The Avengers (2012) *spoilers from post 1181*

ricero

Goin to see this tommorow. How does the captain do in this film ? Is he any good ?

johnny_ultimate

ricero wrote: »

Goin to see this tommorow. How does the captain do in this film ? Is he any good ?

They have significantly dumbed him down. A few decent moments in fights, but mostly he's one of the weakest and ill-defined members of this particular crack team.

Memnoch

I too came out a little underwhelmed and was left wondering whether there's something wrong with me or am I just getting old.

Don't get me wrong. It's entertaining. Very entertaining. There are certainly a good few 'wow' moments(but not nearly enough). The action is quite spectacular but the whole thing had a 'been there, seen that,' kind of feel to it.

There were some genuine laugh out loud moments. Some real nice touches and nods that were cool. But it felt like the first 60-80 minutes were just a straight road you had to get through to get to the final 40 minutes which is where the real fun was. That seems to be the way with a lot of big budget action films these days. And it's no longer satisfying for me as a cinema goer. I want the entire ride to be gripping and for the finally to really send it into the stratosphere.

Re Black Widow and Hi-tech Legolas:

Found them a bit weak. Scarlett shooting her little pistol at the baddies was especially pathetic. Also, Capt America looked like a clown. I can't stop thinking of Sheldon from BBT in his costume.

Also, it was very light on character/theme/meaning/subtext. Iron man was strong that way, the others since, Capt America, Thor, even Iron man II didn't quite measure up. And this falls into the same trap.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while it's a great popcorn movie, but it's no Batman Begins/ Dark Knight/ Inception. Hell, I don't even think it's Avatar, though the last part is debatable. Even the X-men prequel - 'X-men, First class' felt more 'substantive.'

It's a bit of a shame, because I think it had all the ingredients to be really great but it was missing real heart. The familiarity of some of the BIG moments also took away from the epicness of it for me.

Then again, maybe I'm just old and jaded. I think for a younger audience especially, it will feel awesome.

Despite all of the above, I'll probably see it one or two more times just for the final action scene, which had some genuinely big moments. However,

I still felt a little let down by the Independence Day style, nuke the mothership and they all fall down, finish. I think it was dumb that the army never got involved in the final battle. I think it would have been a good way to involve them. After Iron man nukes the mother ship, fighter jets swoop in to help with clean-up, polish off the last of the baddies. And didn't we already see the giant robotic reptile/python in Transformers?

In summary. Fun, but not great. Not truly memorable and a lot of missed potential.

krudler

ricero wrote: »

Goin to see this tommorow. How does the captain do in this film ? Is he any good ?

he gets some good moments and some cringey lines, his costume still sucks though, the one in his own movie was so much better

Turtwig

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

ricero wrote: »

Goin to see this tommorow. How does the captain do in this film ? Is he any good ?

They have significantly dumbed him down. A few decent moments in fights, but mostly he's one of the weakest and ill-defined members of this particular crack team.

Disagree. In the comic books that's all he ever was the Morale and spiritual leadership guy. He never really was that super physical. I thought they nailed him in both movies. Moreso this one.

ricero

krudler wrote: »

ricero wrote: »

Goin to see this tommorow. How does the captain do in this film ? Is he any good ?

he gets some good moments and some cringey lines, his costume still sucks though, the one in his own movie was so much better

I always thought that cap was the leader of the avengers or is ironman now due to his popularity ? Any sign of red skull ?

krudler

Memnoch wrote: »

I too came out a little underwhelmed and was left wondering whether there's something wrong with me or am I just getting old.

Don't get me wrong. It's entertaining. Very entertaining. There are certainly a good few 'wow' moments(but not nearly enough). The action is quite spectacular but the whole thing had a 'been there, seen that,' kind of feel to it.

There were some genuine laugh out loud moments. Some real nice touches and nods that were cool. But it felt like the first 60-80 minutes were just a straight road you had to get through to get to the final 40 minutes which is where the real fun was. That seems to be the way with a lot of big budget action films these days. And it's no longer satisfying for me as a cinema goer. I want the entire ride to be gripping and for the finally to really send it into the stratosphere.

Re Black Widow and Hi-tech Legolas:

Found them a bit weak. Scarlett shooting her little pistol at the baddies was especially pathetic. Also, Capt America looked like a clown. I can't stop thinking of Sheldon from BBT in his costume.

Also, it was very light on character/theme/meaning/subtext. Iron man was strong that way, the others since, Capt America, Thor, even Iron man II didn't quite measure up. And this falls into the same trap.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while it's a great popcorn movie, but it's no Batman Begins/ Dark Knight/ Inception. Hell, I don't even think it's Avatar, though the last part is debatable. Even the X-men prequel - 'X-men, First class' felt more 'substantive.'

It's a bit of a shame, because I think it had all the ingredients to be really great but it was missing real heart. The familiarity of some of the BIG moments also took away from the epicness of it for me.

Then again, maybe I'm just old and jaded. I think for a younger audience especially, it will feel awesome.

Despite all of the above, I'll probably see it one or two more times just for the final action scene, which had some genuinely big moments. However,

I still felt a little let down by the Independence Day style, nuke the mothership and they all fall down, finish. I think it was dumb that the army never got involved in the final battle. I think it would have been a good way to involve them. After Iron man nukes the mother ship, fighter jets swoop in to help with clean-up, polish off the last of the baddies. And didn't we already see the giant robotic reptile/python in Transformers?

In summary. Fun, but not great. Not truly memorable and a lot of missed potential.

But that first half is littered with great moments, if they just jumped straight into the team being together and non stop action people would be saying there's no plot, at least they actually devoted time to the characters and gave them a reason to be there. If it was just 2hrs of stuff exploding it wouldnt have been as much fun, it was the banter and buildup that made it for me. The final sequence is a bit Transformers 3 but its so much fun who cares.

Hulk picking up Loki and smashing him into the floor repeatedly, and th subsequent shot of him lying in a crater with a "WTF just happened" look on his face got a bigger crowd reaction than any movie I've seen in a few years

Mr. K

I really enjoyed this, no real complaints! A funny, action-packed comic book movie to start off the summer.

Thought

Black Widow, Hulk and Loki

were the standout characters.

Black Widow was much better developed than in IM2, the hints at her backstory are intriguing. Maybe Marvel will give her a solo movie?

I wonder if they'll do the

Infinity Gauntlet

storyline for a sequel? I imagine this movie was a make-or-break one for Marvel's movies, but the word of mouth is positive, so the superhero summer films are likely to continue!

shadowcomplex wrote: »

How would

Thanos

compare to Thor and the Hulk, power wise?

He's more powerful than both. He's kind of a threat to the entire Marvel Universe, rather than any one hero's villain.

johnny_ultimate

Jernal wrote: »

Disagree. In the comic books that's all he ever was the Morale and spiritual leadership guy. He never really was that super physical. I thought they nailed him in both movies. Moreso this one.

Didn't mean 'weakest' in the physical sense, but more the character sense. I think him adapting to the modern world was something that could have been played up much more, especially given the trauma he experienced at the end of his dedicated film. But here that's relegated to a pointless montage and a few throwaway lines of dialogue. A shame, really. Didn't really think it fit when he ultimately took

up the baton as tactical leader: seemed a bit too intimately familiar with contemporary New York geography for someone who was just unfrozen, anyway

Memnoch

krudler wrote: »

But that first half is littered with great moments, if they just jumped straight into the team being together and non stop action people would be saying there's no plot, at least they actually devoted time to the characters and gave them a reason to be there. If it was just 2hrs of stuff exploding it wouldnt have been as much fun, it was the banter and buildup that made it for me. The final sequence is a bit Transformers 3 but its so much fun who cares.

Hulk picking up Loki and smashing him into the floor repeatedly, and th subsequent shot of him lying in a crater with a "WTF just happened" look on his face got a bigger crowd reaction than any movie I've seen in a few years

I don't disagree with you.

It's not that I have problem with a film having a first act and second act. But to me, both of these felt very formulaic. Okay, not as bad as Transformers 3 and some of the other action films of late, but not nearly at the level of Batman Begins/Dark Knight. I'm not saying the action and explosions have to be big all the way through, no film can do that. But I wanted more HEART. More character, more feeling. I wanted to be drawn in totally, to be immersed in the world, to forget completely that I was watching a movie. And it didn't do it for me.

That's what sets great films that you will remember for years and years apart from ones that are merely good. Yes there was some good banter and some genuinely funny moments throughout, but there were lots of bits in between that were very by the numbers and just taking us from point A to point B.

Again, I agree, there were some wonderful moments and they save the film, for without them it could have ended up at Transformers 3 level. The final action is certainly fun, but it could also have been a lot more original.

At the end of the day, the film didn't really touch me or leave me with this powerful awestruck memory that I'll be thinking about it for days afterwards. Unlike other films. I don't come out of the cinema, shaking my head and going, 'wow, that blew my mind.'

A good example is Warrior. Okay, it was a drama, not pure action. But I keep going back to the Batman films. Or the Lord of the Rings trilogy if you want to go a bit further back. That's the standard I want.

krudler

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Didn't mean 'weakest' in the physical sense, but more the character sense. I think him adapting to the modern world was something that could have been played up much more, especially given the trauma he experienced at the end of his dedicated film. But here that's relegated to a pointless montage and a few throwaway lines of dialogue. A shame, really. Didn't really think it fit when he ultimately took

up the baton as tactical leader: seemed a bit too intimately familiar with contemporary New York geography for someone who was just unfrozen, anyway

I did laugh at the bit when

someone mentions flying monkeys and he gets so excited as he exclaims "I get that reference!" as Thor didn't

titan18

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Thought it was merely OK to be honest, verging on the disappointing. Biggest problem is a sluggishly paced and overlong first act that is neither funny, exciting or interesting enough. Actually wearisome waiting for things to inevitably kick off: kept waiting for

Thor to show up in some exciting fashion, but ultimately he just sort of dropped in from the sky in an anti-climax. Kinda made his character cliffhanger at the end of his film pointless. Obviously the budget didn't quite stretch to Oscar winners!

Second act is a big improvement, as it gives Whedon room to work with his strengths: interesting, funny and confrontational people in an enclosed environment. The banter, the interactions and the dynamics between all the characters are strong.

Loki's scene with Black Widow was particularly strong IMO, as were most of the interactions in Banner's lab

. An unexpected

Galaga

joke around the middle is also the film's most deserved and nerdy chuckle.

Third act kind of combines the strengths and weaknesses of the first two. On one hand, it's fairly characterless, especially

the alien enemy who basically just provoke a New York blowing up action scene

, the ilk of which we've seen several hundreds times before. Yet at least with Whedon's clear directorial eye the action remains coherent (a compliment that seems weird, but is by no means a given these days) and the characters do get their chance to shine

(even if Hawkeye and Black Widow are a bit unavoidably useless compared to the rest of the hyper powered friends)

. Hulk gets the best punchlines.

Literally

.

There were times when The Avengers threatened to become more, but ultimately it just felt too long for too little reward. Not to say it isn't entertaining: it most certainly is, and with anyone other than Whedon at the core it could have been much worse. But as is it's merely decent. It actually seems like a shame to more or less abandon the strong, interesting character motivations seen in the previous films. Obviously there isn't a hell of a lot of time for character work with so many personalities seeking your attention, but this at its worst feels like a mere stop gap between the 'proper' continuation of these characters' stories (the Captain and Thor especially).

So yeah, solidly entertaining, but must say my experiences were far removed from the excitement I've seen elsewhere. Some of the audience seemed to be loving it - too much so, I'd say, laughing their asses off at jokes that weren't all that funny - so what do I know?

Pretty much the same that I felt on the film itself. It was good, it was entertaining but it's not great, and not the the best superhero film as I've seen people say elsewhere.

Also, as there are sequels already announced, the end battle was anti-climatic imo. None of them were going to die bar potentially Hawkeye so the action felt weak.

Memnoch

P.S. If you want an example of a film by Joss Whedon (director of this movie) with a much smaller budget, but lots of great action and a lot more heart as well as being quite memorable, I strongly recommend Serenity. Not that it was perfect. And at the time I had watched it first, I hadn't ever heard of or seen the TV series that went with it.

Turtwig

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Jernal wrote: »

Disagree. In the comic books that's all he ever was the Morale and spiritual leadership guy. He never really was that super physical. I thought they nailed him in both movies. Moreso this one.

Didn't mean 'weakest' in the physical sense, but more the character sense. I think him adapting to the modern world was something that could have been played up much more, especially given the trauma he experienced at the end of his dedicated film. But here that's relegated to a pointless montage and a few throwaway lines of dialogue. A shame, really. Didn't really think it fit when he ultimately took

up the baton as tactical leader: seemed a bit too intimately familiar with contemporary New York geography for someone who was just unfrozen, anyway

Actually agree with you here especially on the geography point. There was one poignant scene tho involving the cap where he has a reunion with somebody dear to him that whedon ultimately had to cut and strongly lamented doing so. Perhaps that may have filled in his back story and modern character more?

krudler

To be fair Whedon had to fit a lot of characters and their stories into this, and they all get their screen time, its like the worlds most expensive fan movie, which is basically is. If you want expanded plot and character arcs then watch the individual lead up movies. There was no way Iron Man,Thor, Cap, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,and Loki were going to get extended character arcs and plots in a two hour movie, it was to get some of Marvels most famous names all on screen together, and it does just exactly that, with some great, genuinely funny moments, decent action (I prefered the smaller action scenes to the big climactic one tbh) and some excellent effects, its a perfect Friday at the movie summer flick.

johnny_ultimate

Memnoch wrote: »

P.S. If you want an example of a film by Joss Whedon (director of this movie) with a much smaller budget, but lots of great action and a lot more heart as well as being quite memorable, I strongly recommend Serenity. Not that it was perfect. And at the time I had watched it first, I hadn't ever heard of or seen the TV series that went with it.

And he also co-wrote the 'CURRENTLY IN A THEATER NEAR YOU!' Cabin in the Woods, which is several degrees more thrilling, cleverer and funnier than The Avengers.

If you can only see one Joss Whedon film this year, let it be that. Although he does have a version of Much Ado About Nothing coming out shortly, which we all know is going to reek of awesome.

Memnoch

krudler wrote: »

To be fair Whedon had to fit a lot of characters and their stories into this, and they all get their screen time, its like the worlds most expensive fan movie, which is basically is. If you want expanded plot and character arcs then watch the individual lead up movies. There was no way Iron Man,Thor, Cap, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,and Loki were going to get extended character arcs and plots in a two hour movie, it was to get some of Marvels most famous names all on screen together, and it does just exactly that, with some great, genuinely funny moments, decent action (I prefered the smaller action scenes to the big climactic one tbh) and some excellent effects, its a perfect Friday at the movie summer flick.

I agree.

It's a great friday at the movie summer/popcorn film. But there are plenty of films that have been that AND been truly memorable/great/ had something to say.

So I don't buy the excuses/cop outs.

The individual films were worse baring Iron man I, which was quite endearing, genuine and most importantly, FRESH.

Is worth the price of the ticket? Yes, I think so. Is it something that will be considered a classic in two or three years and something that you'll hold up as for other films to aspire to (even other films in the same genre)? The answer for me is a resounding no.

Maybe I want too much. A film that is truly great on all levels. Not just hitting a few sweet notes here and there. There are films like that out there and I hope we'll see one this year.

Memnoch

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

And he also co-wrote the 'CURRENTLY IN A THEATER NEAR YOU!' Cabin in the Woods, which is several degrees more thrilling, cleverer and funnier than The Avengers.

If you can only see one Joss Whedon film this year, let it be that. Although he does have a version of Much Ado About Nothing coming out shortly, which we all know is going to reek of awesome.

Heard good things about Cabin in the woods. Unfortunately I can't abide anything scary. Yes, I'm a wimp.

Turtwig

I have one question.

Did Coulson really die? Could have sworn at the end he appeared in the background of the command shot of shield walking up to fury. I seriously hope he didn't because I rather liked the guy. He is the type to play deaf, dead or dumb to motivate our heroes

Memnoch

Jernal wrote: »

I have one question.

Did Coulson really die? Could have sworn at the end he appeared in the background of the command shot of shield walking up to fury. I seriously hope he didn't because I rather liked the guy. He is the type to play deaf, dead or dumb to motivate our heroes

Agree.

I have a feeling that he survived also.

Turtwig

Memnoch wrote: »

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

And he also co-wrote the 'CURRENTLY IN A THEATER NEAR YOU!' Cabin in the Woods, which is several degrees more thrilling, cleverer and funnier than The Avengers.

If you can only see one Joss Whedon film this year, let it be that. Although he does have a version of Much Ado About Nothing coming out shortly, which we all know is going to reek of awesome.

Heard good things about Cabin in the woods. Unfortunately I can't abide anything scary. Yes, I'm a wimp.

Ditto the amount of movies I've avoided watching fully due to my squeamishness is well a little embarrassing. It's my one weakness that the bad guys will never guess muhaha!

krudler

Memnoch wrote: »

Heard good things about Cabin in the woods. Unfortunately I can't abide anything scary. Yes, I'm a wimp.

its not scary in the slightest, its a comedy first and foremost.

johnny_ultimate

Just an aside. I have no problem with popcorn movies and blockbusters, but it takes a really special one IMO to single out as something remarkable. Serenity was one, Star Trek was (in my controversial opinion) another. The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus stand a chance this year, perhaps the Hobbit. But I really don't think The Avengers stands out from the crowd enough to be recommended with anything other than caution. I particularly take umbrage with the

generic metallic alien threat

: a bizarre trend in recent Hollywood, and one which frankly needs to go away fast. The banter is often witty, but the characters all too often feel like pre-determined lines and costumes rather than well defined individuals. Some come off better than others in that regard - Tony Stark remains a strangely likeable asshole - but all in all it's as if they're all taking a brief break from character development and their own quite interesting narratives.

So yes: I fully agree The Avengers is entertaining on its own terms. As light entertainment that's pretty much entirely devoid of depth, it hits many admirable boxes. However, having experienced The Raid (and to a slightly lesser degree Cabin in the Woods) with an ecstatic audience recently, I have remembered just how much fun and enjoyment one get out of fun that is inherently dumb. The Avengers is decent, but in a year where it has many promising competitors seeking screentime and audiences, it offers too much of too little to achieve anything other than an evening's worth of light entertainment. Of course, that's an achievement beyond a worryingly large amount of blockbusters today, but given the plethora of talent (in front of and behind the camera) and resources available here, there's a disappointing sense that there's untapped potential here bursting to get out.

IMO, of course

Memnoch

krudler wrote: »

its not scary in the slightest, its a comedy first and foremost.

My mom let me watch this horror film with her when I was FAR too young for it. Had nightmares for weeks afterwards. I think I've watched ONE horror film since then.

When I'm in the cinema and they put on a trailer for a horror movie I always close my eyes. The one time I didn't I had trouble going to sleep that night. It's like it's hard wired into me or something. Pretty sad.

Anyway, I'm gonna trust you and go check this out. :P

Memnoch

Is it just me or have entertainment.ie sold their soul for advertising?

Does this film really deserve 4.5/5 stars? Used to be that anytime I went to see a film that got 4 stars there I was in for one of the best films of the year. Five stars was something that would be a great and truly memorable movie. Though this trend seems to be reserved for comic book films like Watchmen, which was also overrated. I suspect the reviewer is probably just a die hard comic book fan and this seems to colour his view slightly.

brianregan09

You're right it should have got 5 :P

johnny_ultimate

The anime nerd in me really wanted the SEELE SHIELD council screens to read 'Sound Only'.

Zero-Cool

This is brilliant, what facebook would look like if the avengers all had profiles. Slightly spoilery

http://lolsnaps.com/news/22291/0/

Saw it last night, loved it. I have never seen a cinema erupt like that in certain scenes. Brought the other half who loved it also. It just came together perfectly .

Oh , dont go and see this in 3D

Doctor DooM

Well that WOULD have been one of the best action films I had ever seen IF they didn't have the word Assemble at the start of it.

This flagrant use of the word completely overrode the genuine humour, good pacing, and snappy script.

Shame on you Marvel, shame.