Best Value Bicycle Shops

Knarr

Are there any bicycle shops that could be considered good value? - particularly for accessories.

I looked around about 6 dedicated cycle shops looking for a set of mudguards and in all of them the minimum price was about €20. I mean for two bits of moulded plastic! - just seem very expensive to me. I ended up making some myself from an old hoover tube. All they are is esentially glorified plastic bottles




http://farm1.static.flickr.com/59/180526469_fb56571f99.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2666807665_b7b3760509.jpg

I was also looking for a set of panniers and the prices seemed pricey too. I ended up getting a triple pannier set in Argos, which granted, are not the best of quality. Argos also sell a half decent set of muguards for about €11 I think.

One of the problems I find also is that there is no 'economy'/'budget' gear in cycle shops - like panniers for example. I dont think any of them sold cheap ones like argos do. There needs to be more choice and quality gradient which reflect the prices.

Its probably why people que up outside Aldi and Lidle for their gear.

seamus

Knarr wrote: »

I was also looking for a set of panniers and the prices seemed pricey too. I ended up getting a triple pannier set in Argos, which granted, are not the best of quality.

I think the key here is primarily quality.

Most bike parts are consumables. There are very few things you can fit to a bike which you will never have to service or replace. The intervals between services are obviously longer for better quality parts and cheaper parts will obviously need to be replaced sooner than more expensive ones.

I imagine most bike shops have discovered that if they stock cheap parts, people end up coming back quickly and complaining that it's broken or didn't work as good as an expensive part. If someone buys their bike components from Argos, they probably don't use the bike enough for maintenance to become an issue, or they are well aware of the cheapness of the part and put up with any issues.

I agree that muguards are one of those things that can be badly overpriced. For someone who enjoys biking on a regular basis, appearance is usually at least somewhat important and bike shops know this so they don't bother stocking the €10 argos ones.

El Tarangu

Don't know about mudguards specifically, but Little Sport in Fairview have always done right by me. I had my back axle replaced there recently, and they threw in a few of those cheap metal spanners for free.

Very reasonably priced in comparison with their competitors.

Gavin

El Tarangu wrote: »

Don't know about mudguards specifically, but Little Sport in Fairview have always done right by me. I had my back axle replaced there recently, and they threw in a few of those cheap metal spanners for free.

Very reasonably priced in comparison with their competitors.

Cheap things are not necessarily a good idea. I've cut my hand open from a cheap spanner snapping on a rusted bolt. Ouch.

After a long time as a student I eventually came to the conclusion that it's worth saving and paying a bit more for parts rather than simply buying the cheapest one. Buy less things, spend more on those things you do buy and suffer less heartache.

Bikerbhoy

Knarr wrote: »

I ended up making some myself from an old hoover tube.

Sweet Jesus seen it all now..............


Pannier Bags - Tesco 20c

ipodrocker

think in terms of cost, buy a decent bit of gear at a reasonable price so it will last you yrs and you dont have to worry about replacing mudguards for example too often.

zynaps

ipodrocker wrote: »

think in terms of cost, buy a decent bit of gear at a reasonable price so it will last you yrs and you dont have to worry about replacing mudguards for example too often.

Yeah, and even better, buy a decent bit of gear at a more reasonable price elsewhere

For repairs in Dublin, cheapest and most decent I've seen is McCormack's on Dorset Street (very small shop though, probably not a whole lot of accessories there), although Artane Cycle Centre offered me cheaper for a new wheel recently - they wanted €18 for a pair of mudguards (albeit fitted), which was a bit much for me, at least on the horrible cheap second-hand BSO I'm riding.
I ended up stamping that wheel into shape and somewhat-truing it with a spoke key, anyway...

Got a half-decent looking U-lock for about €12 iirc from Little Sport in Fairview the other week - price looked right and they seem quite friendly there too.

[edit]
Just wanted to say, nice one OP for the redneck mudguard job, if it works then why not? I might try that!

kona

I'd have to toatally agree with the poster who said that Quality is the key.

We should change the thread title to "cheapest accessories, quality non essential"

Cheap bits and pieces are not even worth your time and effort. There is no "Value" in cheap parts .

kona

zynaps wrote: »

Got a half-decent looking U-lock for about €12 iirc from Little Sport in !

Its ****. Trust me. A thiefs wet dream.

zynaps

kona wrote: »

I'd have to toatally agree with the poster who said that Quality is the key.

We should change the thread title to "cheapest accessories, quality non essential"

Sure, you should be discerning about what you buy. What I meant was that a search where quality is important doesn't mean that money is no object. You should still shop around and get the "quality" part in the cheapest place nearby.

kona wrote: »

Its ****. Trust me. A thiefs wet dream.

How do you know? It may well be, but I wasn't going to spend more money on the lock than was spent on the BSO (about 50 quid, and it was probably 100 quid new ).

kona

zynaps wrote: »

Sure, you should be discerning about what you buy. What I meant was that a search where quality is important doesn't mean that money is no object. You should still shop around and get the "quality" part in the cheapest place nearby.

Thats true, but links to lowest common denominator argos products doesnt help that argument, neither does pictures of mudgards from bottles(how long does it take to make them? surely your time is worth more than the e20). €20 is the going rate for mudgards.
Cheap panniers probably have a lower load rating than perhapes the likes of brands like topeak. Admittedly Topeak is very very expensive here, but if you shop online you can get very very good deals. Also the Premium Parts I find fit to bikes much better.
Obviously its all down to choice, but it really is a facepalm when you get people buying the cheapest bikes, that you tell them are crap and then they return with the broken bike saying it *Should* last, even though they were told it wouldnt.

zynaps wrote: »

How do you know? It may well be, but I wasn't going to spend more money on the lock than was spent on the BSO (about 50 quid, and it was probably 100 quid new ).

I know what locks are what, each lock fits into a price band, a e12 lock is useless, its a waste of money.
There is no way that the e12 lock bought in little sport is the same quality as a kryptonite new york fagheddaboudit which costs 8 times more. If you were to hold the two you would tell the difference immediatley.
Obviously its pretty dumb to buy a bike for e100 and spend more on a ock, but my bike stands me alot of money and I wouldnt lock it with anything less than the best.


Also, workig in a bike shop, Im always fitting crap parts to expensive bikes(much to my protest and dismay), I can never understand the mentality of this, why spend a grand on a bike then decide to fit the cheapest parts possible to it? Its pointless.

Lumen

kona wrote: »

There is no way that the e12 lock bought in little sport is the same quality as a kryptonite new york fagheddaboudit which costs 8 times more.

Fagheddaboudit for €96? I knew you worked in Cycleogical.

They're about €50 on the internet.

edit: price has gone up now, more like €60

kona

Lumen wrote: »

Fagheddaboudit for €96? I knew you worked in Cycleogical.

They're about €50 on the internet.

edit: price has gone up now, more like €60

I thought we were talking about it in the context on shops .

I got mine from amazon when they were cheap too

OP, this is a prime example of shopping around, I saved a fortune! you just have to get to know where to look for deals.

Knarr

kona wrote: »

Thats true, but links to lowest common denominator argos products doesnt help that argument, neither does pictures of mudgards from bottles(how long does it take to make them? surely your time is worth more than the e20). €20 is the going rate for mudgards.

How long do you think it takes to cut two bottles in half and tie them to the carrier with a bit of string? - 15-20 minutes at most. As opposed to spending time going to a shop (or various shops looking for the best price) and spending at least 20 quid.





Your talking there about low quality and cheap stuff in your posts. Good quality moulded bits of plastic should not equate to spending €20 plus. The problem here is Value for money. Bicycle shops are overly expensive in my view.

I could go and buy, say, two toy guns with an equivilent mass of plastic to a mudguard, and also an internal mechanism - and I wouldnt be paying €20+ for them - despite the gun taking more manufacturing process.

I mean - get real here. Mudguard = bit of plastic.

There is clearly an issue of value for money.

zynaps

kona wrote: »

Thats true, but links to lowest common denominator argos products doesnt help that argument, neither does pictures of mudgards from bottles(how long does it take to make them? surely your time is worth more than the e20). €20 is the going rate for mudgards.

Your argument may make sense for locks, chain cassettes, gear shifters and other items where there's scope for a wide range of quality, but we're talking about mudguards here. Moulded lumps of plastic which stick onto your bike and stop muck from spraying on you.

Why not get "lowest common denominator" mudguards from Argos or build them from bottles? Honestly, why not? If a very cheap or homemade job is 98% as effective as the most expensive Rolex diamond-studded mudguards, then no your argument doesn't float. Then you're just advocating spending money for money's sake.

If Graham Obree can hack together a world record setting bicycle from washing machine parts and scrap metal then there is no reason cheap mudguards or a flattened vacuum cleaner tube can't serve perfectly well.

kona wrote: »

I know what locks are what, each lock fits into a price band, a e12 lock is useless, its a waste of money.
There is no way that the e12 lock bought in little sport is the same quality as a kryptonite new york fagheddaboudit which costs 8 times more. If you were to hold the two you would tell the difference immediatley.
Obviously its pretty dumb to buy a bike for e100 and spend more on a ock, but my bike stands me alot of money and I wouldnt lock it with anything less than the best.

Sorry but I'd have to see some kind of evidence that these expensive Kryptonite locks provide an effectively higher safety level.* Maybe their deterrent factor from their good reputation is good, but I've seen videos on Youtube of "the best" motorbike locks being snapped in 20-90 seconds with the right tools.

To simply assume that an expensive lock is automatically good while a cheaper lock must be highly vulnerable seems snobbish and short-sighted really (I'm not asserting that you're making such an assumption, since you say you "know what locks are what" and I'll accept that at face value ).

But I'm sure there's some correspondence with the situation in the computer market where people assume an expensive Apple Macbook is clearly superior in all respects to a cheap no-name PC laptop, which is often not the case at all. Cheaper is not necessarily equal (or proportional) to worse.


* Note: if my bike was expensive like yours, and not a nearly-scrap BSO like mine, I'd splash out the extra cash for an expensive lock too though!

kona

No, It doesnt take long to cut up two bottles and tie them to a carrier. But I dont use a carrier, neither do alot of people here....

The manufacturing process for mudguards id imagine is the same as the plastic sheel of a toy gun. The type of plastic is different, the plastic used on mudguards is much less brittle and way more flexible.

Also the mudguards cost €20 because thats what customers pay, its all about economies and marketing. You can apply your toy gun logic to pretty much and consumable product.

Im not going into a full blow essay like argument over this because Ill just drive myself crazy. Yes, Mudguards are expensive, My mudguards have lasted years so I dont care about the price its long since paid itself back. Products are expensive because people pay the inflated prices, its tough ****.

Am I guuna tie a coke bottle to my already expensive bike with string? No I am not.

Am I going to pay over the odds for bits? No I am not, Ill just wait to pick up a set of mudguards for free, or keep an eye out for deals on the net.

If I were you Id be pissed off more at the margins on BSO, or even the electronics in your house? Do people moan about walking into Brown Thomas and complain that the jeans that cost as much as pennys jeans to make are costing you a few hundred quid? No, They dont. Markets are set and the prices are artificially set, Economics is a strange subject, you can question it and moan about it but thats the way it is.


RE: Apple Mac Book, whilst not a consumable, the reason its expensive is because apple set the price in that range so people feel they are buying something premium and exclusive. It then becomes fashionable and it takes off.

Same as Phones, Playstations, pretty much anything electronic, ***Insert annual X-mas marketing "Must Have for kids"****. Its called marketing and once you make somebody need something you can charge what you want.

kona

zynaps wrote: »

Sorry but I'd have to see some kind of evidence that these expensive Kryptonite locks provide an effectively higher safety level.* Maybe their deterrent factor from their good reputation is good, but I've seen videos on Youtube of "the best" motorbike locks being snapped in 20-90 seconds with the right tools.

To simply assume that an expensive lock is automatically good while a cheaper lock must be highly vulnerable seems snobbish and short-sighted really (I'm not asserting that you're making such an assumption, since you say you "know what locks are what" and I'll accept that at face value ).

!

There are PLENTY of reviews about the new york fagheddaboudit lock, perhaps google it and see. Every company will claim their products are the best, but The Kryptonite is proven to be the best, both in magazines and by people who post online.

Im not assuming anything about a 12 euro lock, my statement is based on experience and knowledge.

Personally Id agree with you that a 12 euro lock may be as good as some e40-e50 locks though, they are all ****e.

Knarr

kona wrote: »

Do people moan about walking into Brown Thomas and complain that the jeans that cost as much as pennys jeans to make are costing you a few hundred quid? No, They dont.

At least there is a Penny's or Tesco for clothes. For mudguards, which as you say are expensive because people are willing to pay the price, there is no 'budget option'.

Thats the problem.

I wouldnt put too much faith in 'the market', for if it worked as you explain there'd be mudguards for a fiver. Competition and all that. Good in theory.

chakattack

You don't have to buy them...:rolleyes:

A nice cold wet arse is free.

Seriously though, look around here and on adverts for a deal or try some online vendors if you're looking for the lowest prices.

kona

Knarr wrote: »

At least there is a Penny's or Tesco for clothes. For mudguards, which as you say are expensive because people are willing to pay the price, there is no 'budget option'.

Thats the problem.

I wouldnt put too much faith in 'the market', for if it worked as you explain there'd be mudguards for a fiver. Competition and all that. Good in theory.

The market isnt there to make things cheaper for people, the market is controlled by people manipulating it to make more money for companies. If you think otherwise, your going to be dissapointed:(

If I was a company why would i sell mudguards at e5 and make X% profit, when I can sell them at e20 and make XXXXX% profit?? For every person that decides they dont wanna pay there are hundreds that decide they do wanna pay.

If you want to stick it to the man, I find that quality parts and premium bikes are the best way because there is less % profit in them.

Knarr

chakattack wrote: »

You don't have to buy them...:rolleyes:

Thats why I use a hoover tube.

kona

Knarr wrote: »

At least there is a Penny's or Tesco for clothes. For mudguards, which as you say are expensive because people are willing to pay the price, there is no 'budget option'.

Erm they are the Budget option, you can get more expensive mudguards......

The point being that the "Budget" option isnt cheap enough for you. (and at e20 Id agree with you)

Knarr

If I was a company why would i sell mudguards at e5 and make X% profit, when I can sell them at e20 and make XXXXX% profit??

Well if you sold them for, say, 10 euro then you would have gotten my custom.

The market, through competition amongst cycle shops, should drive down prices.

Two strips of plastic for €20 sounds like that idea fell flat. Too much government intervention and powerful unions are to blame I guess.

For every person that decides they dont wanna pay there are hundreds that decide they do wanna pay.

But if people are willing to pay such high prices, more cycle shops will be set up and cream it. The more cycle shops there are the more competition there is and prices will be driven down.

I did struggle to find six bicycle shops I admit.

If you want to stick it to the man, I find that quality parts and premium bikes are the best way because there is less % profit in them.

I would have thought myself now that they make more from the high end parts. Infact id say thats why they dont sell cheap mudguards or have a budget range of items.

kona

Knarr wrote: »

Well if you sold them for, say, 10 euro then you would have gotten my custom.

The market, through competition amongst cycle shops, should drive down prices.

Two strips of plastic for €20 sounds like that idea fell flat. Too much government intervention and powerful unions are to blame I guess.



But if people are willing to pay such high prices, more cycle shops will be set up and cream it. The more cycle shops there are the more competition there is and prices will be driven down.

I did struggle to find six bicycle shops I admit.



I would have thought myself now that they make more from the high end parts. Infact id say thats why they dont sell cheap mudguards or have a budget range of items.

The most profit in anything comes from "Budget" parts, purely because there is not R&D , the materials are the cheapest crap they can find, the quality control is low, the staff building them are unskilled. Then add in the fact there is a market for anything cheap and your onto a winner.
High end parts are produced on a lower scale, have alot of R&D and use top quality materials, so they have less % profit.

Im getting the vibe off you that bike shops are ripping you off, perhaps you should see the prices of the suppliers, this Island is such a small market, that our distributors cant order in large enough quantities to get the best deals and so the Cost price to shops is higher.

A prime example is chain reaction , they sell parts waay below what it costs retailers to buy cost in some cases, which is great for the consumer, but from a LBS point of view, a Impossible prospect.

EG:

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_184237_langId_-1_categoryId_212405

V

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3760


No competition (and before the Halfords big company brigade come in, do you think halfords order in many of these? Im showing a example of how buying power can play a huge part)

Knarr

kona wrote: »

Im getting the vibe off you that bike shops are ripping you off.

Yeah, I think two strips of plastic for €20 is a rippoff price.

No competition (and before the Halfords big company brigade come in, do you think halfords order in many of these? Im showing a example of how buying power can play a huge part)

Well if buying power has such a big part, how come Halfords are still charging those prices?

I think internet buying is probably the way to go, but I doubt it will effect shop prices much. It would have done so by now.

zynaps

kona wrote: »

The most profit in anything comes from "Budget" parts, purely because there is not R&D , the materials are the cheapest crap they can find, the quality control is low, the staff building them are unskilled. Then add in the fact there is a market for anything cheap and your onto a winner.
High end parts are produced on a lower scale, have alot of R&D and use top quality materials, so they have less % profit.

Hmm, I don't think that's right. Maybe if you're only talking about the manufacturer's profit. But we deal with retail shops and not the manufacturers.
Where "high end" parts means the base price is more expensive and there's any kind of recognisable brand name, the markup added in shops is going to be high. This is why a Sony LCD TV costs hundreds of quid more than it costs to make (and probably hundreds more than the retailer paid).

kona

Knarr wrote: »

Yeah, I think two strips of plastic for €20 is a rippoff price.

Yea it is. Have you perhaps bought a new car? Have you bought a packet of corn flakes? or maybe you have seen the price of a bag of chips lately.... Everything is a rip off, it depends on where you set the levels of prices.

Knarr wrote: »

Well if buying power has such a big part, how come Halfords are still charging those prices?

Erm , because people are willing to pay it. Halfords is there to make money not be a charity... They are not really ripping you off if they are e20 everywhere else...they are pricing their prouct as compeditive as other places.

Knarr wrote: »

I think internet buying is probably the way to go, but I doubt it will effect shop prices much. It would have done so by now.

Sure is Ted, but bike shops dont make as much money from sales as from service. Service is where LBS makes the $$$. They couldnt give a **** about getting into Tesco like price wars.



Also I'd Imagine 1kg of the plastic used to build the mudguards is getting expensive with the price of oil, then the heat and power needed to melt the plastic pellets and run the machines, then the cost of transport etc etc etc. Anything derived from oil is gunna be heading up in the price range not down. Then add in 21% VAT , Then the LBS mark up, it all adds up, however Id imagine the bike shop is making at least e10 on each mudguard set sold at e20. But they are there to make money so thats what they do.

zynaps

Knarr wrote: »

Yeah, I think two strips of plastic for €20 is a rippoff price.

Ditto.

Knarr wrote: »

I think internet buying is probably the way to go, but I doubt it will effect shop prices much. It would have done so by now.

Yeah... getting back to the point of this thread (to help us shop around for decent quality stuff for the cheapest prices - not to look for substandard garbage because we're scabby ), it would be nice to have some actual figures for different shops! I'm sure there's a list of online suppliers stickied somewhere?

There really is a rather large variation in prices for repairs and accessories/parts, in Dublin anyway. I mentioned on at least one other thread that a shop in Rathmines quoted me over €150 for a chain/cassette replacement, which I ended up getting done elsewhere for €40! Surely that's what this is about...

kona

zynaps wrote: »

I mentioned on at least one other thread that a shop in Rathmines quoted me over €150 for a chain/cassette replacement, which I ended up getting done elsewhere for €40! Surely that's what this is about...

You really would have to tell us what chain and cassette you were quoted for by the Rathmines shop, and the one you got done.

There is a huge difference in prices between some SRAM and Shimano Consumables on one side and "Budget" Brands on the other side.

Its not fair to jsut give figures, becasue we cannot guage the quality of the job. Yes it is possible for SRAM parts to be 3 times more than "Budget parts". Also some places are cheaper for the Labour, but some shops may just whip the cassette ona nd chain on.
The other may do this but also do a full tune up of the gears.

EG. Sram Hollowpin chains are e50

"Budget chains are around e15.

Cassettes get even more mental.

Knarr

zynaps wrote: »

(to help us shop around for decent quality stuff for the cheapest prices - not to look for substandard garbage because we're scabby )

I like to think of it as the smart economy. So long as it dosnt fall off and I get a cold wet arse.

I struggle to think of any cheap prices to be honest from the shops iv been in. Shopping for mudguards frightened me.

zynaps

kona wrote: »

You really would have to tell us what chain and cassette you were quoted for by the Rathmines shop, and the one you got done.

There is a huge difference in prices between some SRAM and Shimano Consumables on one side and "Budget" Brands on the other side.

Yeah fair enough, I don't remember what brand cassette they put on because that bike was stolen some months ago, but it probably wasn't one of those. It felt and worked fine though, as good as the original set (SRAM iirc).
However, the price quoted by the Rathmines shop was the absolute cheapest they would do, so... obviously I ended up not getting it done there Voting with my wheels.

[edit]
That €40 included labour BTW! A rather large portion of the ~€150 quote included a rather large "labour" figure (possibly over €40 )

Speaking of which:

kona wrote:

Erm , because people are willing to pay it. Halfords is there to make money not be a charity... They are not really ripping you off if they are e20 everywhere else...they are pricing their prouct as compeditive as other places.

But that's precisely the point of this thread isn't it? Halfords/etc have little motivation to cut down on the excessive markup on accessories because, as you say, people are willing to pay it.

Well I'm not. And by shopping around and urging everybody else to do so as well, that's the only way we're going to bring those prices down.

From your arguments, it kind of sounds like you want the status quo to stay as it is. Do you?