Church demands €2m fees from primary schools

storm2811

CATHOLIC primary schools are furious after being hit with a new €2m-per-year demand for money from the church.
Cash-strapped principals say that, instead of the church subsidising them, they are now being asked to subsidise the church.
The new request for cash has come from the Catholic Primary School Management Association (CPSMA), the Irish Independent has learned.
The body offers a management support service to almost 3,000 primary schools run by the Catholic Church.
The CPSMA has advised schools of a new annual membership fee, which they are expected to pay by the end of the month for the current school year.
The move comes at a time when the Catholic Church itself is under considerable financial pressure, attracting smaller congregations.
It is facing substantial payouts to abuse victims, particularly in the wake of the Ryan Report into clerical sex abuse which was published a year ago this week.
But the CPSMA's demand for money has sparked outrage among school communities, who are furious at the scale of the fees, and the lack of consultation.
Schools are already struggling to make ends meet in the face of education cutbacks -- and will now pay up to €4.75 per pupil to the church every year. They already have to fundraise and seek contributions from parents to top up state funding.

There are 3,200 primary schools in Ireland and 92pc are run by the Catholic Church, with the remainder Protestant or non-denominational.
The CPSMA has recently recruited two extra staff and has 22,000 volunteers on boards of management.
The new fees amount to €325 for a school with 100 pupils or fewer, €475 for a school with 101 to 250 pupils, €675 for a 251-400 pupil school, and €875 for those with 401 pupils or more.
Based on that scale of fees, the annual value of the combined contribution from the Catholic primary schools would be in excess of €2m.
The CPSMA said its services to schools have been greatly expanded and that it now relies on membership fees from boards of management to defray the costs of providing those services.


One principal last night said that the new request for money was "a very heavy-handed top-down request for money from the church. Up to a number of years ago, the church paid money into schools, now they want schools to pay the church."
Another principal said: "We cannot afford to take a financial hit like this. No money has ever gone out of my board of management to the CPSMA, nor am I aware of many other schools where that is the case, and now I am being asked for €675."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/church-demands-euro2m-fees-from-national-schools-2186608.html

Now the kids have to pay for the church's mistakes?:eek:
If you have kids in primary school,would you pay those fees?

Menengroth™

bastards.

Take your kids out of these schools and either home school them or place them in public education.

It's times like this that I'm ashamed to be a Catholic.

omega666

storm2811 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/church-demands-euro2m-fees-from-national-schools-2186608.html

Now the kids have to pay for the church's mistakes?:eek:
If you have kids in primary school,would you pay those fees?

its 2 or 3 euro per child, hardly a huge amount.
i pay more for my car tax per year than what they're looking from a 100 pupil school.

Hank_Jones

It's times like this that I'm proud to be an atheist.

bonerm

brokenlaptop wrote: »

It's times like this that I'm ashamed to be a Catholic.

I'm ashamed too ................................................ that you're a Catholic, I mean.

mathie

omega666 wrote: »

its 2 or 3 euro per child, hardly a huge amount.
i pay more for my car tax per year than what they're looking from a 100 pupil school.

Yes I agree 2 or 3 euro per child is hardly a huge amount for us to pay.
I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Yours,
The Dodgy Priest.

The_Minister

omega666 wrote: »

its 2 or 3 euro per child, hardly a huge amount.
i pay more for my car tax per year than what they're looking from a 100 pupil school.

There are a million children in primary school in Ireland?

Our population is less than 5 million.

Winty

All schools should now be under state control, its not the 1950's

NothingMan

Hopefully this can be a step in the right direction. Schools don't pay the membership fee's, thus disassociating themselves from the CPSMA and the Catholic Church. Stick to the state set cirriculum and become the secular state we're suppose to be.

Run_to_da_hills

The Catholic Church is horrible

kodute

Its only right that all children should subsidise the legal fees for perpetrators of child abuse.... :eek:

They have some balls, thats for sure.

Seaneh

NothingMan wrote: »

Hopefully this can be a step in the right direction. Schools don't pay the membership fee's, thus disassociating themselves from the CPSMA and the Catholic Church. Stick to the state set cirriculum and becomethe secular state we're suppose to be.

Problem.
these schools are on land owned by the Church and were built by the church.

Say what you want about the catholic church but without them this country wouldn't have any education system, they filled a void that the state should have 80 years ago in both education and healthcare. The state should provide these services but they don't and there is no sign of them doing so.

storm2811

I know the fee isn't a lot but it's just the fact that they're expecting people to pay for their mistakes.

Anyway,I know for a fact that my local church gets nearly 2 grand every week from collections!

Twin-go

Catholic Church - first they abuse the kids now they are going to rob their lunch money? Pr1cks.

Banned Account

kodute wrote: »

Its only right that all children should subsidise the legal fees for perpetrators of child abuse.... :eek:

They have some balls, thats for sure.

Actually, not all child abusers have some balls - though most of the ones in the Church did for sure.

As an aside, is this what that Bishop in Longford was getting at when he was caught using emotional blackmail on the children to use their communion money to by a statue or the baby jebus will cry?

Hells Belle

brokenlaptop wrote: »

Take your kids out of these schools and either home school them or place them in public education.

It's times like this that I'm ashamed to be a Catholic.

The problem with this is that there are no non denomination schools where I am, there is 1 Educate Together which is next to impossible to get into. All the primary schools in my area are catholic. My son had to sit in a room with 1 other child colouring while the rest of the class spent their days organising their communion, its disgusting tbh. The schools should tell the church to fook off - I most certainly will not be paying it no matter how little it is. The cheek of them.

Elevator

haven't a notion of paying

goose2005

Seaneh wrote: »

Problem.
these schools are on land owned by the Church and were built by the church.

Say what you want about the catholic church but without them this country wouldn't have any education system, they filled a void that the state should have 80 years ago in both education and healthcare. The state should provide these services but they don't and there is no sign of them doing so.

National schools were established in 1832 and the RCC opposed the idea of multidenominational state schools (as they feared the Established church would dominate). Moreover, when "the church" buy something, it really means that they collect money from parishioners and spend it on something.

General Zod

Just a question, what do they intend to do with the money raised from this?

Winty

General Zod wrote: »

Just a question, what do they intend to do with the money raised from this?

Legal fee's I guess

seamus

Seaneh wrote: »

Problem.
these schools are on land owned by the Church and were built by the church

Yes, but the church isn't going to throw the schools off their land. For a start, it would be the end of them as an insitution in Ireland:
1. Every parent of children in these schools would boycott the church
2. They would no longer have a means of indoctrinating new sheep into their nonsense

If the schools simply don't pay this, there's pretty much nothing the church can do about it without collapsing their own institution.

The RCC is sitting on hundreds of billions of euros worth of assets in Rome. Why are they asking Irish people for handouts?

Feeona

It really is no different from schools holding fund raisers to get a new classroom built, or the government taking from education to pay for bankers mistakes. The school year practically revolves around fund raisers organised to pay for basic things the government should be paying for.

The Catholic Church is no worse than the government and yes there are probably paedophiles in the government too, they're present in all sectors of society, not just the church. There's a 'don't want to get involved' mentality in every sector of society too which unfortunately provides the perfect cover for those sick members who are more concerned about getting their jollies than letting a child have a decent start in life

Sanjuro

Simple answer to this. Take the schools away from the church. They cant have their kids and eat them.

Run_to_da_hills

Kids should start charging for alterboy services, €50 a pop,

Their 2 million would not be long adding up.

Feeona

Seaneh wrote: »

Say what you want about the catholic church but without them this country wouldn't have any education system, they filled a void that the state should have 80 years ago in both education and healthcare. The state should provide these services but they don't and there is no sign of them doing so.

There was an education system before the National School system was set up in 1831/1832. There were charter, diocesan, royal, and parish schools, education societies. Most were hell bent on spreading their own word though, whether it was Protestant or Presbyterian which didn't go down too well with the Catholic majority as you'd imagine!
I don't think it matters who's in charge. Replace the Catholic Church with another organisation, and you'll end up getting the same cr*p. Four legs good, two legs bad!

prinz

General Zod wrote: »

Just a question, what do they intend to do with the money raised from this?

Good question, the answer to which would present a much better picture of the situation.

Dont be at yourself

It really is no different from schools holding fund raisers to get a new classroom built, or the government taking from education to pay for bankers mistakes. The school year practically revolves around fund raisers organised to pay for basic things the government should be paying for.

Well, it's a bit different. In those cases, it's raising money to benefit the school. In this case, it's going to line the coffers of the Church.

Biggins

Yet again the rome org puts the boot in.

prinz

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

In this case, it's going to line the coffers of the Church.

Any backup to show where the money is actually going to be going?

Feeona

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Well, it's a bit different. In those cases, it's raising money to benefit the school. In this case, it's going to line the coffers of the Church.

The CPSMA helps organise the school Board of Management. Without a Board of Management, a school would be up sh*t creek without a paddle legal wise

And it's no different from the government taking from education to pay for mistakes they've made

General Zod

if the organisation that is asking for these fees is starting to charge for their services when they haven't previously, the schools should just refuse to pay.

I don't think these fees are being raised to pay for the Churches legal fees, more likely the church doesn't want to subsidise these services any more.

General Zod

Feeona wrote: »

The CPSMA helps organise the school Board of Management. Without a Board of Management, a school would be up sh*t creek without a paddle legal wise

And it's no different from the government taking from education to pay for mistakes they've made

Schools can organise a board of management without aid from the CPSMA.

Biggins

General Zod wrote: »

Schools can organise a board of management without aid from the CPSMA.

Yep, the "Educate Together" school managements are doing just fine and money that I have donated to them I know reassuringly is actually going direct to the school, the teachers and pupils in heat and materials, etc.

Feeona

General Zod wrote: »

Schools can organise a board of management without aid from the CPSMA.

True but if a school accepts the help from the church why not pay for it?

It doesn't matter what organisation you're dealing with, there's always going to be red tape. Saying that this fee is there to pay for the church's mistakes is sensationalist journalism at its worst

Biggins

Feeona wrote: »

True but if a school accepts the help from the church why not pay for it?

It doesn't matter what organisation you're dealing with, there's always going to be red tape. Saying that this fee is there to pay for the church's mistakes is sensationalist journalism at its worst

I agree with your point BUT why throw up this sudden charge now!
Amazing coincidence when you take into account that any costs involved with the schools previously, had been assessed and charged already accordingly to the relevant area!

If my son/daughter was going to a place that was out of the blue coming up with this additional charge, I'd want to know what the fcuk it was for and let me see the visible items NEW that my money is being spent on.

Fcuk the church, they should now fcuk right off out of the country!
We have moved on (well some of us have) and we are doing damn fine, thank you very much Mr two faced pope!

General Zod

Feeona wrote: »

True but if a school accepts the help from the church why not pay for it?

It doesn't matter what organisation you're dealing with, there's always going to be red tape. Saying that this fee is there to pay for the church's mistakes is sensationalist journalism at its worst

But the church are the ones who created this board to assist the schools, and implemented it's involvement in the schools. Did the schools ask for this to be set up, or ask for the aid of the CPSMA in running it's BoM?

Having had a read of the CPSMA's site, it doesn't appear to be doing anything that absolutely has to be provided by the Church. the government should be providing the necessary support structure.

Here's a question, is there already a government structure that would provide similar services?

prinz

Biggins wrote: »

I agree with your point BUT why throw up this sudden charge now!

Probably to do with the rising costs associated with Boards of Management in the age of litigation etc. My mother was a long time on a board of management for our local primary school as a volunteer. When it got to the stage a couple of years ago that she was advised to retain the services of a personal solicitor at her own cost to protect her she quit.

Feeona

Biggins wrote: »

I agree with your point BUT why throw up this sudden charge now!
Amazing coincidence when you take into account that any costs involved with the schools previously, had been assessed and charged already accordingly to the relevant area!

If my son/daughter was going to a place that was out of the blue coming up with this additional charge, I'd want to know what the fcuk it was for and let me see the visible items NEW that my money is being spent on.

Yeah I agree. I give Quinn grief when they hike their prices by a hundred euro every year!

It could be just an amazing coincidence, I think it's better to reserve judgement until it's actually been proven though. It's soul destroying and horrible enough to know that there are paedophiles in the church (and that paedophiles exist, full stop) without the added belief the whole organisation is rotten to the core:(

EDIT: BREASTS!

ejmaztec

prinz wrote: »

Any backup to show where the money is actually going to be going?

They're buying that wanker Cardinal Brady a new frock.

Misty Chaos

What the hell is this, indulgences all over again!? :mad:

Can't wait to hear what Bullsh!t reason tthey give kids why they are charging this new fee.

brianthebard

Just nationalise the schools and get the Church out.

ScumLord

I have no problem with the church asking for the money, it says they own 92 percent of the schools in Ireland (shocking) so I guess they can charge what they like really.


I'm surprised they have, it's terrible timing. I really don't know what goes through the churches top brass minds, this kind of thing is only going to hurt them. If they cared about the future of the church they'd at least spend a bit of the billions they've got lying around to keep some form of a strangle hold on the school system because it's probably the only interaction they'll get to have with the young people of Ireland.