Eircom to cut broadband over illegal downloads

jimi_t2

DeVore wrote: »

You see.... I am the very rarest of individuals, a "poorly informed prophet".

I'm pretty sure it was Marcel Reich-Ranicki who coined the phrase ''retrospective clairvoyance'' for the great ability of the media to predict events after they'd happened

Spiritoftheseventies

Blacknight wrote: »

Nobody is condoning any activity that is illegal, however there are a multitude of reasons why this move by Eircom is bad.

I've tried to put my thoughts into something vaguely coherent here:

http://blog.blacknight.com/irma-eircom-and-the-death-of-freedom.html

Good enough blog in that its articulate but I think what the IMRO and IMRA are doing is slightly differnent.
Bloggers promote music on their site and as such IMRO are pretting much biting the hands that feeds them.
What file sharers are doing are causing immeasurable damage to music industry by sharing files.
I think eventually other broadband companies will follow suit here.

pooch90

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

What file sharers are doing are causing immeasurable damage to music industry by sharing files.

If I have no interest in a band's latest cd I won't buy their stuff but I have cost them nothing. If I have no interest in a band's latest cd but decide to download it to give it a chance I have still cost them nothing.

The only difference between the two cases is that in the latter, if their stuff is good, I'll buy the cd and probably go see them at a concert if I can. Same for movies - i have more movies than almost anyone I know and every movie is one which i downloaded first.


I don't believe for a minute that filesharing actually hurts the music industry. It's more likely that crap music from manufactured bands hurts the music industry - but you'll not hear record labels say that too often.

Spiritoftheseventies

pooch90 wrote: »

If I have no interest in a band's latest cd I won't buy their stuff but I have cost them nothing. If I have no interest in a band's latest cd but decide to download it to give it a chance I have still cost them nothing.

The only difference between the two cases is that in the latter, if their stuff is good, I'll buy the cd and probably go see them at a concert if I can. Same for movies - i have more movies than almost anyone I know and every movie is one which i downloaded first.


I don't believe for a minute that filesharing actually hurts the music industry. It's more likely that crap music from manufactured bands hurts the music industry - but you'll not hear record labels say that too often.

Im sure the record industries have come up with the stats. Again I think this is down to them not meeting the demands of the digital age. Spotify if Im right is the only streaming facility on line and yet you need an invite for that. WE7 allows you to stream some records but not all.
The better choice there is for the consumer the less need for filesharers. Same goes for movies.

pooch90

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Im sure the record industries have come up with the stats. Again I think this is down to them not meeting the demands of the digital age. Spotify if Im right is the only streaming facility on line and yet you need an invite for that. WE7 allows you to stream some records but not all.
The better choice there is for the consumer the less need for filesharers. Same goes for movies.

But isn't a major part of the problem here the fact that the music industry effectively (I think) burned their bridges with their own customers from years of pandering to the 13-17 year old markets with their incessant manufactured bands and releasing material which plainly wasn't up to the mark at inflated sticker prices. I used to buy music once too but I just stopped one day and now don't even listen to that much music radio as its the same rubbish repeated ad-nausea. The only place I find out about music now is by downloading and trying and if i like it I'll buy it. Thats how I am and it seems to be the way the world is gone so the music industry can fight it or they can join it.

By the way, i reckon that they are taking the cowards way out through disconecting users as they have very little chance of actually getting a meaningful conviction out of any downloader - how can you sue someone for damages when they haven't actually done you any harm??

limklad

DeVore wrote: »

So dumb it hurts.

Immediate response will be:

1. Mass defection from Eircom and loss of future sales.

I doubt it very much. as the majority do not pirate material online, well not intentionally. I estimate 5 to 10% of the population are doing it and most of those are gone any already for cheaper/Faster/unlimited broadband with other ISP providers.

DeVore wrote: »

2. Creates a perfect business opportunity for a commercial "anonymiser" service operated outside the state.

The main culprits are already moving borders they been doing so for years or using computer/servers outside the state to upload their material to.

DeVore wrote: »

3. Creates the perfect incentive for an arms war which is very simple for "them" to progress and very hard for Eircom/IMRA to counter.

Note, I'm not making any judgement on the rights and wrongs of file-sharing, I'm saying that this isnt a good way to go and I think even Eircom knew that but cant afford to fight "Big Content".

DeV.

I have no problems with File-sharing we (internet users) do it all the time with basic web access to the Internet.

If a Judge ask me, do I file share over the Internet with a yes or no answer I say yes, because Every time an internet user access the internet, They download and copy a file in basic html file and some flash files and maybe some image files to your computer/mobile. You reading this comment have copied this page from boards.ie server and download to your computer to view it on your web browser. You have just file-share with page with the permission of boards.ie. It is basically how the internet works.
File-sharing over the internet have been very degraded in our language like it is a dirty word.

Any one of us could download any pirated copyright material without knowing it was copyright material that you meant to buy, falsely believing it was free, to read and use.

On the other hand sharing piracy stuff over the net is not welcome and yet it is those mainly commit those intentionally will be many many steps ahead of the game of these companies. As soon as the Law catches up they have moved on with other methods or means, just like crime on drugs, arms etc. and it the rest of us internet users will be punished because of it due to this ignorance of those who fight piracy in the first place. The lack of understanding on the causes always fail to prevent future breaches.

I am against ISP or any companies from been judge and jury and policing of the Internet on anyone suspected of piracy, that a matter for the Police Authorities and judged in their Legal Courts systems of the country in which the incident has taken place through treaties between nations.

Any of our internet connections can be hacked and used to download and upload pirated files. No computer connected to the Internet is truly safe. Therefore if ordinary Joe/Jane is unaware of what is truly happening on their computer/internet connection and their connection is hacked and a malicious program is used on their computers store and relay copyrighted material onwards to be used as a scape goat.

Also WIFI breaches are regular occurrence in urban areas where you have lots of nearby neighbours. You need to have military/security type firewall and yet those are not breach proof against these determined pirates.

Yet according to the ISP T&C, the Bill payer is responsible for any downloaded material over their internet connection. The Bill payer Ignorance is no excuse for ISP's as the bill payer signed on to T&C (often without reading or not understanding) or any changes to T&C, often without notification of the changes to the bill payer as the bill payer sign on agreeing to that clause.

DeVore

You are mistaking a "purchaser" with a "key decision influencer".


When Aunti Bertrude phones up her nephew who is "a whizzkid" and asks who she should get broadband with... the answer is a lot less likely to be Eircom now.

I'm a KDI... lots of people ask me for my advice about all things computer related and I have a set of recommendations I parrot off. Now, if a company can influence me to put them in my list, they have done a good days marketing/sales. Hence we get a lot of free phones and games into the office, just on the off chance that we could use them....


Toss in Social Media into the mix and that effect accelerates to warp speed.

DeV.

Spiritoftheseventies

pooch90 wrote: »

But isn't a major part of the problem here the fact that the music industry effectively (I think) burned their bridges with their own customers from years of pandering to the 13-17 year old markets with their incessant manufactured bands and releasing material which plainly wasn't up to the mark at inflated sticker prices. I used to buy music once too but I just stopped one day and now don't even listen to that much music radio as its the same rubbish repeated ad-nausea. The only place I find out about music now is by downloading and trying and if i like it I'll buy it. Thats how I am and it seems to be the way the world is gone so the music industry can fight it or they can join it.

By the way, i reckon that they are taking the cowards way out through disconecting users as they have very little chance of actually getting a meaningful conviction out of any downloader - how can you sue someone for damages when they haven't actually done you any harm??

Totally agree. Industry has to take some responsibilty here. The way some over zealously cut you tube vidoes over copyright is annoyting.

blubloblu

Letter in the Irish Times today:
Irish Times Letters - Eircom and illegal downloads

Madam, – It would seem Ireland is leading the way worldwide in handing control of our internet services over to the four major record labels (Front Page, May 24th). They have proposed draconian measures which have been voted against, judged unconstitutional, and met with ferocious opposition in other countries. They want Eircom to cut off your internet if they think you are illegally downloading music.
Allow me to propose my own three strikes against this policy:
1. The major record companies are taking this course of action to stop the unauthorised sharing of their music. They are entitled to protect their rights, and they should be able to take whatever legitimate action they wish. However...