Attempted abductions in Kildare/North Dublin [mod warning in effect #162 ]

allandanyways

Just a note to parents to be ever vigilant as usual, but even more so at the moment. Since the start of May, there have been several abduction attempts made towards young children in Kildare and Dublin.

One such incident took place in Kilteel last weekend ( link ) and there have been other attempts in Swords ( link ), Newcastle and Celbridge.

I'm not suggesting that the attempts are linked, there have just been several of them since the start of the month and although I'm not a parent, I have a lot of responsibility for my little sister and I will not be letting her out of my sight. I was sent a text and and email from friends of mine who are parents to spread the word about the attempts and just to warn parents to be careful, especially if children are playing in the front garden or on estate greens (which is where the children in Swords were approached).

Spread the word and keep an eye out for any suspicious activity in your area.



Mod edit: Please remember civil posting is expected on this forum and we have a zero tolerance for flaming and trolling. IF you are unsure what this means please consult the charter or the forum or the site FAQ

Deliverance

It is strange to say the least. The fact that this has happened in a short period of time in different areas is worthy of note and should not be ignored as such as scare tactics.

i would imagine that something sinister is happening due to the influx of immigrants and the economic downturn. People need to grow a new attitude with regards to the safety of their children. In some cultures they are an asset.

Not starting a panic or anything but it is an issue worth looking at. For some scum in life our youth and our free attitudes are picking grounds for these criminals. from what I have seen in general these scum are now a part of our life with their criminal culture.

It is unfortunate that we have to adapt a more secure environment as individuals due to the above mentioned multicultural influxes. That is life I guess as parents who have to unfortunately teach our kids more about this potential danger that does exist.

we'llallhavetea_old

*shudders*

thank allandanyways, will be extra vigilant. to think some of the children in our estate are allowed out without any supervision makes my skin crawl. i'll be keeping an eye out for them more so now.

pickarooney

Is this based on any verified incidents or just pointless scaremongering?

allandanyways

pickarooney wrote: »

Is this based on any verified incidents or just pointless scaremongering?

I have links to reports on the attempts in Kilteel and Swords in my original post, and Gardaí in Rathcoole have confirmed the attempt in Newcastle.

lardossan

Deliverance wrote: »

i would imagine that something sinister is happening due to the influx of immigrants

...multicultural influxes.

any actual statistic to back this up or are you just a prejudiced scaremongering bigot?

stovelid

I received a similar warning yesterday about attempted abductions in the Saggart, Rathcoole and Brittas areas. The person who sent this on to me said the schools in the area(s) relayed a Gardai warning.

Khannie

lardossan wrote: »

any actual statistic to back this up or are you just a prejudiced scaremongering bigot?

That's a bit over the top. Attack the post, not the poster etc.

Ludo

Deliverance wrote: »

i would imagine that something sinister is happening due to the influx of immigrants and the economic downturn. People need to grow a new attitude with regards to the safety of their children. In some cultures they are an asset.

So now they are taking our kids as well as our jobs????

Davidth88

Lets not get dragged off thread here


I also heard via the ' jungle drums ' about attempted abduction in Rathcoole .


Are any of these ( apart from the ones with newspaper reports / police involvement ) at all true

I have heard nothing about one in Celbridge or Newcastle ( unless this is linked to the Rathcoole one )

LegacyUser

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

*shudders*

thank allandanyways, will be extra vigilant. to think some of the children in our estate are allowed out without any supervision makes my skin crawl. i'll be keeping an eye out for them more so now.

At what age do we let the children out unsupervised to learn the skills of being vaguely self-sufficient ?

we'llallhavetea_old

QuickQuery wrote: »

At what age do we let the children out unsupervised to learn the skills of being vaguely self-sufficient ?

it depends on the child, but there are children as young as three yrs old outside, unsupervised in our estate. my daughter is nearly six, not a hope i wouldn't be watching her for another long while yet.

parsi

There is a greater risk to kids out there.

We don't hear about it as much.

It doesn't make the jungle drums.

It doesn't be forwarded around in chain emails.

The Guards comments on it are ignored.

It's the risk to unrestrained children in cars - it's visible every day in all strata of society but yet no-one gets themselves in a twist about it ?

Is it because it's easier to blame and be worried about a whispy boogie-person image than worry about an issue over which we all have direct control ?

we'llallhavetea_old

parsi wrote: »

There is a greater risk to kids out there.

We don't hear about it as much.

It doesn't make the jungle drums.

It doesn't be forwarded around in chain emails.

The Guards comments on it are ignored.

It's the risk to unrestrained children in cars - it's visible every day in all strata of society but yet no-one gets themselves in a twist about it ?

Is it because it's easier to blame and be worried about a whispy boogie-person image than worry about an issue over which we all have direct control ?

i honestly don't know anyone who doesn't seat belt their child appropriately in the car.
or themselves for that matter.

Deliverance

lardossan wrote: »

any actual statistic to back this up or are you just a prejudiced scaremongering bigot?

My mistake, should have elaborated more. I have a relative who is a guard in Dublin. He has informed me in general conversation that the levels of crime are rising and the people that are commiting these crimes are beyond belief by their actions and have no respect at all for the social norm that exists in Irish culture. These people are both local and imported. This makes it more difficult for the local gaurdai to deal with in the intelligence sense.

The influx of immigrants in any country naturally introduces good and bad cultures. Criminal and otherwise. In this case this thread is about the criminal element at least from my point of view.

This is why the guards in some cases have employed help from other involved countries i.e. detectives and police from other countries to more understand the additional crime cultures and techniques that naturally happen due to our more multicultural society.

That is the way I look at it. I didn't put it across well enough in my original post. I'll think more carefully in future before providing some folks with the oppurtunity to attack me personally.

lynski

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i honestly don't know anyone who doesn't seat belt their child appropriately in the car.
or themselves for that matter.

I do. My neighbour does it all the time with her 4 yr old, i have never seen him belted in.
I have seen it multiple times in around dublin - used to travel a lot on a bus and the height helps. Saw 4-5 young children in the back of a car one day all unbelted, nevermind a car seat.

that said, my niece used to sit on her grandads knee and 'drive' the car from about 3yrs of age, again no belts.

allandanyways

Just to bring this thread back on topic, friend of mine with kids in the national school in Rathcoole told me that notes were sent home on Friday warning about the attempts. (Not 100% of this, word of mouth, maybe a boardsie with kids in the school can verify)

Diddler1977

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055489222

The above was written a year ago. Maybe these 4 men have been trying since then to abduct a child.

Most abductions in Ireland are carried out by someone who knows the child (family going through divorces, etc. or taking children out of the country)

Diddler1977

Deliverance wrote: »

My mistake, should have elaborated more. I have a relative who is a guard in Dublin. He has informed me in general conversation that the levels of crime are rising and the people that are commiting these crimes are beyond belief by their actions and have no respect at all for the social norm that exists in Irish culture.

http://www.cso.ie/Quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=cja01c1.asp&TableName=Homicide+Offences&StatisticalProduct=DB_CJ

Best to look at stats rather then taking the conversation of a garda friend as fact.

Jennyfer

allandanyways wrote: »

Just to bring this thread back on topic, friend of mine with kids in the national school in Rathcoole told me that notes were sent home on Friday warning about the attempts. (Not 100% of this, word of mouth, maybe a boardsie with kids in the school can verify)

I was out with my cousin yesterday and her kids are in school in Rathcoole, she said they got notes about the attempted abductions sent home on Tuesday, possibly a different school, but yes, they are being circulated on advice from the Gardai apparently.

Deliverance

Diddler1977 wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/Quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=cja01c1.asp&TableName=Homicide+Offences&StatisticalProduct=DB_CJ

Best to look at stats rather then taking the conversation of a garda friend as fact.

I will in future read some statistical facts and pass on this info to my garda friend and his associates, they are on the frontline and are dealing directly with the criminals in question... I am sure they will appreciate your input as much as I have via the statistical sense.

smelltheglove

I havent read the whole thread sorry but yes this has been garda confirmed. I live in Lucan and have heard the story a few times. One person whose brother is a gard told my husband to watch out for the kids, another person told us the story going around was that its 2 men in a car with a puppy, how true that is I dont know but hey thats what we heard.

What I can confirm is that a few weeks back a man was caught on an 8ft wall taking pictures of the children in my daughters playschool, the staff ran around after him but by the time they got aorund the back he was gone. I of course alerted my older daughters principle of this being just around the corner and he confirmed he had reports of flashers in the local parks recently also. I have also been told of a paedophile in the Adamstown area, although there are most likely more than just one in the whole Lucan area, its just unfortunately as parents we are not alerted to who exactly is a register paedophile or sex offender.

We are no longer letting our kids out onto the street to play, they are sent to the back garden and we are happy of any or all of their friends play there with them, at least we know they are all secure.

RIRI

I live in Newcastle & my son goes to school there. The school newsletter on Friday stated that the attempted abduction had been confirmed as a misunderstanding by Rathcoole Gardai.

We should keep in mind that abductions in Ireland are quite rare, that said we should all be vigilant all the time (without being paranoid iykim)

Deliverance

RIRI wrote: »

I live in Newcastle & my son goes to school there. The school newsletter on Friday stated that the attempted abduction had been confirmed as a misunderstanding by Rathcoole Gardai.

We should keep in mind that abductions in Ireland are quite rare, that said we should all be vigilant all the time (without being paranoid iykim)

Totally agree. A point I would like to make as well after some thought is that statistics are just statistics i.e. they are only records of events past and pretty useless in the here and now.

If a parent has concerns and has witnessed from word of mouth or by directly experienced events in the here and now then this is not scaremongering. Rather it is a concern which is put up to be discussed intelligently via talking to other parents on a forum with similar concerns and experiences who may want to contribute.

Previouly this type of discussion was not and indeed is still not available without organising labour intensive organising and time constraints not to mention location issues. The social net allows us all to connect and build on opinions for good or bad on an infinite amount of issues immediately.

The social networking phenomenon which is becoming more and more part of our daily lives does actually give a heads up via chats and discussion on social forums such as this one.

An early heads up of this type of potential activity ie 'abduction attempts' offers a way to raise awareness of these potential activities by giving folks an early warning system. This early warning system lessens the potential for children becoming statistics.

Prevention by vigilance and communication is far better than what could otherwise occur ie if no one was able to talk openly and discuss experiences and share the up to date news which is part of the information society that we live in today.

Hope that makes sense, I have been thinking about it a lot from the sense of what others have said on this thread in a good and bad way. Cue another thesis on public attitudes combined with the Internet;)

Quality

I believe that the same guy tried to abduct more children from Julianstown CO Meath recently from this link

Link

This guy was also seen in my sisters estate in Swords, similar car details etc... he was watching children, One of her neighbours went out to approach the car and he drove off.


I think parents should have a bit of cop on when they let their kids out to play, keep them in sight, dont let them roam and warn them about the dangers of talking to strangers.

It pisses me off when I see kids of 4 and 5 out playing unsupervised.

doodlebug165

lardossan wrote: »

any actual statistic to back this up or are you just a prejudiced scaremongering bigot?

A bit harsh don't you think??
Fact: Kids are abducted, some right from their beds and back gardens. Madeline Mc Cann for starters and there's hundreds more each year. As a parent I appreciate the warning in advance, my 6 year old hasn't been allowed out since and I understand things have a tendency to get overhyped but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

dynamick

Apparently there was a similar incident recently in my estate with a creepy looking man watching children. Only when my neighbour told me where it happened it and the description of the predator it turned out to be me. The child was my son and I had been waiting for him to finish playing. Must have a shave some time and can't be too careful about them pedos.

Deliverance wrote:

something sinister is happening due to the influx of immigrants

Yes, I also blame the immigrants. And they're taking our jobs.

Now, hatemongering racist bigots, they're fine and pose no danger to our children.

Diddler1977

Quality wrote: »

I believe that the same guy tried to abduct more children from Julianstown CO Meath recently from this link

Link

This guy was also seen in my sisters estate in Swords, similar car details etc... he was watching children, One of her neighbours went out to approach the car and he drove off.


I think parents should have a bit of cop on when they let their kids out to play, keep them in sight, dont let them roam and warn them about the dangers of talking to strangers.

It pisses me off when I see kids of 4 and 5 out playing unsupervised.

Anyone have a link to a reputable news agency rather then linking to speculative rumour spreading links on FB and the like?

Quality

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Anyone have a link to a reputable news agency rather then linking to speculative rumour spreading links on FB and the like?

Did you know that in cases of attempted abduction the police actually ask the familes not to contact the press for fear of scaremongering!

Diddler1977

Quality wrote: »

Did you know that in cases of attempted abduction the police actually ask the familes not to contact the press for fear of scaremongering!

I'm not looking for speculative scaremongering quotes from families. I am looking for information or warnings from reputable news agencies.

Does anyone have a link to any warnings from a government body (.ie. An Garda Siochana) or a reputable news agency (RTE, Irish times, etc.)? Anybody have any links that can be verified and that are not based on rumour or hearsay?

Nevyn

The garda are going to be hoping to catch the perps and won't have it in the media as a result to scare them off, as ever they garda tell the schools and the schools send notes home to parents thats how the system works.

Quality

Well if the Garda are advising families not to contact the media, I am sure they are not
going to do it themselves.

Plus my last statement was not based on hearsay or rumour! It was based on a family where an atttwmpted
abduction occurred. The horses mouth so to speak! The primary source.

I don't see how you can dismiss their quotes! How else do you think the Garda get to hear about attempted abductions only when families report them!

amdublin

WTH!!! The guards don't tell the media???

I swear to god if my child is abducted and the guards know about a person attempting abductions and have not alerted the media AND the schools (not JUST the schools) I will be holding them responsibility.
for my child's lack of safety.
That is just ridiculous. I cannot believe it. I am not happy. How do you guys know this?

Thaedydal wrote: »

The garda are going to be hoping to catch the perps and won't have it in the media as a result to scare them off, as ever they garda tell the schools and the schools send notes home to parents thats how the system works.

How do you know this?

This is really upsetting me. What if your child goes to a school outside the area and is just visiting the area. Surely parents need to be alerted though the media and not just schools?????

Quality wrote: »

I believe that the same guy tried to abduct more children from Julianstown CO Meath recently from this link

Link

I've seen this on FB and I've ignored it as scaremongering. I want news like this to come through the police and communicated outward through the media not [EMAIL="blo@dy"]blo@dy[/EMAIL] facebook. I'm in shock. I live in Dublin and could bring my child on holidays to any other county in Ireland and because we are not in the school in that county I won't know about attempted abductions. This just does not make sense to me??!!!

smelltheglove

Seriously guys, why only heed the warning if the statement has been released by the gardai? Does it take for a child to be actually snatched before people will listen and think, oh maybe I should warn others to watch out for their kids???

I have heard from enough sources, experienced the fact that a 'creepy man' was caught taking pictures over the wall of my daughters playground, flashers in the local park, thats enough for me to think I need to watch my children.

And on the other hand, the gardai not contacting the media may indeed be the case that they dont want the perps to move along somewhere else, maybe they have leads that they are working on and media spreading the word would send this or these people to somewhere out of their jurisdiction where they havent a hope of finding them.

The way I see it is its no harm being extra careful on the kids, as I said before I am now taking all the kids my kids play with into the back garden on a daily basis, not only do I want my kids safe but I want them safe also.

Nevyn

How do I know, because this is how it's done, it's how it's always been done from when when I was in primary school, notes would come home with me for my parents and it's been the same for the last 8 years my eldest has been in school.

Quality

Heres another one...

Not far from where I grew up...

Fairly recent tooo...


Hopefully not based on hearsay or rumour as Diddler would like you to think, I would hope that when parents receive a letter like this home that they would take it seriously...

amdublin

Quality wrote: »

I would hope that when parents receive a letter like this home that they would take it seriously...

But what if you don't get this letter home??? I holiday in Wexford & Galway every year. What if I arrive there completely unaware of attempted abductions in the area.

Facebook is all very well but it is impossible to know what is scaremongering and what is not with social networking nowadays - frankly they read to me like urban myths and spread ten million times faster than they used to before the internet. Why would the guards not just issue a statement through an official source???? The more I think about this situation the more I am stressing myself out.

Quality

listen am, I am not trying to frighten you or anyone on here. I have 3 kids myself and tbh, I think it is the people you are close to that pose more of a threat to your children than the man in the white van.

I just think people should be aware that this sort of thing does happen, Thankfully most of them are only attempted.

but I think awareness is important.. talking to your children and keeping them safe.

Diddler1977

smelltheglove wrote: »

Seriously guys, why only heed the warning if the statement has been released by the gardai? Does it take for a child to be actually snatched before people will listen and think, oh maybe I should warn others to watch out for their kids???


.

Because it is a verifiable serious authenticatable source - not scaremongering, rumour & speculation

amdublin

Quality wrote: »

listen am, I am not trying to frighten you or anyone on here. I have 3 kids myself and tbh, I think it is the people you are close to that pose more of a threat to your children than the man in the white van.

I just think people should be aware that this sort of thing does happen, Thankfully most of them are only attempted.

but I think awareness is important.. talking to your children and keeping them safe.

Yes I know. And I really try not to be paranoid and listen to scaremongering stories but when I find out that the guards don't issue statements officially and it is the chinese whispers I should be listening to it just freaks me out.

Like a letter from the schools is great. But if I don't get this what do I do/who do I listen to/what do I rely on???

amdublin

smelltheglove wrote: »

Does it take for a child to be actually snatched before people will listen and think, oh maybe I should warn others to watch out for their kids???

Does it take for a child to be actually snatched before the guards will say, oh maybe we should have warned through multiple channels not just schools???

Nevyn

amdublin wrote: »

Yes I know. And I really try not to be paranoid and listen to scaremongering stories but when I find out that the guards don't issue statements officially and it is the chinese whispers I should be listening to it just freaks me out.

Like a letter from the schools is great. But if I don't get this what do I do/who do I listen to/what do I rely on???

Then you go to the local garda station and ask there.

Diddler1977

It's fine to take heed of warnings that you have heard on the parental telegraph but all I am looking for aswell is verification from an official source - i.e I want to know that the rumours are true.

Look at the D15 forum - rumours were abounding that a woman had been raped in a certain area.....this was not true - Gardai were actually searching for a murder weapon - imagine how many women were on alert to the possibility of a rapist being in their midst.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055921658

I just want information from verifiable official sources - is this too much to ask? This proves to me that there is a definite need to be extra vigilant.

amdublin

Thaedydal wrote: »

Then you go to the local garda station and ask there.

I was thinking of this exactly!

I'm going to sleep on this. I've had a rough day and think a lot of emotions are getting on me. Will think about this more tomorrow.

Nevyn

Look children under the age of going to school should never be left unsupervised, those who are older and may be out to play on the road or going to the local shop thier parents will get the letters from the school when the school is alerted by the local garda.

It is a way of communicating directly to parents with out having to use the media and alert those who are doing this that the garda are on to them but it alerts parents and kids to be watchful so that there will be possible witnesses and descriptions for the garda to work from.

smelltheglove

Thaedydal wrote: »

Look children under the age of going to school should never be left unsupervised, those who are older and may be out to play on the road or going to the local shop thier parents will get the letters from the school when the school is alerted by the local garda.

It is a way of communicating directly to parents with out having to use the media and alert those who are doing this that the garda are on to them but it alerts parents and kids to be watchful so that there will be possible witnesses and descriptions for the garda to work from.

very true, it is disappointing that schools do not interact with each other and let them know what has been reported to them but I guess the principals assume the parents will spread the word for them. I always let my neighbours know of anything I hear of, like when I got a letter from the playschool I told neighbours and my daughters school, these neighbours reported the incidents to their childrens schools also to make sure everyone was on watch out, its a community thing really, look out for each other. Mind, not once until this thread have I heard any ask for garda confirmation to convince them to watch over the kids, I'm not saying you guys wouldnt anyway but if there is the slightest bit of chance at all would you not say 'yes Ill be more vigilant?

The Gardai will have their reasons for not reporting to media and I am sure they would be very valid reasons, after all they are the only ones qualified to do their jobs and experienced enough to know what works and what doesnt so we have to trust them. I doubt any owuld be sitting in their offices saying they couldnt be bothered telling the media, sure it would come out when the predator is successful.

Nevyn

Reporting to the media is done outside of term time.

miss5

My cousin heard about abduction attempts in Kildare, Every effort should be made
to find the culprits, It's very worrying in these times, It sounds very sinister.
Parents have to be more viligant and cautious than ever before. Hopefully schools
and the gardai have something planned to ensure maximum protection for children
at risk.

Deliverance

smelltheglove wrote: »

very true, it is disappointing that schools do not interact with each other and let them know what has been reported to them but I guess the principals assume the parents will spread the word for them. I always let my neighbours know of anything I hear of, like when I got a letter from the playschool I told neighbours and my daughters school, these neighbours reported the incidents to their childrens schools also to make sure everyone was on watch out, its a community thing really, look out for each other. Mind, not once until this thread have I heard any ask for garda confirmation to convince them to watch over the kids, I'm not saying you guys wouldnt anyway but if there is the slightest bit of chance at all would you not say 'yes Ill be more vigilant?

The Gardai will have their reasons for not reporting to media and I am sure they would be very valid reasons, after all they are the only ones qualified to do their jobs and experienced enough to know what works and what doesnt so we have to trust them. I doubt any owuld be sitting in their offices saying they couldnt be bothered telling the media, sure it would come out when the predator is successful.

Well said SmelltheGlove, it is in my opinion as well 'community thing'. It is not a scaremongering excerise at all as proposed by others. If parents want to discuss and share, then that should be highlighted in communities from parents who are on the frontline.

This should be respected and looked at in this new information society that exists. If anything this new type of information should assist the gaurdai in their investigations.

Trust should be put back into the community really. The garda at the end of the day in my opinion should be looking more towards working with the community on these issues directly rather than being afraid of what the media thinks.

smelltheglove

I have just received more info on this, my brother and his wife live in Ratoath. Last night a neighbour looked out her window to see an eastern european man with her son, now as I have heard it I will repeat, the man had started to kick around a ball with the boy, he then told the boy come on and well get ice cream, a vw passat was sitting in front of the ice cream van with a woman in it. The mother came out to get the son and the man ran to the car and sped off. Apparently Gardai are investigating, with shock the nmother didnt get the reg number. She then went to report to the school this morning and was told NOT to notify other parents as no real abduction attempt had been made since he had not laid his hands on the child.

The way I see it, its better that he didnt get his hands on the child but other parents should still be aware. As far as I recall, I was told the car was white.

dynamick

every piece of the jigsaw is helpful. You just can't be too careful