GBB Rifles: FAQs and help

MerryDespot

Ok - so here's the deal - there's been a bit of a protracted 'off topic' on the Airsoft News thread about GBBRs and perhaps it's a better idea to start up a thread over here where people can post questions, observations or info regarding their GBBR set-ups.

I know that a few of the lads here on Boards are starting to switch over to GBBRs, and I reckon that with the summer coming (and more people starting to develop an interest in these things), hopefully we'll have enough people on here to be able to deal with any queries ye have.

Mods: not sure if this is in the right place, as there'll probably be a bit of a technical aspect to it, but I reckon that people will have general questions about GBBRs before they have more technical issues, so best to keep the thread in the one place.

So - anyone need any advice, feel free to post.

T.w.a.T.

Hi lads, I dont have a GBB rifle yet, but soon enough /maybe next week/ will receive mine I'm not very familiar with them, I know few basic stuff, but eventually will learn everything.

So, my Q is: Can the inner barrel be changed with after market one? Tanio Koba for exsample?

Dread-Lock

Yeah there are a good few aftermarket barrels out now for GBBR's, they're different from AEG barrels though so make sure you buy the right one. And I believe Tanio Koba make GBBR barrels.

MerryDespot

Depends on the GBBR as far as I know - I'm pretty sure that some of the newer GBBRs can take aeg barrels - in particular, I know there's a GBB version of the LR300 coming out made by evolution airsoft that takes aeg barrels - see here:

WE, Western Arms and AGM (which is essentially a clone of the western arms system - but with full metal body instead of the abs used on WA) are the more common systems though, and to the best of my knowledge you'll need gbbr specific inner barrels for these.

Dread-Lock

Oh and you can also get aftermarket hopup chambers for GBBR's that take AEG barrels.

SwarfegaHead

Being fairly oblivious with regards to the technical side of things, would I have to put much work into one of the Ra-Tech custom WE GBBRs to make it skirmshable, or are they pretty good as is?


Also, being someone who hasn't skirmished yet, what sites offer more GBB friendly style games, with regards to mag/ammo restictions? While no doubt fun now and again, the idea of high-cap riddling doesn't sound overly appealing to me as a regular thing!

Captain Chaos

The WE GBBrs are generally good to go out of the box as is, just field strip and oil them up and away you go. The RA tech kits are good for fine tuning if you want to use CO2 all year round while keeping under 1J.

A WE GBBr already upgraded with an RA kit is as good as you can get really.

It's only really the AGM GBBrs that need a bit of work before bring to a game, even at that it's not too much. Well it is but you can add parts bit by bit as cash allows.

SwarfegaHead

The more I hear the more I want. I'm only really looking to use c02, I just preffer it to gas from my own limited experience.


The fact that GBBRs seem far less daunting to strip down than AEGs also appeals to me, I'd like to own something that I understand how it works. That said I can see me falling prey to the horror pictures of people with snapped lower recievers on the WE rifles, knowing my luck!

Captain Chaos

SwarfegaHead wrote: »

The fact that GBBRs seem far less daunting to strip down than AEGs also appeals to me, I'd like to own something that I understand how it works.

That's what I love about the GBBrs, they are really basic and easy to understand, they are as close to the real thing in operation as you can get especially the WA/AGM systems but WE are now following that with their so called "open bolt" system as people prefare for function realism while giving up a little cool down performance. I still hate going near the internals of an AEG of even just opening one up and I'm an electrician.:o

MerryDespot

What Captain Chaos said.

AGM = bit more work to get started.
Benefits - until now they've been the best/cheap open bolt alternative to WE (but now the new WE give the open bolt option too).
Downsides - need a bit of tlc to keep in good order and skirmish ready. Mags are heavy (bit pain in the arse when you're carrying a full loadout). Hop-up needs to be replaced out of the box to be of any use as the stock one is rubbish.

WE = pretty much perfect out of the box.
Benefits - all you need is the npas/ratech kit fitted (to regulate gas flow to make sure it's under 1j) and you're good to go. Mags are much lighter than stock agm mags - meaning that a full loadout won't break your back in the chest rig.
Downside - you need to keep them well oiled - the WE system uses a brass tube in the chamber that feeds the gas and loads the bb into the hop chamber - the npas/ratech kit travels inside this tube and it needs to be keep lubricated (even more so than the agm/wa type bolt) otherwise there's a risk of damage. Not a big deal - just be good to it and strip it/oil it often and well. See Masada's post below about oiling the WE - just been corrected

There are other makes out there - Inokatsu, G&P (which is an improved version of the WA/AGM system as I understand it), Marushin, but I haven't taken any of these down, so I'll stick to what I (sort of) know...

Captain Chaos

MerryDespot wrote: »

There are other makes out there - Inokatsu, G&P (which is an improved version of the WA/AGM system as I understand it), Marushin, but I haven't taken any of these down, so I'll stick to what I (sort of) know...

VFC are very close to releasing their GBBr series or have just released them. They are using the WA gas system with a few tweeks it seems. Their internals look very nice from the pics I have seen so far. The metal bolt face and a metal recoil buffer really stood out out for me.

They could be good WE alternatives, price and performance wise. Their SCAR gen 4 has been a while coming but their M4s seem ready to go.

Masada

From my own personal preference, I like the WA system more than the WE, although i have both.

If the WA had readily available co2 mags at a reasonable cost it'd be a clear winner.

The WE has a rep for being ready to go out of the box, but their not quite that simple, there's a few tweaks needed and they have more common problems than the WA.

One thing to be aware of, dont over oil your WE GBB or in fact, don't oil it at all. Instead use a small amount of silicone grease as its a lot less likely to be forced through the barrel. Once the rubber seal at the front of the barrel gets oily the rifle starts to give all sorts of problems from erratic FPS to double feeding etc.

The WA also needs a few tweaks but its easier to work on and theres a lot more parts available for it.

MerryDespot

That actually explains something that had been giving me grief with the scar a while back Richie - cheers!
On a totally untechnical basis I agree on the WA/AGM system - there's just something more satisfying with the 'open' bolt when you rack it. The mags issue is a right pain in the ass though - even with the mags 'choked' to 40 rounds instead of 50 - that means carrying 6-8 mags, all of which weigh too much on their own, so 6-8 times too much.

Masada

I like that though, coz they weigh near enough the same as fully loaded magazines, one for the anoraks. lol

Drachnien

I'll admit they GBBR's have me tempted, in particular i'm looking at this one Linky!

Anyone got any opinions on it? and also any one got advice on mags that won't break the bank but are still good.

MerryDespot

I've the 'standard' version of that scar (but with npas) and it's great. Nice recoil kick and easy take down and to maintain. See what Masada posted above about lubrication - otherwise it's straightforward. Mags can be got for reasonable enough if bought in numbers - I'd say talk to Shiva on the Eirsoft thread in the retailer section. WE mags have given me far less grief than the AGM ones, which I've always had leak issues with requiring some tlc before they were usable.

hightower1

MerryDespot wrote: »

I've the 'standard' version of that scar (but with npas) and it's great. Nice recoil kick and easy take down and to maintain. See what Masada posted above about lubrication - otherwise it's straightforward. Mags can be got for reasonable enough if bought in numbers - I'd say talk to Shiva on the Eirsoft thread in the retailer section. WE mags have given me far less grief than the AGM ones, which I've always had leak issues with requiring some tlc before they were usable.

Have the standard version without npas installed, great unit, solidly built, as you said has excellent kick, an especially great noise form the bolt cycle and taking it down is brilliantly simple. Put it this way.... was my first we gbb rifle..... its now my 3rd one .

As for the RA tech work, I have the ra tech custome WE gbb m4 and the work is great, npas installed amongst other things. They even oiled it for me lol.

T.w.a.T.

Maybe sound stupid, but still can't understand wich is better. The standard Ra-Tech system or the new Ra-Tech Open Bolt System? Witch is better?
I did watch few videos in the net, but still can't understand, why the Open bolt would be better. Is it something different or just a fasion thing?

Captain Chaos

T.w.a.T. wrote: »

Maybe sound stupid, but still can't understand wich is better. The standard Ra-Tech system or the new Ra-Tech Open Bolt System? Witch is better?
I did watch few videos in the net, but still can't understand, why the Open bolt would be better. Is it something different or just a fasion thing?

The open bolt system is to do with more realism and it's easier to work on imo that the WE current nozzle system. Thats why I prefare the WA blowback system, that and the recoil. We have gone open bolt with their new M14 (thank god) and are now offering that gas system as an option in all existing designs.

Performance wise we'll have to see but I still think the old WE gas system has the edge but I'd always go with the open bolt system given the choice.

Drachnien

thanks for the opinions guys, I still need to do some research on it but I think i may end up picking that up, the fact it can run co2 out of the box is a big selling point to me

Dread-Lock

Wheres the best (cheapest) place to pick up a NPAS kit for an AGM (WA) rifle?

StevieGriff

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Wheres the best (cheapest) place to pick up a NPAS kit for an AGM (WA) rifle?

RA-Tech or a China copy?

Dread-Lock

StevieGriff wrote: »

RA-Tech or a China copy?

I had no idea there was Chinese copy's out there...Are they any decent? And is there much of a price difference?

StevieGriff

Dread-Lock wrote: »

I had no idea there was Chinese copy's out there...Are they any decent? And is there much of a price difference?

Yeh there's a few of them bouching around the place..Quality? No idea.
http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=2&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1272337526218002260
http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=2&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1273173765937011592

Dread-Lock

StevieGriff wrote: »

Yeh there's a few of them bouching around the place..Quality? No idea.
http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=2&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1272337526218002260
http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=2&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1273173765937011592

Alright thanks, very interested in the second link you posted. I'll wait and see if anyone can tell me what the quality is like.

StevieGriff

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Alright thanks, very interested in the second link you posted. I'll wait and see if anyone can tell me what the quality is like.

No bother. Just found the NPAS on its own too. http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=5&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1262204768906001937.
For $13 I doubt you can go wrong even its bad..:D

Dread-Lock

StevieGriff wrote: »

No bother. Just found the NPAS on its own too. http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T0002/templateProductDetails.do?ParentId=1252184149812006735&currentPage=5&editCurrentLanguage=1213907847692&webId=1213907847691&productId=1262204768906001937.
For $13 I doubt you can go wrong even its bad..:D

Yeah for $13 you can't really go wrong. But seeing as I'm in the market for a new bolt carrier among other things, I might as well get it all in one package.

Anyway found the price of RA-Tech's NPAS kit (on their website no less :rolleyes:) and yeah fcuk that. It's basically the same price as the rifle I'm putting it into ($260).

So if anyone can tell me anything about this NPAS kit I would really appreciate it.

deepimpact

Might aswell lob this question here and give this thread a bump while I'm at it.

I'm going to order a RA-Tech WE M4 CQB-R from Eirsoft tomorrow and I want to put a sling swivel onto it for, well, a sling.

Do I need a WE-compatible/real steel part or do aeg ones fit?

Dread-Lock

AEG sling plates will not fit the WA system, so I assume they won't fit the WE system.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/t-s-c-troy-type-metal-body-sling-mount-for-we-m4-gbb-series.html

deepimpact

I was thinking that alright. I have many of the bloody things in the spares bin for aegs, so I thought I'd ask before spending unnecessarily.

Thanks for confirming though Dread.

Masada

typical Dboys ones wont be there are many aeg ones out there that will, they aren't held in place by the buffer tube like on say a dboys, but are instead held in place by the screw on the buffer tube, like the VFC 416 for instance.

either way though, their readily available in both fitments so it wont be a problem.

Captain Chaos

I have a similar query myself. I'm looking for a replacement standard M4 front sight, gas tube and standard 7'' RIS handguard. I'm guessing the AEG spec parts won't fit the WA/AGM GBBR specs?

Thing is I can't find these parts listed as WA GBBR compatible anywhere. So I'm left looking in the standard AEG parts sections on retailer sites.

Also looking for a SCAR flashhider with a clockwise thread, all I can find are CCW threaded versions. I want one to fit an AAC SCAR QD silencer but again most places all have the CCW threaded versions.

Why the feck does the WE SCAR have a CW thread and there is nothing made to fit it?:mad:

Masada

All of the M4 related parts ya need should fit no probs man.

on the flash hider, i havent seen one myself,

.22 Lover

Are there any manufactures planning to relise any GBBR bulpups beacause i know its possible with the current systems there using so why not?

Captain Chaos

.22 Lover wrote: »

Are there any manufactures planning to relise any GBBR bulpups beacause i know its possible with the current systems there using so why not?

There is an AUG GBBR, it was posted in the news section a while back. http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Inokatsu-GBBR-s-t155511.html&pid=18074446&mode=threaded
i don't think it will ever be released though. It's something I'd love though, any kind of bullpup GBBR.

TSI were ment to release a kit of their TAR21 AEG but the thing is muck in AEG form as it is.

I'm expecting a G36 GBBR next because of the system WE have going in the SCAR. The mags will be the hurdle with materials and capacity.

hightower1

I dunno why no one has manufactured a gb with an internal gas tank.
The likes of the scar has a lot of space in the stock or foregrip for one.

Even more so with bullpup styles, A tar 21 would have a lot of space for one where the gearbox sits in the aeg version.

MerryDespot

.22 Lover wrote: »

Are there any manufactures planning to relise any GBBR bulpups beacause i know its possible with the current systems there using so why not?

I'd say it's a question of the AUG not being as popular as, say, an AR type. Same way that there are AK GBBRs, but nowhere near as many as there are M4/M16 or SCAR variants now. I was a bit surprised to see the M14 coming out - well, pleasantly surprised!

I'd love to see a GBBR AUG - or even better yet a GBBR SIG 550 or 552. Even a decent GBB G36 would be legend - I've seen a youtube vid of a GBB G36 (based, I think, on M4 parts fitted into a G36 shell with loads of work done to make the conversion work).

shg101

Drachnien wrote: »

I'll admit they GBBR's have me tempted, in particular i'm looking at this one Linky!

Anyone got any opinions on it? and also any one got advice on mags that won't break the bank but are still good.

So, is this GBB SCAR for €335 suitable for a first timer who wants to skirmish, but wants something a bit more realistic than your average AEG?

Dread-Lock

shg101 wrote: »

So, is this GBB SCAR for €335 suitable for a first timer who wants to skirmish, but wants something a bit more realistic than your average AEG?

Probably not, probably not....

They require a good bit more maintenance then your average AEG.
The WE magazines only hold 30 rounds so your going to need a few of them and they're pretty damn expensive. And they are also greatly effected by temperature. They will be fairly inefficient gas wise with cold weather.

So all in all I wouldn't recommend this gun for a beginner.
If your looking for something slightly more realistic then your average AEG, maybe look at getting an EBB AEG. You won't get much (if any) recoil off it but it'll look slightly more realistic and I believe the sound of the motor is drowned out a bit.

Irishmaster

Thought id also add a few questions. Im a complete noob at GBB rifles so any help would be appreciated. Im thinking of getting the WE Scar from eirsoft but im wondering which is better the co2 or the green gas mags. Thinking of getting one just for plinking. Heard the gas is inefficient etc. Also how many mags(bbs) can you get in one fill of co2 and one fill of gas? Also there is a thread on this already but i read theres a difference between the m4 and scar mags so buying them wont be too easy as most sites sell them as m4/scar mags. What should you do when you order them?

Stonewolf

So what's reliability with GBBRs like? I've had a few AEGs and found them pretty unreliable, I can take a gearbox apart and understand basicly how it works but as far as I'm concerned it's all voodoo and the gearbox is just for show. GBBRs look much simpler and prone to problems that are a lot easier to understand/fix so is that actually the case?

Also, I noticed when I was on the chrono station at Ops that there was a lot of back and forth to get the NPAS setting right, how much of a problem do regular users find this?

Lemming

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Yeah there are a good few aftermarket barrels out now for GBBR's, they're different from AEG barrels though so make sure you buy the right one. And I believe Tanio Koba make GBBR barrels.

MerryDespot wrote: »

Depends on the GBBR as far as I know - I'm pretty sure that some of the newer GBBRs can take aeg barrels

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Oh and you can also get aftermarket hopup chambers for GBBR's that take AEG barrels.

PGC (or is it PCG?) - i.e. Prowin - have an aftermarket GBBR hop-up chamber that can take AEG barrels. You'll find it on redwolf and it's about $45

Also; for those wishing for WA system CO2 magazines; I direct you to take a look at G&P's website. You'll find some shiney pictures of CO2 dual-cartridge mags due for release.

Captain Chaos

Irishmaster wrote: »

Thought id also add a few questions. Im a complete noob at GBB rifles so any help would be appreciated. Im thinking of getting the WE Scar from eirsoft but im wondering which is better the co2 or the green gas mags. Thinking of getting one just for plinking. Heard the gas is inefficient etc. Also how many mags(bbs) can you get in one fill of co2 and one fill of gas? Also there is a thread on this already but i read theres a difference between the m4 and scar mags so buying them wont be too easy as most sites sell them as m4/scar mags. What should you do when you order them?

I got one of these 2 weeks ago and it's class. I got the RA Tech custom version in CO2 but I got a green mag with it aswell. It's me second GBBR after the AGM M4.

It's perfect for plinking and is more than capable of a skirmish with the custom internals and CO2 mags. The mags are all real caps, ie 30bbs. A full charge of green gas is enough to empty a mag and maybe another 10bbs. The CO2, I'm finding I can get just over 60bbs. Given the choice between green and CO2, I would always go CO2. The only reason I got one green mags was for plinking and I run out of CO2 as I have a load of green gas around.

As for the mags, I ordered two extra with the gun and on the box of the mags it reads "For SCAR use", the M4 mags do work with the SCAR but are are less effective in gas usage from what I have read. I got my SCAR in tan so it makes it easier buying extra mags as all the tan ones are for the SCAR even though WE have tan M4 GBBRs out there now.

bullets

I'm planning (sometime) on getting something GBRR,
thats not an M4 and would like the option of
CO2 and 134a. Was gonna buy the Scar but am holding
off to see what the near future brings. The snippet about the AUG was encouraging, as was the M14, and and an AK would be nice.

The mags that hold C02 for the Scars/M4's are they
Single Ampule or double ampule?

If the mags hold 30 and will shoot 60 BB's and its
nearly a Euro an ampule thats works out pretty expensive
to skirmish with. (May Encourage people into Milsim rather than spray and pray type of play though)

~B

Lemming

bullets wrote: »

The snippet about the AUG was encouraging, as was the M14, and and an AK would be nice.

GHK have announced recently that they're to start churning out their AK line of GBBRs again. An alternative at least.

The mags that hold C02 for the Scars/M4's are they
Single Ampule or double ampule?

Dunno about an WE system mags, but G&P are due to release a double-ampule CO2 M4 magazine for the WA system.

r0n0c

kind of a stupid question methinks...
are there any CO2 m4 mags out there that will fit the WA gbb m4 or are they 2 totally different systems?

Lemming

r0n0c wrote: »

kind of a stupid question methinks...
are there any CO2 m4 mags out there that will fit the WA gbb m4 or are they 2 totally different systems?

At the moment, the only commercially available CO2 M4 mags (disclaimer: that I'm aware of) are for the WE system. As I said a few posts back, G&P do have a double-ampule CO2 WA system mag on the way, but when it's for release ... fecked if I know.


Edit: G&P CO2 mag

And to clarify; WE & WA do not mix.

Lemming

And the aforementioned PGC hop chamber to fit AEG barrels to a GBBR;

click

r0n0c

[QUOTE=WE & WA do not mix.[/QUOTE]
this I have learned to my cost...:o

sliabh

Idle curiosity question, all GGB mags seem to have a 30 round capacity. Is that just custom and practice, or is there a technical limitation that's keeping them to that level?

hightower1

sliabh wrote: »

Idle curiosity question, all GGB mags seem to have a 30 round capacity. Is that just custom and practice, or is there a technical limitation that's keeping them to that level?

2 things mainly....

Your limited by the amount of space left in the mags after the gas canisters are in along with outlet valve....

Most mags can hold enough gas for about 30 shots as is so even if you found space somewhere you'd be outta gas to shoot them.

I suppose like with pistols nbb are better on gas than blow back so I wont be suprised to see gas rifles made with nbb for better economy and higher cap mags.