Should you work for the dole?

Yes Boss

I have just read an article in the Waterford Today where Collr. Mary Roche makes the suggestion that maybe people should have to work for the dole. She points out that the dole has become a 'lifestyle' choice for some where they don't work, have never worked and have no intention of working whilst being in a position to own a car and go on a holiday!!

I believe that this has merit once it is not abused!!

JohnC.

I'm not sure I understand. If you have a job, why would you be getting the dole?

Yes Boss

Kahless wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand. If you have a job, why would you be getting the dole?

She is suggesting that people in receipt of the dole should have to work for it!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

I have just read an article in the Waterford Today where Collr. Mary Roche makes the suggestion that maybe people should have to work for the dole. She points out that the dole has become a 'lifestyle' choice for some where they don't work, have never worked and have no intention of working whilst being in a position to own a car and go on a holiday!!

I believe that this has merit once it is not abused!!

Is this the same lady who suggested putting a roof over Waterford?

Yes Boss

Yes Boss wrote: »

She is suggesting that people in receipt of the dole should have to work for it!

Did she cover what happens when the dole people start doing other people's jobs, and then more become unemployed because of the idea?

Did she hear of the Work Placement Programme? Does she realise many people are trying to do back to education, FAS courses and other such avenues, but due to the large amounts of unemployed people wanting to do something, there are huge queues down such avenues?


Or is she just stereotyping and discriminating against everyone on Social Welfare, casting them as useless scroungers who offer nothing in return to society?

deisemad10

I think its a fantastic idea to be honest ,i understand some people cannot work due to children etc but your single man/women drawing the dole whislt sitting on the arse everyday and others on the high stool should have to work maybe something equivilant to community service type work so whatever work they do the whole city/country benefits from it also .

JohnC.

Yes Boss wrote: »

She is suggesting that people in receipt of the dole should have to work for it!

What work? Where does this work come from? If there's work there, why aren't people being paid to do it already instead of being on the dole?

Yes Boss

Deleted User wrote: »

Did she cover what happens when the dole people start doing other people's jobs, and then more become unemployed because of the idea?

Did she hear of the Work Placement Programme? Does she realise many people are trying to do back to education, FAS courses and other such avenues, but due to the large amounts of unemployed people wanting to do something, there are huge queues down such avenues?


Or is she just stereotyping and discriminating against everyone on Social Welfare, casting them as useless scroungers who offer nothing in return to society?

No if you read the article, i believe she is highlighting the fact that many people use this as a lifestyle choice - where unlike people looking to work. They have no intentions of working!!

reallyrose

Even if some people were to pick up garbage, give grinds to JC and LC students, do a bit of weeding in the local park it would be something.

Say a person on the dole could do community service two days a week, leaving the other three and the weekend to look for a job with.

JohnC.

Yes Boss wrote: »

No if you read the article, i believe she is highlighting the fact that many people use this as a lifestyle choice - where unlike people looking to work. They have no intentions of working!!

But there are plenty who are willing to work but can't get any. So where does this other work appear out of?

Yes Boss

Kahless wrote: »

What work? Where does this work come from? If there's work there, why aren't people being paid to do it already instead of being on the dole?

Maybe they could clean up around their community if they are unskilled. Maybe if they are an unemployed teacher they could teach underperforming children after school to give them the chance of catching up etc. etc.

Just spotted reallyrose's post above!

Yes Boss

Yes Boss wrote: »

Maybe they could clean up around their community if they are unskilled. Maybe if they are an unemployed teacher they could teach underperforming children after school to give them the chance of catching up etc. etc.

Just spotted reallyrose's post above!

But those are the jobs that people get paid to do. If you start doing them for free, the people that should be paid to do them are left on the Dole.

Ryan!

reallyrose wrote: »

Even if some people were to pick up garbage... do a bit of weeding in the local park it would be something.

"Ah look at yer man pickin' up the garbage and pullin' weeds in the park, he's on the dole."

"He used to be the manager of AIB."

artielange

Yes Boss wrote: »

Maybe they could clean up around their community if they are unskilled. Maybe if they are an unemployed teacher they could teach underperforming children after school to give them the chance of catching up etc. etc.

Just spotted reallyrose's post above!

What difference would it make if they were skilled or not? They are all receiving the same dole.

Smiley Burnett

trade unions wouldnt allow it! End of story!

HavingCrack

To be fair there definately are some people out there who abuse social welfare. Personally i know one girl whoose life ambition from the age of 16 was to be a 'mummy'. She had no desire to work and expected the state to just provide for her. People like her definately ought not to get the dole.

however there are lots of people who are looking for employment and don't paticularly want to be on the dole and to say they ought to be working for the small payment is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

WOO FIRST POST

reallyrose

Deleted User wrote: »

But those are the jobs that people get paid to do. If you start doing them for free, the people that should be paid to do them are left on the Dole.

Giving disadvantaged students a little extra help isn't a job anyone is paid to do. Grinds are an optional extra that many parents can't afford.
But that is going to rant wildly off topic so I'll stop there.

My point was that there are lots of little things that could be done in any community to help out. For example, there were quite a few elderly folk who found it hard to get out to the shops in the filthy weather at the start of the year. A little group of helpers to go do the shopping for them, or to just call around once a day to make sure everything is ok would have been really helpful without taking a paid job from someone else.

I know that I have only a loose idea and that many holes could be picked in it. However, not every bit of work that a person on the dole could be asked to do in return for the social welfare payment would be taking a job from someone else.

Cabaal

Ryan! wrote: »

"Ah look at yer man pickin' up the garbage and pullin' weeds in the park, he's on the dole."

"He used to be the manager of AIB."

"Look at that guy who doesn't do any work anymore and just stays at home all the time not meeting or talking to that many people"

"He used to be the manager of AIB."

whats your point?
There's alot to be said for this suggestion, it could help keep people out of depression

goat2

Yes Boss wrote: »

I have just read an article in the Waterford Today where Collr. Mary Roche makes the suggestion that maybe people should have to work for the dole. She points out that the dole has become a 'lifestyle' choice for some where they don't work, have never worked and have no intention of working whilst being in a position to own a car and go on a holiday!!

I believe that this has merit once it is not abused!!

she hit the nail on the head
when there was work for all 2 yrs ago there were still dole que,s around the country, these are the people the authorities should be coming after first,

star.chaser

that's called a low paid job

reallyrose

reallyrose wrote: »

Giving disadvantaged students a little extra help isn't a job anyone is paid to do. Grinds are an optional extra that many parents can't afford.
But that is going to rant wildly off topic so I'll stop there.

My point was that there are lots of little things that could be done in any community to help out. For example, there were quite a few elderly folk who found it hard to get out to the shops in the filthy weather at the start of the year. A little group of helpers to go do the shopping for them, or to just call around once a day to make sure everything is ok would have been really helpful without taking a paid job from someone else.

I know that I have only a loose idea and that many holes could be picked in it. However, not every bit of work that a person on the dole could be asked to do in return for the social welfare payment would be taking a job from someone else.

There could be another kind of scheme set up I suppose.


See, the thing is, Welfare should know of everything you've done whilst on it. I've been on welfare for about two years now, but they are aware that during my time on it, I've done several fas courses and am currently going "back to education".

With that in mind, surely they could find everyone who hasn't done anything of the sort and has just been on welfare for years without making an effort to do anything.

These are the people that I feel should be targeted with such an idea. Throwing a blanket across every welfare recipient, especially those genuinely trying or just new on the dole, would just madden people I'd say.


That said, I still reckon you're doing people out of a job. Are there not carers and home help people who look after the elderly at such times?


Another concern is that, if you're on the dole, you're not allowed to volunteer for things or do charity work I don't think (the theory being that if you're volunteering somewhere then you're not actively seeking employment).


Personally, I wouldn't mind doing a bit of work here and there for my welfare. Especially now when we'll (hopefully) be getting good weather. The only downside, if we were working off this idea, is that I'd be grouped up with a bunch of lazy scumbags.


I wouldn't mind being put in a group of (decent, normal) people who are sent around the town or county to clean up Emergency service vehicles and the likes, and fix them up a bit. Get a tutor on such a scheme and bob's your uncle.

I learn a little bit about mechanics, the Gardaì get their cars fixed and cleaned for nothing, the tutor gets some experience teaching in an obscure area and it's something that'd look great on a CV, the Govt. would save a fortun by not having Garda cars in the garage every second week.



But that's just because I like the emergency services. Probably wouldn't appeal to anyone else.

Ryan!

Cabaal wrote: »

"Look at that guy who doesn't do any work anymore and just stays at home all the time not meeting or talking to that many people"

"He used to be the manager of AIB."

whats your point?
There's alot to be said for this suggestion, it could help keep people out of depression

Pride and Dignity.

Ex-teachers, ex-managers, ex-whatever aren't going to start picking up garbage and pulling up weeds in the local park, they just won't do it. Simple. No matter if you tell them it will keep them in a routine and active, most won't care. People are too proud to resort to such a thing.

I just highly doubt it would ever work and would create unnesseccary social classes, which would be worse in the long run.

goat2

Ryan! wrote: »

Pride and Dignity.

Ex-teachers, ex-managers, ex-whatever aren't going to start picking up garbage and pulling up weeds in the local park, they just won't do it. Simple. No matter if you tell them it will keep them in a routine and active, most won't care. People are too proud to resort to such a thing.

I just highly doubt it would ever work and would create unnesseccary social classes, which would be worse in the long run.

this is not the group of people i was thinking of, the people i am looking at are the ones that were on the dole 10 and 5 yrs ago and are still taking from the state to this day, no notion of working, never did, never will,

Ryan!

goat2 wrote: »

this is not the group of people i was thinking of, the people i am looking at are the ones that were on the dole 10 and 5 yrs ago and are still taking from the state to this day, no notion of working, never did, never will,

Then I 100% agree with you.

ziedth

Ryan has hit the nial there!

this is the main problem IMHO. I wouldn't have any problem doing a day somewhere (i'm off for for the summer) while I'm on the dole but I'm not gonna go down the park and have people saying to themselves look at that sponger there on the dole.

deisedevil

For people who are on the dole for a long period of time and are making no effort to find work then I would agree with giving them jobs to do.

For example. Imagine someone who is on the dole 5 years and is after deciding to stay as he is, shur why not, tis free money for doing nothing.

But all of a sudden he is told that to get this money he must go down and clean out the canal. A month later he realises that he is now getting very little for the amount of work he is having to do and decides "shur if I'm going to be working at all then I may as well get some decent money for it" and he starts to get off his hole and start putting himself out there and starts looking for work.

Isn't it the same for someone who isn't happy in their job or with what they are earning, they either have to just put up with it or start furthering their education or look for something better. There are plenty people on the dole who need to be given a reason to go out and start to look for work at least, start to try and improve their situation instead of sitting back taking the handouts and enjoying their lie in every morning.

Cabaal

Ryan! wrote: »

Pride and Dignity.

Ex-teachers, ex-managers, ex-whatever aren't going to start picking up garbage and pulling up weeds in the local park, they just won't do it. Simple. No matter if you tell them it will keep them in a routine and active, most won't care. People are too proud to resort to such a thing.

Oh come on, the same people would have looked down on people years ago that would have been on the dole, if they want the money they'll do the job.

Its a job like any other,

I just highly doubt it would ever work and would create unnesseccary social classes, which would be worse in the long run.

Oh you mean like those social classes these people looked down on for years because they weren't on the dole at the time?

goat2

deisedevil
For example. Imagine someone who is on the dole 5 years and is after deciding to stay as he is, shur why not, tis free money for doing nothing.

But all of a sudden he is told that to get this money he must go down and clean out the canal. A month later he realises that he is now getting very little for the amount of work he is having to do and decides "shur if I'm going to be working at all then I may as well get some decent money for it" and he starts to get off his hole and start putting himself out there and starts looking for work.

________________________________________________


the best and most sensible thing i have heard on here
great point.
wouldnt it be great if they did this, we would have a far better fairer country for it

dayshah

goat2 wrote: »

she hit the nail on the head
when there was work for all 2 yrs ago there were still dole que,s around the country, these are the people the authorities should be coming after first,

There will always be people who are genuinely between jobs, and were legitimately on the dole 2 years ago.

I'd take a look at people who were long term unemployed 3 years ago. There you'd have a mixture of people who couldn't even read and should be helped out that way. Others just couldn't be arsed. I wouldn't put the 2nd group picking up rubbish. They probably wouldn't do it properly. Better just cut their dole.

But the vast majority on the dole at present would work if they could (1000 people applying for 25 cinema jobs in Wexford), and there are already schemes as already pointed out that get people to take care of their local estates. Also lots of young fellas, former construction workers, are occupying themselves by training junior GAA and soccer teams, and fair play to them.

All in all, Mary Roche should have brought it up 3 years ago, and is largely showing a lack of knowledge.

tc2010

So someone actually wants to get the lazy long term dole heads off there asses and do something and there slated for it

Who here doesnt know someone who has been on the dole for years and has no intention of working?

If there was work in the bed half the youth in this city would sleep on the floor

sure why not? its free

Yes Boss

artielange wrote: »

What difference would it make if they were skilled or not? They are all receiving the same dole.

It would determine what their capabilities were!

alrightcuz

firstly this type of program is out years its not a new idea,
your just new to the situation and you think you found a solution.... you didn't

secondly Who are these people who your on about,,,, everyone i know on the dole was sent out on a course/job or two.my uncle painted schools,a friend of mine cut grass another helped with buildings this idea is out years i don't know of anyone long term who just does nothing,,, stop looking for something that doesn't exist.

you might love your wife but 24 hours a day everyday,,,please what man doesn't love to do a bit of work and get out of the house

shockwave

If you were made to work while on the dole wouldnt that make you an employee of the state and therefore a civil servant!:D

Junior

Jesus it seems as if the politicos are doing more press releases lately than anything else. This is just another great headline grabber, the reality and the headline are two different things.

If people are long term unemployed and have made a lifestyle choice out of that, I'd love to see the standard of work they'd do, considering they don't want to be there.

Firstly what needs to be done is an assessment of these people, not one of yer airy fairy sit down interviews, put them thru some psychometric testing, personality and capability will then be well defined, no doubt some will get a doctors note to excuse them.

They then need to put into a program that skills them for an area of work they are capable of doing, and if they refuse/mess up the work then on a sliding scale their dole should be reduced.

19.5V

B&L 100, Genzyme 100, AOL 100, Waterford Corp 100, Waterford Co Co 100, Brewery 100, Honneywell 100, Smartply 100, AIBP 100, ESB 100,

Say if the above agree to take in 100 each, where do the other 10,000 go and the other 6,000 from the surrounding environs

Another Stupid suggestion from another Parish-Pump-Politician

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

B&L 100, Genzyme 100, AOL 100, Waterford Corp 100, Waterford Co Co 100, Brewery 100, Honneywell 100, Smartply 100, AIBP 100, ESB 100,

Say if the above agree to take in 100 each, where do the other 10,000 go and the other 6,000 from the surrounding environs

Another Stupid suggestion from another Parish-Pump-Politician

I suppose all she was highlighting, was the entitlement brigade!! No one here is talking about people who recently lost their jobs, we are talking about the ones who are free loading on the back of every tax payer in the Country!!

apriloneill

alrightcuz wrote: »

firstly this type of program is out years its not a new idea,
your just new to the situation and you think you found a solution.... you didn't

secondly Who are these people who your on about,,,, everyone i know on the dole was sent out on a course/job or two.my uncle painted schools,a friend of mine cut grass another helped with buildings this idea is out years i don't know of anyone long term who just does nothing,,, stop looking for something that doesn't exist.

you might love your wife but 24 hours a day everyday,,,please what man doesn't love to do a bit of work and get out of the house

A course / job or two?? For how many years on the dole is this? Even if your uncle and friend have done a few jobs here and there you're pretty naive to think that there aren't thousands of people in the country doing absolutely nothing to get work simply because they don't want to work. I personally know of several and it's so infuriating. It's simply true that for some people that is the way of life they choose.

In relation to the idea of work for people on the dole long term, I think it's a great idea to get people out doing work in the community. There's plenty of work that could be done to keep the city cleaner and more welcoming to visitors. Why should there not be a little given back for tax payers money? For professionals to help out with community projects is a good idea since jobs such as teaching assistants and special needs assistants have been cut recently. At the moment when so many cutbacks are necessary I don't think they would be taking a paid job from anyone, they'd be helping to provide a service that unfortunately the government can no longer afford to pay for.

Deise Tom

Yes Boss wrote: »

I have just read an article in the Waterford Today where Collr. Mary Roche makes the suggestion that maybe people should have to work for the dole. She points out that the dole has become a 'lifestyle' choice for some where they don't work, have never worked and have no intention of working whilst being in a position to own a car and go on a holiday!!

I believe that this has merit once it is not abused!!

Have not seen the article but going on what you say, i have to agree with Mary Roche on this one.

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

whilst being in a position to own a car and go on a holiday!!

Let’s have a look in through their window and see if they have a big Foff flat screen as well!

Then gather them all up at the bullbost for interrogation, ask them to produce receipts on when they purchased their cars and holidays, those like (the rest of us) who purchased them when they were working are OK but the rest of them, SEND THEM TO THE GULAG……….cop-on Roche

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

Let’s have a look in through their window and see if they have a big Foff flat screen as well!

Then gather them all up at the bullbost for interrogation, ask them to produce receipts on when they purchased their cars and holidays, those like (the rest of us) who purchased them when they were working are OK but the rest of them, SEND THEM TO THE GULAG……….cop-on Roche

That's a great idea!!:o

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

That's a great idea!!:o

Yes the "cop-on Roche" bit

thank you

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

Yes the "cop-on Roche" bit

thank you

Maybe they should hire you to round them all up!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

Maybe they should hire you to round them all up!

No not me I respect peoples civil liberties, unlike the majority subscribing to this thread

bryaner

Great idea and I'm on the feckin dole.

19.5V

bryaner wrote: »

Great idea and I'm on the feckin dole.

Well I hope that you wont be on it long and I hope that you are smart with your money........;)

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

No not me I respect peoples civil liberties, unlike the majority subscribing to this thread

If you are unwilling to contribute to society your dole should be taken from you! maybe we should adopt a system like other European states where you are given the dole for a set period of time and if you do not obtain a job after that you are struck off!!

bryaner

19.5V wrote: »

Well I hope that you wont be on it long and I hope that you are smart with your money........;)

Nearly 2 years on it after 20 years of solid work for the one firm (albeit im trying to get something of them since my stamps ran out) but I'm mad for work head is melted.

Yes Boss

bryaner wrote: »

Nearly 2 years on it after 20 years of solid work for the one firm (albeit im trying to get something of them since my stamps ran out) but I'm mad for work head is melted.

Best of luck with that bryaner!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

If you are unwilling to contribute to society your dole should be taken from you! maybe we should adopt a system like other European states where you are given the dole for a set period of time and if you do not obtain a job after that you are struck off!!

so take me through what you think will happen next, after a persons dole is taken away?

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

so take me through what you think will happen next, after a persons dole is taken away?

They get up and show some initiative!!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

They get up and show some initiative!!

wow, looks as if you and roche share something