Gay Couple Sentenced to 14 Years for Being Gay

drusk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/africa/10130240.stm

A judge in Malawi has imposed a maximum sentence of 14 years in prison with hard labour on a gay couple convicted of gross indecency and unnatural acts.

The judge said he wanted to protect the public from "people like you".
Steven Monjeza, 26, and Tiwonge Chimbalanga, 20, have been in jail since they were arrested in December after holding an engagement ceremony.
The case has sparked international condemnation and a debate about homosexuality in the country.



The British government, Malawi's largest donor, expressed its "dismay" at the sentences, but has not withdrawn aid. The US state department, meanwhile, said the case was "a step backwards in the protection of human rights in Malawi".

Handing down sentence in the commercial capital, Blantyre, Judge Nyakwawa Usiwa-Usiwa told the pair: "I will give you a scaring sentence so that the public be protected from people like you, so that we are not tempted to emulate this horrendous example."



The judge said the pair - whom he convicted on Tuesday - had shown no remorse. "We are sitting here to represent the Malawi society, which I do not believe is ready at this point in time to see its sons getting married to other sons or conducting engagement ceremonies," said the judge.
The BBC's Raphael Tenthani in Blantyre says Monjeza, who is unemployed, broke down in tears while Chimbalanga remained calm.


"I am not worried," Chimbalanga, a hotel janitor, told reporters as he was led away. Defence lawyer Mauya Msuku told the BBC that they would appeal. The courtroom was packed, and hundreds of people gathered outside the building. Some shouted abuse as the couple were taken back to jail.


There were shouts of "You got what you deserve!" and "Fourteen years is not enough, they should get 50!" Mr Msuku had argued for a lighter sentence, pointing out that the pair's actions had not victimised anyone.
"Here are two consenting adults doing their thing in private. Nobody will be threatened or offended if they are released into society," he said on Tuesday.

Gift Trapence, from the Centre for Development of People (Cedep), a human rights group, described it as a sad day for Malawi.


"How can they get 14 years simply for loving one another?" he asked. "Even if they are jailed for 20 years you can't change their sexuality.
Michelle Kagari, deputy Africa director of Amnesty International, called the sentence "an outrage", reports the AP news agency. She described the pair as "prisoners of conscience" and said Amnesty would continue to campaign for them to be freed.


UK gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell pointed out that the laws under which the pair were convicted were introduced during British colonial rule.
"These laws are a foreign imposition. They are not African," he said.
He described the sentence as "brutal" and more severe than for rapists, armed robbers and killers.



The men had denied the charges and their lawyers said their constitutional rights had been violated.


Cedep and the Centre for Human Rights and Rehabilitation (CHRR) have been urging Malawi's authorities to relax the country's stance on homosexuals.


Our reporter says the government has come under pressure from Western donors over the issue.

How sad is this!? They are imprisoned for 14 years for nothing more than loving each other. Another story that made me think how lucky and progressive the western world is in terms of civil rights.

But what I'm interested to find out is - are there any boardsies who think that this is a just sentence? If not, do you think the western world should take action against Malawi for injustice and going against what we consider here as basic human, civil rights?

Captain Chaos

Somehow, I don't think 14 years will straighten them out.

Cut all aid etc. and impose trade embargoes until they're released.

genericguy

said it before and i'll say it again:

africa is not civilised. let them fcuk off, stop asking for aid until they evolve to the same level of civilisation as the rest of us.


although admittedly, dermot ahern's power in this country doesn't serve my argument very well...

Blackhorse Slim

Handing down sentence in the commercial capital, Blantyre, Judge Nyakwawa Usiwa-Usiwa told the pair: "I will give you a scaring sentence so that the public be protected from people like you, so that we are not tempted to emulate this horrendous example."

Judge is obviously still in the closet.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Cut all aid etc. and impose trade embargoes until they're released.

We should be so lucky, Liz O'Donnell and others would do their nut.

goat2

to think that a person got four yrs here for the death of her child, when potty training.

Canard

What kind of logic do the judges see in that? Why do they honestly think that warrants a 14 year sentence? Seriously...

Spunge

Wouldn't they get the death penalty in some countries ?

goat2

Patchy~ wrote: »

What kind of logic do the judges see in that? Why do they honestly think that warrants a 14 year sentence? Seriously...

i feel sorry for those people, this is not a crime

Euro_Kraut

Deleted User wrote: »

Cut all aid etc. and impose trade embargoes until they're released.

Unfortunately cutting aid will do nothing to change attitudes there. The government will still trundle on and the ones that will suffer are the poorest.

It also raises the issue of whether those who give financial aid ought to dictate social policy. For example would it have been appropriate to the EU to insist that abortion is legal here before give us any structural funds or CAP payments? Prehaps it is. I'm sure there would have been plenty of opposition to it here though as there would be in Malawi.

The Master

Please keep on topic folks

The last thread about this subject had to be closed due to persistent trolling

Euro_Kraut

genericguy wrote: »

africa is not civilised. let them fcuk off, stop asking for aid until they evolve to the same level of civilisation as the rest of us.

Let not get up on our high horse about this. Homosexuality was illegal in Ireland up until 1993.

Not long ago we were pretty backward to.

twinQuins

Patchy~ wrote: »

What kind of logic do the judges see in that? Why do they honestly think that warrants a 14 year sentence? Seriously...

Remember, it wasn't that long ago it was illegal here and our judges were unwilling to overturn the law.

Poly

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Let not get up on our high horse about this. Homosexuality was illegal in Ireland up until 1993.

Not long ago we were pretty backward to.

and condoms were illegal too FFS!

walshb

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Let not get up on our high horse about this. Homosexuality was illegal in Ireland up until 1993.

Not long ago we were pretty backward to.

Yeah, we were backward, but we never got thrown free ****ing money either.

krudler

So the way to stop someone being gay is to send them to....prison?

clearly the judge has never seen Oz.

krudler

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, we were backward, but we never got thrown free ****ing money either.

We were being thrown free money by Europe up until recently...

walshb

krudler wrote: »

We were being thrown free money by Europe up until recently...

Jeez, I wish I saw some of it. They must have thrown that "free" money to Malawi.
In one hand and out the other.

walshb

Anyway, to the point. It's their country, their people and their laws, WTF
has it got to do with us? It's not my cup of tea, but like I said, it ain't my business.

Euro_Kraut

krudler wrote: »

We were being thrown free money by Europe up until recently...

Still are. We are being backed to the hilt by the ECB who are giving us a special rate on the loans we need for NAMA. This in turns raises the cost of borrowing for other EU members states.

walshb

Yes, quick, give the money back, we Irish deserve ****ing nothing....

dr.bollocko

walshb wrote: »

Yes, quick, give the money back, we Irish deserve ****ing nothing....

This thread has nothing to do with Irish aid sent to Africa or its purpose. Please try and keep on topic.
And if you don't care as you suggested you didn't I might suggest you don't bother posting in the thread at all.

Micky Dolenz

If 14 years wasn't bad enough, It's 14 years of hard labour. Sometimes it's great to live in a country like ours.

chopperbyrne

Obviously completely undeserved, but if you know your country has that kind of a stance on homosexuality, why would you have an engagement ceremony?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cutting aid will make them accept gay couples???


It hasn't been too long since another country stopped forcing their view on us, why are we so quick to suggest doing the same to another?

I don't believe in the law personally, but forcing them to change this law is not the answer. Very much like Ireland, acceptance of this sort of thing is more dominant in the younger generation and the older generations are more resistant to it. It's definately not something that's going to change over night...

dr.bollocko

A number of unnecessary posts removed from this thread.
Folks please leave the jibes and personal stuff to PM where I don't have the pleasure of moderating it.

starbelgrade

Poly wrote: »

and condoms were illegal too FFS!

And abortion is still illegal, even for rape & abuse victims.

Divorce was only recently made legal.

Gay marraiges are still illegal.

Most of our schools are run by a religious organisation instead of the state.

Yep - Ireland. A model for advanced civilisation.

Micky Dolenz

starbelgrade wrote: »

And abortion is still illegal, even for rape & abuse victims.

Divorce was only recently made legal.

Gay marraiges are still illegal.

Most of our schools are run by a religious organisation instead of the state.

Yep - Ireland. A model for advanced civilisation.

But if a gay couple have a wedding ceremony here, The worst consequence is that it isn't recognised by the state. Hardly comparable to 14 years hard labour.

starbelgrade

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, we were backward, but we never got thrown free ****ing money either.

Really? So what would you call Ireland's net receipts of €34 billion since joining the then European Community in 1973?

sdanseo

Someone has to say it - without being in any way anti-gay or anything - but if they knew it was against the law then they knew the risks, and the penalties. Not condoning it, but they should have had a bit more cop on.

Wolfe Tone

Cut all aid etc. and impose trade embargoes until they're released.

Thats right, never mind all the people who rely on this aid. Two wrongs don't make a right.

starbelgrade

sdonn wrote: »

Someone has to say it - without being in any way anti-gay or anything - but if they knew it was against the law then they knew the risks, and the penalties. Not condoning it, but they should have had a bit more cop on.

Yeah - I'm surprised that none of their friends said to them, "Don't be so gay".

sdanseo

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yeah - I'm surprised that none of their friends said to them, "Don't be so gay".

You know what I mean. If it carries such a hard penalty that they presumably knew about, why didn't they skip the country or not do it? If I was seeing a girl and someone told me if I didn't stop id be breaking my back for the next 14 years, I'd be out of Ireland (or finding a new lady friend) :P

starbelgrade

sdonn wrote: »

You know what I mean. If it carries such a hard penalty that they presumably knew about, why didn't they skip the country or not do it? If I was seeing a girl and someone told me if I didn't stop id be breaking my back for the next 14 years, I'd be out of Ireland (or finding a new lady friend) :P

Well, I'm sure if they had the luxury of being able to "skip the country" they might have done so. Or maybe they just decided that what they were doing was perfectly natural & never thought it would come to this.

drusk

sdonn wrote: »

Someone has to say it - without being in any way anti-gay or anything - but if they knew it was against the law then they knew the risks, and the penalties. Not condoning it, but they should have had a bit more cop on.

I believe it's called 'taking a stand'. The two guys made their relationship public to encourage visibility and acceptance and to promote openness and equality. Holding an engagement party that was reported in local media was their way of taking a stand. Homosexuality would still be illegal in Ireland, and in much of the rest of the western world, had people like David Norris and other campaigners for justice not taken a stand.

Come to think of it - taking stands against racism, the oppression of women and many other societal issued that were once considered acceptable ALL carried with them great risk. I have a feeling that the two men in question never suspected they would ever be imprisoned for 'taking a stand.'

I think it was incredibly brave of them. I doubt either of them ever expected the penalty would be actually handed out - and to its maximum.

macaronicheese

This is backdoor justice at its best

sdanseo

drusk wrote: »

I believe it's called 'taking a stand'. The two guys made their relationship public to encourage visibility and acceptance and to promote openness and equality. Holding an engagement party that was reported in local media was their way of taking a stand. Homosexuality would still be illegal in Ireland, and in much of the rest of the western world, had people like David Norris and other campaigners for justice not taken a stand.

Come to think of it - taking stands against racism, the oppression of women and many other societal issued that were once considered acceptable ALL carried with them great risk. I have a feeling that the two men in question never suspected they would ever be imprisoned for 'taking a stand.'

I think it was incredibly brave of them. I doubt either of them ever expected the penalty would be actually handed out - and to its maximum.

Oh I agree completely - brave, honorable and morally right by all means. Still short-sighted though if they didn't expect the penalty.

macaronicheese wrote: »

This is backdoor justice at its best

You may wanna rephrase that :P

wes

Ridiculous law, that punishes 2 men, who have done nothing to hurt anyone.

General Zod

sdonn wrote: »

Someone has to say it - without being in any way anti-gay or anything - but if they knew it was against the law then they knew the risks, and the penalties. Not condoning it, but they should have had a bit more cop on.

Civil rights activists faced the same opposition in the 60's. sometimes you have to make a stand.

Pace2008

krudler wrote: »

So the way to stop someone being gay is to send them to....prison?

clearly the judge has never seen Oz.

Yeah, those gays enjoy rape almost as much as women do.

Gerry Asstrix

Bit of a stiff sentence alright

goat2

Pace2008 wrote: »

Yeah, those gays enjoy rape almost as much as women do.

what was that about
what kind of mind would think that
who ever said any woman enjoyed being raped

Millicent

Pace2008 wrote: »

Yeah, those gays enjoy rape almost as much as women do.

One of the most fucked up but very sweet and believable gay relationships was on that show. The guy who plays Stabler in Law and Order SVU played one of the characters and it was really well written.

I think you're taking offence where none was offended.

Sir Gallagher

If there is one thing i have been reminded of in this thread, it's that Oz is a cracking tv show and i must rewatch it.

Pace2008

Millicent wrote: »

One of the most fucked up but very sweet and believable gay relationships was on that show. The guy who plays Stabler in Law and Order SVU played one of the characters and it was really well written.

I think you're taking offence where none was offended.

I was hungover and on my man period when I wrote that. There's actually very little that offends me.

I've watched Oz, btw.

northern lights

To be sent to jail for loving somebody, regardless of what sex they are, is just so sad and inhuman imo. To be love and be loved is what makes us decent human beings. That to me is more important than the gender of those involved

Aids By Google

northern lights wrote: »

To be sent to jail for loving somebody, regardless of what sex they are, is just so sad and inhuman imo. To be love and be loved is what makes us decent human beings. That to me is more important than the gender of those involved

tbh it is their country and it is their law. Sadly in our most modern of societies, which has moved past sending 10 year olds up chimneys and down coal mines, so to speak, we feel that other countries have no right to do what we did or behave like we did. We being those in the past.

Why other countries don't follow our example I'll never know.

randylonghorn

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, to the point. It's their country, their people and their laws, WTF has it got to do with us? It's not my cup of tea, but like I said, it ain't my business.

"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne, 1624

Aids By Google wrote: »

tbh it is their country and it is their law. Sadly in our most modern of societies, which has moved past sending 10 year olds up chimneys and down coal mines, so to speak, we feel that other countries have no right to do what we did or behave like we did. We being those in the past.

Why other countries don't follow our example I'll never know.

I agree with your basic point, that all societies tend to be ethnocentric and assume that their own norms and mores are superior to those of other societies, usually with little or no justification.

I also agree that a consciousness of our own history should teach us a little humility when interacting with other societies and cultures ... and some of the reports published over the last few years remind us that in some areas our darker history is still with us!

Issues like this go beyond local societal norms, though, to basic human rights and issues of natural justice. It is ridiculous and unjust, indeed inhumane, that two people should be sentenced to 14 years hard labour for affirming their love for one another publicly. And we should be prepared to stand up and say so ... the knowledge that our society once held similar attitudes should temper our tone, certainly, but it should not silence us.

the_syco

You goto prison, you stand a good chance of getting f**ked in the ass.

You send two gays guys to prison, what's to stop them from f**king each other up the ass?

And 2 years hard labour, they'll be well built. If they split up, they'll have their pick of "ass".

Mike 1972

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, we were backward, but we never got thrown free ****ing money either.

*cough* EU structural funds *cough*

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats right, never mind all the people who rely on this aid. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Im sure this is not the only country in the world with people who could could benefit from Aid. In any case why give the money directly to the Government there when there are NGO's which could put the money to better use.
Such as Gay rights groups or a suitable opposition group with designs on overthrowing the Government