The things that never got answered

joe123

Was just thinking of what we never found out, or never found out properly during the six seasons. Maybe ive missed some of the answers but off the top of my head heres what I can think of.

Walt and his powers
The meaning of the numbers/why were they so common
How did Jacobs mammy destory an entire village
What was so special about the ash
Where did the lighthouse come from.
What exactly was the island/where did it come from
What was the Hurley bird
Why was the island so hard find/get off without certain co-ordinates
Who found out the co-ordinates
How did Jacob become so enlightend on everything

These are what I can think of now I know theres more. Feel free to add or even answer some of them but please dont answer with a made up theory where you just assume.

Myself and Jimbling had a big debate on here the last day of where I asked the question how did Jacob become so enlightend and he said once you drink the drink it was clear you did. But "The End" showed us that this clearly wasnt the case.

RolandIRL

dunno about the rest but was it Flocke who said that Jacob had a thing for numbers? the numbers were the candidates "degree of rotation" on the lighthouse mirror. anti-climatic explaination but still a valid one.

wes

I taught the bird things was a mistake. Remember hearing that some where.

prinz

joe123 wrote: »

Walt and his powers...

He didn't really have any magic powers. Just seemed to be tuned into the island more than others.

joe123 wrote: »

The meaning of the numbers/why were they so common...

No meaning, just numbers that related to the candidates and kept recurring. Nothing extra special.

joe123 wrote: »

How did Jacobs mammy destory an entire village...

Perhaps the guardian of the island can pull a smokie when they need to and go bad ass. I think Jacob had a soft spot for humans so that's why he never did it. The Mother had no such concern. She'd kill anyone who got in her way.

joe123 wrote: »

What was so special about the ash...

It was the ash of guardians. It had magic powers.

joe123 wrote: »

Where did the lighthouse come from....

Jacob.

joe123 wrote: »

What exactly was the island/where did it come from....

It was an island. A magic island.

joe123 wrote: »

What was the Hurley bird....

A bird with a funny call.

joe123 wrote: »

Why was the island so hard find/get off without certain co-ordinates....

If it wasn't it wouldn't be such a secret island.:rolleyes:

joe123 wrote: »

Who found out the co-ordinates....

Jacob knew where it was at all times. The Dharma Initiative also had a way of finding wherever it was at a given time by tracking EM anomolies.

joe123 wrote: »

How did Jacob become so enlightend on everything.

He read the manual, the info got passed on from guardian to guardian through taking the drink. It's also clear that the guardian could organise things their own way.

joe123 wrote: »

Myself and Jimbling had a big debate on here the last day of where I asked the question how did Jacob become so enlightend and he said once you drink the drink it was clear you did. But "The End" showed us that this clearly wasnt the case.

How did it show that it clearly wasn't the case?

joe123

prinz wrote: »

He didn't really have any magic powers. Just seemed to be tuned into the island more than others.



No meaning, just numbers that related to the candidates and kept recurring. Nothing extra special.



Perhaps the guardian of the island can pull a smokie when they need to and go bad ass. I think Jacob had a soft spot for humans so that's why he never did it. The Mother had no such concern. She'd kill anyone who got in her way.



It was the ash of guardians. It had magic powers.



Jacob.



It was an island. A magic island.



A bird with a funny call.



If it wasn't it wouldn't be such a secret island.:rolleyes:



Jacob knew where it was at all times. The Dharma Initiative also had a way of finding wherever it was at a given time by tracking EM anomolies.



He read the manual, the info got passed on from guardian to guardian through taking the drink. It's also clear that the guardian could organise things their own way.



How did it show that it clearly wasn't the case?

Are you joking in some of those answers? Seriously?

And it clearly showed that this drink didnt make them enlightend at all. Jack said "he wasnt sure" but the obvious one was when Hurley became the protector he repeatedly said he doesnt have a clue what to do and even asked Ben to help him because he didnt know what he was at. A clear of sign of not being very enlightend if you ask me!

Perhaps the guardian of the island can pull a smokie when they need to and go bad ass. I think Jacob had a soft spot for humans so that's why he never did it. The Mother had no such concern. She'd kill anyone who got in her way.

That couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Not having a go but in LOST thats actually one of the things they do explain. Jacob created the smoke monster by accidently killing and throwing his brother down into the cave of light!

prinz

joe123 wrote: »

Are you joking in some of those answers? Seriously?

Go on, what answers do you consider a joke?

joe123 wrote: »

And it clearly showed that this drink didnt make them enlightend at all. Jack said "he wasnt sure" but the obvious one was when Hurley became the protector he repeatedly said he doesnt have a clue what to do and even asked Ben to help him because he didnt know what he was at. A clear of sign of not being very enlightend if you ask me!

Ben told him he could do things his way, so he really doesn't need to learn everything from Jack or Jacob. Also he asked Ben to help him, in much the same way as Jacob asked Richard to help him and stay on the island with him.

Essien

The main problem I have with the show as a whole was that the writers just seemed more concerned with keeping fans guessing than keeping the show completely consistant. There are some avenues that they explored, some more important than others, that were simply abandoned or just made no sense.

I have no problem with the more mysterious aspects of the show not being answered, most things I can simply accept at face value when you consider it's just a sci fi tv series but there were definitely times where it seemed for one reason or another that the writers changed their mind (or something to that effect) after placing emphasis on somthing. Walt was a perfect example of this, now I've read some wishy washy explanations of his story but none of them fly imo. Another one was Libby, albeit not as major as Walt, but it was very interesting when she showed up in the same institute as Hurley or had a chat with Des about his round the world race in the boat, why include this?

I could probably find a few more but thats not what I'm trying to do. Now I know they were given a set timeline, but the problem is they knew when it would end from around the time season 3 was airing, thats 3 years ffs, sort it out tbh. If anything, they could have elaborated even more due to this, surely they didn'y plan for anything longer than 6 seasons? My point is, it was never a case that the writers didn't have enough time to tie up the mysteries, we know now they never had any intention in doing so. They just seemed way to fond of keeping the audience guessing, even if it meant contradicting themselves or relentlessly side stepping giving out a simple answer when it would have just made more sense to do so in a lot of cases.

prinz

Essien wrote: »

Another one was Libby, albeit not as major as Walt, but it was very interesting when she showed up in the same institute as Hurley or had a chat with Des about his round the world race in the boat, why include this?

Almost all their lives intersected at some point in the flashbacks. Why include any of it? It made for an interesting tale that's why.

joe123

prinz wrote: »

He didn't really have any magic powers. Just seemed to be tuned into the island more than others.

Yeah they never explained it. Again built up Walt to be a very special character to then just drop the idea.

No meaning, just numbers that related to the candidates and kept recurring. Nothing extra special.

Fair enough but the way they built them up in the first few seasons it was a pretty poor explanation to give us.

Perhaps the guardian of the island can pull a smokie when they need to and go bad ass. I think Jacob had a soft spot for humans so that's why he never did it. The Mother had no such concern. She'd kill anyone who got in her way

.

Im sorry but thats just ridiculous.

It was the ash of guardians. It had magic powers.

Ash of the guardians? How the hell did they get the ash of the guardians?

It was an island. A magic island.

I thought this was a joke. Thats like summing up the entire mystery of lost....The smoke monster = magic, Polar bear=magic, Landing on the island twice=magic, funny visions=magic, crazy horse vision=magic. You see where im coming from?

A bird with a funny call.

Another place I thought you were joking. This bird which kept appearing....is just a funny bird or magic.

If it wasn't it wouldn't be such a secret island.:rolleyes:

My question was how did it become so secret and who found out the proper co-ordinates in the first place?

Jacob knew where it was at all times. The Dharma Initiative also had a way of finding wherever it was at a given time by tracking EM anomolies.

Again your just assuming. Jacob was clueless, how did he build a magic lighthouse?

He read the manual, the info got passed on from guardian to guardian through taking the drink. It's also clear that the guardian could organise things their own way.

Another one which looks like a joke. A "guardian manual" ? Also going by Jack not being sure what to do to Hurleys obvious confusion the drink isnt this magical enlightenment potion!

Essien

prinz wrote: »

Almost all their lives intersected at some point in the flashbacks. Why include any of it? It made for an interesting tale that's why.

I'll accept the majority of the mysteries in the show, but thats just silly. So the writers said one day "Oh hey, Libby doesn't really have a back story does she? No, let's just get a really suspicious shot of her on her own in Santa Rosa!"......Really?

I'm not one of these fans calling for the writers heads but I can definitely admit to some of the glaring inconsistancies that have been apparent throughout the show. This is one of them.

prinz

joe123 wrote: »

Yeah they never explained it. Again built up Walt to be a very special character to then just drop the idea.

They had to drop the character as the actor was growing too fast season on season. He was never all that important in the long run. The others just wanted to do tests on him and that because there was something odd about him. Nothing more to it.

joe123 wrote: »

Fair enough but the way they built them up in the first few seasons it was a pretty poor explanation to give us..

They didn't build them up. They were just recurring numbers that you could spot episode to episode. At times they were serial numbers, plane callsigns, airport gate numbers, the time, etc etc. There was nothing particularly special. Just something to enjoy.

joe123 wrote: »

Im sorry but thats just ridiculous...

How is it? The very reason she wanted MIB to take her place was because he had a devious ruthless streak. She thought Jacob was too much of an innocent.

joe123 wrote: »

Ash of the guardians? How the hell did they get the ash of the guardians?

Perhaps Jacob burned his toe nail clippings over the years.

joe123 wrote: »

I thought this was a joke. Thats like summing up the entire mystery of lost....The smoke monster = magic, Polar bear=magic, Landing on the island twice=magic, funny visions=magic, crazy horse vision=magic. You see where im coming from?

The polar bears were brought by Dharma. The horses belonged to Mikhail IIRC. The smoke monster was well a smoke monster how were they supposed to explain that genius?

joe123 wrote: »

Another place I thought you were joking. This bird which kept appearing....is just a funny bird or magic.

It didn't keep appearing. It had no more significance than comic relief.

joe123 wrote: »

My question was how did it become so secret and who found out the proper co-ordinates in the first place?

It was always secret. Whoever was before Mother and whoever was before that. They all came to the island by accident. Nobody set out looking especially for it in the beginning.

joe123 wrote: »

Again your just assuming. Jacob was clueless, how did he build a magic lighthouse?

He had time on his hands and could basically do whatever he wanted as he made up the rules.

joe123 wrote: »

Another one which looks like a joke. A "guardian manual" ? Also going by Jack not being sure what to do to Hurleys obvious confusion the drink isnt this magical enlightenment potion!

*facepalm*

RolandIRL

when desmond was going to hit the failsafe on the hatch, the timer counted down to 0, and symbols appeared like a bird, pyramid (or something, i can't remember)
did they ever explain what they were?

prinz

Essien wrote: »

I'll accept the majority of the mysteries in the show, but thats just silly. So the writers said one day "Oh hey, Libby doesn't really have a back story does she? No, let's just get a really suspicious shot of her on her own in Santa Rosa!"......Really?

Why not? It's not like she was vital to the story or a major character. It connected her to Hurley. It connected them again in the FST. You might as well ask what Nadia was doing in London when she got mugged. Instant mystery!!! Are we supposed to just believe she happened to be in the same place as Charlie at a given time....

prinz

joe123 wrote: »

That couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Not having a go but in LOST thats actually one of the things they do explain. Jacob created the smoke monster by accidently killing and throwing his brother down into the cave of light!

Did I say she was "the smoke" monster? :rolleyes:

whiteman19 wrote: »

when desmond was going to hit the failsafe on the hatch, the timer counted down to 0, and symbols appeared like a bird, pyramid (or something, i can't remember)
did they ever explain what they were?

Not specifically, they seemed to be around in the temple and that. Also there was a wall with the symbols in Ben's secret room. I reckon the Dharma Initiative just copied the symbols they found on the island.

jimbling

joe123 wrote: »

Myself and Jimbling had a big debate on here the last day of where I asked the question how did Jacob become so enlightend and he said once you drink the drink it was clear you did. But "The End" showed us that this clearly wasnt the case.

I don't have time to get into a debate about what was answered, what was not answered and what was okay to not be answered.

But, in this point Joe, I'm also confused. It did appear in this episode that Jack did not have the sudden enlightenment I presumed he had had.
I have no idea why they did this as it seemed like they basically gift wrapped the notion for you in both Jacobs and Jacks induction..... then took it away in the Finale for no reason.

EDIT: Just to say, this is my only real disappointment in the finale too. If Jack was more Jacobesque he could have thrown a few crumbs to the fans who want answers too. Not really explain outright, but a few notions on "rules" and such would have gone a long way. I am at a loss as to why they avoided this.

ziggyman17

Why did Dharma keep on droping the food parcels ??

How did Dharma find out about the island ??

Loved the show and will continue to love it.. But the makers made it up as they went along.. There is no way after the first season they knew how it was going to end.. Remember ben brough locke to the cottage and jacob was meant to be trapped in the house...

TonyD79

Was gonna ask about the parcels aswell but then I thought maybe they were dropped for Desmond?

How come Albert/Others have access to so much power/wealth off the island ie when they went recruiting for Juliet etc. Surely their sub would appear as an enemy/unkown on the USA's radar if Darmha/secret government agency wernt involved?

pavb2

What I don't get is taking Sawyer as an example did he meet Juliet again after he had left the island in the hospital and spend the rest of his life with her or did he meet her just before or after they both died. Did he really become a cop or do we not know how his life panned out after escaping

Is it a case such as with Sun & Jin that anyone who "died" on the island also died in reality so Juliet was already dead.

prinz

pavb2 wrote: »

What I don't get is taking Sawyer as an example did he meet Juliet again after he had left the island in the hospital and spend the rest of his life with her or did he meet her just before or after they both died. Did he really become a cop or do we not know how his life panned out after escaping

We don't know how Sawyers life off the island panned out. One thing is for sure though, he didn't meet Juliette. She was dead.

pavb2 wrote: »

Is it a case such as with Sun & Jin that anyone who "died" on the island also died in reality so Juliet was already dead.

The island was reality. If they died on the island.... they died for real.

pavb2

OK so Sawyer meeting Juliet in the hospital, Charlie meeting Clare at the concert, Jack meeting Kate etc (people who died on the island meeting people who survived) wasn't reality but like a place where their spirits met before they all moved on together.

prinz

pavb2 wrote: »

OK so Sawyer meeting Juliet in the hospital, Charlie meeting Clare at the concert, Jack meeting Kate etc (people who died on the island meeting people who survived) wasn't reality but like a place where their spirits met before they all moved on together.

Yeah that's basically it.

Tragamin2k2

Why did mikhail say he had a "fleeting memory" of john locke and the john locke he knew was different?

Where was christians body when jack found the coffin in season 1? did somebody move it from the coffin?

prinz

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

Why did mikhail say he had a "fleeting memory" of john locke and the john locke he knew was different?

What episode/season was this?

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

Where was christians body when jack found the coffin in season 1? did somebody move it from the coffin?

MIB took it.

Dow10

prinz wrote: »

No meaning, just numbers that related to the candidates and kept recurring. Nothing extra special.

How Hurley was able to win the lotto with the numbers was the only question I really wanted answered. At the start they did appear to be pretty important as they are the reason he went to Oz and ended up on flight 815. Also they were the numbers that had to be entered into the computer in the swan station every 108 minutes.
But since I really enjoyed The End I'll not moan too much about it.

Greener

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragamin2k2

Where was christians body when jack found the coffin in season 1? did somebody move it from the coffin?

Reply: MIB took it.



....I dont think this is true? The smoke thing was this 'evil spirit' yoke. He took Jacobs brothers FORM but not his actual dead body. Thats why they showed us Jacob burying his brothers body in the cave with his ma.

Then he took lockes form but not his body. Ilana and the boys had that.


The MIB we know stopped being jacobs brother when he went into the light. after that this evil spirit thing came out and went around looking like people.


IMO.

the_monkey

I posted this on the finale thread but that is so busy (46 pages + counting) :

I was thinking more and more about this today

Pisses me off.

S1 and S2 The others - these powerfull knowing people, seemed they
could achieve anything and had limitless resources

turns out - they knew nothing along with Ben their leader.

Richard also, a character from s3 hinted to be someone who knew a lot - knew nothing.

JAcob ??? why was Jacob hinted to be Christian from S3 in the cabin ??

Also in S2 when they kidnapped Ben (IMO the best part of LOST mid to late S2) he says about Jacob
"he'll never give you Walt " - Walt turns out to have no real impact on the
wrap up of the series.

"He is a Great man, but not a very forgiving man " - Ben never even seen Jacob, and its not like Jacob was a ruthless leader ! - writers just taking it on an episode by episode basis.

Countless other points I can't think off, I think i might re watch s1-s4,
remember when LOST was a great show ?



Oh yeah , what ever happened Patchy ?

Dow10

Greener wrote: »

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragamin2k2

Where was christians body when jack found the coffin in season 1? did somebody move it from the coffin?

Reply: MIB took it.



....I dont think this is true? The smoke thing was this 'evil spirit' yoke. He took Jacobs brothers FORM but not his actual dead body. Thats why they showed us Jacob burying his brothers body in the cave with his ma.

Then he took lockes form but not his body. Ilana and the boys had that.


The MIB we know stopped being jacobs brother when he went into the light. after that this evil spirit thing came out and went around looking like people.


IMO.

Maybe MIB took the body and got rid of it. If he was going to fool people into thinking he was Christian he would have to make sure they didn't see the real body.

jimbling

the_monkey wrote: »

S1 and S2 The others - these powerfull knowing people, seemed they
could achieve anything and had limitless resources

turns out - they knew nothing along with Ben their leader.

Richard also, a character from s3 hinted to be someone who knew a lot - knew nothing.

Knowledge is relative.
If you know nothing even a stupid person can appear knowledgeable.

Basically, The Others knowledge was limited when it came to the end game....i.e. the mystical side, or why they were doing certain things. But they were still very knowing in comparison to the original losties (and us, the viewer).

the_monkey wrote: »

JAcob ??? why was Jacob hinted to be Christian from S3 in the cabin ??

I don't think it was actually said to be Jacob at any point. But, because we only knew of Jacob at the time, it was presumed to be him.

the_monkey wrote: »

Also in S2 when they kidnapped Ben (IMO the best part of LOST mid to late S2) he says about Jacob
"he'll never give you Walt " - Walt turns out to have no real impact on the
wrap up of the series.

I'm sure at one point the writers saw possibilities for Walt. I too am disappointed he played no part. As for the writers, they just see it as something they decided not to expand upon.

the_monkey wrote: »

"He is a Great man, but not a very forgiving man " - Ben never even seen Jacob, and its not like Jacob was a ruthless leader ! - writers just taking it on an episode by episode basis.

Just because they didnt see him, didn't mean they knew nothing about him.
Jacob was a ruthless leader. He ordered the purge of Dharma for example.

the_monkey wrote: »

Oh yeah , what ever happened Patchy ?

He died? Who cares?

MR NINE

Why did Jack have a son in the Alt.?

Where did the others get their wealth from? (Widmore being so rich when he left the island, Ben having different currencies and passports etc in his house and seemingly many connections off island etc.)

prinz

Greener wrote: »

....I dont think this is true? The smoke thing was this 'evil spirit' yoke. He took Jacobs brothers FORM but not his actual dead body. Thats why they showed us Jacob burying his brothers body in the cave with his ma..

He also took Christians form when he appeared in the cabin with Claire and talked to Locke. IMO he took the body and hid it. It's possible that Christians body is the skeleton we saw in the light cave. MIB wanted help the Losties but he couldn't do that if they knew he had taken over Christians body, Jack would never have trusted him to lead him to water etc. Just like MIB took Locke's form but left the body IMO he took Christian's form and hid the body. That way he could walk around the island as Christian without the Losties in the earlier seasons realising what he was. The ruse would only work if the body was gone too. Later on with Locke he didn't care who knew what he was because he was ready to kill Jacob anyway.

prinz

MR NINE wrote: »

Why did Jack have a son in the Alt.?

That's the life he created for himself. He needed to resolve his father/son issues IMO.

MR NINE wrote: »

Where did the others get their wealth from? (Widmore being so rich when he left the island, Ben having different currencies and passports etc in his house and seemingly many connections off island etc.)

They had companies. Mittelos (sp?) Laboratories etc.

the_monkey

jimbling wrote: »

Jacob was a ruthless leader. He ordered the purge of Dharma for example.

Really ? isn't that a bit inconsistent with his character ?

bluecatmorgana

I am so angry right now with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, I could kill them for not knowing what they were doing. SOoooooooooooooooo many unanswered questions I cant begin to count them. And I have to say some of the "answers" given on this forum are diabolical. Ill never waste my time watching or reading about lost ever again ( except for when Kate and Jack were flirting/kissing)

Also on Lostpedia:
Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse agreed to answer some questions sent in by Lostpedia users, on themselves, their careers and circus around the show. The only caveat was that they would not answer questions about the show itself. No mystery resolution, nothing like that.
Damon and Carlton have said several times that they want the show to speak for itself, and we understand why they want to do that. After six years on the air, the body of work and the legacy they leave really does speak for itself. We understand that, and we want to honor that.


i.e. eh we dont know ourselves what was going on with some of our storylines.

Old_-_School

prinz

Old_-_School wrote: »

Dharma Initiative... 1 invoice for a couple of polar bears C.O.D.

MOH

There was a scene in the middle of all the time travel where one group were taking an outrigger between islands and were shot at from another outrigger - don't think we ever found out who that was? (Or ahve I just forgotten it?).

RolandIRL

MOH wrote: »

There was a scene in the middle of all the time travel where one group were taking an outrigger between islands and were shot at from another outrigger - don't think we ever found out who that was? (Or ahve I just forgotten it?).

i think that's one of the scenes boardsies have been questioning. i'm not too sure about it myself. i'm sure someone else can explain.

i always thought that the others attacked the losties time-travelling. no explaination just an assumption

prinz

MOH wrote: »

There was a scene in the middle of all the time travel where one group were taking an outrigger between islands and were shot at from another outrigger - don't think we ever found out who that was? (Or ahve I just forgotten it?).

It was never really explained from the other side of that scene but I'm going with it was a couple of Widmores crew from the sub.

jimbling

the_monkey wrote: »

Really ? isn't that a bit inconsistent with his character ?

No, not really. Jacob was protector of the Island. He saw this job as the most important thing in the world (in fact, he believed he was saving the world). Anything that threatened that he had to put a stop to.

Jacob had plenty blood on his hands. He saw it as a war... there are always casualties of war. Yes, I'm sure he wouldn't go out of his way to be a bad ass, but perfectly capable of it when necessary.


btw, I just re-read your quote. I took the ruthless part you mentioned, but the quote actually states "not a forgiving man". That I wouldn't really agree with. I would think Jacob forgiving... at least if your intentions were good, or you didn't realise what you were doing. e.g. How he treated Richard after he tried to kill him.

jimbling

MOH wrote: »

There was a scene in the middle of all the time travel where one group were taking an outrigger between islands and were shot at from another outrigger - don't think we ever found out who that was? (Or ahve I just forgotten it?).

Never explained...there's a whole thread on it... probably on the second page if you have a look.

The Volt

Start of season 6, seeing the island underwater?

Bob Z

joe123 wrote: »

Another one which looks like a joke. A "guardian manual" ? Also going by Jack not being sure what to do to Hurleys obvious confusion the drink isnt this magical enlightenment potion!

They drank the potion and knowledge and/or history of the island that doesn't mean they suddendly knew what to do or what decisions to make that's something they had to figure out. Hurley would probably run the Island different to Jack

prinz

Voltwad wrote: »

Start of season 6, seeing the island underwater?

In the purgatory timeline the island didn't exist. Hence the under water scene.

The Volt

prinz wrote: »

In the purgatory timeline the island didn't exist. Hence the under water scene.

But then what was with all the houses being underwater too? =/

prinz

Voltwad wrote: »

But then what was with all the houses being underwater too? =/

So that viewers actually knew it was supposed to be the island. Either it just showed random underwater seabed = nobody would know what it was supposed to be, or they showed an empty sea view = nobody would know what it meant. They had to show something of the island so you knew it was the island.

The Volt

Why was Claire pregnant in purgatory?

prinz

Voltwad wrote: »

Why was Claire pregnant in purgatory?

The most important time and thing in her life, was her time with the other losties and Aaron's birth.

Killer Pigeon

What the hell was the light that the guardians of the island had to protect? In "Across the sea", Jacob's step mother said it was a light that was in all men (or something like that). This doesn't explain why it was so important and had to be protected, what was it?

Bob Z

the_monkey wrote:

"He is a Great man, but not a very forgiving man " - Ben never even seen Jacob, and its not like Jacob was a ruthless leader !

Ben wasn't supposed to be the leader he was talking about his own boss not Jacob. The writers thoughthe was such a good actor they made him the boss instead. They tried to explain this by making ben into aliar and manipulator.

Deliverance

Biggest pile of ****e ever to hit the tv screen. Mind numbing stuff.

drunken_munky52

They all died during the first episode in the plane crash.

The island then needed to decide weather they go to heaven or go to hell; hence the bet Locke and Jack made when they lowered Desmond into the light.