Weirdo Stops Liking Games

altairscreed

Im a bit confused about this one as i didnt think that it was possible

Anyway i was in xtravision last week with my girlfriend while looking at the ps3 games i seen these two blokes around my age (mid20s) standing behind me then one of them says to the other one "i dont really like computer games anymore" well when i heard this my jaw dropped i immediately turned to my girlfriend and asked her did she hear what yer man said which she did and as someone not very fond of computer games she also thought this was quite strange .

So im just wondering do you know anyone like that above said weirdo or was this just a very rare encounter as i believe i mean how do you stop liking something that just keeps on improving

It's happened to me. I was obsessed with games as a child but as I grew up I mostly lost interest. Still love the same ones I did then but nothing new really appeals to me. The only games I have installed on my PC are Portal and MS Train Simulator.

amacachi

There's very few games in the last 5 years I could be arsed with.

o1s1n

Because many modern games are suffering from 'it's already been done before-itis' and 'spend loads of visuals and none on gameplay/originality-itis'.

I have most modern consoles but don't bother with any of them. Just stick to older systems.

Quality of games peaked a long time ago. They certainly do not 'keep on improving' unfortunately.

NotorietyH

Most of my friends grew sick of computer games after a while. It's nothing strange. In fact I'm one of the few people I know my age who is actually into games. Even then I didn't play them for a few years until I got back into 'em with the PS3.

Star Bingo

o1s1n wrote: »

Because many modern games are suffering from 'it's already been done before-itis' and 'spend loads of visuals and none on gameplay/originality-itis'.

alright well.. m gonna get all profound its not just games suffer from it, everything does now. the 80s in particular was the beginning of modern life - the beginning of forever but essentially signaled the dying gasps of progression. take fashion, music, even movies and TV shows theyre remaking old stuff because the ideas got used up for the most part - could at least tag the title with the year it was done as a tribute to the original.. n for reference cos it'll be remade again most likely. and again. we become weary of repetitive formulas but its always new to each new generation of wide-eyed kids. so much stuff has already been introduced for em yet if they realized their parents did it first and in a less commercial, mainstream form they'd probs be mortified. there is no underground anymore but as long as theyre unaware there ever was one, they should be fine

things r very well marketed now thats where the creativity goes when they don't have to think about other aspects. they can only touch up stuff now be it the latest material / audio / image production techniques, and keeping the consumer machine well oiled is all they can do i'm afraid.. if games take faster strides toward realism in the visual department where theres clearly room for improvement, i'll stick w/ em. but unless they do this weirdo's about to stop liking games

anto86

quite sick of games me self

Minstrel27

I love games but know of a few that don't like them. It's not that uncommon.

jaykhunter

Well this current generation of games are mostly centered around FPS titles; but most games are quite intricate; requiring mastering of a controller with 8 buttons and a few D-pads (altho Wii are leading the charge in simpler games)...some people (like myself) loved 2D and didn't care for 3D (i didn't enjoy the crappy graphics of the 3D-teething era) but have since gotten back into gaming this generation.

Games tho have been largely similar in the 2000s, just with better graphics and more intricate controls. Nothing will compare with the initial pull of video games; but maybe when/if Wii/Natal/Move hit their stride in terms of really a new way to play games, older gamers will come back in.

I also postulate at some point in your life, you stop being good at videogames, and have trouble working new machines (dvd player, new TV etc). Happened to my bro a few years ago. It was hilarious!

Videogames by their very format, maybe people just get tired of getting from level to level, gaining powerups etc...maybe since our (arseho1e) society who view games as kids' toys has finally gotten to him, and leaving VGs behind is the way he'll actually "grow up". There's a negative stigma attached to videogames, i'm sure it'd only take a few well-placed clucks of disapproval from people he cares about to push him away from games.

Retr0gamer

I'm kind of going through a rut at the moment as well. It's happened to me before but then an amazing game will come along and get me back into gaming. I just feel this generation is really lacking in creativity. There's far too much riding on projects to make a profit that there's very little risk so games end up be copies of games that have already been successful. I find I'm playing a lot more handheld and emulated games recently. Demons Souls has probably been the only really original bit of gaming this generation that has been successful. I'm finding a lot of highly rated games really aren't that great and I end up playing a lot of games that before I wouldn't have given the time of day to.

The stagnation of the PC market is also a huge factor. RPGs, and hybrid games like System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are few and far between or dumbed down so much that they just become generic console fair. It's a real shame because there's something about getting your teeth into a complex game system that dumbed down games really can't deliver. At least the Indie scene is bigger and better than ever and giving us some of the best games of this generation.

Melion

I used to be obsessed with games when i worked in GameStop(2003-4), id come home from work and play the PS2 all night, every night. I remember taking a week off work when Vice City came out so i could play it. I got my 360 for Xmas 2006, at the moment it is just sitting here looking at me. There are 25 games beside it, i think ive finished 2 of them. Ive tried and tried to get back into it but i just cant, i think ive put it on about 5 times since my daughter was born last July.

I still play FM constantly though.

super_furry

My gaming interests are narrowing down to Western RPGs and adventure games, although I not sure if that's down to the marked drop in quality and innovation from Japanese developers this generation.

noodler

Personally I think it is just time constraints.

Some games need times investments to really get into, as you get older you can't really afford the time.

Fallout 3 is a good example for me, I was able to give it alot of time to begin with and so was able to get into it after the initial boringness. If I had been busier at the time and only gave it an hour here or there then I sincerely doubt I would have been able to appreciate it as much.

If you get home from work late, and have an hour free, alot of times I would rather watch an episode from a DVD box set than play, say Demons Souls, where I will more than likely accomplish nothing and probably go to bed angrier than before I started.

o1s1n

You're right about the lack of time. It really took a lot of effort for me to finish Fallout 3 and all the expansions. And I was only really willing to put the effort in as it was such a fantastic game. It's the only game of this generation I've bothered with to that extent.

Saying that, Fallout 2 was still better.

tonydude

I was mad into playing games growing up,but recently ive noticed that id get bored playing certain games and id just turn it off. As you grow up, gaming doesnt seem that important especially when your out of work .

Star Bingo

another thing is since the internet became more commonplace over the last 5yr in particular we're aware of games 2-4 years before theyre even released. following its development/watching spoilers then gettn baited by trailers is it any wonder we're probs tired of it by the time its actually released - n when the same developers use the same engine/core mechanics we may have already played it before. hoping RDR differs enough from GTAIV as i've been avoiding it for the most part


- in my experience anticipation does not work well w/ games, especially when they get overrated. or was i anticipating too much?!

Grumpypants

I was addicted to them through the atari, Spectrum, NES, SNES a bit of a break untill the PS1.

PS2/xbox got me back into serious gameing but mainly pro evo, must have played that for a good 4 to 5 years. Not much else was played living in college with 5 or 6 other lads made it next to impossible to sit down for a 4 or 5 hours blast on a single player game.

When i got my own gaff and the PS3/360 came along i become addicted all over again i started to enjoy FPS more as the graphics improved making it easier for me to see targets!!.

Still play them to this day not sure if thats sad or not i dont think so but the missus doesnt agree

Have found a big change in gaming they have moved from really long really hard to beat games to quite short (10ish hours) blockbusters with more in common with films than the old 2D games.

Krusader

I usually go through a phase of console/PC/console, on the PC i usually just play historical grand strategy games and FM, Im on my console phase now probably until Victoria 2 is released

Scráib

While I don't play to the extent that I used to I'm still a gameaholic. As I got older other priorities took over: Leaving Cert, the wimmin, college, the wimmin, work, the wimmin, hobbies, sports, socializing, etc etc.

When i was a young 'un I'd put in about 25 hours a week if I was hooked. These days I might play 12 a week if I've got absolutely nothing else on. Lately I've been waiting for Red Dead to come out so my PS3 has been switched off going on a month now.

One thing I will say OP, if you were hooked on games as a kid I'd find it hard to see how you'd lose interest in them bar a sprog appearing. If you were a more casual gamer then I'm not surprised if you'd not bother when you hit a certain point in your life.

altairscreed

Scráib wrote: »

One thing I will say OP, if you were hooked on games as a kid I'd find it hard to see how you'd lose interest in them bar a sprog appearing. If you were a more casual gamer then I'm not surprised if you'd not bother when you hit a certain point in your life.

Iv two kids actually and a job i only play a couple of hours a night when the babies are in bed, gamings not my life just something i always enjoyed as a hobby and i just couldn't understand how you could just stop liking it,tbh i thought by starting this thread in the playstation forum we'd have a bit of a laugh about it, well that went down like a lead balloon probably wont ever start a thread again:D

Magill

You know whats funny, people that complain about the current generation of film/music/games not being as good as the previous generation are the same people whos parents would whine about the same thing when they were younger. Nostalgia is a funny thing you know.

I mean in the last year, we've had games like dragonage / demonsoul / fallout3(Maybe more than a year old ?) / uncharted2 / MW2 (Say what you want about the single player, its still awesome fun online) / Bioshock / GTA4 / Assassins Creed 2... etc

All of these games are amazing, some have great stories, some have great action, some have great freedom and some are great to play with friends, what else do you want ?

When the n64 or supernes was the console to have, you would get 4 or 5 great games each year, now theres 3/4 times that.


I think its more to do with time/priorities (Like someone said). As you get older the less time you'll have to play games.

Butch Cassidy

o1s1n wrote: »

Because many modern games are suffering from 'it's already been done before-itis' and 'spend loads of visuals and none on gameplay/originality-itis'.

I have most modern consoles but don't bother with any of them. Just stick to older systems.

Quality of games peaked a long time ago. They certainly do not 'keep on improving' unfortunately.

Isn't it true to say that games have become too easy? and with games being too easy and leading you by yr hand along the way then when you come to a hard bit you're just frustrated and pissed off and don't bother playing through to get that sense of achievement that "fúck yess!!! I did it!!!" factor you used to with games.

I can remember ringing up friends when I was younger saying that I'd just cleared a really hard boss or whatever.

jaykhunter

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Isn't it true to say that games have become too easy? and with games being too easy and leading you by yr hand along the way then when you come to a hard bit you're just frustrated and pissed off and don't bother playing through to get that sense of achievement that "fúck yess!!! I did it!!!" factor you used to with games.

I can remember ringing up friends when I was younger saying that I'd just cleared a really hard boss or whatever.

I remember I simply gave up on a lot of games because I couldn't finish it. [I watch watching AVGN's review of Terminator/T2 the game; I couldn't get past the 2nd level in T2] Surely that wasn't what the developer intended! If you're finding games too easy I'd recommend starting on the hardest difficulty; you can get better longevity out of your games so.

Being able to finish games is a good thing!

Retr0gamer

jaykhunter wrote: »

Being able to finish games is a good thing!

A lot of the games on AVGN are just badly designed games and too hard because they are ****. There's a skill to making hard games that are challenging but beatable with practice and patience but not so hard that it turns off your audience. Games these days are cake walks. Last game I played that presented a decent but fair challenge was Demon's Souls.

docdolittle

Retr0gamer wrote: »

A lot of the games on AVGN are just badly designed games and too hard because they are ****. There's a skill to making hard games that are challenging but beatable with practice and patience but not so hard that it turns off your audience. Games these days are cake walks. Last game I played that presented a decent but fair challenge was Demon's Souls.

I was told by a guy in the gaming industry to make my game 'retardedly simply' otherwise people would get bored or just annoyed and not play. It was pretty hard to reach the goal at the end of our game and half the people that played it, couldn't reach the end. There's a fine line between making the game challenging and making it fun that developers should really be making the main focus of their games, rather than aesthetics.

I'm getting a bit bored of games myself these days, but I'm loving games like Mass Effect 2 that are released, it's one of the games that got me back playing again I Just think that games companies are relying too much on trying to be innovative and we end up with games that are just aren't. They just seem to be a mash of other games so we end up with MMORPGFPS and everything else under the sun in a game. This is a really bad way to do things as many games still haven't even mastered a single genre of games let alone the mix bag of crap developers are throwing at us these days :pac:

TinCool

I certainly don't play as much games as I used to. I grew up in the 80's and was mad in to games when I was younger. I still play stuff on emulators reliving those times. Yes I was bitten by the nostalgia bug a long time ago. I was a big gamer and owned everything from c64's atari's, snes, megadrive ...<insert most things in here>..... pc, ps3.

I don't play much at all these days but mostly play stuff on my PS3. I usually go with the big titles like Uncharted 2. I recently got and completed Episodes from Liberty City and of course am waiting for Red Dead Redemption. Once I finish this, my gaming will drop off until the next thing arrives.

Like someone posted, I just don't have the time to invest in a game to become really good at it. Gone are the days of playing Quake 2 for 8 hours a day 7 days a week.

So yes, I don't play games as much as used do but still play them, just my choice of games is a lot more selective these days as I don't have time to invest in them or finding a games that holds my interest is a lot harder.

o1s1n

Magill wrote: »

You know whats funny, people that complain about the current generation of film/music/games not being as good as the previous generation are the same people whos parents would whine about the same thing when they were younger. Nostalgia is a funny thing you know.

Unless of course it's true that is.

If you want to go down the music route, I grew up in the 80's/90's but find music from the 60/70s to be far superior. There are some generations that are simply better than the current one.

Magill wrote: »

When the n64 or supernes was the console to have, you would get 4 or 5 great games each year, now theres 3/4 times that.

Really goes to show what limited knowledge you have of older games. There are hundreds if not thousands of good games for older systems. Saying it's limited to 4 or 5 a year is madness.

I don't nostalgia, I look for the best videogames and play them. Whatever system they're on. Too many people just limit themselves these days to the 'current generation' and turn their nose up to anything because 'dat luks ****!'

I played through Panzer Dragoon Saga last week on the Saturn. That game is better than any RPG I've played on a modern console.

Before that I was playing through Castlevania: Symphony of the Night..also better than any game I've played on a modern console.

Currently working through Earthbound. Only a little bit in but so far it's also better than any game I've played on a modern console.

Although I loved Fallout 3, I found Fallout 2 to be a better experience.

Seems to be a pattern repeating itself here...

Magill wrote: »

I think its more to do with time/priorities (Like someone said). As you get older the less time you'll have to play games.

Yes and no. There is a major time priority issue alright. However I had the same time priority when playing Chrono Trigger recently, but it's so damn good I made sure I had time. And that's a game I've already finished multiple times. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find games I'm playing from this generation make me want to put that effort in.

Final Fantasy XIII for example, I'm 20 hours in an just can't take any more of it! Turned it off and played some Metal Slug instead.

gstar

im still happily loving my gamin. i went through my sick of gaming phase for a couple of years after gta san andreas, much to my disappointment; that game was a let down for me.

I used to have a massive thing for Medal of Honor games on ps2, so you can imagine how happy i was to play my first online game which happened to be COD:WAW which also happened to be Medal of Honor's doppleganger. Then to discover that in fact COD4 was better again, got me totally hooked back on gaming. Maybe when it comes to gaming i am easily pleased, but i never really get sick of gaming

Magill

o1s1n wrote: »

Unless of course it's true that is.

If you want to go down the music route, I grew up in the 80's/90's but find music from the 60/70s to be far superior. There are some generations that are simply better than the current one.

Again this is just your opinion, which was kind of my whole point. In some peoples opinion, 80's > 60/70's. I personally can appreciate music from every generation.

Really goes to show what limited knowledge you have of older games. There are hundreds if not thousands of good games for older systems. Saying it's limited to 4 or 5 a year is madness.

I said great games, not good games. I grew up with the supernes/n64. I guess being a kid tho, you cant really go out and buy every good game that was released.

I don't nostalgia, I look for the best videogames and play them. Whatever system they're on. Too many people just limit themselves these days to the 'current generation' and turn their nose up to anything because 'dat luks ****!'

Likewise, but maybe i dont believe you and think that your just baised towards games that you grew up playing... which ofc is the best time to play games.

I played through Panzer Dragoon Saga last week on the Saturn. That game is better than any RPG I've played on a modern console.

Before that I was playing through Castlevania: Symphony of the Night..also better than any game I've played on a modern console.

Currently working through Earthbound. Only a little bit in but so far it's also better than any game I've played on a modern console.

Although I loved Fallout 3, I found Fallout 2 to be a better experience.

This is getting boring, these may be better IN YOUR OPINION, but your obviously bias toward older games you played when growing up. I enjoyed fallout2 more than fallout3 also, but fallout 3 is still fantastic.

Seems to be a pattern repeating itself here...

There is, that you somehow believe your opinion > The hundreds of millions of people that are enjoying computer games of this generation.

Yes and no. There is a major time priority issue alright. However I had the same time priority when playing Chrono Trigger recently, but it's so damn good I made sure I had time. And that's a game I've already finished multiple times. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find games I'm playing from this generation make me want to put that effort in.

Final Fantasy XIII for example, I'm 20 hours in an just can't take any more of it! Turned it off and played some Metal Slug instead.

I never got into FFXIII either to be honest, it doesn't really compare to other top RPG's out today.

o1s1n

Magill wrote: »

Again this is just your opinion, which was kind of my whole point. In some peoples opinion, 80's > 60/70's. I personally can appreciate music from every generation.

The point I was trying to make is it's not just nostalgia (which is the impression I got from your initial post) There are great games in every generation. Many of which are still relevant today with our super blueray high def machines. In the same way classic films are still relevant.

Magill wrote: »

I said great games, not good games. I grew up with the supernes/n64. I guess being a kid tho, you cant really go out and buy every good game that was released.

You said there were only 4-5 great games for older consoles a year, opposed to now where there are many times that.

Which is complete rubbish.

By your numbers, going at the higher end of the scale, there are 50 great games on older systems in a decade. Which to me means you haven't played enough games.

True you couldn't go out and buy every game. You can get them cheap now though (mostly). So you have NO excuse to miss them now

Magill wrote: »

Likewise, but maybe i dont believe you and think that your just baised towards games that you grew up playing... which ofc is the best time to play games.

This is getting boring, these may be better IN YOUR OPINION, but your obviously bias toward older games you played when growing up. I enjoyed fallout2 more than fallout3 also, but fallout 3 is still fantastic.

I didn't grow up playing PDS, Chrono Trigger, and Castlevania SOTN. I only played through them all well after their initial release. You're trying to pin the nostalgia thing on me again when it's not that at all. Sure, I am nostalgic about certain games. But good games is good games!

Magill wrote: »

There is, that you somehow believe your opinion > The hundreds of millions of people that are enjoying computer games of this generation.

Well that's great for them. All I am doing is offering my own opinion as to why someone may have grown tired of new games. As someone who has been through all the systems since the 80s I can see where they're coming from and have experienced it myself.

If someone is growing up on the current machines it must be great. However every time I play an FPS for example I just get a massive 'meh' at this point. I've been playing them since Wolfenstein 3D. The formula has gotten a bit stale.

Magill wrote: »

I never got into FFXIII either to be honest, it doesn't really compare to other top RPG's out today.

It really is awful isn't it? Such a massive let down.

I am quite looking forward to Read Dead Redemption I must say.

Scráib

altairscreed wrote: »

Iv two kids actually and a job i only play a couple of hours a night when the babies are in bed, gamings not my life just something i always enjoyed as a hobby and i just couldn't understand how you could just stop liking it,tbh i thought by starting this thread in the playstation forum we'd have a bit of a laugh about it, well that went down like a lead balloon probably wont ever start a thread again:D

Ah sure you sparked off a big debate about it, that's something! Maybe we take ourselves to seriously in this forum these days.

OI! Weirdos! STOP GOING OFF GAMES!

Magill

o1s1n wrote: »

The point I was trying to make is it's not just nostalgia (which is the impression I got from your initial post) There are great games in every generation. Many of which are still relevant today with our super blueray high def machines. In the same way classic films are still relevant.

I think nostalgia is a big factor when it comes to alot of things tho, maybe not entirely in your case, but you always hear old men whining about how everything sucks now compared to when they were young. Thats not to say oldies arent great, but that newer generations are quite often just as good if not better.

You said there were only 4-5 great games for older consoles a year, opposed to now where there are many times that.

Which is complete rubbish.

I don't think it is, the type of games im talking about are games like Super mario world / Zelda: Orcina of time / Goldeneye, you know, the 9/10 type of game. I think its probably more to do with the top games today being mostly multiplatform that there are more top games on each console tho, but then again there is alot more money in gaming today and alot more developers than there was back in the 90's and earlier. I do think because of this there has been FAR more top notch games released in the 00's...

True you couldn't go out and buy every game. You can get them cheap now though (mostly). So you have NO excuse to miss them now

Or that i dont have to wait on my parents to buy them for me !

I didn't grow up playing PDS, Chrono Trigger, and Castlevania SOTN. I only played through them all well after their initial release. You're trying to pin the nostalgia thing on me again when it's not that at all. Sure, I am nostalgic about certain games. But good games is good games!

Exactly. Good games are good games, even the new ones.

Well that's great for them. All I am doing is offering my own opinion as to why someone may have grown tired of new games. As someone who has been through all the systems since the 80s I can see where they're coming from and have experienced it myself.

If someone is growing up on the current machines it must be great. However every time I play an FPS for example I just get a massive 'meh' at this point. I've been playing them since Wolfenstein 3D. The formula has gotten a bit stale.

I thought bioshock was pretty orginal, the CoD series is very unorginal i agree, its still quite fun to play online. I guess we'll have to wait for half life 3 to get another really awesome FPS game, i still think Counterstrike is by far the best online fps game out there, the true daddy of multiplayer fps games imo.

It really is awful isn't it? Such a massive let down.

I am quite looking forward to Read Dead Redemption I must say.

Yeah, very boring. I had only just finnished playing dragons age, so i guess that didnt help make it look any better

Red dead is gonna be awesome.

Retr0gamer

Magill wrote: »

I don't think it is, the type of games im talking about are games like Super mario world / Zelda: Orcina of time / Goldeneye, you know, the 9/10 type of game. I think its probably more to do with the top games today being mostly multiplatform that there are more top games on each console tho, but then again there is alot more money in gaming today and alot more developers than there was back in the 90's and earlier. I do think because of this there has been FAR more top notch games released in the 00's....

There's definitely not more top quality games being released now than in previous generations, I'd say it's about the same. I would like to say that there were more released in previous generations but I know it's nostalgia condensing years into a shorter time space in my mind. Also Goldeneye is a good case for the influence of nostalgia. If you played it now it's a very poor game even if it was great for it's time.

Magill wrote: »

I thought bioshock was pretty orginal.

It's actually not original at all. It's almost a remake of 1999's System Shock 2 by the same developer. I really liked Bioshock but I finally played System Shock 2 and it quickly became one of my favourite games ever. It's much better than Bioshock since Bioshock has been dumbed down for controllers. It's a shame that consoles have seen a shift to simpler FPS games when the PC for a time had complex classics like Deus Ex and System Shock 2. It the way the genre should have been going but it's gone backwards. The closest modern games to these are STALKER and Fallout 3 and even with Fallout 3 I'd rather it wasn't so combat focused and had more emphasis on stealth, tech and verbal skills like Fallout 2. Saying that it did show that a complex game like System Shock 2 can work on the consoles and with a controller while being commercially viable.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's actually not original at all. It's almost a remake of 1999's System Shock 2 by the same developer. I really liked Bioshock but I finally played System Shock 2 and it quickly became one of my favourite games ever. It's much better than Bioshock since Bioshock has been dumbed down for controllers. It's a shame that consoles have seen a shift to simpler FPS games when the PC for a time had complex classics like Deus Ex and System Shock 2. It the way the genre should have been going but it's gone backwards. The closest modern games to these are STALKER and Fallout 3 and even with Fallout 3 I'd rather it wasn't so combat focused and had more emphasis on stealth, tech and verbal skills like Fallout 2. Saying that it did show that a complex game like System Shock 2 can work on the consoles and with a controller while being commercially viable.

Ahahahahahah.

You are hilarious man.

Take a breather will you, the poster found it original.

Butch Cassidy

o1s1n wrote: »

True you couldn't go out and buy every game. You can get them cheap now though (mostly). So you have NO excuse to miss them now

Sure, if you have over a hundred euro to buy these games you speak of!

Helix

i fall out of love with games around the 3/4 way point of each generation tbh, when games become copycats for the most part and innovation is lacking bar the occasional title

i think its to do with development costs dropping as the consoles age and better tools are available for lower prices, so devs can churn out stuff relatively cheaply

a few years to go in this gen before we hit that point, but fps games for me have already passed the point of no return. we need a game changer in that genre desperately

Butch Cassidy

Magill wrote: »

I think nostalgia is a big factor when it comes to alot of things tho, maybe not entirely in your case, but you always hear old men whining about how everything sucks now compared to when they were young. Thats not to say oldies arent great, but that newer generations are quite often just as good if not better.






I don't think it is, the type of games im talking about are games like Super mario world / Zelda: Orcina of time / Goldeneye, you know, the 9/10 type of game. I think its probably more to do with the top games today being mostly multiplatform that there are more top games on each console tho, but then again there is alot more money in gaming today and alot more developers than there was back in the 90's and earlier. I do think because of this there has been FAR more top notch games released in the 00's...

I don't know if this is of any merit but have a look at Gamespot's archived reviews of N64 games - http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=games&platform=4&mode=all&sort=score&dlx_type=all&sortdir=asc&official=all&page=0 (I only use Gamespot as an example cause their site is alright to find old(er) reviews)


Em, I'm not sure if that link to them reviews backs up your point about their only being one or two really top notch games out per year. There's loads of highly rated games there. Bare in mind their score rating system has changed so what was once a 7.3 might be higher today. For what it's worth they scored MGS1 an 8.4 or something and MGS4 a 10!

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Saying that it did show that a complex game like System Shock 2 can work on the consoles and with a controller while being commercially viable.

I don't get you. System Shock 2 didn't get released on a console

Retr0gamer

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I don't get you. System Shock 2 didn't get released on a console

I was saying that Fallout 3 shows that a complex game like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex can work on a console without the dumbing down.

I actually find that the games get better as the consoles age. As the cost of development drops you get smaller niche companies making games for the system and some companies taking chances on weird concepts like Katamari. I usually find the cookie cutter no risk games are what proliferate the early console releases.

NotorietyH

I think you're getting some of the more original and innovative games now on services like the PSN and XBLA. Flower immediately springs to mind, Pixeljunk Eden, Braid and a few others. With smaller budgets those companies can take bigger risks. I've enjoyed some PSN and XBLA more than a lot of the big releases.

I think this generation is less about originality and more about using the same old gameplay mechanics and refining them. Also it seems this generation of games either try to perfect the narrative structure of games (Uncharted 2, Alan Wake) or redefine them (Heavy Rain). I can see how someone could lose interest in games, but I think every now and then a game will come out that reinvigorates your love of games. Mass Effect 2 is probably the most recent example for me.

Magill

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I don't know if this is of any merit but have a look at Gamespot's archived reviews of N64 games - http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=games&platform=4&mode=all&sort=score&dlx_type=all&sortdir=asc&official=all&page=0 (I only use Gamespot as an example cause their site is alright to find old(er) reviews)


Em, I'm not sure if that link to them reviews backs up your point about their only being one or two really top notch games out per year. There's loads of highly rated games there. Bare in mind their score rating system has changed so what was once a 7.3 might be higher today. For what it's worth they scored MGS1 an 8.4 or something and MGS4 a 10!

Half of those games are ****ty american sports games, and i wouldn't i call those great:D

And i said 4 or 5 a year !! JEESSSS Learn to read before trying to correct me ! And there are about 20 games on the first page of that, that i would consider really good or great games, over 4 years. Think my numbers are right. Tho different people have different tastes obviously.


But yeah i think we've established that this whole debate is stupid and that there have been great games for every generation of console. My point in all this was that there are great games this generation and this year.

altairscreed

Scráib wrote: »

Ah sure you sparked off a big debate about it, that's something! Maybe we take ourselves to seriously in this forum these days.

OI! Weirdos! STOP GOING OFF GAMES!

I know ye everyones kind of gone off topic now:o, just going to see how it pans out from here

Retr0gamer

Magill wrote: »

Half of those games are ****ty american sports games, and i wouldn't i call those great:D

And i said 4 or 5 a year !! JEESSSS Learn to read before trying to correct me ! And there are about 20 games on the first page of that, that i would consider really good or great games, over 4 years. Think my numbers are right. Tho different people have different tastes obviously.

You're numbers aren't right because you fail to take into account the PS1 games of that generation. There were far more AAA games released on the PS1 than on the N64 and a lot of them still hold up today.

Magill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You're numbers aren't right because you fail to take into account the PS1 games of that generation. There were far more AAA games released on the PS1 than on the N64 and a lot of them still hold up today.

Think you'll find i said per console m8, and they arent that off, if you dont count sports games (Which all got high marks back then because of the whole 3D thing, they diffo arent great games). Im not even going to agrue with you as its pretty clear your biased towards old games.... with the whole.... retrogamer thing going on

But yeah there were indeed more top games on the ps1. But also, i think that the reason there was so many highly rated games on the ps1/n64 generation was because it was the beginning of proper 3D games. Most of these games haven't lasted the test of time.. and dont compare to most of the decent games released today (In terms of story/gameplay and indeed graphic's). This is obviously because of how technology, and how much more they can fit into games now.

Retr0gamer

I'm not actually biased towards old games despite the moniker. I agree that a few PS1 and N64 games haven't stood the test of time but there's many that have and I'm pretty sure a lot of the highly rated games that come out now are going to not stand the test of time either when the graphics look shabby in a few years time and the gameplay doesn't hold up. I'd also argue that it wasn't the beginning of proper 3D but the start of when 3D being good since 3D gaming had been on PC and arcade hardware for much longer and there were other 3D consoles like the Jaguar and 3DO that just didn't have the finesse in 3D that the Saturn and PS1 had after them.

What about the 16-bit era? The SNES, Megadrive and other 16-bit consoles like the Neo Geo represent the pinnacle of 2D gaming and haven't aged at all since they still look amazing. You can't really use the excuse for that generation which had a silly amount of brilliant games.

I also completely disagree with you on old games not matching current games in terms of story, gameplay and in a few cases graphics (there's some amazing 2D games on the Saturn and PS1 that still look amazing to this day). Storywise games really haven't come very far. The writing is still terrible and there's still an over reliance on cutscenes. Sure every so often we get a game with good writing and a well told story but the same can be said of previous generations. It was a rare thing to happen but it did happen just like with games today. There's very few games with stories like Shadow of the Colossus or Mass Effect 2 but previous generations have games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Suikoden 2, Super Metroid or Chrono Trigger with dialogue and storytelling to match the best we see these days. Good gameplay never gets old. Most of those excellent games from previous generations are just as good today to play as anything that has come out recently. You can very well argue that todays best games like Mario Galaxy, Assassins Creed 2, Demon's Souls, etc., can stand up to the games of old and are as good as them but to say they are better is just wrong.

Snowie

i can see what he means.
genrally there arnt that many games to play these days that are any good,

I kikw sand box free romes but I also like the platfoprm style jumpin running having to use my brain. There are very little games of that caliber. I feel.

Take cronicals of ridick I got board.
Theres loads of games being made but a very small number of games with any staying power.

Majority of them are eather to short, or places crap.
I think with consoles as powerfull as they are, game designers are testing the water a lot but I'm playing assissins creed 2 and I can't put it down, I havent enjoyed a game like this since, Uncharted 2.

Mw2 was a complete joke.

Magill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not actually biased towards old games despite the moniker. I agree that a few PS1 and N64 games haven't stood the test of time but there's many that have and I'm pretty sure a lot of the highly rated games that come out now are going to not stand the test of time either when the graphics look shabby in a few years time and the gameplay doesn't hold up. I'd also argue that it wasn't the beginning of proper 3D but the start of when 3D being good since 3D gaming had been on PC and arcade hardware for much longer and there were other 3D consoles like the Jaguar and 3DO that just didn't have the finesse in 3D that the Saturn and PS1 had after them.

What about the 16-bit era? The SNES, Megadrive and other 16-bit consoles like the Neo Geo represent the pinnacle of 2D gaming and haven't aged at all since they still look amazing. You can't really use the excuse for that generation which had a silly amount of brilliant games.

I also completely disagree with you on old games not matching current games in terms of story, gameplay and in a few cases graphics (there's some amazing 2D games on the Saturn and PS1 that still look amazing to this day). Storywise games really haven't come very far. The writing is still terrible and there's still an over reliance on cutscenes. Sure every so often we get a game with good writing and a well told story but the same can be said of previous generations. It was a rare thing to happen but it did happen just like with games today. There's very few games with stories like Shadow of the Colossus or Mass Effect 2 but previous generations have games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Suikoden 2, Super Metroid or Chrono Trigger with dialogue and storytelling to match the best we see these days. Good gameplay never gets old. Most of those excellent games from previous generations are just as good today to play as anything that has come out recently. You can very well argue that todays best games like Mario Galaxy, Assassins Creed 2, Demon's Souls, etc., can stand up to the games of old and are as good as them but to say they are better is just wrong.

True about the 3D gaming, but it really didnt kick off till the n64/ps1, at least on a console front. That was when 2D's era was all but over.

Ofc story telling is alot better now than it was in previous generations.. in general, the developers have alot more tools, and better voice actors, most good games back then were platform and puzzle games.

There are exceptions i know, like i said a million times already. There are some amazing good games from previous generation consoles, that was never part of my agrument, hopefully i've made that clear now. I Just don't agree with some people going all "GAMES THESE DAYS ARE **** AND DONT COMPARE TO OLD GAMES LIKE PACMON! JEZZZZZZ!".

The only points I've been trying to make is that there are still great games being made, there are more games being released now than there ever was, and the quality in general is higher now. A lot of the people that made older games are still making games today, i would think they are getting better at their job instead of getting worse ? wouldn't you agree ?

I personally think that world of warcraft is probably the greatest game ever made (I dont play it anymore tho thankfully as it does destroy lives). The story telling is amazing(If you actually play the game properly and follow the quests). The amount of content is huge and far more than any other game ever made and the gameplay is amazing, far more complex, yet still simple to play and more fluent than any RPG to date. So yeah.... theres at least one game thats BETTER than any game from a previous generation Ofc this is only my opinion.

Retr0gamer

Well I don't agree that the quality of has gone up but I don't think it's gone down either. I believe the amount of great games being released has stayed the same in each generation. I kind of feel that innovation is a bit stagnant on the main consoles at the moment but hope to see this change when the cost of development drops meaning more risks can be taken, the same thing happened in the PS2/GC/Xbox era. As for old school game developers getting better, I've actually found they find it hard to keep up with many of them getting out of the game since they don't like the massive teams that big games need these days. For the guys that have kept up I feel their games have been a consistently good quality. Miyamoto, Shinji Mikami, Cliffy B etc. are still churning out excellent games but you can't look back at the games they made before and say that they aren't as good as the stuff that came out after it. Can you honestly say that super mario world isn' as good as the games being released now?

As for storytelling the tools available to developers have certainly increased but the writing is still just as poor as in previous generations. It's because game developers aren't story writers, only a small handful are, but many of them see themselves as storywriters. Uncharted 2 was a damn fine and well written script with excellent pacing. Do other studios strive for the same thing by hiring professional scriptwriters and hollywood guys to give guidence since it's their field of expertise? No, they think that hiring Nathan North to be in everything will magically elevate their script to Uncharted 2 levels. This is a medium where Halo, the cluster**** of MGS4 and Final Fantasy 7 are held up as the shining examples of storytelling when each of these games has some really awful and generic storytelling when you think about it. Every so often you'll get a Mass Effect 2 or like in previous generations a panzer dragoon orta, System Shock 2 or Suikoden 2 that's well written with a great storyline but it's still extremely rare. Game developers need to set out an outline for their story and work with professionals in the story writing era because frankly it hasn't progressed since the 16-bit era.

Butch Cassidy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What about the 16-bit era? The SNES, Megadrive and other 16-bit consoles like the Neo Geo represent the pinnacle of 2D gaming and haven't aged at all since they still look amazing. You can't really use the excuse for that generation which had a silly amount of brilliant games.

Is this graphic quality argument not a bit slanted cause in the last 10years a lot of games have tied for photo-realism and perhaps older games from previous generations weren't so keen to put you in control of a "real" person per se. Instead, you controlled a hedgehog or whatever:p

Good gameplay never gets old.

Gameplay to some people today seems to mean spending hours and hours running around shooting at people in team deathmatches in Modern Warfare 2. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. It's hard to prove an opinion as truth.

Retr0gamer

I don't think Magill is the one to be playing MW2 all day and calling it the pinnacle of gaming, having a good conversation here!

As for the graphics today looking photorealistic, I used to say that about a lot of games before, Mortal Kombat, Ecco the Dolphin, Metal Gear Solid, Half-Life, all games that look awful now. It's usually the abstract games like Mario, Rez or Okami that will always look amazing. Mark my words in a few years times this generations 'photo realistic' visuals are going to look terrible. In terms of characters we are deep in the uncanny valley and they will look bad and the plastic, everything dosed in vaseline look of games these days that use too many shaders is going to be ridiculed.

Butch Cassidy

Yeah that's what I mean. The abstract games. Just cause a game isn't "grounded in reality" and all that sh*t doesn't mean the graphics don't/can't look bloody amazing.

How are them GTA III graphics holding up today?

Magill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't think Magill is the one to be playing MW2 all day and calling it the pinnacle of gaming, having a good conversation here!

As for the graphics today looking photorealistic, I used to say that about a lot of games before, Mortal Kombat, Ecco the Dolphin, Metal Gear Solid, Half-Life, all games that look awful now. It's usually the abstract games like Mario, Rez or Okami that will always look amazing. Mark my words in a few years times this generations 'photo realistic' visuals are going to look terrible. In terms of characters we are deep in the uncanny valley and they will look bad and the plastic, everything dosed in vaseline look of games these days that use too many shaders is going to be ridiculed.

^ Your right about that, i do enjoy abit of mw2 ( Shame on me ) with some mates tho. You are right about how even todays games will look pretty ****ty in a few years. I actually played through HL and MGS (Got it on the PSN thing). Both do look very dated, but i did really enjoy them again. I guess its kind of how cartoons/film work, even the really old cartoons ones look just as good as new ones today whereas in film, you can tell that a film is old just by looking at it, even if its only 15-20 year old. I guess its that 2D cartoon kind of game that graphically will always look really cool.