strike action is called for by the union in Teva.

urhavinalaugh

It has been announced this week ,that after failing to agree with the Teva Management team after 9 months ,it is recommended by SIPTU to reject the 8 full weeks for every year you work there is not a good deal ,a meeting of the workers to be held next Sunday 30th @ 11 am in the Tower Hotel Waterford .

The main topic is to ballot the members to reject the company offer ,which in turn will lead to industrial action ,that been a strike .

Cabaal

So two weeks is the basic under the law and they're being offered 8 which they still ain't happy with? Its not like 8 weeks is not that much.

What exactly do they want?

josh3

its six full weeks two weeks statuary......its an issue to do with with seniority....they wont honour it

Yes Boss

Teva is one of the largest generic drug companies in the world with manufacturing plants on every continent!!

I wonder firstly what effect a strike will have on such a large organisation and secondly, what effect it will have on their decision to stay in Waterford.

I believe that the unions have generally positioned Waterford as a unionized City and you wonder why Waterford don't get its share of High-skilled FDI like Galway as mentioned in another thread!!

urhavinalaugh

They are not taken the 8 week package because its a seniority issue with the remaining workers ,they are closing the tablet plant with a total loss of jobs (317 people),and the union want to transfer as many of those people to the inhalations plant which remaining open ,as a result of this all temp employees will loose there jobs in both plants ,the remaining workers with enough years with the company must decide wether to take redundancy or relocation to inhalations.The company want only 45 people to transfer and the union want more people to be considered .
But the real sticky point is the Seniority issue which SIPTU want. The company say that a person with for example has been in inhalations for 3 years is entitled to keep there job ,then a person with 20 years in the tablet plant ,by the way the transfer of skills issue is minimal . And as a result over the years people have been moved from one site to the other as result their business needs.

urhavinalaugh

Hi Josh 3

Its 8 full weeks ,worked out by your average wage over the last 6 months ,from Jan to June .The company wanted 6 weeks the union wanted 10 weeks the Labour Court recommended 8 weeks, and the company said on Wednesday it honour the LCR of 8 weeks.

Sosa

urhavinalaugh wrote: »

They are not taken the 8 week package because its a seniority issue with the remaining workers ,they are closing the tablet plant with a total loss of jobs (317 people),and the union want to transfer as many of those people to the inhalations plant which remaining open ,as a result of this all temp employees will loose there jobs in both plants ,the remaining workers with enough years with the company must decide wether to take redundancy or relocation to inhalations.The company want only 45 people to transfer and the union want more people to be considered .
But the real sticky point is the Seniority issue which SIPTU want. The company say that a person with for example has been in inhalations for 3 years is entitled to keep there job ,then a person with 20 years in the tablet plant ,by the way the transfer of skills issue is minimal . And as a result over the years people have been moved from one site to the other as result their business needs.

They should be happy to get 8 weeks,if its a lump sum paid straightaway...not like the phase payments the crystal workers got stung on.
As for seniority,its understandable that people with 20 years service in one plant would expect to be kept over people with less service in the plant that is being kept...and if it is in fact the case that retraining is minimal,those senior should be kept imo.

Why are the company saying that they think less senior people should be kept ?
It is possible they dont want the people in the tablet factory transferring over.....companies always have alterior motives.
If i was running that company i would just say how many i want gone and let the unions thrash it out,no sense in attracting further animosity by saying whch should be kept.....

urhavinalaugh

Hi Sosa

Yes it looks like if your face dont fit we dont want you here ,thats why the union are taken this action , the 8 weeks is one part of the package and seniority is the other .

What do you do ????????????

hardybuck

Teva employees should be satisfied with the deal. That tablet plant has been in trouble for years, and there were a number of calls to close. 8 weeks is more than fair, as the Labour Court agreement would indicate.

I don't see why someone who has been employed there for 20 years should be entitled to more rights than someone who has been there for 5. Moving people around would also increase training costs and further destabilise the operation.

As for Waterford being a unionised city-yeah the traditions are certainly there. However, most MNC's now, especially the newer arrivals, simply won't recognise unions. The voluntarist system in Ireland gives them a lot of room for how they want to operate.

urhavinalaugh

Hi Hardybuck

Your way off the mark in the last few years this tablet plant has produced record volumes of tablets and often then not hit there production targets as there 6 month bonus payouts will testify,the reason this factory is closing is unit costs , for example if it costs 20 cents to make a tablet in Waterford and it only costs 10 cents in Hungry ,they will close Waterford . Can you imagine how the much the Hungarians weekly wages is ,this decision is purely down to greed , nothing else .

So get your facts right !!!!

hardybuck

I'm related to a former long time executive who fought for many years to keep that plant open. I have access to more facts than the ones you have access to. This decision goes back a long way.

Greed-you hardly think Teva is a charity do you!? Would be unusual for a Jewish owned company to be anti-profit.

urhavinalaugh

Yes Hardybuck

Maybe the reason he is now a FORMER member, they did shift a lot of deadwood over recent years ,listen pal that business has been making serious money in the last 5 years ,they made more tablets in the last few years ,over double the previous 2 years .We used to make millions of tablets now were are making billions .

hardybuck

Executive management is quite like Premiership football. Every few years a new manager will take over a team and will proceed to clear out his squad and bring in his own people. This is a politicial reality.

The reason the person I know was there so long was that he was trusted by the owners and founders of the old Norton for being straight. The reason why he left was retirement-and he laughed all the way to the bank on that one. None of the subsequent replacements lasted very long. No need to need to make personal jibes.

If a more profitable alternative becomes available, a multinational will take that alternative. That is what they are in business for. I'm sorry for you if you are losing out, but this is the risk of relying upon MNC investment. No loyalty, especially in a generic manufacturer.

The Union will probably make a stand, but in reality this will only make things worse for the workers. It wouldn't really cause Teva much hassle to pull out of Ireland altogether.

Smiley Burnett

8 weeks based on average pay over 6 months is a good deal, but the issue of seniority is one that would worry me!

20 years service as opposed to maybe 5 or 6???? twenty wins every time in my view!!

urhavinalaugh

Hey

Premiership football comparison is great i could see Fergie doing a great job with Inhalations .

hardybuck

urhavinalaugh wrote: »

Hey

Premiership football comparison is great i could see Fergie doing a great job with Inhalations .

Many of the best managers have the same basic traits, values and personalities, regardless of their industry. Fergie has his a number of resources to manage like any other MD, and was obviously hugely successful.

Just a simple example to help you understand the politicial realities of executive management, and the need for regular clearing out 'deadwood' as you call it.

Maybe its not just at a management level, and they want to clear out some of the deadwood among the operatives as well. This could be the reason for the current union rumblings.

urhavinalaugh

Yes alas DEADWOOD is in most common material in alot of factories ,usually the ones with the biggest mouths and little impact on production ,if they are not out sick (on full pay)they are in on overtime (weekend double time).Screwing the system .

On the subject of sickness and bad attendence the managers and facilitators are the worst offenders out there.

hardybuck

Thats very interesting as I'm currently writing a research paper in the field of absenteeism. While your observations about Teva may be valid, my research to date would show that the opposite is true.

josh3

ur havin a laugh...the vote will be tight i would reckon....im pretty sure its still 6 and two....correct me if im wrong...its not as easy to sort as taking the money..i would reject it myself..

urhavinalaugh

Josh

No its defo 8 full weeks(average over 26 weeks), i have the letter here !

dayshah

Is it capped?

Eg if someone is there 20 years, would they get the 160 weeks?

urhavinalaugh

Yes it your average gross wage x 8 ,and multiply that by the number of years service :eek:

Yes Boss

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

8 weeks based on average pay over 6 months is a good deal, but the issue of seniority is one that would worry me!

20 years service as opposed to maybe 5 or 6???? twenty wins every time in my view!!

I would prefer to see decisions made on ability and not seniority. You see what promoting based on seniority does to the Public Sector... If you have 20 years experience and the ability then you would have nothing to worry about!!

d_j

hardybuck wrote: »

Maybe its not just at a management level, and they want to clear out some of the deadwood among the operatives as well. This could be the reason for the current union rumblings.

Yes, Teva management are obviously hellbent on a 'deadwood' clearance from their solid dose site but this should not come at the expense of their productive, proactive, conscious, decent, loyal and above all honest hard working employees who have helped to build the company to where it is today just because they're based in the site that is shutting shop.

Yes Boss wrote: »

If you have 20 years experience and the ability then you would have nothing to worry about!!

Pity that isn't the case in Teva!

Creamsoda

Teva are being awkward. They have refused to meet the union on many occasions, didn't follow the recommendations from the LRC and won't give redundancy to people that want to take it. If they would give redundancy to all the people that want to take it they could make the amount of people being left go considerably less but they won't do this for some unknown reason. The reason for closing the tablet manufacturing plant is totally down to greed as pointed out previously. They want to get their profits up to 20 billion. Its as simple as that. I work there and we had a big meeting a few months before they announced they were closing to tell us all about it. And a bit before that we were called in to be told that we were all going to have jobs for life there and that there was no chance of the place closing in the next 20 years. They company is shameless and lie through their teeth to get what they want.

Gael23

dayshah wrote: »

Is it capped?

Eg if someone is there 20 years, would they get the 160 weeks?

That seems to be the case from what I understand. There is no cap applied. However, management have threatened to withdraw this and go back to their original offer if the agreement is rejected.
I find this particularly unfair oin the non unionised workers who have no say but can still be affected.

tom111

Company offer to union looks to be rejected unanimously due not to money or seniority but due to company offer be vague and open to interpertation, offer is not 8 week but six weeks, which will be negotiated by company after their offer is accepted by union which everyone knows that company will cause these talks to collapse just like all talks up to now resulting in only 6 weeks being offered, another major point is voluntary redundancies which the company will not allow, they are alot of people looking to leave but cant and others want to stay and also cant. Letters of intimidiation have also been recieved by members of union. In this day and age it is better to be employed with a weekly wage than to have a lump sum which will eventually be gone. Sundays union meeting is scheduled to run for 3 to 4 hours so more should be know by then.

dayshah

ryanf1 wrote: »

I find this particularly unfair oin the non unionised workers who have no say but can still be affected.

If they wanted a vote in union decisions they could have joined the union.

urhavinalaugh

tom111 wrote: »

Company offer to union looks to be rejected unanimously due not to money or seniority but due to company offer be vague and open to interpertation, offer is not 8 week but six weeks, which will be negotiated by company after their offer is accepted by union which everyone knows that company will cause these talks to collapse just like all talks up to now resulting in only 6 weeks being offered, another major point is voluntary redundancies which the company will not allow, they are alot of people looking to leave but cant and others want to stay and also cant. Letters of intimidiation have also been recieved by members of union. In this day and age it is better to be employed with a weekly wage than to have a lump sum which will eventually be gone. Sundays union meeting is scheduled to run for 3 to 4 hours so more should be know by then.

It clearly states in the letter sent to employees on Thursday,Acceptance means implementation of Labour Court Recommendations including the redundancy terms of 8 weeks per year of service,and rejection means reversion to the standard package as in 2002 agreement. These are the facts ,get it right ,dont mislead!!

tom111

Letter sent to employees is actually not the same as letter sent to connolly hall, letter to union is actually shorter and has no explaniation of how many weeks employees will get, only that company will engage with union with regards to payment of 8 weeks as per lrc recommondation. why would they engage with union if they have refused to sit in the same room as them for last 9 months.

Gael23

dayshah wrote: »

If they wanted a vote in union decisions they could have joined the union.

Alot of staff are not allowed join the union, its not their own choice.

dayshah

ryanf1 wrote: »

Alot of staff are not allowed join the union, its not their own choice.

Who doesn't allow them?

StarDust69r

my bf was supposed to be made PERMENANT about 2 years ago. they promised him and even though he works really hard they want to leave him go??? its not about the empolyees being unsatisfied with the redundancy, its about the company acting like (OCK SUCKERS. he shouldn't have to worry about losing his job because he's working there long enough to be made permanent but they LIED and tell him he his losing the job he desperatly needs by a fu(king email???? WTF? can't even be bothered to tell them in fu(king person. bull**** it what I say.

19.5V

I believe that TEVA decided to shut part of its manufacturing due to high costs of doing business in this wonderful country, not just labour costs but they were specific in stating that the costs of doing business, ie legal costs, power supply, telephone and broadband, and the unessential essential self feeding monster IBEC and other rent seeking services, were prohibitive.

I can understand the anger and frustration that the workers feel as I have been through this myself.
I think however that the real problem is this country and the elitism that has all but destroyed it in its rip off approach.
Your union should be fighting the root cause of the reduction in its workforce, fight the rip-off-merchants. In this climate no redundancy package is a good one, having said that I hope all works out well for those about to be made redundant and those who remain in the workforce

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

I believe that TEVA decided to shut part of its manufacturing due to high costs of doing business in this wonderful country, not just labour costs but they were specific in stating that the costs of doing business, ie legal costs, power supply, telephone and broadband, and the unessential essential self feeding monster IBEC and other rent seeking services, were prohibitive.

I can understand the anger and frustration that the workers feel as I have been through this myself.
I think however that the real problem is this country and the elitism that has all but destroyed it in its rip off approach.
Your union should be fighting the root cause of the reduction in its workforce, fight the rip-off-merchants. In this climate no redundancy package is a good one, having said that I hope all works out well for those about to be made redundant and those who remain in the workforce

What have IBEC got to do with the cost of production here in Ireland. You mention rip-off-merchants but you haven't specified who you are talking about. Maybe we should start with the bloated/over paid public service/ semi-state bodies (like ESB). The costs in Ireland are indirect taxes to support the above.

Let's take the ESB - If you are looking for an upgrade in your supply here in Ireland it will cost in the region of €40,000.0 to €100,000.00, for the ESB to install a new sub-station. In American their equivalent will ask you how much extra power do you need and they will supply it at no cost with the understanding that a factory requiring more electricity will have a higher bill which is a win-win situation. However, in Ireland we skin you at every stage!!!!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

What have IBEC got to do with the cost of production here in Ireland. You mention rip-off-merchants but you haven't specified who you are talking about. Maybe we should start with the bloated/over paid public service/ semi-state bodies (like ESB). The costs in Ireland are indirect taxes to support the above.

Let's take the ESB - If you are looking for an upgrade in your supply here in Ireland it will cost in the region of €40,000.0 to €100,000.00, for the ESB to install a new sub-station. In American their equivalent will ask you how much extra power do you need and they will supply it at no cost with the understanding that a factory requiring more electricity will have a higher bill which is a win-win situation. However, in Ireland we skin you at every stage!!!!

aaaa...... i did mention power supply, phones and broadband, did you not see this in my post?

I mention IBEC for the unnecessary regulations that they indirectly support, I was at a few seminars held by IBEC and I firmly believe that in order to survive they thrive on the unnecessary, adding a cost to any company who must comply with the constant updates to regulations, business regulation updates in Ireland must rival Microsoft Vista updates.
IBEC dont fight against regulation, they offset regulation by making sure the company is compliant.

IBEC is a typical "rent seeking" organisation.

urhavinalaugh

19.5V wrote: »

aaaa...... i did mention power supply, phones and broadband, did you not see this in my post?

I mention IBEC for the unnecessary regulations that they indirectly support, I was at a few seminars held by IBEC and I firmly believe that in order to survive they thrive on the unnecessary, adding a cost to any company who must comply with the constant updates to regulations, business regulation updates in Ireland must rival Microsoft Vista updates.
IBEC dont fight against regulation, they offset regulation by making sure the company is compliant.

IBEC is a typical "rent seeking" organisation.

The reason its going to close is ,unit costs in the manufacturing of tablets ,we can make a tablet lets say for 10 cent, and in Hungary the cost maybe as low as say 5 cents, so in simple terms its GREED nothing else , the biggest factor in that is the crazy salaries that Managers here recieve , the basic wage in Teva for process operator is in no way the as high as several other Pharmaceutical plants in Ireland.

19.5V

urhavinalaugh wrote: »

The reason its going to close is ,unit costs in the manufacturing of tablets ,we can make a tablet lets say for 10 cent, and in Hungary the cost maybe as low as say 5 cents, so in simple terms its GREED nothing else , the biggest factor in that is the crazy salaries that Managers here recieve , the basic wage in Teva for process operator is in no way the as high as several other Pharmaceutical plants in Ireland.

Greed or another term could be maximising profit.
The costs that you point out in your post does include the "rent seekers" that pray on business and individuals, you have to work hard to pay these rent seekers and hold down your job, the greed of the irish system and government has outweighed the greed of any employer in this country.

we replaced the english landlord with a worse cute hoorisim, an irish landlord

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

Greed or another term could be maximising profit.
The costs that you point out in your post does include the "rent seekers" that pray on business and individuals, you have to work hard to pay these rent seekers and hold down your job, the greed of the irish system and government has outweighed the greed of any employer in this country.

we replaced the english landlord with a worse cute hoorisim, an irish landlord

Unfortunately, the rent requested was normally to cover the exorbitant price paid for the unit in the first instance. That was made worse by Government promoted rent reviews that only went in one direction (up). The rising costs in Ireland were driven by the Irish Government with pro-cyclical economic policies. That is why we are where we are!!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

Unfortunately, the rent requested was normally to cover the exorbitant price paid for the unit in the first instance. That was made worse by Government promoted rent reviews that only went in one direction (up). The rising costs in Ireland were driven by the Irish Government with pro-cyclical economic policies. That is why we are where we are!!

I am using the words rent seekers as a phrase to catagorise systems that are set up to extract money from a business or individual

i.e. Auctioneers, if I want to buy or sell house I (more or less) need to engage an auctioneer........think about it.........., I need to pay someone a percentage to sell or buy something that I own, or want to own.............auctioneers are "rent seekers"

B.E.R
N.C.T
are the latest rent seekers to set up in Ireland, sorry for the content drift folks

jay.i.am

Most of the products manufactured in Waterford are going to eastern european sites or third party sites in India unless you work for nothing there is no way you can compete with labour cost in these countries.Anyway the main issue now is not that its closing or even the proposed 8 weeks but the refusal to recognise seniorority to a man. Having worked in both sites the companies stance of it being a skills issue is a blatant lie. There has been a constant flow of people between the 2 sites to suit buisness needs over the years. This announcement was made last september and the companys refusal to sit down with the union and engage in a method for a smooth transfer of people with service has us where we are today.Its always been a case of last in first out regardless of what site you were working why should it be any different now.

19.5V

jay.i.am wrote: »

Most of the products manufactured in Waterford are going to eastern european sites or third party sites in India unless you work for nothing there is no way you can compete with labour cost in these countries.Anyway the main issue now is not that its closing or even the proposed 8 weeks but the refusal to recognise seniorority to a man. Having worked in both sites the companies stance of it being a skills issue is a blatant lie. There has been a constant flow of people between the 2 sites to suit buisness needs over the years. This announcement was made last september and the companys refusal to sit down with the union and engage in a method for a smooth transfer of people with service has us where we are today.Its always been a case of last in first out regardless of what site you were working why should it be any different now.

I admire principals, for what are we without them.
I wish some of your fellow countrymen maintained basic human and business principals.


Fight for your rights.

tom111

Company are posting another letter to union members, expect it tomorrow will we finally get some answers or more lies........

Creamsoda

Oh I'm sure it will be another vague misleading letter that tells us nothing and just confuses us even more. That's wat the company want, divide and conquer seems to be their tactic and unfortunately it seems to be working.

Insane1

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

jay.i.am

Insane1 wrote: »

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

urhavinalaugh

Insane1 wrote: »

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

Well said ,i would be embarrassed to tell the Glass former workers a package like this was offered and they rejected it .

Hopefully the workers will wake up to reality and the times we live in .:eek:

Yes Boss

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

You retain the people who are most competent which don't always equate to the most senior! If you were there only 3 years but performed much better than a person who was there 10 years - you wouldn't believe that is fair either!!

urhavinalaugh

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

Thats right well said 8 weeks is a good deal ,too right .!!:D

Insane1

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

I drink with a couple of employees of TEVA and have seen some of the communications that were sent out. My understanding is that 45 people will be transferring to the other plant based on seniority. This is in black and white signed by the company. Therefore the company has recognised seniority has it not? This with 8 weeks is an incredible outcome for the union for which its members should be proud.

Do you think that an organisation the size of TEVA dont have a contingency plan in the event of a strike? These people are experts at it..
Do you not think they might have been stock piling months worth of stock to keep their customers supplied in the event of a strike??
How many months does that give them to sit pretty?
How many months would you be willing to stand outside??
How many months will you allow your wife and children be affected for??
How much money will you lose if they decide that the stock pile is big enough to have enough time to move that part of the business abroad too?
If you do get full seniority after a strike, do you think they will invest another cent here in Waterford? The fate of TEVA inhalers in Waterford would well and truly be sealed including those very people that were transferred...

Don't go down the same Greed path as the Company... Accept the deal and put that place behind you, for if you dont I fear nobody will be behind you....

Bduffman

Who honestly thinks that the union are insisting on seniority on a matter of principle? It just so happens that the majority of the union committee are solid dose with long service. They are only looking after themselves. They can hardly get themselves to look at an Inhalations Operator in the eye who they know will lose their job if full seniority is enforced.
Selection should be based on skills first, ability second & all other things being equal, seniority. You can't transfer over 300 people in one go & expect the business to go on as normal.
There have been a lot of blatant lies on this thread about the redundancy as well.
The 8 weeks will be paid if the agreement is accepted.
Seniority will still be respected if the agreement is accepted. It will have even more relevance when there is only an Inhalations plant.
The company is complying with all the LRC recommendations if the agreement is accepted.
Temporaries are still temporaries because THEIR UNION DIDN'T FIGHT THEIR CASE. Thats supposed to be the unions job - to look after its members - no? Its no good crying about it now & blaming the company.