Sligo Mayo Greenway Is it possible

westtip

A new greenway (dedicated walking and cycling track) has opened on the old Newport to Mulranny railway line - its 17.k long and is already proving a great success at bringing more visitors to the Westport/Newport area - there are plans to extend it from Newport to Westport and from Mulranny to Achill island - it follows the route of the very old Westport Achill railway line.

The Claremorris/Collooney railway line is lying redundant and unused and is in the foreseeable future unlikely to see a train run on it for many years despite a vigorous campaign to re-open it. This is known as the northern section of the ~Western Rail Corridor (WRC) from Sligo to Limerick. The Government has only committed to re-opening the WRC from Athenry to Claremorris and that may not actually happen in current economic times.

Eamon O'Cuiv at a conference in claremorris in May 09 about the WRC suggested the Claremorris/Collooney line should for the time being at least be converted to a greenway.

Note a similar thread has been set up in the Mayo forum but people may not visit both sligo and mayo forums.


What do folks in Sligo think of this idea. A website has been set up to debate this issue www.sligomayogreenway.com if you want to know more click on that website and post views here and email the website.

Apanachi

I think it's a great idea, I know loads of people over here in Germany who would love to cycle around Ireland, but they are scared to do so due to narrow bendy roads with now cycling path, there shoul be so much more of these in Ireland

Over here cycling anywhere not such a big deal because of the vast amount of such greenways.

magnumlady

I think it's a really good idea too. Not sure about the roads that have been built over the railway though and how that will affect it.

westtip

The Roads built over the railway and general encroachment on the whole line - will be a nightmare to sort out if they ever re-open the railway - which BTW I don't think of any of us really expect to ever happen - the greenway would however protect the alignment and ownership of the right of way please visit www.sligomayogreenway.com if you want to check out the idea further.

The Greenway would really open up cycling tourism in both Sligo and Mayo - and we need all the help we can get to attract tourists these days.

magnumlady

I don't think the railway will ever re-open either, but I'd like to see something happen with the track. It would make a lovely walk/cycle.....but would the amount of money needed to get it up and running be available?....and you would need an awful lot of tourists to substantiate it.
I also think it could be used by schools etc. A nice safe place to walk/cycle (in the parts where there isn't a road).

westtip

magnumlady wrote: »

I don't think the railway will ever re-open either, but I'd like to see something happen with the track. It would make a lovely walk/cycle.....but would the amount of money needed to get it up and running be available?....and you would need an awful lot of tourists to substantiate it.
I also think it could be used by schools etc. A nice safe place to walk/cycle (in the parts where there isn't a road).

magnumlady. the mulranny newport greenway cost about 100k per km, on a pro-rata basis the line from Colooney - Claremorris would cost about 7 million- yes times are tough but Failte Ireland are seeking to develop an entire infrastructure of cycle ways in ireland- we have lost so many cycling and walking tourists and the DOT has a cycling policy to develop a cycle network. As for the railway the cost could be as much as 6 million per mile - and the money needed to subvent the line as it would be so lightly used would be an ongoing drain on resources - anyway it won't happen, the dogs on the street know that much. The economics of greenways have been well documented they do attract tourists and they are heavily used by locals - not an insignificant fact - kids can't cycle on our country roads now - so just think of the local linkages this greenway could bring for teenagers on bikes etc. Not to mention the potential for cycling to work and school. The idea behind the sligo mayo greenway is also to connect to other greenways so we have a network around the west of ireland - just think what that woudl do for tourism.

To answer your questions - I reckon the payback on tourism in the area for 7 million would be less than 3 years, in terms of health payback - with people using the route and getting out because they have a safe route - you just can't measure that - but you can measure the potential savings in pedestrian safety, there are figures available - not got them to hand - on the cost of say a pedestrian or cyclist death or injury - in terms of cost of healthcare loss of earnings and future cost in benefits to an injured person can actually be quantified. There must be stats of pedestrian and cycling related accidents on for example the N17, this greenway would effectively take cyclists and pedestrians off the N17 - and their safety can actually be quantified.

Here is some information from Garda S. http://www.irishdigest.com/?p=6006&cpage=1#comment-3044

To date in 2010, one-third of those who lost their lives on Irish roads have been pedestrians (18 in total). Several of these deaths have occurred during the hours of darkness and on rural roads. An Garda Síochána is urging pedestrians to ensure that they are visible to motorists, in particular when walking at night or on roads in rural areas.).

magnumlady

Thanks for all the information, I do think it's a good idea in principal but not sure about funding. Also good idea about cycling/walking to work, school....but would people actually do it? It's all to easy to get in a car.

6 million a mile for the railway?? That extortinate.

westtip

magnumlady wrote: »

Thanks for all the information, I do think it's a good idea in principal but not sure about funding. Also good idea about cycling/walking to work, school....but would people actually do it? It's all to easy to get in a car.

6 million a mile for the railway?? That extortinate.

The Ennis - Athenry section was about 3 million a mile, the reason this northern section is so expensive can be explained by the findings of the McCann Report of 2005 which investigated this whole Western Rail Corridor potential.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/6645-0.pdf

An extract of that report explains the situation:

there are two main reasons why the cost of the Claremorris-Collooney section is very high. Firstly, when it was built in 1891-1892 the section was constructed as a light railway. If it were to be brought into the IE network the formation would have to be rebuilt to the national heavy rail standard. The second relates to the cost of necessary alterations to level crossings, of which there are a total of 290 along the section, two of which alone would cost €24m to create grade separations.

This of course will be the MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCK to any plans to open the line. The 7 million spend on a greenway will open up areas for activity tourism that quite simply never get tourists passing through.

westtip

If anyone has any decent photos of the line from Claremorris - Collooney coudl they post them up please?

magnumlady

There are a few photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=75189118@N00&q=western+&m=text

westtip

magnum thanks for sight of those shots, I love tht one appraoching the bridge whereabouts on the line was that one taken? - I was out on the Newport Mulranny greenway today with the bike - Quite a few peopled using it, everyone spoke to thinks its a real hit for the area - I reckon the Sligo/mayo greenway could become a real driver for tourism in the East Sligo/mayo area so anyone interested please look at the websit e www.sligomayogreenway.com and see if you can support the idea.

magnumlady

There's two with bridges, one taken in Coolaney.
The other one with the rocks taken in Tubbercurry.
I took some more today in Kiltimagh. I will upload them when I get a chance.

westtip

I've not walked that part of the line - they really show the potential of this greenway; Do you know anyone else interested in this idea? I was thinking of organising a group to walk the sligo mayo greenway over a weekend to photograph the whole route and get some interest generated in the idea. Did you know there are 290 railway crossings on this part of the Western Rail Corridor and that a report in 2005 which looked at this whole thing identified this part of the WRC as the least likely to open - as the line which was built in the early 1890s as a light railway it would cost twice as much to re-engineer back to 21st century requirements ; and the number of railway crossings would make it double the price of the re-opening costs of say the stretch of line recently re-opened from Ennis to Athenry? - As mentioned above the whole route from Claremorris to Collooney could be made a greenway for about 7 million euro, seeing your pics makes me think just how appealing this would be as a tourirst attraction not to mention how much it would be used by locals, can you imagine families gettting out for the day to walk or cycle this greenway in peace and quiet and safely away from traffic? I look forward to seeing your stuff around Kiltimagn

westtip

I was walking this line at the weekend from Tubbercurry to Charlestown - sorry no pics I left my camera at home. Can't believe this line will ever re-open as a railway judging by the number of level of crossings, state of public finances etc - and at the Charlestown station end the garage seems to have expanded over the years and will be far too close to any rail line. Had to walk it rather than cycle it but it would have made a great bike ride. Spoke to a few people about it recently everyone seems very positive about it - so check out the website:

www.sligomayogreenway.com

westtip

Paper published byt he NRA last week shows this one might be a runner, the line is featured in a few of the maps - and it may be entering the fray for Greenway treatment - the Government decision to long finger the restoration of the railway line from Athenry to Tuam/Claremorris makes this stretch of old railline (Claremorris/Collooney) even less likely to be converted back to railway (and lets face it this woudl be way down the transport priority lists in any event) - Greenway is probably the only option for this line now - but if you are interested in this whole idea of greenways - then take a look at the .pdf at this link:

http://www.smartertravel.ie/download/1/FINAL%20NCNScopingStudyAugust2010.pdf

It was covered in the national press last week, its encouraging news.

keithcan

Is adapting the railway line (Sligo section of WRC) in the new cyclying network or not? Surely this could be verified by the Department of transport or the NRA... I'd be surprised if it is included. Why would one branch of the Department (dealing with cycling issues) propose a plan to adapt the railway line (and perhaps abandon hope of the western rail corrridor coming there) when another branch (dealing with railways) maintains the WRC as an intended development? A key point here is that you've talked about developing the cycleway for €7m. There is no hope whatsoever in the current economic climate of that happening. There are a number of disused railway lines around the country, presumably all with the potential to follow the excellent example of the Mayo greenway. If I was minister for transport, I'd be looking at the cheaper projects, where the railway is disused permanently. All of this is a pity cos the Mayo greenway is great and one for Sligo could be too, but it's unrealistic at this point. Is there no consideration of a cycleway parallel to the railway (WRC), so that it's not a case of one or the other?

il gatto

The general north west area missed a trick by not upgrading the tow path of the Shannon Erne canal when it was redeveloped not many years ago. It would've added very little costwise at the time with all the machinary and labour in place. They didn't, they now won't and many miles of greenway is denied to the north west.
Short sighted, tight fisted government is a given here. With the recession, it's even less likely to happen with the old railway.
It's a pity that success stories elsewhere never seems to provide even a spark of inspiration to these people. Maybe try and develop the world's longest, narrowest private hospital on the track. Bound to get government approval and gives the north west a shot at the Guinness Book of Records to boot.

westtip

Il Gatto thanks for that one another example of the complete incompetence and lack of joined up thinking in out national and local government planning. They haven't got a clue.

westtip

keithcan wrote: »

Is adapting the railway line (Sligo section of WRC) in the new cyclying network or not? Surely this could be verified by the Department of transport or the NRA... I'd be surprised if it is included. Why would one branch of the Department (dealing with cycling issues) propose a plan to adapt the railway line (and perhaps abandon hope of the western rail corrridor coming there) when another branch (dealing with railways) maintains the WRC as an intended development? A key point here is that you've talked about developing the cycleway for €7m. There is no hope whatsoever in the current economic climate of that happening. There are a number of disused railway lines around the country, presumably all with the potential to follow the excellent example of the Mayo greenway. If I was minister for transport, I'd be looking at the cheaper projects, where the railway is disused permanently. All of this is a pity cos the Mayo greenway is great and one for Sligo could be too, but it's unrealistic at this point. Is there no consideration of a cycleway parallel to the railway (WRC), so that it's not a case of one or the other?

Keith, the route of the northern section of the WRC is identified as a potential greenway in the scoping study issued by the DOT last month. The National Cycle Network scoping study is just that - a scoping study - nothing is yet in tablets of stone. If as you think there is no hope of developing hte walkway for 7 million- why have Mayo COCO just confirmed they have received 3.5 million to complete either end of the Mulranny - Newport Greenway, From Mulranny to Achill and from Newport to Westport. The WRC north is disused permanently - if not used since the 1970s is permanent and if you look at he state of the line and the alignment now. However because the alignment has been fenced off and is stil in ownership of IE, the job will be cheaper as there will be no buy back land issues. Its actually no unrealistic to see these kind of projects go ahead - there is a committment to the National Cycle Network and the DOT have instructed Failte Ireland and other agencies to look at routeways that are already in public ownership to limit costs. 7 million for a 47 mile greenway project - is actually possible - it is a low impact low cost infrastructure project that will create jobs in the medium term and help the local economy it is exactly the kind of project that shoudl go ahead - The cost of building a new railway on the alignmen on the other hand .......Please look at the McCann report of 2005 to see why this will never happen, go to www.sligomayogreenway.com to find out more.

westtip

Keith, Here's the information about the extra cash (even in these hard times) for the Great Western Greenway - so why not for Sligo-Mayo greenway?

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=242

keithcan

Westtip, you've answered your own question, I'd have thought. If funding is now being provided for the Mayo Greenway, you ask why not for Sligo-Mayo greenway? As you say yourself, these are 'hard times'. If dept of Transport have managed to find the funding for the extension to the Newport-Mulranny Greenway, then I'd reckon there's just not going to be further funding to deliver for another greenway in the same general area. I'm sure it's not easy to accept that a good idea can be acted on in sth mayo and a similar idea can't be advanced for the northern section of the WRC, or any other similar situations, but that's the financial reality: the funding is simply not there. If you really wanted to dig into the funding aspect, why not ask dept of Transport what they have available for this type of action and how they're allocating it. If the answer is '€3.5m and it's going to the Mayo Greenway extension', then other proposals are going nowhere for now, certainly as far as the main state funder can deliver. A real pity but it's probably the reality.

westtip

keithcan wrote: »

Westtip, you've answered your own question, I'd have thought. If funding is now being provided for the Mayo Greenway, you ask why not for Sligo-Mayo greenway? As you say yourself, these are 'hard times'. If dept of Transport have managed to find the funding for the extension to the Newport-Mulranny Greenway, then I'd reckon there's just not going to be further funding to deliver for another greenway in the same general area. I'm sure it's not easy to accept that a good idea can be acted on in sth mayo and a similar idea can't be advanced for the northern section of the WRC, or any other similar situations, but that's the financial reality: the funding is simply not there. If you really wanted to dig into the funding aspect, why not ask dept of Transport what they have available for this type of action and how they're allocating it. If the answer is '€3.5m and it's going to the Mayo Greenway extension', then other proposals are going nowhere for now, certainly as far as the main state funder can deliver. A real pity but it's probably the reality.

Don't agree - cos the national cycle network is on the agenda - and projects like the sligo mayo greenway can be seen as part of this project. whats more it means they (Govt and all its agencies) can be seen to be doing somethign for very little cost - the cost to re-open railway will be astronomical - for this 47 mile stretch of line in excess of 200 million, and then there will be subventions to run it - It ain't going to happen. The cost of the greenway is actually affordable, will create jobs and the subvention to keep a path/cycleway open on an ongoing basis is virtually zero. so despite the current situation projects like these kind of greenways will actually be very affordable infrastructure projects - plus they are very visible projects bring immediate benefit and as they cost very little will be popular with politicians of all shades and sizes.

do have a look at this link I posted up before about the National Cycle Network - this is critical - it is an entire network that could be delivered for a very small sum of money in relative terms - the route of the potential Sligo Mayo Greenway is identified in the report

http://www.smartertravel.ie/download...August2010.pdf

Go to appendix on page 20 - Additional Maps - the route I am referring to is shown as a potential route for the national cycle network, these kind of things are still on the agenda as they will cost so little

Dunlaffin

Hi guys,

Just got back from Mularanney today to my home in Sligo. Friends had told me about this new Greenway from Mullaraney to Newport last night and I said I'll believe it when I see it. So today I went to see it. It has it's imperfection, most notable being the unceremonious abrupt end in Newport which would take a family of cyclers by surprise, finding themselves dumped out onto the road. But.... all in all, its the best bit of news I've seen coming out of this godforsaken hole in years.The guy renting the bikes behind the Mularanny Park Hotel said business was brisk with about 65 bikes rented out today. ! On a cold damp day...thats a fraking miracle. For a couple of million quid they built a priceless tourist amenity. On the way back I drove along various parts of the Sligo track to check it out. Its in good shape bar the weeds.
We need a Greenway here now now now ! Jobs, tourists and hope.

Thanks for the chance to have a say on this

westtip

Wow 65 bikes rented out in a day! and a miserable one at that! someon ought to let these gobsh*te politicians know what a success they have on their hands for such a small investment - the railway from Collooney to Claremorris will never happen - just think what the greenway could do for local tourism!

BTW my one criticsim of the mulranny track would be the same as you they need to make more of the start and finish and provide one or two access points with car parks along the route so families will use it more.

Dunlaffin

Getting the railway track installed on this section is now a pipe dream and is distracting from the very achievable goal of a Greenway track. I think most people would be convinced of this with little effort.

BTW, westtip, is this your website ?

http://www.sligomayogreenway.com/

westtip

yep - just there to open up the debate glad you found it. spread the word.

Dunlaffin

Hi westtip,

Its a great looking website, is your guestbook working , signed it a few days back but dont see the message up yet.:(
How long ago did you set it up ?

westtip

I haven't touched it for ages so I don't know it was working, but thinking of getting rid of that page anyway, its just one of those Go Daddy hosted 5 page sites. It needs a lot more work, but the the key thing is to get the message over.

Dunlaffin

Looks good to me, I have it linked to a Facebook Page I'm working on here :

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001773703036&v=wall

westtip

facebook page looks great - thanks for that I just haven't got time for all this at the moment. (I mean doing things like setting up the facebook page etd).

keithcan

Westtip, you say that “someone ought to let these gobsh*te politicians know what a success they have on their hands (with the Mayo greenway) for such a small investment”. Would these politicians that you deride be the same ones who were involved in the decision to fund the Mayo Greenway and who, if I recall correctly, cycled the track when it was opened (I think I recall Dempsey being there) ? I find your ideas good, but your lack of constructive balance is silly and unnecessary imo. I’ve suggested before that you check with D/transport how much is allocated for such developments and in reply you state that “the national cycle network is on the agenda” and that “the cost of the (Sligo) greenway is actually affordable”. My original suggestion still stands: why not ask them what is available for 2011 for the national cycle network and will converting the northern section of the WRC be part of any spend. This is a constructive suggestion to you and getting the answer, whatever it may be, would greatly inform this debate. Let’s park the issue of the railway development, let's even assume it’s unfeasible (as you have convincingly outlined) and that therefore, converting the WRC as a cycleway is not blocked by the WRC supporters. I still say that with the current disastrous national financial position, the Sligo greenway will not be do-able. D/transport may manage to get a small amount of cycle network done around the country, but Sligo will be down the list. You may disagree and, of course, we can always revist this point in a year’s time to see what transpired. But in the meantime, why oh why not just check out the budget provision for the national cycle network…???? It may be slightly more hassle than taking cheap swipes, but it'd be a damn sight more constructive and helpful to this debate.

westtip

keithcan wrote: »

Westtip, you say that “someone ought to let these gobsh*te politicians know what a success they have on their hands (with the Mayo greenway) for such a small investment”. Would these politicians that you deride be the same ones who were involved in the decision to fund the Mayo Greenway and who, if I recall correctly, cycled the track when it was opened (I think I recall Dempsey being there) ? I find your ideas good, but your lack of constructive balance is silly and unnecessary imo. I’ve suggested before that you check with D/transport how much is allocated for such developments and in reply you state that “the national cycle network is on the agenda” and that “the cost of the (Sligo) greenway is actually affordable”. My original suggestion still stands: why not ask them what is available for 2011 for the national cycle network and will converting the northern section of the WRC be part of any spend. This is a constructive suggestion to you and getting the answer, whatever it may be, would greatly inform this debate. Let’s park the issue of the railway development, let's even assume it’s unfeasible (as you have convincingly outlined) and that therefore, converting the WRC as a cycleway is not blocked by the WRC supporters. I still say that with the current disastrous national financial position, the Sligo greenway will not be do-able. D/transport may manage to get a small amount of cycle network done around the country, but Sligo will be down the list. You may disagree and, of course, we can always revist this point in a year’s time to see what transpired. But in the meantime, why oh why not just check out the budget provision for the national cycle network…???? It may be slightly more hassle than taking cheap swipes, but it'd be a damn sight more constructive and helpful to this debate.

you have made some good points and at times I do shoot from the hip on these issues. I have made plenty of representation to both national and local politicians on this matter. DOT does have funds available (or at least did) for the National Cycle Network, I don't share the issue about Sligo being down the list - the spend on the NCN and parts thereof will depend on case by case based on local authorities making a pitch for the funds that are available - Mayo Coco have been very good at this Sligo need a wake up call.

The last letter I got from Dempsey on the matter was that - any changes to the overall plan to re-open the WRC and preserve the line from Claremorris to Collooney would have to come from the respective county councils; he effectively reneged on making a decison - but no surprises there - In the soon to be published and debated five year County development plan - I am hopeful Sligo Coco will adopt the policy of aiming to turn Collooney to county border into a greenway - support for the idea in Mayo to make a greenway from Claremorris to County border is moving forward with several councillors on board. If both Sligo and Mayo Coco adopt this idea as policy the money may well be available, from the central pot - that does exist for the National Cycle Network, I have not established how much and TBH everything will be on hold until the General election - despite all the trauma some capital projects will still have to happen - and the case for these cycleways to help tourism economics in the west may swing the arguments. They are good quality projects in terms of local employment and the facilities they create, they are highly visible projects - which is good for politicians they effect everyday lives (again good for politicians), and they are not that expensive - The entire national cycle networks project could be delivered for a paltry sum compared to some projects and be of benefit to so many citizens it would be great value.

I have also been in touch with Enda about the idea - and he has been very positive - as has jimmy Deenihan (shadow tourism minister). When I talked about Gobsh*te politicians I was in the main referring to Noel Dempsey - who has skirted around the issue of the northern WRC claremorris/Collooney section for over three years -

So despite ranting and raving on this thread as well as others on this subject I have in fact been in dialogue with several political representatives soon to be ministers and I hope - the soon to be Taoiseach about this subject - and apart from the current Minister of Transport - soon to be history - have actually met with quite a positive response, but as said at the mo I cannot get hold of the exact figure the DOT has in mind for the NCN and TBH I don't think it will be available until after the political dust has settled.

Dunlaffin

keithcan wrote: »

Let’s park the issue of the railway development, let's even assume it’s unfeasible (as you have convincingly outlined) and that therefore, converting the WRC as a cycleway is not blocked by the WRC supporters. I still say that with the current disastrous national financial position, the Sligo greenway will not be do-able.

Theres nothing to assume, thees not going to be a railway built there now, it's totally unfeasible and what is commonly called in fishing circles, a red herring. However, these type of Greenway projects are super Low-budget stuff. Reason being........90% of it is already there. Take a walk along the Great Western Greenway and look at the fabulous cut stone bridges that have lain in hiding for decades. If these bridges and culverts had to be built then this would be a pipe dream, but they dont, and that's the beauty of this idea.
The next section of the Achill - Mulraney Greenway is going to be opened soon. Judging by the photos this is going to be a national gem. Check it out.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Great-Western-Greenway-Newport-Mulranny-Cycling-Walking-Trail/118718021509032

Cost : Chump Change. Value : Priceless !

westtip

Dunlaffin wrote: »

Theres nothing to assume, thees not going to be a railway built there now, it's totally unfeasible and what is commonly called in fishing circles, a red herring. However, these type of Greenway projects are super Low-budget stuff. Reason being........90% of it is already there. Take a walk along the Great Western Greenway and look at the fabulous cut stone bridges that have lain in hiding for decades. If these bridges and culverts had to be built then this would be a pipe dream, but they dont, and that's the beauty of this idea.
The next section of the Achill - Mulraney Greenway is going to be opened soon. Judging by the photos this is going to be a national gem. Check it out.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Great-Western-Greenway-Newport-Mulranny-Cycling-Walking-Trail/118718021509032

Cost : Chump Change. Value : Priceless !

DL thanks for that input - and very valid point about just how little these greenways cost when placed along the routes of old rail lines - the point you make about the culverts and bridge infrastructure on the Achill-Mulranny-Newport greenway is very good, and the same of course applies to the Sligo-Mayo Greenway route. I passionately believe in this idea as being a good one for the west of Ireland - If a route greenway route from Claremorris to Newport could be connected to the Claremorris/Collooney route just think what that would do for activity tourism, You are right the Railway is not going to happen - however the caveat is - if in some distant future we really do need to rebuild the railway then the route is protected for ever in public ownership if it NEEDS to be done. The Great Western Greenway has been done apparently for 100k per kilometre - the Sligo Mayo Greenway from Claremorris to Collooney is just over 70 km = 7 million to convert the line to greenway - Activity Tourism is the future of tourism in the west of Ireland - and cycling and walking are two key areas for development. For 7 million the payback on this investment would be very immediate.

westtip

keithcan wrote: »

WI’ve suggested before that you check with D/transport how much is allocated for such developments and in reply you state that “the national cycle network is on the agenda” and that “the cost of the (Sligo) greenway is actually affordable”. My original suggestion still stands: why not ask them what is available for 2011 for the national cycle network and will converting the northern section of the WRC be part of any spend. This is a constructive suggestion to you and getting the answer, whatever it may be, would greatly inform this debate. Let’s park the issue of the railway development, let's even assume it’s unfeasible (as you have convincingly outlined) and that therefore, converting the WRC as a cycleway is not blocked by the WRC supporters. I still say that with the current disastrous national financial position, the Sligo greenway will not be do-able. D/transport may manage to get a small amount of cycle network done around the country, but Sligo will be down the list. You may disagree and, of course, we can always revist this point in a year’s time to see what transpired. But in the meantime, why oh why not just check out the budget provision for the national cycle network…???? It may be slightly more hassle than taking cheap swipes, but it'd be a damn sight more constructive and helpful to this debate.

Keithcan - I am trying t0 get an answer to your question about exact amounts available for the NCN. However I am actually encouraged by this exstract on page 49 of the National Recovery Plan, the emboldment is mine.

My point is this, Sligo and Mayo CoCo need to make a strong case for this linkage (Sligo-Mayo Greenway) to fight for the funds that will be available - they will be scarces but the NCN comes under the umbrella of improving cycling infrastructure, adn the authorities have seent the direct effects of the NewportMulranny project

.

turn to growth in tourism numbers is dependent on a recovery in external markets. But measures to improve the quality and diversity of the tourism product and our competitiveness will position the sector to take advantage of that recovery. Capital funding for the tourism sector will be focussed on completing the upgrade of major tourist attractions, developing a small number of key iconic attractions, improving infrastructure for recreational cycling, walking and water based activities and heritage attractions..

http://www.budget.gov.ie/The%20National%20Recovery%20Plan%202011-2014.pdf

keithcan

Westtip, Fair play looking to clarify this. Can I suggest that when the budget is announced next week, there'll be clarification available within a short time of that. Not many people seem to be aware of this, but each Department's budget is publicly available - this is the link to the 2010 one for all the government Departments - http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/public%20expenditure/2010/REV2010.pdf and D/transport is there at no.32. I'd suspect the National Cycle Network is covered by the C1 or C2 subheads (possibly C1.5 or C2.1). When the 2011 Budget document is made available (probably on D/finance website) some time after the budget announcement, it'd be possible to see what allocations are there for these activities and specific questions to D/transport may also prompt specific info ('what is available in 2011 for NCN actions?' and 'what subhead is it covered by?').
You are correct that the two Councils are key to driving any such proposal. I'm afraid I'm still a sceptic not for reasons of merit of the proposal, but more down to the reality of the obstacles that need to be overcome to advance a project of this nature. Should all these obstacles be brushed aside? probably yes. If all local parties (mostly the Councils but probably others too) could throw their weight behind this, could it gain some traction? maybe yes. But the reality still is that there'll be way less money in 2011 for reasons taht are obvious to all. And importantly, there'll be any amount of competing priorities for this small pot, other regions, other projects, etc. Another reality: Mayo Co Co has done a good job on the Mulranny-Newport Greenway and they're starting with Phase 2. IMO, they will not have the capacity to focus simultaneously on another Greenway project.

In terms of cost, I'd suggest that based on the Mulranny Greenway, a more accurate cost is over €120,000 per Km, 20% more than your figure. So 70km from Claremorris to Collooney is €8.5m approx. Of course costs for Claremorris-Collooney could be less per Km than the Achill one, depending on the ground conditions, etc., but also could be a lot more. I completely agree with you that activity tourism is the future for tourism for the west of Ireland, with cycling/walking being key. And I admire your passion to this project. I just think it's not a straightforward matter of a politician deciding to do it; the cost is a real real issue and it's not all about useless politicians etc. I personally wish they would consider how moderate investment in the activity tourism area can reap rewards, and for example, there have been good developments on the walking trails scene in last few years from what I've seen, which I think was mostly down to O Cuiv. Finally, if there isn't enough negativity in what I've already said, have another look at the National Recovery Plan, specifically page 118, where it's announced that there's to be reduced funding for rural recreation. This is where an amount of the "infrastructure for recreational cycling (and) walking" gets funded, and it's cut for 2011. Is that logical? of course not, but there it is. Anyway, I'm throwing the curve balls at you but you're taking good swipes at them, so keep it up and hope you can keep the Claremorris - Collooney greenway idea floating, though I think you may have to look beyond our exchequer alone stepping in.

westtip

Thanks Keith - you clearly must be in the loop on all this stuff I am a bit harsh on our elected bretheren. You are right about O'Cuiv he did move the whole process forward a few yards, it just seems to take so long to do something that looks pretty simple in reality. In fact he actually floated out the idea of the Claremorris - Collooney Greenway to a West on Track conference in May 2009 (mind he got several letters from me about the matter before he made the speech and virtually verbatim used extracts from my letters in his speech!)

I will further digest your post and look at the links you suggest. The money for such a project is going to come from a number of different (public) pots, Failte Ireland, DOT, county councils - of course it all comes out of the same overdraft.

I think this whole project will rise or fall on the much loved "cost benefit analysis" which I really think will be a shoe in if an analysis of Mulranny is applied - it has definitely benefitted activity tourism big time in Newport/Mulranny area.

I know that the first major project they (DOT/FI) are looking at for the NCN is a seamless cycle track from Dublin to Galway, their is an existing lineage to link up - Grand canal, Mullingar/Athlone rail line, old N6 (separated cycle lane put in) - actually I think they should look at the parallel greenways to railways for this route as well - but that is another issue:

Have a look at this to see what I mean it is one of my favourite photos on this subject!

westtip

Sligo county council will be debating/discussing the managers report on submissions made by the public on the Sligo county Development plan 2011 - 2017 next monday January 17th. The council got a total of 15 written submissions on the idea to convert the old rail line into a greenway (this is actually quite a lot). The council will not release the managers report to the councillors until it has been debated - I will post a link on this thread when it is posted on Sligo coco website. In the meantime if you know any of your local councillors give them a call or speak to them asking them to support this idea - which I assume will be incorporated into the managers report to the council. make the call before their meeting on January 17th if you can

shanec1928

why waste public money?it could be better spent on schools that need upgrading or to go to the hospital..money for a walk way should be at the bottom of the pile.

westtip

forza rovers wrote: »

why waste public money?it could be better spent on schools that need upgrading or to go to the hospital..money for a walk way should be at the bottom of the pile.

You are entitled to your opinion - suggest you ask business people in Newport and Mulranny how the Great Western greenway has generated tourist income in the area this year. Generating economic activity = more taxes for hospitals schools etc.

A good quality walkway will reduce hospital bills: Healthier population with less coronary heart failure, less pedestrian victims on the roads.

This 47 mile walkway could be done for about 7 million it would pay for itself in economic activity it brings into the area - and since when did social infrastructure such as a footpath/cyclepath become a "waste of public money" compared to spending it on hospitals and schools.

Apart from anything else there is money available for the Natonal Cycle Network, this route is ideally suited to such a scheme, If Sligo County Council want to grab the opportunity now to get some of this (central Government) public pot spent in Sligo they should do - or they can sit around living in cloud cuckoo land in the fairy tale world of make believe thinking this railway line is ever going to be opened again.

This country is losing activity tourists such as walkers and cyclists because we don't have the infrastructure to deal with them - cycling long distance on a cycling touring holiday is torture on irish roads - this scheme would in someway help alleviate this situation in our county, plus local people need proper walking facilities.

kkontour

@westtip
Any Idea what came out of the meeting yeaterday?

T runner

westtip wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion - suggest you ask business people in Newport and Mulranny how the Great Western greenway has generated tourist income in the area this year. Generating economic activity = more taxes for hospitals schools etc.

A good quality walkway will reduce hospital bills: Healthier population with less coronary heart failure, less pedestrian victims on the roads.

This 47 mile walkway could be done for about 7 million it would pay for itself in economic activity it brings into the area - and since when did social infrastructure such as a footpath/cyclepath become a "waste of public money" compared to spending it on hospitals and schools.

Apart from anything else there is money available for the Natonal Cycle Network, this route is ideally suited to such a scheme, If Sligo County Council want to grab the opportunity now to get some of this (central Government) public pot spent in Sligo they should do - or they can sit around living in cloud cuckoo land in the fairy tale world of make believe thinking this railway line is ever going to be opened again.

This country is losing activity tourists such as walkers and cyclists because we don't have the infrastructure to deal with them - cycling long distance on a cycling touring holiday is torture on irish roads - this scheme would in someway help alleviate this situation in our county, plus local people need proper walking facilities.

I think its a great idea. Great for tourists and locals alike. While money needs to go to healtha nd education we must keep a percentage for sustainable industry. People are maively into being more healthy these days.

I would also like to see mini walking crcuits in towns for local walkers, this can be done at minimal cost.

westtip

kkontour wrote: »

@westtip
Any Idea what came out of the meeting yeaterday?

I'm told Sligo coco have taken the recommendation in the managers report to the council on submissions from the public on the Sligo county development plan = something along the lines that the council supports the idea of a greenway from Collooney to the county border within the alignment of the railway as long as it doesn't jeopardise a future railway shoudl funding become available for that - as the railway restoration is about as likely to happen as FF getting an overall majority in March, I think we can safely say the Greenway is looking increasingly like the only option for this route - In additon Mayo Coco have already asked their county manager to look at the feasibility of a greenway along the mayo section Claremorris - Bellahy. So we may actually see this happen with funding available for the National cycle network from central government - the time has now come to canvass hard to make it happen. The Greenway from Claremorris to Collooney is now on the political agenda and the railway is not the only show in town.

westtip

T runner wrote: »

I think its a great idea. Great for tourists and locals alike. While money needs to go to healtha nd education we must keep a percentage for sustainable industry. People are maively into being more healthy these days.

I would also like to see mini walking crcuits in towns for local walkers, this can be done at minimal cost.

Mayo county Council apparently say the Great Western greenway gets 300 users a day in the summer weekday days and 1000 day in the weekends = these things do generate activity as all these people out and about get tired hungry and thirsty, they then eat drink and need beds to sleep in. They also buy new bikes to use these facilities, new trainers to walk on them, they rent bikes to use them etc - the mulitplier effect of something as simple as this idea on the local economy could be huge.

westtip

The idea got reported in the Champion today page 32 - with the proposal that the pathway will be alongside the old railway as logn as it doesn't interfere with the prospect of the rail line re-opening. As the old rail line has about as much chance of re-opening as Brian Cowen does of being elected President I think we can safely assume that the only show in town on the old rail alignment is the greenway - it is truly good news to see the council at least adopting this idea - even if they hold onto the forlorn hope that the railway will ever open again. Lets see them push this idea now.....because just as it has in Westport/newport/mulranny and soon to be Achill it has completely changed tourism in West Mayo lets make a similiar idea do the same in Sligo.

Now this idea is in the public agenda people need to get behind it and support it. Make it happen.

Whats more there will be funding believe it or not for this idea - under the National Cycle network policy - whereas a major capital project such as the Railway will simply be put to the back of the queue.

Also see the Weekender on page 10 - double page spread on the Greenway project.

il gatto

keithcan wrote: »

Westtip, you say that “someone ought to let these gobsh*te politicians know what a success they have on their hands (with the Mayo greenway) for such a small investment”. Would these politicians that you deride be the same ones who were involved in the decision to fund the Mayo Greenway and who, if I recall correctly, cycled the track when it was opened (I think I recall Dempsey being there) ? I find your ideas good, but your lack of constructive balance is silly and unnecessary imo. I’ve suggested before that you check with D/transport how much is allocated for such developments and in reply you state that “the national cycle network is on the agenda” and that “the cost of the (Sligo) greenway is actually affordable”. My original suggestion still stands: why not ask them what is available for 2011 for the national cycle network and will converting the northern section of the WRC be part of any spend. This is a constructive suggestion to you and getting the answer, whatever it may be, would greatly inform this debate. Let’s park the issue of the railway development, let's even assume it’s unfeasible (as you have convincingly outlined) and that therefore, converting the WRC as a cycleway is not blocked by the WRC supporters. I still say that with the current disastrous national financial position, the Sligo greenway will not be do-able. D/transport may manage to get a small amount of cycle network done around the country, but Sligo will be down the list. You may disagree and, of course, we can always revist this point in a year’s time to see what transpired. But in the meantime, why oh why not just check out the budget provision for the national cycle network…???? It may be slightly more hassle than taking cheap swipes, but it'd be a damn sight more constructive and helpful to this debate.

Sorry to quote your post so late, but I think you give politicians too much credit. When lobbied on an issue and made aware of it's viability, they voted to spend public tax money on it. When it was all done and dusted, they showed up to gain some publicity. In fact, many projects are kept closed off from the public until the appropriate minister is available to cut a ribbon (the Loughrea bypass for example, which sat idle waiting for Dempsey until they had to open it due to flooding).
If we want balance, should take into account that well paid public representatives voted to spend our money on a project put forward by others and then showed up to take credit for it. We shouldn't prostrate ourselves because our representatives occasionally deign to represent what we actually want.

westtip

il gatto wrote: »

Sorry to quote your post so late, but I think you give politicians too much credit. When lobbied on an issue and made aware of it's viability, they voted to spend public tax money on it. When it was all done and dusted, they showed up to gain some publicity. In fact, many projects are kept closed off from the public until the appropriate minister is available to cut a ribbon (the Loughrea bypass for example, which sat idle waiting for Dempsey until they had to open it due to flooding).
If we want balance, should take into account that well paid public representatives voted to spend our money on a project put forward by others and then showed up to take credit for it. We shouldn't prostrate ourselves because our representatives occasionally deign to represent what we actually want.

Il gatto keithcan came in with some constructive comments - I replied to him, I have worked my bollox off to get this whole greenway idea accepted by local politicians and indeed national politiicians, because no one else put their head above the parapet and campained so relentlessy like I have (my identity I think is no secret - read the press), politicians will always take the credit for good ideas -but I don't see any harm in that - if you have a good idea you simply have to play the system, you have to lobby the politicians, journalists, "stakeholders" you have to keep plugging with your idea and make the politicians adopt it until they think it is their own - plant a seed and watch the acorn grow into an oak. "My" idea is not original others have written about this over 20 years ago, i picked it up and got passionate about - because I truly do believe in it. Our next stage now the politicians have adopted it - is to pressurise and lobby to make sure it happens. I truly do look forward to the day when pupils at St Attractas in Tubercurry living say halfway between Tubber and Charlestown can safely cycle to school because of this greenway, I look forward to the day when the marching young mums of tubber, coolaney, Charlestown, Kiltimagn and Claremorris can enjoy their evening walk on this Greenway, I look forward to the day when B&B and hotesl along this route feed Tired Hungry Tourists who have enjoyed a hassle free day cycling on our Greenway take a deserved break - this is a massive opportunity for the county, the councillors have had there eyes opened and in the past they had their eyes blinkered to something that was never going to happen.

We now have to make this happen - if paying lip service to politicians is something we have to do - in fact I have found engaging with our politicians on this matter laying out the facts, arguing the case that this is the only show in town has in fact been quite a challenge - most of the council i think breathed a collective sigh of relieve on this matte because in this idea they at long last saw members of the public coming at them with what is actually an achievable objective - unlike other ideas for this alignment which frankly are cloud cuckoo land - Now at last something is going to happen and we are going to make it happen. Perhaps, for once, it is power to the people.

keithcan

il gatto, I can see why you might make the point that politicians, when lobbied on an issue and seeing it as popular, may jump on the badwagon and use public funds to 'deliver' it. I should better explain my defence of the politicians' role. They certainly don't have a monopoly on good ideas and none of us should leave it solely to our politicians to come up with the next good idea. If individual citizens like westtip or activist groups develop and drive an idea and convert people to it's merits, then I'm happpy to see a politician stepping in and championing it. Especially if they can spend the time that you and I don't have to get the State's various bodies lined up behind it. The latter is a head wrecking undertaking, so a strong-willed politician with a brass neck can be an agent for change here. To some extent, that is their role. It can be categorised as 'glory hunting' etc, but I still hold that it's not the worst system if citizen activists press the idea and politicians might ultimately facilitate it happening. I'd like it better if the Sligo County Manager and his team latched onto this and drove it, but it probably needs the combined forces of them, plus the politicians, with citizens lobbying as a key element.

I think that was the receipe for the Mayo greenway, with a good dollop of cash from different govt departments, mostly transport. Yhea that IS our taxpayer money, but somebody has to prioritise where it'll be spent, and I reckon the bike hire people and the Mulranny Park Hotel (and the many walkers + cyclists) are glad that everyone involved gave it a go - from the ministers, Mayo county manager, local activists and individual landowners.

To add a point about this broad activity tourism area - more and more I'm hearing that there's a slow but steady growth in the number of tourists that are coming from all over (Irish and foreign) to use walking trails. The view I've heard is that we are now, a few years down the road, seeing tangible benefits of what mostly Eamon OCuiv did on this when he tackled the longstanding issue of trail access being blocked. Since then a good amount of trails have been sorted to complement the work that was always being done by local activist groups. Result as I hear it is Failte ireland are now marketing Ireland as a walking destination and locals and visitors alike can decide to walk a trail and know with confidence it will be open and well maintained. I wouldn't prostrate myself in front of the man, but he helped crack that one, along with the work of the likes of Joss Lynam, who sadly died recently http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0110/1224287158364.html and had done great work to develop activity trails and centres - a citizen activist being facilitated by a politician, and a decent outcome ensued.

westtip

Keithcan agree entirely. No point getting angry and emotive and saying "why don't they do this or that" - I have always wondered who "they" are. Putting forward good arguments and counter arguments to an opposite view and keep doing in long enough and eventually the idea will be picked up:

Anyway coverage on Mid West this morniing and indeed on page 2 of the irish times today in lead piece on home news about Enda supporting the greenway idea.

Kenny sees old railway as tourist trail
In this section » FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

FINE GAEL leader Enda Kenny has lent his support to plans for a walking and cycling “greenway” on part of the western rail corridor, implicitly ruling out its reinstatement as a railway.

“I favour this kind of development . . . which will have a considerable impact in respect of tourism,” Mr Kenny told Sligo-based greenway promoter Brendan Quinn, saying it should be subject to a feasibility study by Mayo and Sligo county councils.

The proposal is to create a greenway on the corridor between Claremorris, Co Mayo, and Collooney, Co Sligo, based on the success of the Great Western Greenway from Newport to Mulranny, Co Mayo, which is now being extended to Achill Island.

Last summer, the existing route attracted 300 walkers and cyclists on weekdays and up to 1,000 at weekends. It has been a “phenomenal success”, according to Mr Quinn. “Imagine what that is doing for these sleepy backwaters of Irish tourism,” he said.

Local politicians in Mayo and Sligo had woken up to the value of greenways as revenue-generators for local economies. Sligo County Council’s decision last week to include it as an objective was a huge breakthrough, he said.

Only one section of the western rail corridor, between Ennis and Athenry, has been reinstated for rail services. Plans to extend it further north to Tuam and Claremorris were included in the Government’s Transport 21 investment programme but are “on hold”.

Mr Quinn said Mayo County Council is investigating the opportunity to create a greenway on the rail alignment from Claremorris to Charlestown, rather than persist with the “rather forlorn idea” that the railway line would reopen.

Referring to the West on Track campaign, which is seeking to have the entire rail corridor reopened, he said this was unlikely to happen “any time soon, or at all” because the route did not have the population density to sustain a rail service.

“I don’t think the Ennis-Athenry line has set the world alight,” Mr Quinn said. “The X51 bus from Limerick to Galway does it in just over an hour now with the Gort bypass. The train takes almost two hours and is a lot less frequent.

“I am not anti-rail, but I do recognise that we have to be pragmatic and realistic. We ain’t going to get the line reinstated, so let’s use the track bed for something useful. The greenway idea will deliver something very cost-effectively and very quickly.”

He envisaged disused rail lines in Co Donegal could also be developed as greenways, creating a network of safe cycling and walking routes that would boost activity tourism in the west while also protecting the rail alignments.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0131/1224288605586.html

islanddoc

well done westtip- "There's no limit to what a man can achieve, if he doesn't care who gets the credit." Laing Burns, Jr.

Keep up the lobbying...

as an aside - how many people currently use the lower part of the western rail corridor by train- compare to the numbers who use the greenway in Mulranny- Newport - i dare say there is no comparison.

westtip

islanddoc wrote: »

well done westtip- "There's no limit to what a man can achieve, if he doesn't care who gets the credit." Laing Burns, Jr.

Keep up the lobbying...

as an aside - how many people currently use the lower part of the western rail corridor by train- compare to the numbers who use the greenway in Mulranny- Newport - i dare say there is no comparison.

Well certainly not 300 a day during the week and 1000 at weekends. but here is a post reporting on numbers last week - and it seems the only part of the line that is busy is the section from Ennis to Limerick - Ennis - Athenry is a dead duck and with buses running direct Limerick - Galway in just over an hour - the trains as a through route "inter city" on the so called corridor are running virtually empty for through route.

Read this post on the WRC thread from C&T http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70299963&postcount=1284

the figures in this anecdotal report suggest the new bit of the corridor that was campaigned for and re-opened last year between Ennis and Athenry has very low patronage figures. God knows what kind of numbers they expect on Tuam Athenry Galway and Claremorris Tuam Athenry Galway, but really they just don't stack up - as for our greenway section of the line, tis complete cloud cuckoo land to even dream about a train on that line again.....