed. We'd be happy to keep it as a pet but my mum got the idea somewhere that they tend to got a bit wild again after a year or so. I'd imagine seeing as you're not going to neuter them they get frisky at a certain age and probabky go off doing their own thing. When we had the badger we built an outside run and house and just started leaving the door open and continued to feed him for about a year. He just came back less and less often and then never came back at all after a point so I'd imagine we'll try that approach again with the fox. Of course if he/she is happy to stay with us that'd be lovely too.

lrushe

Sapsorrow wrote: »

We'd be happy to keep it as a pet .

Please don't keep it as a pet, foxes are wild animals, they should be free. The best thing you can do for this animal is to keep it wild and then release it later in the year.

Sapsorrow

lrushe wrote: »

Please don't keep it as a pet, foxes are wild animals, they should be free. The best thing you can do for this animal is to keep it wild and then release it later in the year.

Yep I'll do me best to encourage it to go back to the wild but if it doesn't work out I'll keep looking after him/her as best I can. It's obviously not ideal but I happen to be lucky enough to live in the middle of no where with woods and fields all around so it would have a very good quality of life even if still being fed by a human. Mum was saying she's going to contact the ISPCA in the mean time and see if theres anyone who specialises in orphaned foxes to see on the off chance if they can take him/her.

TooManyDogs

I had a fox in foster last summer, a similar age. I kept her in an isolated pen away from the house and fed her raw food, released her in August and she remained very wary of us. We only approached her twice a day, once to check water in the morning and feed her in the evening, every time she saw us she'd hide in the house. We were thrilled she stayed so wild and have our fingers crossed that she's doing well. We're lucky that although it's agriculture land all around us it's primarily veggie farming and no livestock.

Good luck with your fox and do try and keep her wild to release her.

mymo

There's a rescue place for wild animals I think, I'll take a look online.
Do your best to get it back into wild, it really would be best for the fox.
You could try calling this lot
http://www.animalmagic.ie/
Says they educate about wild animals os they may be able to help or advise.
Or these http://www.cottagerescue.ie/wildlife.html

Iancar29

lrushe wrote: »

Please don't keep it as a pet, foxes are wild animals, they should be free. The best thing you can do for this animal is to keep it wild and then release it later in the year.

Theres no point in releasing an animal back into the wild if the odds are stacked against it at living an normal life.

Keeping it would do no harm.

" A fox is a wild animal" , you could say that about any animal really.

So ye , Sapsorrow , if you want to keep it as a pet , do so. Specially if the fox is attached to you s in any way.

TooManyDogs

Just remembered this new website, about wild animal first aid and resourses

www.irishwildlifematters.ie

TooManyDogs

Iancar29 wrote: »

Theres no point in releasing an animal back into the wild if the odds are stacked against it at living an normal life.

But the odds aren't stacked against it living a normal life. As long as it doesnt get much human interaction for the summer it should be perfectly able to be released. I know people who have tried to make pets out of rescued fox cubs and it very rarely works. The fox ends up used to humans enough to not be scared of them but not friendly enough to be comfortable with close human interaction, so worst of both worlds.

lrushe

Iancar29 wrote: »

Theres no point in releasing an animal back into the wild if the odds are stacked against it at living an normal life.

Keeping it would do no harm.

" A fox is a wild animal" , you could say that about any animal really.

So ye , Sapsorrow , if you want to keep it as a pet , do so. Specially if the fox is attached to you s in any way.

Pretty sure my dogs and cat aren't wild, they are domesticated pets. Foxes are wild, why do Widlife Organisations put wild animals down if they can't be returned to the wild instead of finding pet homes for them, the answer is because they aren't meant to live as pets.
So I must respectfully disagree, keeping it will do it alot of harm.

Sapsorrow

Thanks for the replies everyone, just to clarify I DO plan on releasing the animal to the wild when possible (assuming we don't find someone with more experience to take it), I really don't need a fox as a pet my dog takes enough of my time and energy as it is and I would be concerned that it might go for one of my cats. I think I used the term 'pet' a bit loosely I consider the wild birds I feed to be my pets in a sense. I don't see much harm in continuing to feed it as long as needs be though if it comes looking for it. I often put food out for a wild fox and the hedgehogs that comes into the yard in the winter. I'll ring mum and dad tomorrow and tell them to make sure they don't try and rub it.

bunny shooter

Keeping a wild animal captive no matter how you do it is even more cruel than if it was killed along with the rest of it's family?

Sapsorrow

bunny shooter wrote: »

Keeping a wild animal captive no matter how you do it is even more cruel than if it was killed along with the rest of it's family?

Really? How is that? I mean I have a cat flap and my pets come and go as they please, they live in the most beautiful countryside, have good quality food 24/7, endless cuddles including under the covers ones when it's cold, lots of toys and get taken to the vet whenever they need it. If theoretically I were to keep the fox it could expect the exact same lifestyle so how is that as cruel as drowning it exactly?

jap gt

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Really? How is that? I mean I have a cat flap and my pets come and go as they please, they live in the most beautiful countryside, have good quality food 24/7, endless cuddles including under the covers ones when it's cold, lots of toys and get taken to the vet whenever they need it. If theoretically I were to keep the fox it could expect the exact same lifestyle so how is that as cruel as drowning it exactly?

its not only cruel im fairly sure its illegal to keep any wild animals

babychuckles

Helen who works at the sunbeam vets in blackpool often deals with orphan fox cubs
if you wish to ring her the work number is 021 4391600

Sapsorrow

babychuckles wrote: »

Helen who works at the sunbeam vets in blackpool often deals with orphan fox cubs
if you wish to ring her the work number is 021 4391600

Excellent thanks a mil for that!

Sapsorrow

jap gt wrote: »

its not only cruel im fairly sure its illegal to keep any wild animals

In fairness this is getting a bit OTT, I came here to look for advice on how to do the best thing for an animal thats had a hard time I don't think it's fair that it's being implied that any of my intentions are cruel or as cruel as what the farmer did to the other cubs and mother. I won't bother coming back to the forum if this is the sort of attitude I have to deal with when I come looking for help. Having said that thanks again to the people who have bothered giving me advice, links and phone numbers it's very much appreciated.

sikastag

All due respect, is it a bit OTT because youre not hearing what you want to hear? Relocating fox (even adult - not young one in question) will result in it being (I pressume) transferred to an area outside its effective home range and subsequently a loss of territory and death. Also, as allready mentioned, treating it like a pet is not good, close contact with humans is not ideal for both you (smell and possible loss of digits from hand feeding) but also foxy as when released its enviroment will essentially be alien to it. Also the legaliy of it may be an issue. Not sure on that one. Also you mentioned the little fella is being 'fattened' but that he looked quite alert and bright upon taking posession. They (as of most wild mammals) are naturally leaner than their domestic counterparts. Might be worth contacting local authority/ professional on this topic.

clivej

Yes you cam keep theam as pets but they tend to be very lively.Read this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055847511&highlight=thomastown

Rovi

By way of a cautious warning, the link in the post above is to a thread in the Shooting forum.
There's nothing in that particular thread that might cause anyone any offence (unless they're vehemently opposed to the keeping of pet foxes), but can I please ask visitors to be careful about clicking up into the Shooting/Hunting forum from there?
There ARE other threads there that could possibly cause offence or distress, but I want to stress that those threads are about legal activities and were posted in the Shooting/Hunting forum without any intention to offend anyone outside the shooting/hunting community.

TooManyDogs

Sapsorrow wrote: »

, just to clarify I DO plan on releasing the animal to the wild when possible

The OP has already said several times that they plan on releasing the fox so maybe everyone should leave them alone now?

Dusty87

TooManyDogs wrote: »

The OP has already said several times that they plan on releasing the fox so maybe everyone should leave them alone now?

the best imo would be to give it to someone who deals with that sort of thing. I think it would be very hard for someone normal to rear it for release. First thing, it would require a very large pen, much larger than a dog would need. And pens of that size cost money. Someone who deals wit this sort of thing would have the relevent set up.

Sapsorrow

No it's nothing to do with not hearing what I wanted to hear I came here looking for advice and opinions and I'm happy I got them. I find it extremely offensive however being compared to some sick person who drowns foxes for the hell of it even when they don't have the 'excuse' of being a sheep farmer. That's just not fair when it's quite obvious that I'm an animal lover and am going out of my way to help the creature.

As far as space goes we've a huge field beside the house and my dads a chippy so he'd be the one building the run etc. if we can't find someone willing to take it.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll leave this thread go now before I offend anyone else.

patakadarragh

You shouldnt criticise a farmer for protecting his livelyhood.:mad:

planetX

patakadarragh wrote: »

You shouldnt criticise a farmer for protecting his livelyhood.:mad:

he put a fox into a metal barrel for a week, I think that goes beyond protecting his livelihood well into the spectrum of wanton cruelty.

Good for you sapsorrow for doing what you could. Good luck!

Morganna

i used to do a fox rescue in the uk.
Give the cub ram meat,dog food ,and household scraps.Day old chicks if you can get them.
As little contact as possible ,do not handle it or pet it.
Just put food and water in and come away.I used to use a box on its side with the opening facing towards a wall.Therefor the cub could hide in the box when being cleaned out or fed.
as i said as little human contact as possible.I rehabilatated many cubs that where succesfully released back into the wild.Good luck ,and well done in rescuing it.

star-pants

A warning - we're not to get into debating about farmers - we're discussing this particular incident

Dusty87

Morganna wrote: »

I rehabilatated many cubs that where succesfully released back into the wild.Good luck ,and well done in rescuing it.

Morganna i was watching a programme one day, Wildlife SOS or something like that. They had reports of a fox cub and arrived at the area, they left the cub at the nearest fox den as they could released a unprotected species once they had it captured and removed from the area. They did the same with a canada goose. Is this a new law or what??

Feargal as Luimneach

Sapsorrow wrote: »

In fairness this is getting a bit OTT, I came here to look for advice on how to do the best thing for an animal thats had a hard time I don't think it's fair that it's being implied that any of my intentions are cruel or as cruel as what the farmer did to the other cubs and mother. I won't bother coming back to the forum if this is the sort of attitude I have to deal with when I come looking for help. Having said that thanks again to the people who have bothered giving me advice, links and phone numbers it's very much appreciated.

You are not being cruel. Some people are being hypocritical. It's ok to shoot foxes but it's cruel you saving the fox cub from the barrel.

Discodog

If you want the best advice & a great read get Practical Wildlife Care by Les Stocker of Tiggywinkles Wildlife Hospital. Les has rehabilitated & released a huge number of foxes & every other form of wildlife. His book The Complete Fox is superb.

You can phone Tiggywinkles - the number is on their website, if you need specific advice. The biggest problem is overcoming the natural desire to want to befriend the cub. It is essential that it retains a fear of humans in order to be safer in the wild.

morganafay

I hope it will be wild enough to release, but if it isn't, then I don't see anything wrong with still feeding it. If you're in the middle of nowhere then it's not in too much danger from other people.

Well done for saving him or her, that's horrible that he left it to die slowly Whether killing them is right or wrong, he didn't have to do that.

Morganna

please dont release it till september or october.And then leave food out for it .Disco dog has given you good advice about Les stocker and st tiggywinkles .by the way once again well done in rescuing it.

Morganna

Sapsorrow wrote: »

In fairness this is getting a bit OTT, I came here to look for advice on how to do the best thing for an animal thats had a hard time I don't think it's fair that it's being implied that any of my intentions are cruel or as cruel as what the farmer did to the other cubs and mother. I won't bother coming back to the forum if this is the sort of attitude I have to deal with when I come looking for help. Having said that thanks again to the people who have bothered giving me advice, links and phone numbers it's very much appreciated.

well done Sapsorrow in rescuing the cub .

ghost_ie

Well done rescuing the cub. Probably the best thing to do is get onto St. Tiggywinkles and get advice. My only worry about letting the fox go back to the wild is that he might be considered an interloper by the local fox population and attacked. Good luck with him - hope things turn out well

jwshooter

Morganna wrote: »

i used to do a fox rescue in the uk.
Give the cub ram meat,dog food ,and household scraps.Day old chicks if you can get them.
As little contact as possible ,do not handle it or pet it.
Just put food and water in and come away.I used to use a box on its side with the opening facing towards a wall.Therefor the cub could hide in the box when being cleaned out or fed.
as i said as little human contact as possible.I rehabilatated many cubs that where succesfully released back into the wild.Good luck ,and well done in rescuing it.

i know several game keepers in the uk not far from gatwick ,they have a major problem with people letting foxes form the city out .

many have had ops done , when moved from a environment of scavenging and getting hand outs ,the country side is a cruel world for them .

i rescued a sika calf some time ago from a RTA ,the temptation was great to keep him ,i had the ground etc to do so .but common sense prevailed and i let him off near where i picked him up .

your cub is to old to be a tame pet ,ideally its eyes would have to be closed .

to rear it and release it would be cruel with the animal having "NO" chance to keep it the cub has some chance .

i would not knock the OP for doing what there doing they did not look for this it was landed on them ,plus the op is trying to find out whats route to go .

Discodog

Any wildlife rescue should know the importance of matching the release site to the animals home environment but foxes are quite adaptable. Tiggywinkles have successfully released urban foxes onto Clapham Common & Heathrow.

I totally disagree that this cub cannot be released provided that it is rehabilitated & conditioned properly. I know of foxes that have been in care for many months & then successfully released. In assessing a release site one has to consider the risk from hunting & shooting as well as traffic etc.

Morganna

well jw shooter,firstly im not nor ever was from a city.Secondly i had a good network of safe release sites on friendly farmers land safely away from shooting and hunting.Also when one releases afox back into the wild ,they are wild and not tame.Also food is left out for a few weeks ,to help the fox.A lot of planning and research goes in to it firstly.
Also the reason wh i say not to release till september or october is for a reason.September/october is the time the cubs disperse from there parents and go and set up their own territorys.So thats why that time is the best time to release the cub.

Sapsorrow

Fox cub went to a new home in Killarney today. A woman there who rescues horses and foxes is minding her until she can be moved to a charity in England that re-releases them in groups. Thanks for all the replies everyone.

jwshooter

Morganna wrote: »

well jw shooter,firstly im not nor ever was from a city.Secondly i had a good network of safe release sites on friendly farmers land safely away from shooting and hunting.Also when one releases afox back into the wild ,they are wild and not tame.Also food is left out for a few weeks ,to help the fox.A lot of planning and research goes in to it firstly.
Also the reason wh i say not to release till september or october is for a reason.September/october is the time the cubs disperse from there parents and go and set up their own territorys.So thats why that time is the best time to release the cub.

that post really goes to show how naive some people really are , does the fox know all this research ?.

aug,sep,oct is the time when keepers really start to control vermin with a vengeance ,this is the time of the year game is realised tall crops are cut making it ideal for the destruction of vermin ..

foxes will travel many miles in a nite especially dog foxes looking for new territory/food/love etc .
so much for your safe farm idea

your looking at wild life from a human point of view ,which does not help the animal in the long run .

<snip>

Morganna

<snip>

Morganna

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Fox cub went to a new home in Killarney today. A woman there who rescues horses and foxes is minding her until she can be moved to a charity in England that re-releases them in groups. Thanks for all the replies everyone.

well done Sapsorrow .

Feargal as Luimneach

jwshooter wrote: »

that post really goes to show how naive some people really are , does the fox know all this research ?.

aug,sep,oct is the time when keepers really start to control vermin with a vengeance ,this is the time of the year game is realised tall crops are cut making it ideal for the destruction of vermin ..

foxes will travel many miles in a nite especially dog foxes looking for new territory/food/love etc .
so much for your safe farm idea

your looking at wild life from a human point of view ,which does not help the animal in the long run .

<snip>

Jwshhoter you coming across as an arrogant fool. Nobody is saying that the fox cub will make it and it will live to old age. It probably won't make it. But at the end of the day it's better than when it was stuck in the barrel.

sikastag

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Jwshhoter you coming across as an arrogant fool. Nobody is saying that the fox cub will make it and it will live to old age. It probably won't make it. But at the end of the day it's better than when it was stuck in the barrel.

Dont think JW was saying keep it in the barrel fergal.

(i would not knock the OP for doing what there doing they did not look for this it was landed on them ,plus the op is trying to find out whats route to go .) JW did write this in his post did he not? Sorry I cant figure out that multi quote craic.

No more than my earlier post, it was not an attempt to knock the ops idea. It was simply to raise a few issues regarding the rearing and possible relocation of the fox. Granted some of the possible outcomes for foxy might seem extreme or undesirable (the barrel being no exception) but such is nature.

JW also highlighted his own experience with a Sika calf and fair play to him, his better judgement prevailed. I would consider this somewhat helpful information???

I think the general jist of things is in these 'unexpected' situations be it foxy or any other wild animal, ideally the wild is the place for it. However if it must be rescued/kept then try and keep it as 'wild' as possible if the intention is to release. Keeping as a pet is a whole different kettle of fish/fox/rabbits/flamingos.

Fox cub went to a new home in Killarney today. A woman there who rescues horses and foxes is minding her until she can be moved to a charity in England that re-releases them in groups. Thanks for all the replies everyone. (Sapsorrow)

Fairplay to OP for looking for advice, hope it works out and hopefully thats the last barrel you'll come across with a fox in it.

Morganna

Jw was definetley coming across as arrogant.

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Jwshhoter you coming across as an arrogant fool. Nobody is saying that the fox cub will make it and it will live to old age. It probably won't make it. But at the end of the day it's better than when it was stuck in the barrel.

where is the mod with his snip hear , i did not try to insult any one i just pointed out the facts .

if this offends the people ,thats there problem .

jwshooter

Morganna wrote: »

Jw was definetley coming across as arrogant.

why please explane .

star-pants

jwshooter wrote: »

where is the mod with his snip hear , i did not try to insult any one i just pointed out the facts .

(I'm a she btw) I'm not online 24/7 - and if you've a problem with a post please use the report post function, the red triangle with an exclamation mark in the centre.

To be fair, you came across a little sarcastic in your posts so some people may have been rubbed up the wrong way.


However we don't allow insults either like calling people fools etc.
So I'll ask now for everyone to keep things clean please.

jwshooter

star-pants wrote: »

(I'm a she btw) I'm not online 24/7 - and if you've a problem with a post please use the report post function, the red triangle with an exclamation mark in the centre.

To be fair, you came across a little sarcastic in your posts so some people may have been rubbed up the wrong way.


However we don't allow insults either like calling people fools etc.
So I'll ask now for everyone to keep things clean please.

what about arrogant ?.

whats amazes me about this hole thing is the total disregard for this fox ,
from the farmer to the people that have a fluffy image of what happens in the real world .

these animals that have been hand reared ,rehabilitate and realised back into the wild should be tagged ,with the number of the sanctuary responsible .

this would severe a few purposes .

i would suggest the information from this would not be to your liking .